Q Of The Day: Supreme Court Pick Of Sonia Sotomayor; Prop 8 Ruling - Obama Statement On Marriage?

I don't expect a statement

I really don't expect Obama to make any statements today regarding marriage equality.  If he says anything at all today, it will be all about his SCOTUS pick.

But I wonder if he'll say anything at all today, or just let the spinmeisters do their thing, allow for the public's reaction, and only then formulate whatever "response" might be necessary.  I don't have Obama's political genius, but that's what I'd do if I were he.

"There are two kinds of people in this world -- the kind who separate the world into two kinds of people, and those who don't."  -- Gloria Steinem

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by: red7eric @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 08:28:48 AM CDT

Seeing as though she is "Catholic"

wouldn't that be an indicator as to how she would approach equal rights for the LGBT community?

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by: A&E @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 08:29:15 AM CDT

Not to mention Roe v. Wade

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Claim to fame: Posted first PHB diary to be demoted

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by: cindik @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 08:51:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

really?

A more progressive Catholic?  Thats like saying "A less judgmental Nazi" or "a more centrist Taliban"  Or "A kinder, gentler, Jim Jones"  or even " a more open minded KKK."   Its like saying that while Most of the doctrine is unlivable, the charming sisters of the American Chapter of Our Lady of Negligence have graciously bestowed upon our community a reprieve, and while we're still all going to HELL TO BURN FOREVER, its not our fault, and they will - unlike their fundamentalist brethren - actually let God do the Judging.  Thanks for that CHARITY.   No, seriously, we're fine with just knowing that "fags go to Hell"  that "God hates fags."  What a blessing  that "progressive Catholics" are ok with those sentiments, but just wont actually write them on signs and carry them around like crosses anymore.   THANKSSSSSSSSS!  

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by: prospect247 @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 10:02:56 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Were you responding to me or to M?

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Claim to fame: Posted first PHB diary to be demoted

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by: cindik @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 10:10:47 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

well, there we go. One word and my point was lost entirely?

Ok.  Yes, people do, of late, bandy about the word nazi the way they do the word faggot.  EVERYBODY uses words they dont understand. Soup Nazi anyone?      
But I'm not calling my hairdresser a Nazi because he cuts my hair the way HE wants to.  Im not calling my school teacher a nazi because she thinks three hours of homework a day are more appropriate than my preferred two, in fact, I wasn't actually calling ANYONE a nazi at all.  I was comparing two entities, the catholic church and nazi germany, with what I found to be, strikingly analogous turns of phrase: "progressive catholic" "less judgmental nazi"  The word nazi was not specifically directed at the author of the article to which I was replying, nor to catholics themselves.  I know that a catholic is a catholic and a nazi is a nazi.  I know the third reich and its terrifying reign are NOT the catholic church and the inquisition.  UM, LIKE, DUH.   But when parallels to the great injustices of the past exhibit themselves in institutions and organizations the present, it is the DUTY of those who should like to see the crueler aspects of our histories less often repeated TO SAY WHAT OTHERS WONT.    And the similarities between the two institutions are STRIKING.   It seems like we've deluded ourselves to the point where we are of a mindset that, Naziism and the Nazi Party, the holocaust, were "THE ARCHETYPAL HORROR!"  THE WORST POSSIBLE THING TO HAPPEN EVER SO MUCH SO THAT NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY EVER BE AS BAD AS THAT EVER EVER EVER...............to the point that when I, an informed and conscientious citizen and champion of the trodden-upon dare issue a warning, a comparison, its like, OOOOH!  VOLDEMORT! DONT SAY THAT.  THATS IN THE PAST.  
The reason you are quick to dismiss a LEGITIMATE AND FRIGHTENING PARALLEL is that it might just be too hard for you to believe that GROSS HUMAN NEGLIGENCE AND SUFFERING AT THE HANDS OF FELLOW MEN did not end with the closing of Auschwitz.  It continues.   And to imply my ignorance is to admit your own guilt by association with our oppressors.      Reply ;-) ?

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by: prospect247 @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 15:20:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Whoops - point is lost due to Nazi reference.

There's a correlative to Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies, which The Economist reworded as...

"[A] good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument."

Jon Stewart pretty much summed it up on his show in 2005 (Someone disagrees with you? Compare 'em to a Nazi. Works like a charm. A Hitler charm):

And the Hitlers keep on coming. Yes, Adolf Hitler, one of the worst mass-murders in all of history, has become the go-to metaphor and comparison for anyone you have a minor disagreement with.

...Here's my point. When you compare people to Hitler, enh, you lose a little credibility.

...[P]lease stop calling people Hitler when you disagree with them. It demeans you, it demeans your opponent, and to be honest, it demeans Hitler. That guy worked too many years, too hard, to be that evil to have any Tom, Dick and Harry come along and say "Hey, you're being Hitler." No--You know who was Hitler? HITLER!

Appeals Court Judge Sotomayor isn't a Nazi. By comparing a pick of a Catholic to the Supreme Court somehow with a Nazi reference...

Well, I just look at your statement as automatically being way over the top -- I don't take your statement seriously at all. Sorry, prospect247, but your point is lost to me now.

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~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau

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by: Autumn Sandeen @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 10:42:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Justice William Brennan

was Catholic too.

He is lionised by liberals, hated by the (religious) right. He was a staunch champion of civil rights. He did a HUGE amount to greatly expand civil rights during his time on the Supreme Court.

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by: rfloh @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 11:41:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

It is hard to tell

exactly what her views on abortion are. She has made 2 rulings that could be interpreted as kind of against abortion, but at the same time, at least according to the legal scholars / lawyers that I've read, the decisions and reasonings she made were legally correct.

The Center for Reproductive Law & Policy challenged the Bush admin on the Bush policy stripping U.S. aid to foreign NGOs advocating for or performing abortions, the "global gag rule". Sotomayor wrote an opinion dismissing the case, for lack of legal standing.

In another case, plaintiff teachers challenged a school district policy, whereby teachers should report student pregnancies to the student's parents. Again, dismissed for lack of standing, Sotomayor joined the opinion.

Sotomayor is very likely not going to be a liberal civil rights lioness; for that, Kathleen Sullivan, who would have triggered a huge amount of vitriol from the (religious) right, a fight that Obama has demonstrated no stomach for.

She wrote an interesting opinion that appears to validate a theory that was used by the Warren court, and the likes of Justice William Brennan, to (greatly) expand civil rights. A theory that is hated, and explicitly rejected, by the likes of Antonin Scalia.

She appears to be pretty much a US style centrist. Not a Ginsburg, certainly not a Brennan, but not a Scalia either.

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by: rfloh @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 11:29:15 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

She's also described

as "liberal".  And there is a proud Catholic tradition of saying "screw the Vatican" and acting based on ethics instead of doctrine.  Catholics in the U.S. tend to be rather more progressive than their denomination, IIRC.

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by: M @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 08:55:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

actually liberal centrist

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by: bruhrabbit3 @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 10:50:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

press conference on Prop 8 ruling

FYI...

Prop 8 Ruling Press Conference to be Held Tuesday, May 26 at 10:30 a.m. at San Francisco City Hall

A press conference will be held on Tuesday, May 26 at 10:30 am in response to the California Supreme Court's ruling in the Prop 8 legal challenge. Attorneys, joined by religious and communities of color leaders, will discuss the impact of the court's decision and the next steps moving forward.  

What: Prop 8 legal challenge ruling press conference
When: Tuesday, May 26 at 10:30 a.m.
Who:
   *  S.F. City Attorney Dennis Herrera and Santa Clara County Counsel Ann Ravel
   * Kate Kendell, Executive Director, National Center for Lesbian Rights
   * Shannon Minter, Legal Director, National Center for Lesbian Rights and Therese Stewart, San Francisco Chief Deputy City Attorney
   * Raymond C. Marshall of Bingham McCutchen on behalf of civil rights groups the Asian Pacific American Legal Center, the California State Conference of the NAACP, Equal Justice Society, Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund, Inc., amici
   * Elizabeth Gill, Staff Attorney, ACLU LGBT & AIDS Project
   * Eva Paterson, President, Equal Justice Society, amici
   * Geoff Kors, Executive Director and Andrea Shorter, Coalition Coordinator, Equality California
   * Tawal Panyacosit, API Equality and Karin Wang, Asian Pacific American Legal Center
   * Rev. Rick Schlosser, Executive Director, California Council of Churches, amici
   * Plaintiff couple Gerardo Marin & Jay Thomas

Where: South Light Court, City Hall, San Francisco, California

Prior to the press conference, same-sex couples, civil rights and faith leaders, and attorneys will gather on the steps of the California Supreme Court, Earl Warren Building, 350 McAllister Street in San Francisco.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 08:34:39 AM CDT

Another presser, this one in Los Angeles

FYI:

Prop 8 Challenge Legal Team to Hold Press Conference Following Supreme Court Ruling

At 10:30 a.m. - approximately a half-hour after the expected posting of the ruling - attorneys for plaintiff couples and community leaders will hold a news conference to discuss the ruling and what it means for California's same-sex couples and their families, communities of color, and the future of LGBT rights in California.    Clergy members will deliver an invocation at 9:45 a.m., shortly before the ruling is announced.

WHEN: Tuesday, May 26, 2009
9:45 a.m. Clergy Invocation - Rabbi Denise Eger, California Faith for Equality
10:30 a.m.  News Conference

WHERE: Lucy Florence Cultural Center, 3351 W. 43rd Street, L.A., CA 90008

WHO:        
Ron Buckmire, Jordan Rustin Coalition
Jenny Pizer, Lambda Legal Marriage Project Director and Co-counsel, Strauss v. Horton
Ramona Ripston, Executive Director, ACLU of Southern California
Julie Su, Director of Litigation, Asian Pacific American Legal Center
Nancy Ramirez, Western Regional Attorney, MALDEF
Rocky Delgadillo, Los Angeles City Attorney
Rev. Eric Lee, President/CEO, Southern Christian Leadership Conference of Southern California
Marc Solomon, Equality California (organizational plaintiff in Strauss v. Horton)
Jorge Amaro, Latino Equality Alliance
Marshall Wong, API Equality
Lorri L. Jean, CEO, L.A. Gay and Lesbian Center

Gay rights groups filed Strauss v. Horton, challenging Proposition 8, on November 5.  The National Center for Lesbian Rights, Lambda Legal and the ACLU, representing six couples and Equality California, argued that the radical change attempted by Proposition 8 amounts to a "revision" of the California Constitution that cannot be accomplished by a simple majority vote of the electorate unless first approved by a two-thirds vote of both houses of the Legislature.  Civil rights groups representing people of color and other minority groups joined the challenge because of a shared concern about protecting the constitutional guarantee of equality.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 09:02:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

To answer your the two Qs of the day...

1) Timing of Supreme Court pick coincidence with the California Supreme Court ruling.

Not sure about this; obviously if the ruling had been last week, it's unlikely the announcement of the SCOTUS pick would have occurred. But did the WH possibly take advantage of this date? Most certainly. The MSM would have been all up their you-know-whats looking for statements about the ruling without any other high-profile breaking domestic story in the way (it doesn't count North Korea's madman launching nukes -- no slow news day!). This way they can deflect.

2) Do you think we'll get an official Obama Administration statement on the Prop 8 ruling?

OK, on this one I don't see how they can duck a statement based on being too busy with the SCOTUS pick. There are only three possible ways the CA  court could rule, so it's not as if the folks in the White House Press Office couldn't craft three separate statements ahead of time. Surely the same people also have press releases ready to send out about the SCOTUS pick that were generated based on his short list.

That said, there should be hell to pay at the next press briefing if the WH says nothing about the ruling.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 08:42:27 AM CDT

I don't see how they can "duck" either

but I'd still give even odds.


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by: Louise @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 10:17:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Obama is flying to Vegas

to help out Harry Reid today.

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by: Louise @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 10:25:36 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Vegas Today

and Los Angeles Tomorrow.

I seriously doubt anything will be said about the Nevada Governor Veto of DP legislation, and I think we'll be met with the same response (silence) when Obama is asking Californians for cash while the state goes bankrupt.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

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by: ggw59 @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 10:46:03 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rumorhazit she may be a member of the sisterhood

Heard anything Pam?

Yes this announcemnt couldn't have been made at a better time to drown out the screams coming from the West Coast.

And no, Barry' not gonna say WORD ONE about the ruling.  

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by: David Ehrenstein @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 08:45:28 AM CDT

I've wondered the same...

Is she? Isn't she? She's in her 50's with no spouse and no kids...

And I'm glad they scheduled her announcement for today. Planned, no doubt, before the CA Supreme Court announced that they'd be ruling today. Whichever way the CA ruling comes down, I hope it doesn't get too much mainstream attention. Ideally Prop 8 will be overturned, it will be mentioned on all the news shows with a smile and a shrug and life will go on as normal.

Obama doesn't need to get in the middle of this. Let him focus on what's already on his plate. There's alot there.

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by: RandyH @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 11:32:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I am enough of a political Cynic

That I would say, of course this announcement was timed with the Prop 8 decision being announced today.  

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by: kevinchi @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 08:53:49 AM CDT

I scares me that ,

if confirmed, she will be the 6th Catholic on the SC.  Aren't there any other qualified people for SCOTUS who don't have the Vatican breathing down their necks?

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by: annwsc1 @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 08:59:14 AM CDT

Her Catholicism doesn't bother me a bit

as long as she has demonstrated a clear separation of church and state in her work.  Not all Catholics are rabid Ratzingers, just like not all members of the United Church of Christ are respectful of the 14th Amendment.

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by: Lurleen @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 11:04:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Me neither...

... And not all Jews are Neocons, either.

Almost all hispanic people are Catholic and not all are as devout as others. And I am sure she's managed to keep her religion out of her court decisions, as any good judge with higher aspirations would do.

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by: RandyH @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 11:47:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Better if he keeps his mouth shut.

We don't need another "God is in the mix" type statement.

I am the lizard queen!

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by: RainbowPhoenix @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 09:02:29 AM CDT

Better if he keeps his mouth shut.

We don't need another "God is in the mix" type statement.

I am the lizard queen!

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by: RainbowPhoenix @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 09:02:30 AM CDT

I think it's deliberately

designed to move the conversation away from Prop 8. Say what you want about Obama's record on LGBT rights (I'll refrain from editorializing here), but the fact of the matter is that he does not support same sex marriage. Until this week the momentum was in our favor and same sex marriage was on a lot of people's lips. No matter what the turnout this afternoon the national conversation was destined to be about same sex marriage for days, and instead Prop 8 is going to be relegated to an afterthought the back page of the newspaper.

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by: Stormy @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 09:04:36 AM CDT

That depends on us!

If the Cali Supremes rule against us (as I believe they will), will we get out into the streets in full force?  

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by: kevinchi @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 09:13:05 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Obama won't speak on the ruling

One thing that's worried me from the start is he'd gladly toss us under the bus, esp. to keep the church folk happy. Well, I see tires, and they're coming my way.

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by: the.sue @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 09:54:07 AM CDT

Two easy questions

1) Timing of SCOTUS pick has nothing to do with Prop 8 timing.  Until last week there was no way to know when CA SC was going to release the ruling.  I think the announcement has more to do with Obama being in Los Angeles tomorrow for a fundraising or something.  There will be demonstrators there no matter how H8 turns out.  He's thinking globally.  He doesn't care about us.

2) Which leads to the easy anwser on will WH/Obama release any statement re Prop 8 ruling...No, he hasn't since that namby pamby statement about Iowa which inturn had to be revised.  If any thing gets said at all it will be in the vein of "up to the states" blah blah blah.  I'm happy to be wrong about this, but Prop 8 is not on the WH calendar.

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 10:21:17 AM CDT

And to help back up your first point...

Obama had said repeatedly he wanted to give Congress the full amount of time required to get the nominee seated before the resumption of SCOTUS in the fall.  He pretty much needed to nominate this week to stay within those parameters.

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by: Will St. James @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 10:45:04 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

EFF - the CA Supremes seem to have split the decison...

upholding h8, but also keepong the 18k marriages. :roll eyes:

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by: SharonB @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 12:12:54 PM CDT

Roll eyes.... and Roll Up Sleeves...and back to work.

Hubby took off on errand, cuz he knows I'll be grumpy a while. Congratulations at least to the 18,000 ... who now will know what 'survivor's guilt' feels like.

Including Waymon Hudson.. of Bilerico. Though, of course, living in Florida, it  just muddles things for them. As Pam knows, in NC.  

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 12:25:07 PM CDT

seems odd commenting on a 4 month old thread....doesn't it?

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 15:36:23 PM CDT