Pastor: marriage equality 'worst disaster to strike the state of Iowa'

Celebrating IOWA's Family Values.

This goes well here I think:

nytimes.com/2009/04/09/opinion/09thrasher.html

By STEVEN W. THRASHER
Published: April 8, 2009

IF it weren't for Iowa, my family may never have existed, and this gay, biracial New Yorker might never have been born.

 In 1958, when my mother, who was white, and father, who was black, wanted to get married in Nebraska, it was illegal for them to wed. So they decided to go next door to Iowa, a state that was progressive enough to allow interracial marriage. My mom's brother tried to have the Nebraska state police bar her from leaving the state so she couldn't marry my dad, which was only the latest legal indignity she had endured. She had been arrested on my parents' first date, accused of prostitution. (The conventional thought of the time being: Why else would a white woman be seen with a black man?)

On their wedding day, somehow, my parents made it out of Nebraska without getting arrested again, and were wed in Council Bluffs, Iowa, on March 1, 1958. This was five years before Nebraska would strike down its laws against interracial marriage, and almost a decade before the Supreme Court would outlaw miscegenation laws throughout the country in Loving v. Virginia.

When the good state of Iowa conferred the dignity of civic recognition on my parents' relationship - a relationship some members of their own families thought was deviant and immoral, that the civil authorities of Nebraska had tried to destroy, and that even some of my mom's college-educated friends believed would produce children striped like zebras - our family began. And by the time my father died, their interracial marriage was seen just as a marriage, and an admirable 45-year one at that.

That I almost cried last week upon reading that the Iowa Supreme Court overturned the state law banning same-sex marriage will therefore come as no surprise. I'm still struck by one thought: over the years, I've met so many gay émigrés who felt it was unsafe to be gay in so-called flyover country and fled for the East and West coasts. But as a gay man, I can't marry in "liberal" New York, where I'm a resident, or in "liberal" California, where I was born, and very soon I will have that right in "conservative" Iowa.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 14:55:18 PM CDT

the gospel as written by that "prophet"

Gospel message is confused. Marriage is established by God to be a living picture of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the husband representing Christ and the wife representing his church. "Homosexual marriage" presents a distorted picture, a false Gospel, promoting a blasphemous message.

The gospel has NOTHING to do with marriage. NOTHING in the bible has to do with marriage, marriage ceremonies, OR with the rights that come with marriage. These fascists are crazy as fuck.  

"I am the sledgehammer to your 10,000 mirrors." everyone needs to be open and out of their closets.

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by: TSinGarnNC16 @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 14:55:33 PM CDT

He is confusing Gospel with Epistle

maybe he needs a sabbatical to go back to school and relearn some of this stuff.

Wives, understand and support your husbands in ways that show your support for Christ. The husband provides leadership to his wife the way Christ does to his church, not by domineering but by cherishing. So just as the church submits to Christ as he exercises such leadership, wives should likewise submit to their husbands.

25-28Husbands, go all out in your love for your wives, exactly as Christ did for the church-a love marked by giving, not getting. Christ's love makes the church whole. His words evoke her beauty. Everything he does and says is designed to bring the best out of her, dressing her in dazzling white silk, radiant with holiness. And that is how husbands ought to love their wives. They're really doing themselves a favor-since they're already "one" in marriage.

 - Ephesians 5:24-27 [Message]

He also missed that, just because some guy who never met Jesus in person uses a metaphor of first century marriage to illustrate the church's relationship to Jesus, that doesn't doesn't mean that marriage has to reflect said divine relationship.

If we're going to the actual Gospels, we can read the parable of the prodigal where a son takes his inheritance, moves out, spends it all, comes back, and Dad throws him a party. That doesn't mean that every younger son has to demand his inheritance, blow it on sex and partying, and come home to a party so that God's grace be preserved.

Did this guy even read the Bible?

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Claim to fame: Posted first PHB diary to be demoted

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by: cindik @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 15:35:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It is a HUGE disaster.

And I mean a HUGE disaster.  With Same-sex marriage becoming legal in 4 states, the people will see the sky isn't going to fall, and the anti-gay hate industry will collapse.  

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 14:58:06 PM CDT

Bapist Press links aren't cooperation at the moment

so I followed the Pastor Schumacher link.  His profile on hi blog lists his occupation as "hedonist" and his interests as:
    * Hedonist
   * Location: Cedar Rapids : Iowa : United States

Interests

   * The Living God
   * my wife
   * my kids
   * the church
   * books
   * killing & eating pheasants.

What's with the pheasant killing?

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 15:22:19 PM CDT

It was a typo....

he meant to say "peasants" rather than pheasants.

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by: exfundie @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 15:29:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

My kids aren't that stupid,

  It must have something to do with religious teaching,

Soon, our sons and daughters are confused about what it means to be male and female, as "homosexual marriage" gains both legal status and visibility in neighborhoods and the classroom

 I hope this imbecile means his children and not mine. But then again I am sure he teaches abstinence only.  Or is he referring to the 'Our sons and daughters' as those who go to his church?

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 15:29:14 PM CDT

"Our sons and daughters?"

Sounds like maybe he's a polygamist.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 17:29:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Redefine Christian

Legalized "homosexual marriage," on the other hand, does far more pervasive and irrecoverable damage. Civilization itself is eroded as marriage, the central building block of culture and society, is redefined.

Um, technically it is not rededfining marriage. Because there have been same-sex marriages in the past. Nero married married a freedman named Doryphorus, and Elagabalus and Zoticus also married, however history aside Marriage was "redefined" when interracial couples married, and when women were allowed to file rape charges against their husbands, not to mention becoming considered people not property being sold... So did that erode society too?

What did Jesus say abut Marriage?

34Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage,

Luke 20:34-35
How bout reading your bible

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Luke 22: 36-39

watashi no yomeiri wa doko desu ka

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by: belfrieboi @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 15:33:07 PM CDT

Must have been reading The Peter's writings

He really should try a history book.  I remember the 1993 floods were so bad the weather service described the water volume as the equivalent of a sixth great lake.

Unless I'm missing something.  It's possible he could say, "the same-sex marriages were as high as the top of that doorway in 2009!  We had to replace all the drywall and refloor the entire house.  Everything was ruined."  But I doubt it.

Or possibly the dustbowl years.  "The same-sex marriages were so bad that year, you couldn't see your hand in front of your face.  Entire farms blew away.  People lost everything they had."

Give me a break......

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by: Phil @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 15:51:40 PM CDT

A can of worms

First I want to remove objections and speculations about me before I say what is on my mind.
I have always been progressive in my views and in 1970 married a black man, we lived in NC where it was not very popular at the time.
A few years ago I had to decide if I would or not attend the wedding of a gay friend. It was a tough decision as I care for my friend but do not support gay marriage. I ended up on the side of friendship and I went because I thought that even a non binding ceremony was giving them some form of public commitment and I am in favor of commitment.

Well what was a good relationship before the "wedding" quickly deteriorated and they separated as if no ceremony had taken place. That bothers me. It gave me the feeling that the whole thing was just a parody.

Do I want gay marriages to be legally binding? No, I would rather we did away with all civil marriages and leave this "tradition" to the religion institutions.

The government should not tell us what to do about that. Then each person's religious and moral fiber will decide who is married and who is not.

We should replace the legality of such functions as birth registrations and death benefits that are currently stigmatized by "marriage". All children should be taken care of in the best possible way and the status of the parents should not even be an issue for government programs. All people whom one select to be at a bed side should the one that is allowed and the government should have no say in that. Work benefits would have to be reevaluated to insure people can choose who is covered under the insurance they pay for, not the government.

Okay I opened a can of worms now I am letting them  go.

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by: mreile @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 16:04:53 PM CDT

But there's no way to "unring the bell", mreile

What you're suggesting is this:

1. Take all current marriages on the books and relabel them as "civil".

2. Make those who want what they had before go through another ceremony.

3. Allow same gender couples to obtain civil marriage licenses.

Never gonna fly. Not in a million years. My folks have been married for 45 years this year, in a church, even though they are not formally religious. Their parents were married for 60 and 52 years respectively.

Their generation will NOT go for this concept for a SECOND.

So what's the alternative? Three choices:

1. Deny same gender marriages. Period.

2. Have the current unsatisfactory mess we have now of different rules in different states, sometimes within the same state!

3. Allow couples to marry equally, regardless of gender.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 16:28:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ramble ramble ramble

Not interested in hearing about your religious bigotry, frankly.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 16:33:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

So?

I have always been progressive in my views and in 1970 married a black man

In the mid 80s, I had sex with a black man. That doesn't give me any liberal street cred.

A few years ago I had to decide if I would or not attend the wedding of a gay friend. It was a tough decision as I care for my friend

Just not enough that you would have supported anything meaningful, like a real wedding, with legal obligations and benefits. And not enough that even the idea of going to a mock wedding, with absolutely no meaning beyond what they carried in their hearts, didn't give you the vapors. So, really, not so much a friend as an acquaintance you decided to tolerate, in spite of your vast moral superiority, what with his sinful lifestyle, and all.

Well what was a good relationship before the "wedding" quickly deteriorated and they separated as if no ceremony had taken place. That bothers me.

I can certainly understand that. I mean, divorce never happens in straight marriages. It must have thrown off your whole worldview, like rain falling up from the ground, and baby chicks crawling back into their eggs. You poor, poor dear, let me get you a cup of cocoa, and maybe a string of pearls to clutch.

The government should not tell us what to do about that. Then each person's religious and moral fiber will decide who is married and who is not.

And bigots can be bigots without fear of repercussion. Bigots like you, for example.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing

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by: QueerInSoCal @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 17:02:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Wow

You people have a truly incredible talent for missing the point.

Fetch my pearls, I need to clutch them!

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by: RainbowPhoenix @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 17:23:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm guessing

you're referring to that weak ending paragraph? Typical libertarian crap: "get government out of private lives and let us all live as we choose!" Carry that argument out a couple of steps, and you'll see where it logically leads.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing

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by: QueerInSoCal @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 17:36:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Know what bothers ME?

Straight people with a 53% divorce rate and a 57% marital infidelity rate coming into queer space and telling us what is and isn't a valid marriage.

Have a nice day, and go fuck yourself.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 17:36:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

and conveniently choosing names

that are anagrams of names of queer users here. Just switch a letter or two around, maybe no one will notice. There's a user who posts here sometimes named mirele. Though I couldn't tell you a thing about that poster's views, I notice this one is named mreile.

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by: one jewish dyke @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 17:56:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A few points, Ms Morality

Your friend's relationship deteriorated.
Did you, as a friend, offer support, comfort, productive suggestions?

The separated as if no ceremony had taken place
Might I say two words: Britany Spears

And what could they have done to have kept you from feeling it was a parody? Have an un-committment ceremony?

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 18:29:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"First I want to remove objections and speculations about me before I say what is on my mind."

Not to worry, hon, we've got your number.

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by: Pollyanna @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 18:55:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Just some thoughts

Well what was a good relationship before the "wedding" quickly deteriorated and they separated as if no ceremony had taken place

Most likely because there was no legal civil contract (like in a straight marriage) if we followed through with what you propose then ALL marriages would end in this manner. As this seems to bother you, you are contradicting your beliefs of the importance of marriage. And, BTW, putting the word wedding in quotes exposes your true feelings, and that is that our relationships are not real or significant, and this is emphasised by the fact that you actually had to debate whether or not to attend the service of a person who you claim to be a friend, not a very close friend fromt he indications. If you had a friend that was of different religion that passed away would you have to debat whether or not to attend their funeral as it would involve their religous beliefs which you don't support?

It gave me the feeling that the whole thing was just a parody.

Like "The Bachelor" television show? Or those who marry for a green card alone. A parody is an imitation for comical effect. I'm pretty sure that if they loved each other it was not done for comical effect.

Do I want gay marriages to be legally binding? No, I would rather we did away with all civil marriages and leave this "tradition" to the religion institutions. The government should not tell us what to do about that. Then each person's religious and moral fiber will decide who is married and who is not.

There are several religious institutions that consider same-sex coulpes to be equal opposite-sex couples. Are you willing to acccept their idea of tradition as valid too? Or does one get to pick an choose which beliefs they uphold? Would you be highly offended when one group decided to quit recognizing opposite-sex couples and started referring to them as "Roommates"? By that qualification I could consider my Uncle "Not Married" since I have moral issues with the fact that woman he recently wed was the one he was caught having an affair with on the job.

We should replace the legality of such functions as birth registrations and death benefits that are currently stigmatized by "marriage".

So instead of simply allowing LGBT people the same recognition in the eyes of the law, you propose a massive over hall of the 1300 plus rights that a license grants, not to mention the social implicatinos it carries. All because there are those who don't wish to accept the relationship between me an my partner?

All people whom one select to be at a bed side should the one that is allowed and the government should have no say in that.

Here, I'm assuming you are talking about hospital visitation rights? Well, throwing out the legal aspect of marriage may cause problems here because what if my partner is in a coma when he is brought into the hospital, and when I find out and go to see him, how is he supposed to let them know he wants me to be there? If one is unconcious how are they going to tell the hospital who has legal right to make medical decisions on their behalf? And what if the doctors religious view and moral fiber say that the couple is not a couple?

Work benefits would have to be reevaluated to insure people can choose who is covered under the insurance they pay for, not the government.

Before I lost my job in January, the company I worked for offered domestic partner benefits, I could add my partner to my medical insurance, but it became a taxable benefit if I did. Since then I've been with out insurance, because my partner's company only extends coverage to legal spouses. So to correct one little discriminatory law you are proposing a massive overhaul of all insurance plans, plus related tax laws, and for what? So that people will be free to deny the fact that we have a loving, valid relationship? And again does the decision and moral fiber issue affect the insurance companies too? Are they abe to pick at will who they recognize as related and therefore coverage? Or are you willing to force them to cover whoever the person wishes regardless of who or how many people that may be?

Yes, you may have opened a can of worms, but don't worry the light of honesty and truth will soon dry them out and they can be swept away with the rest of the refuse.

watashi no yomeiri wa doko desu ka

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by: belfrieboi @ Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 11:26:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

New Queer Clothing Co. Giving Away Free Stuff

http://www.whatsupwiththat.biz

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by: 25_Mil @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 16:08:02 PM CDT

Spam, spam, lobster thermador

and spam!

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 16:17:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

The Pythons understood everything.  Everything!

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 17:36:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oooo, lobster thermidore

Now THAT sounds tasty. I'll have to go find some gruyere cheese.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 18:03:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Where do I click to buy this whacko an ad?

He can do SO much more for our cause than we can do for ourselves.

Our kids are going to be confused by same-sex couples marrying?

But if our kids will lose the capacity to distinguish male and female, how will they know which marriages are same-sex? Or is that his point, they won't know which yard to burn a cross in?

Has anyone besides Ellen Goodman noticed that all the terrible, moral-fabric-rending results of the ERA (same-sex marriage, restroom integration and women in combat) have now occurred and we STILL don't have the ERA?

So they've fallen back to fighting each of those battles independently, yet have nothing to say that my mom and her consciousness-raising group weren't already making fun of in 1977.

Wake me when it's over.

But wait, there's more!

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by: PhoenixRising @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 16:09:53 PM CDT

My son is thoroughly heterosexual

and serving in the US Army....
very LGBT friendly, but he certainly knows the diference between male and female...

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Sat Apr 11, 2009 at 08:33:15 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm confused

"Soon, our sons and daughters are confused about what it means to be male and female"
===========================

But, then wouldn't gay people start marrying opposite sex partners by mistake?

The logical extension of his statements is that he needs to support marriage equality in order to end it.

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by: Kathleen @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 16:42:11 PM CDT

Logic and Commonsense confuses these people.

  I bet they are still trying to figure out how to bake ice cubes in the oven.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 17:30:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

New beatitude:

Blessed are they that defend traditional marriage, for they shall inherit the dirt.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 17:37:56 PM CDT

I bit.

I sent the guy an e-maul asking him to please explain how my marriage of 16 years is threatened by two men or two women getting married, and asking him to explain if the fact that I'm pagan renders my marriage somehow invalid.

Let's see if he manages to give me an explanation that doesn't refer to the Great Book of Cosmic Contradictions.

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by: acidqueen @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 at 20:38:26 PM CDT

Good luck

Don't hold your breath waiting for the reply. People like him tend to be much to busy forcasting doom and gloom to be bothered with trifles, like logical discourse.

watashi no yomeiri wa doko desu ka

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by: belfrieboi @ Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 10:55:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh, I know.

But I figured I would give it a shot anyway.

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by: acidqueen @ Sat Apr 11, 2009 at 07:50:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

ARGH!

What's this guy ON?  He's panicked about the "destruction of traditional marriage" - as if the lack of legal SSM were the only thing preventing hordes of straights from going gay!

News flash, Pastor: the only people who are going to be interested in obtaining a same-sex marriage are people who are already same-sex-attracted.  Pack up your Slippery Slope Slip 'n' Slide and put it back in the garage, because you don't get to use it this summer.

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by: CubPaws2008 @ Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 21:16:38 PM CDT