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The Christian Civic League of Maine's Mike Hein calls Pam's House Blend:
"a leading source of radical homosexual propaganda, anti-Christian bigotry, and radical transgender advocacy."

He is "praying that Pam Spaulding will "turn away from her wicked and sinful promotion of homosexual behavior." (CCLM's web site, 10/15/07)


Ex-gay "Christian" activist James Hartline on Pam:
"I have been mocked over and over again by ungodly and unprincipled anti-christian lesbians."
(from "Six Years In Sodom: From The Journal Of James Hartline," 9/4/2006, written from the "homosexual stronghold" of Hillcrest in San Diego).

"Pam is a 'twisted lesbian sister' and an 'embittered lesbian' of the 'self-imposed gutteral experiences of the gay ghetto.'" -- 9/5/2008



Peter LaBarbera of Americans for Truth Against Homosexuality heartily endorses the Blend, calling Pam:

A "vicious anti-Christian lesbian activist."
(Concerned Women for America's radio show [9:15], 1/25/07)

"A nutty lesbian blogger."
(MassResistance radio show [16:25], 2/3/07)


Pam's House Blend always seems to find these sick f*cks. The area of the country she is in? The home state of her wife? I know, they are everywhere. Pam just does such a great job of bringing them out into the light.
--Impeach Bush


who monitors yours Bevis ?? Just thought I would drop you a line,so the rest of your life is not wasted.
--"Joe"

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Quinnipiac University Poll: racial divide in support of marriage equality

by: Pam Spaulding

Thu May 14, 2009 at 08:00:00 AM EDT


This just landed in my inbox. According to a Quinnipiac University poll released today, New York State voters are split 46% to 46% in support of marriage equality. However, the schism and inability of anyone to successfully tackle religion-based bigotry in the black community plays itself out --- black voters are opposed 57% to 35% with white voters just squeaking over the favorable line at 47% to 45%.  
In this latest survey of more than 2,800 voters, New York State voters support same-sex civil unions 65% to 27 percent with 67% to 24 percent support from white voters and 52% to 39 percent support from black voters.

Jews support same-sex marriage 61% to 34 percent as Catholics oppose it 53% to 39 percent and Protestants say no 55% to 38 percent. Voters who attend religious services at least once a week oppose same-sex marriage 66% to 26 percent, while those who attend services less frequently support same-sex marriage 56% to 36 percent.  Women support the measure 49% to 42 percent while men oppose it 51% to 42 percent.

Democrats support same-sex marriage 59% to 34 percent, but Republicans oppose it 68% to 24 percent while independent voters split with 46 percent in favor and 45 percent opposed.  Same-sex marriage wins 61% to 33 percent support among voters 18 to 34 years old and gets 48% to 44% support among voters 35 to 54 years old, while voters over 55 oppose it 55% to 37%.

..."By religion only, Jewish voters are in favor.  Catholics and Protestants, especially those who get to church more often, are opposed," Carroll added.  

...New York State voters reject 63% to 32% the argument that same-sex marriage is a threat to traditional marriage between a man and a woman.  Voters in every racial and religious group, men and women reject the argument.   Only Republicans split 48% to 48%.

...But voters say by a narrow 49% to 46% margin that denying same sex couples the right to marry is discrimination.  White voters split 49% to 47% while black voters say 48% to 44% that this is not discrimination.

Related:
* Why President Obama hurts his own cause of addressing homophobia in the black community
Pam Spaulding :: Quinnipiac University Poll: racial divide in support of marriage equality
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Well, even the Dems don't feel a need to support us
since our constitutional scholar president says that "god is in the mix" and Marriage should be one man, one woman."
As Donald Trump and Carrie reminded us recently.

They had better pass something, even civil unions, because the next governor is likely to be a republican and his first act will be to rescind the order recognising out of state mariages

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


Why are you sure the Republicans will win?
Just curious.

[ Parent ]
I think we will see the divide
(if there is one, and I think there is a big one) in Washington D.C.


The "religious" opponents are being lied to by their shepherds
I really do believe that with polls like this that show that religion is driving the opposition, that any state senator in New York who believes in religious freedom must vote for the Marriage Equality bill.

Religion-based opposition only makes it clear that the government must protect the religious freedom of those with different religious views.


I'd still like to see some polling
that controls for religious affiliation, education, and other factors. This poll seems to give no indication of where this anti-gay vote in the black community in New York is coming from. Does it level out when age is controlled, for example? What about non-religious African Americans?

thank you -- where is the polling on non-religious blacks?
Or liberal black denominations that do support marriage equality? Age, I am sure, also plays a role if they chose to poll and break it down that way as well.

The frustrating thing about these polls is that almost always show the black community isn't a demographic monolith, a problem that already exists in American society.

But that doesn't negate the serious problem we face with a large slice of the religious black community.


[ Parent ]
.
"inability of anyone to successfully tackle religion-based bigotry in the black community plays itself out"

And do the black religious folks themselves bear no responsibility for their own bigotry? Or is it all to be blamed on other people's "inability" to reach them?

In general though, there is a failure to address religion-based bigotry in any community in the U.S., because everyone is afraid to point out that religion is bullshit. Oh noes, you might offend someone's cherished (absurd) beliefs.


you're missing my point
It is their responsibility, but if no one engages the religious conservative black community on these issues, there's no dialogue. You have to admit that the religious right has no problem going face to face to affirm the bigotry. Our side seems to think there's no point in engaging or educating, when I think the real problem is a discomfort engaging minority communities in the first place.  

[ Parent ]
I agree Pam
Someone once said to me that we should forget about engaging the far right because we could "never win them over" and we should focus instead on the middle.

I stated that I felt the key to winning the middle is by engaging the far right and exposing their hypocrisy.


[ Parent ]
but don't confuse the "religious conservative black community"
with the far right.  

By the way, gay civil rights isn't the only issue that progressives have failed to address black communitites. Immigration reform is another area in which black communities are likely to vote with conservative blocks.

This is also true, to a lesser extent, with education issues (a majority of blacks do support school vouchers and prayer in public schools, for example)


[ Parent ]
School vouchers
Don't they mean religious and racial segregration (and by class of course)?

[ Parent ]
Well, that's what it would amount to.
But there is quite a bit of support for both issues in black communities.

[ Parent ]
I'm Anglo, and I've been told by African American gay folks that my opinion is not welcome.
I've been told many times that Anglo gays should not attempt to engage any African American on this subject, because it's not our right to talk about it.

I would like to reach out to other gay folks of all colors, and other communities whether they are gay or straight, but I worry that my words, coming from an Anglo lesbian, will be unwelcome.  In fact, I've been told that my input would be unwelcome. Not by you - that's why I'm posting this here! But definitely by others, gay and straight, in communities of color.


[ Parent ]
they are wrong
because it's not our right to talk about it.
This is sheer defensive bullsh*t. I hate hearing this "it's my dirty laundry" nonsense. Discrimination is discrimination and no group is off the hook no matter what the history of discrimination is. It's 2009 -- own your bigotry in your communities and do something about it instead of shutting the conversation down, I say.

Of course I get blasted for that by some in the black community, but in turn the greater LGBT community rarely pays attention to issues related to racial discrimination, so that's where the resentment comes from.

People need to get off of their high horses and do some problem solving instead of griping and moaning about who's suffered more.


[ Parent ]
Maybe the best approach would be for Anglo gays, like myself, to focus on the racial discrimination
as well as social and economic discrimination. As you say, "own your bigotry in your communities and do something about it."

It might be counterproductive for Anglo gays to talk about African American homophobia, but it could never be counterproductive for Anglo gays to talk about racism among Anglo gays!


[ Parent ]
But then you're talking to the choir!
Talk with African American, Latino, and Asian gays about racism. They're the ones being affected by the Anglo gays that perpetuate racism.

[ Parent ]
also, "bigotry" also includes
classism (class, IMO, is more of a ticking time bomb in gay communities than race) and ageism.

http://epgn.com/pages/full_sto...  


[ Parent ]
With polls
the devil is usually in the details.

19. In your opinion, what causes someone to be gay or lesbian - do you believe that people are born gay or lesbian, or that people become gay or lesbian because of the way they are brought up, or is it just the way that some people choose to live?

47% of blacks believe it's a choice and 7% believe gays and lesbians are brought up that way! 26% believe that gays and lesbians are born that way. 19% of blacks polled said they didn't know.

Compare that to:

35% of Republicans believe it's a choice, 9% believe gays and lesbians are brought up that way and 38% say that gays and lesbians are born that way. and 19% don't know.

20. Do you have close friends or close relatives who are gay or lesbian?

The range of percentages for all groups ranges between 57 and 66%. Republicans check in at the lowest at 57%, (lol) Democrats check in at 63% and Independents check in at 66%.

63% of whites said yes to #20, 64% of blacks, and 60% of hispanics.

Younger people, those with higher income brackets and college degrees tend to have close friends and relatives that are gay and lesbians.

 


Almost
Younger people, those with higher income brackets and college degrees tend to have close friends and relatives that are out gay and lesbians.

Fixed it for you, love.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi


[ Parent ]
No,
I took that question from the poll itself. That apparently, is the question that was asked.

Although I do wonder how your question would poll. I like it a lot better!


[ Parent ]
Hmmmm...
I got that it was the exact question, Kevin; I was being tongue-in-cheek. ;) And yes, my wording would be different.

20. Do you have close friends or relatives who have come out to you as gay or lesbian?

21. Do you have peers, colleagues, or acquaintances who are already out as gay or lesbian?

I would word it that way because, statistically speaking, nearly everyone knows someone who is gay or lesbian, even if he/she is closeted. The issue is whether they know. I'm not likely to come out to a bigot unless it's imperative that I do so, such as to my family. And we all know how THAT went in the end. I'm closeted at work for a number of reasons, only out to two select people I know and trust implicitly.

There is a major difference in merely knowing someone peripherally who just happens to be out, and having someone close to you trust you enough to COME OUT. It's easier to deny people equal rights if they're merely a coworker, someone you don't truly care about. It's easier to distance them, make them OTHER. It's harder to look at your own child/sister/brother/best friend and say, "You're not as good as I am." Though, as we have seen, christian bigots manage it all the time.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi


[ Parent ]
straw poll on #20
i am part of a pflag panel that goes to schools etc to tell our stories.  when the community college class i was in earlier this week was asked #20, EVERY person in the very full, racially diverse classroom raised their hands.  now THAT is progress.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.


[ Parent ]
Hispanic, Asian/Pacific Islander, Native Americans are not analysable
in this sample, because each group is small % of general voting population and the sample size is too small for statistical significance.

These questions are VERY interesting
17. Some people say that not allowing same-sex couples to get married is discrimination. Do you agree or disagree?

Whites- 49-47% Agree        5% Don't Know
Blacks- 48-44% Disagree     8% Don't Know
Hispanics 51-43% Agree      6% Don't Know
Republicans 67-29% Disagree

16. Some people say that same-sex marriage is a threat to traditional marriage between a man and woman. Do you agree or disagree?

Whites 64-32% Disagree
Blacks 55-37% Disagree
Hispanics 62-29% Disagree
Republicans 48-48%

These 2 questions seem to be a real disconnect. Or something to work with.


Point in all of this being
1) I'm too damn lazy to download all of the figures of all the groups so I'm just choosing the ones I'm interested in.

2) #16 is just wow! If African Americans (at least in New York) think that same-sex marriage is not a threat to "traditional marriage" than what's up?  


[ Parent ]
Maybe we need to know how many in each group are married?


It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.


[ Parent ]
You may be right
but more importantly, the "traditional marriage" argument will not fly in New York. That is true across racial and even political lines (New York Republicans are evenly split).

 


[ Parent ]
Naw, you're not being lazy
Oftentimes interviewers will ask questions so that subjects appear to contradict themselves, but the answers might show a nuance in reasoning (even if it doesn't necessarily make sense to others). So perhaps for the majority of blacks, in this case in NY, the lack of same-sex marriage is not an issue of discrimination, but neither do they feel same-sex marriage is a threat to "traditional" marriage. Both are possible in people's minds.

My problem with the polling (besides not controlling for age, class, religious affiliation - or non-affiliation) with the ethnic minority communities (especially black) is that some of the questions are actually two-in-one. Question #19 is a good example of this. I was always trained to never use an "or" or an "and" in a survey item. It can easily confuse the subject.

Well, no survey is perfect.  


[ Parent ]
As a Gay Jew
I am proud of my tribe. Granted the Orthodox branch of Judaism mirrors the Baptists on this issue but they are the distinct minority in American Judaism.

I have never understood fellow Jews that are anti-gay. We were all in the concentration camps together after all.


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