The Advocate interviews mom of 11-year-old who committed suicide over gay taunts

This story is so heartbreaking

and touches me so personally.

There's a "third rail" with this story too.

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by: kevinchi @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 09:34:34 AM CDT

What is wrong with these people?

A LOT  It is unbelievable that there are legislators and congress critters who stand in the way of legislation that its soul purpose is to prevent teenage suicide.  

The real interesting part of this story, is the bully was a girl.  I would like to know what these 'Grow up and Be a Man' suggest he should do?  Beat the shit out of her?  Take a Louisville Slugger to her?  

They don't have the answer.  If the boy hit the girl, I am sure it would go against the values that were being instilled into him.  

These legislators, congress critters, school board members, etc. need to get their heads out of their collective asses and start putting an end to bullying in learning institutions.  These people have this boy's blood on their hands along with the blood of 1,000 more just like him.

As for the religious ass wipes that are going to keep their little Jesus following Joey home on the Day of Silence are just plain pathetic.  As I have posted before, 1 out of every 5 teenage suicides are LGBT teens.  And what really is sick, using their logic, it is worth sacrificing 4 teenagers so 1 LGBT teen doesn't make it to the age of 20.  And they claim to be for the right to life?  Completely Insane. (and that is putting it nicely.)  

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 10:02:09 AM CDT

And we don't know

whether this is a "LGBT teen" or not (he was 11 years old). It's the fact that the taunts are consistently homophobic in nature that is increasingly disturbing.

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by: kevinchi @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 10:04:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bear in mind this happened in Massachusetts,

land of the first, unshaken marriage victory. You know they still don't have a gender-identity non-discrimination law?

I'm all for marriage equality and the focus on it. But I hope that we don't fool ourselves that a marriage victory makes things "fall into place".

Bullying, gay poverty, transgender hate, hate crimes...all these things are not necessarilly affected by marriage laws. I imagine some effect, but that is variable, and certainly a state-level marriage law does not change how people treat each other on the local levels.

There obviously needs to be state-level anti-bullying laws (does Mass have one?) but even then there must be enforcement and community action at the local places where these terrible environments emerge.

And adults who feel that victims need to "toughen up" should be excluded from PTAs, teaching jobs, staff jobs, board of education councils, etc in any and every way we have the legal and constitutional power to exlude them. Because THESE adults are enabling the bullies.  

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by: h3986 @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 10:12:42 AM CDT

Western Mass, though

Which, trust me, is not nearly as progressive as the Boston area. I grew up in a suburb of Springfield, and still put up with people who tell me they can't stand fags, but I'm okay, "because you can't tell." Nice.  

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by: CPT_Doom @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 10:18:14 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Springfield

Indeed.  Nor is it as progressive as closer Amherst and Northampton.  It's a down-at-its-heels industrial town that Lansing, MI reminds me of.  

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 10:36:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

This sounds right

It's a class issue also.

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by: kevinchi @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 10:40:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

School Morons

How can they encourage conversation by having them sit together? These people are morons.

The school needed to counsel and support the boy and crack down on the bully/bullies.  That poor guy must have felt powerless at school and then this was magnified exponentially by being forced to sit next to his tormentor.  I can picture myself that age and that's what I would have felt.  Hell, I did feel that in junior high.  

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 10:32:33 AM CDT

That aspect of it hit WAY too close to home for us

The similarities to a situation our son had are striking:
Our son, who is ten, was also the victim of a bully at the beginning of this school year; our son also was called "gay" and "faggot" along with other things.  He had mentioned it to us (his parents and sister), but said that he wanted to handle it himself. Then at the end of his parent/teacher conference, the teacher asked if he had any other concerns, and he said that yeah, actually he did--he had been complaining to the recess teachers for weeks about this other kid and NOTHING had been done. His teacher offered the exact same "solution" as was imposed on Carl--lunch for a week one-on-on with the bully. He said that was not the way he wanted to handle it, but the teacher simply refused to consider other options for addressing the situation. Fortunately for our son, due to the context of it having been brought up in a conference, my wife and I were there to back him up and adamantly decline the "solution" offered. Like Carl, who faced a girl bully, the kid bullying my son was one he could not hit back--the boy was a year younger, but very big for his age. Eventually, the situation got resolved by my son's much bigger friends, who flat out told the bully to back off or else. Obviously, our situation was no where near as serious as the one poor Carl was facing, but I can't help but think "There but for the grace of God..."


susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 13:02:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Firebomb Time

I'm sick of the PC talk about this.

Listen to what Ms. Walker is saying:

"It's not just a gay issue," Walker said. "It's bigger. He was 11 years old, and he wasn't aware of his sexuality. These homophobic people attach derogatory terms to a child who's 11 years old, who goes to church, school, and the library, and he becomes confused.

When I was a kid and very much like this young man, occasionally the taunts would be homophobic. But most of the time the bullies that I did (and didn't) go to school with would say that I was "acting white."

Go back and look at some of Pam's posts on the "acting white" phenomenon in some black communities.

That's not to say that white male kids don't get bullied in the same way. I am saying that with an African-American male child this bullying takes on a very culturally specific form.

Think about it. Why is Ms. Walker reaching out to The Advocate of all places? There are plenty of African American oriented websites that you think she should be reaching out to. I did not see this story on at least 2 of those websites when I looked last night, maybe I didn't know where to find it.

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by: kevinchi @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 10:33:10 AM CDT

I agree

Hello all this is my first time posting on phb even though I have been an avid reader for some time now.  But this story struck a chord with me (not that other stories here haven't) When I see the pic of Carl and read the story all I can think about is my own 10 yr old little brother and how because he doesn't behave or is interested in what most little black boys or what mainstream culture thinks he should be interested in that he could be an easy target for bullying whether it be homophobic or b/c he doesn't "act black."  I had to try not cry when reading this story as I am at work.  But this is horrible and anyone who opposses any anti-bullying measure that would help prevent bullying based on percieved or actual sexual orientation or gender identity obviously has no real interest in protecting children.  And as much as I see my little brother in Carl I also see myself in junior high.  
And thank you kevinchi for bringing up the "acting white" phenomenon.  I work at an HBCU and I was recently told by a co-worker that I am "so white" and she cited the way I dress(we are at work excuse me for dressing professional), the way I speak (articulatly) , and how I carry myself as her rationale.

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by: Neequa @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 11:24:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I went to an HBCU right out of high school

and the bullying continued. It got so bad in school that I went to administration and was told by one administrator to excuse them because, "they're black, you know how we are."

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by: kevinchi @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 12:39:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I really admire Ms. Walker...

...for going public in such a big way.  I would guess it takes tremendous strength to be able to do that so soon after Carl's death.

I expect she's reaching out to anyone who will help her and/or who is interested in publicizing the story.  Which is not to say that the AA community and AA newspapers are not inclined to help or be interested--just that many in the LGBT community already have a heightened level of awareness about bullying as a political issue.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 12:12:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, the AA community

has no interest in this issue. Too much dirty laundry to be aired.

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by: kevinchi @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 12:32:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I wasn't going to say it, but...

Where the #$% is BET on this? Essence? Jet? Hell, Oprah's magazine?

The Advocate shouldn't have to carry the ball on this tragic story. Because there is a backstory about the meaning of behaviors signifying 'acting white'.

To be honest I'm not feeling the depth of knowledge from the gay media about that context and had hoped that the AA media would cover it.

But wait, there's more!

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by: PhoenixRising @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 20:08:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

When I had first heard about this story

I was heartbroken that this could happen to a child and now, when I read that it happened in Massashusetts I'm beyond horrified.

I was especially frighted that this took place in Springfield.  If any of you follow Scott Lively, he now resides in Springfield Mass.  Additionally, because of his anti-gay rhetoric, he has become very popular in the Eastern European countries AND the Springfield area has been getting a huge influx of Eastern Europeans.  Some of these kids were even bussed into Boston to advocate against Marriage Equality.  

Groups like MassResistance and Massachusetts Family Institute are against anti-bullying programs because they claim it promotes homosexuality.  We do not even know if this child was GLBT but the homophobic bullying was too much for him to endure.

I still can't believe it.  This is awful.

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by: BB @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 10:34:02 AM CDT

When I was in the 5th Grade

A classmate hung himself in his bedroom closet.

Our teachers told us it was an accident. But, everyone knew it was suicide.

The boy was constantly bullied. Boys would spit on him and called him a sissy (kids that age didn't use the term "fag" back then). The daily routine of bullying involved a group of boys who would knock his books out of his arms as he approached the bus stop.

A particular group of boys would think of some cruel joke to pull on him every day. It was horrible to witness.

I recall that other kids often spoke up for him (I regret I was not one of them). Most of the time, it was a group of older girls who would tell the boys to leave him alone.

Shortly before he died, the boy's mother began driving him to school and picking him up.

When he died, it was quite a shock to all of the kids. The boys who had been picking on him became very quiet at the bus stop. Looking back, it is obvious that they were all very depressed. I can only imagine the guilt that they felt.

This brings up another aspect of the damage that bullying can do.

If we allow children to bully someone until they commit suicide, the children who did the bullying could be damaged for life. They may never recover from the guilt and shame. I know we may not want to view children who bully as "victims" or anything similar to that, but they are just children. Children have to taught that bullying is unhealthy behavior -- that could end up damaging them as well.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 11:29:20 AM CDT

"Our teachers told us it was an accident."

The final act of injustice and denial.  Disgusting.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 12:15:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

In 9th Grade

I had a classmate "hang himself in a dress".

That was ALL the information we received, and that was ALL we said about it; students and teachers.

I thought we already learned how SILENCE just leads to MORE deaths.    

Decades MORE of Psychological Abuse? - OR - Stonewall.  Nationwide.  NOW!

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by: John Bisceglia @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 12:20:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why is the media lieing?

I'm so angry because the media is intentionally omitting key information. CNN just ran an extended piece but failed to mention how the Republican groups are demanding the right to bully and are fighting any type of anti-bullying legislation. The idiotic cable news shows are going out of their way to protect the anti-gay hate groups.

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by: Ralph4159 @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 12:28:04 PM CDT

Black Voices

has this story in a blog spot with almost 300 comments. A few of the comments are, yes, extremely homophobic and a few comments accuse gay rights groups of being opportunitists with this story (which is to be expected).

Other than those few examples, the comments there sound so similar to the ones on the gay blogs.

Here's one by someone named gina:

I was in shock when I saw the headline and opened to it to look at the story. It caught my attention because my son is experiencing the same thing at school and it has escalated to the point of his grades dropping, staying in his room all the time, not wanting to go to school, complaining of headaches stomach aches in order to stay home or leave class. He say's kids are calling him white, oreo, gay and all kinds of other things I can't mention in an e-mail. Girls swearing at him and getting into confrontations, kids punching or hitting him without provocation. He's an athelete play's all sports and is a good student. He has never been in trouble, he is a Christian and goes to church every Sunday. I try to get it across to him he's a young black male that has it together and represents what they want to be. Some kids may be jealous or envious so they want him to feel bad about himself. I try to teach him not to let that happen because that gives them power. Speak-up and tell someone at school as well as talk with us because if they are doing it to him there are most likely other kids at the school experiencing the same thing, at the hands of the same people. After reading this I think maybe I need to take it a step further and involve the school until I get results. My heart and prayers go out to the family. It really doesn't matter the age of the child, no child should have to experience what happened to this young boy.

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by: kevinchi @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 15:15:36 PM CDT

Whoops, I should have read the whole thread

Glad to see the coverage is there, hate that anyone would suggest that this child's death is being used for political purposes.


But wait, there's more!

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by: PhoenixRising @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 20:12:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well, but I had to look for that

I am still not seeing it in the major African American outlets that you mention.

Personally, I don't mind that this is in the Advocate. If things need to be revealed that would cause some lower black communities shame, then let it. It has been acceptable behavior for far too long.

How many times have I seen kids like this survive only to endure more bullying and to go through further depression. Then in order to conform with the peer group they thug all out. OR

If the kid does, indeed, wind up being gay, he probably stays in the church. But even there he will probably have to endure constant anti-gay attacks and even anti-gay slurs from the pulpit. And so goes the cycle.

I was lucky in the sense that my mother does not like the church at all, so I never got hit with that side of it.

And I am not saying trying to compare suffering with white young men that go theough bullying like this, I am sure it is just as bad for them. But the kind of bullying that a smart young black man like Carl goes through is culturally specific, it is different, not better or worse. And it can be deadly.  

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by: kevinchi @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 20:43:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I was bullied pretty badly in middle and early high school

and was to cowardly to tell anyone in my family what was going on.  I feel so bad for his family and for him.  I can only hope he is in a better place.  But for the grace of God go I.

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by: dsc999 @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 16:41:55 PM CDT

Close to home.

I've seen so many things about Carl's suicide since the very day it occurred, thanks to the wonders of the internet. Nothing like it should ever happen again, but it will, and I guarantee it has again in the days since Carl died.

I don't know the first thing about Carl, but I know a lot about surviving the suicide of a loved one whose death could be attributed to anti-LGBT harassment. That Carl's death is firing people's enthusiasm about the DoS et al is admirable; Ian's had the same effect. It isn't admirable that the Advocate saw fit to print the details of Carl's suicide. It isn't admirable that Carl, and others like him, have been trotted out as poster children rather than remembered and honored for the beautiful, messy, vibrant people they were.

I might be overreacting and nitpicking with the above. My heart goes out to those left in the aftermath, and if Carl can put a face to the consequences of harassment for people who had never considered it before, that's all to the good. It's just that oversimplifying does no favors; there's never just one element to a human being, or for that matter to a suicide.

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by: psimon @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 18:20:01 PM CDT

Don't let Scott become the next Carl ....

As some have read in my Diary I have a link to an article I have written about the abuse of a 12 year old boy at the hands of 1.000's YouTube users.

To call what is happening this young boy anything less than an assualt is like calling World War II a back alley fight.

Please read the article, call and make contacts and do what ever you can to help end this outrageous and inhumane treatment of another human being.

I don't beg anyone for anything, but in this case I am.

If you are not familiar with what is happening at YouTube, just imagine if he was your child.

Please help to do something.

I don't want to read about Scott in the news as the newest victim of suicide because of bullying.

It's not a gay, straight or religious issue.

It's an issue of human decency.

Thank you,

Lyndon Evans

http://lgbtrainbowlinksfocus.b...

Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. - Edward R Murrow

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by: Lyndon @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 19:52:04 PM CDT

Let's get real

This is a heartbreaking story and like so many others I identify my own miserable junior high years in it.  I was too naive and socially immature to understand my own sexuality or the monstrous ridicule to which I was subjected.  I can empathize with this child and have heard so many similar stories.  Ending school bullying needs to be a major national crusade, but unfortunately there are those who will consider it part of the "gay agenda".  If Love, mercy and justice for all makes "Christians" mad, what does that say for the Fundies?  How many Carl Joseph Walker-Hoovers, how many Matthew Shepards.....?  Talk about a sick society!!  The sickness lies in the bigot heart.

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by: Passionforprog @ Wed Apr 15, 2009 at 22:29:28 PM CDT