Mike Signorile interviews combative Barney Frank about DOMA, criticism of Dems

I listened to this last night

Barney Frank actually used that "play records" line three times.

Clearly he didn't like answering tough questions and the interview defintely went downhill (fast) after he played the Dean statement.

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by: kevinchi @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:27:40 PM CDT

And here's the thing

I've watched him take down opponents on the floor of the House via C-SPAN more times than I can count- he's DAMNED QUICK AND GOOD at thinking and responding on his feet!

But this time, his feet are to the fire and the allegations or insinuations are too close to the truth. Bummer...

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:31:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rarely...

do I have anything good to say about St. Barney, but I have to agree about his ability to rip people to shreds with rules of order; I've seen some instances of it that were things of beauty.

>^..^<

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by: KatRose @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:42:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh, indeed!

Which is why I have to wonder what he could possibly accomplish as a supporter of a fully inclusive ENDA. My goodness, can you imagine what could happen, if his passion for law and skills were put forth in such a manner?

Sadly, I do not think we'll ever see that theoretical come to fruition.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 17:04:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Barney doesn't like Howard Dean

In March, 2005 Boston Globe and WSJ, Barney objected to a statement made by Dean that was critical of Tom Delay.  Sometimes you wonder what side Barney is really on.

Same-Sex Marriage is good for the economy.

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by: CharlesMerrill @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 17:27:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Re: Howard Dean

I just don't get why the Democratic establishment hates him so much. If it weren't for Dean's work at the DNC, they'd still be the minority party in both houses, and Sarah Palin would be sitting in the White House eating moose jerky after having declared herself dictator for life.  

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by: cbear @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 18:51:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's very simple, really

Dean wants to see real change. REAL change, not just the bloviation about change we get from Obama and the rest.  He advocates the one thing they least want to see, the thing that poses a serious threat to their beloved status quo.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 22:37:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Listening Right Now

but everything Barney Frank is saying sounds like how Santa's Little Helper understands human voices:

"Blah blah blah Blahblahblahblahblah.  Blah."

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by: bluegrassfool @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:28:50 PM CDT

hmmm.

Maybe you should consider actually listening to the points he's making, thinking about them, and evaluating his arguments.

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by: kevinerickson @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:48:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I did

And I plan to listen to it a 2nd time just to make sure I clearly understand him - especially his slip-up about winning over our "enemies" - the democrats.

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by: bluegrassfool @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:59:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think Barney is reading the writing on the wall

He won't last much longer if a core constituency realizes he never actually cared about them, and the idea of losing his job scares the hell out of him.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:40:55 PM CDT

His core is a Dem district in MA

not the gay community. I doubt he'll feel much heat (at least over this, he may have some problems over the bank bailouts).

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by: Clarknt67 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:59:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

His position in the party's power structure

has for years been based on the perception that he is our "leader" (or at least one of them) and can keep us in line for the party.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:05:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I doubt he derives much power in Congress

based on the perception he's the GBLT leader. Congress is all about seniority, his power in Congress comes from the fact that he's been winning elections since the stone age.

And of course by now, he's so entrenched in DC, I'm guessing there's hardly a soul left in the beltway that doesn't owe him a favor.

And that explains his placing party over GLBT, he knows which masters to serve.

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by: Clarknt67 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:48:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

PLEASE!

Hate the guy if you must, but how many times does one have to point to the fact that Frank's hold on this seat is rock solid (unless in the future he's caught with a dead boy or a live girl - to reverse the usual joke)?

He won his 2008 election with 70 freaking per cent of the vote, despite the fact that folks are mightily upset about the economy; that Frank's bailiwick is the banking sphere; and that Republicans tried to galvanize support against him on this issue.

We just look as if we have no grasp of political reality when we make statements like that.

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by: Pollyanna @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:41:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Mock me if you must

But really, did you have to throw out the visual of Barney screwing anyone, let alone a corpse?? I mean, COME ON. Between that and the media overload on Michael Jackson, I'm going have nightmares for the next week.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:49:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

LOL!!!!!

I took the cliche for what it was, a cliche. But now you just put a gawd-awful visual in my minds eye. Eewww.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." ~~~ Thomas Jefferson

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by: SD_Dave @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:33:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And yes, I concede

You are right, I wasn't thinking. I know perfectly damn well that Barney Frank is such a permanent fixture of Congress that he'll probably have a body part sealed under a floor tile when he dies. In my current despondency I was projecting what my despairing little heart wishes to see.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 18:00:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sad thing is...

... he shouldn't have.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 19:00:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually...

Barney's pretty good in this, I think.   Frustrated but not combative.  He lays out a coherent plan.  He doesn't scream into the phone, you're wrong about that Pam, with all due respect.  It's sprited but jovial as always.   He's like that on every media appearance.

There is a jump in volume at 15:07, but that seems to be a technical error by an engineer.  Volume in phone conversations can't jump like that because of the program compression that's applied--(i used to engineer at a radio station so i know what i'm talking about.)

His principal frustration--that too much energy is expended yelling at our allies rather than than fighting the battles that really matter to get the votes on these issues--makes a lot of sense.

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by: kevinerickson @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:47:00 PM CDT

Ya know...

This is a case where both sides are right. We should be working on getting those votes.

But we've let our "allies" off too easy, letting them think than supportive words and sentiments were adequate. They need to take us off the backburner and really work for us.

Honestly, if Obama thought the gays were a crucial constituency to getting his health care reforms passed, he'd have done everything we've asked and more.

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by: rdm24 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:50:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

no "votes"

No "VOTES" are needed for Obama to issue a stop loss order to end dismissal of LGBT service persons.

The votes are needed to pass the ultimate repeal in congress.  But, Obama should stop the firings NOW.  He refuses to.  But, he offers no REASON for the refusal other than it is temporary.  SO WHAT if it is temporary.  Issuing the order would put the heat on the congress to act on the legislation.

Obama just doesn't want to take responsibility for it.  He wants congress to do it so he isn't in it alone.

It is the same reason for alll the calls of needing bi-partisanship on health care.  Th dems don't want to take responsibility for their program themselves.  They want repugs on board for cover.

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by: timNC @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:54:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

in response to..

'that too much energy is expended yelling at our allies'

Were yelling because our allies are acting more like our foes. Some days I do wonder if the house and senate are controlled by the dems or the repubs....because on GLBT issues, sadly I cant tell. Aside from that I dont have much of a problem with Barney.

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by: LoveMoby @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:51:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

We're yelling because our allies

haven't been listening when we ask quietly and politely, time and time again.

That's kind of common human behavior.

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by: Clarknt67 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:56:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

no, the way it started

was Aravosis saying the brief was comparing our relationships to incest and pedophilia, which claim then turned viral. And this is where Barney disagrees (as, frankly, do box turtle bulletin and law dork). So, that's exactly where Barney got pissed off - that's the point he's harping on when he's asking Signorile about the language: we got to arguing the second part was awful after all the big media just printed that we got pissed off because of "incest and pedophilia."

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by: avocado @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 21:04:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Stated poorly but people are still right to be insulted by that part.

Calling the cases that ss marriages are being compared to in the brief incest and pedophilia is a stretch, but people are still right to be insulted by the DOJ using those cases.

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by: Narcoleptic_Kitty @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 17:29:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

...

I would agree (and I do think that's a reason to be angry), but that's not the way that our community showcased this. Everyone was running around crying "incest and pedophilia."

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by: avocado @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 17:50:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

not combative, he doesn't scream

You made me listen for shouting.  As far as volume goes, talk radio host Mike Signorile was consistently much louder than Rep. Barney Frank was.  I'm convinced that you are correct, it was an engineering artifact.    The "heated" part of the interview started with, and mostly dealt with, Signorile repeatedly talking over and cutting off Frank while Frank was answering a question.  More than once, Frank had to ask Signorile to let him complete his answer.  Rep. Frank famously has no patience for being interrupted and  he is assertive and scolding against such rude, unprofessional conduct.  Other politicians are less strident about this than Frank is.  I suppose that Frank would have responded in greater length about the Howard Dean sound-byte if he had been permitted to complete his answer to the previous question.  Frank's conduct might be considered prima donna except that unethical radio and TV programs frequently use such interruptions for hostile purposes.  Signorile likely was being manipulative, but he likely was not being hostile; on the contrary, he concluded the interview saying how much he "always enjoy[s] talking to" Frank. (-: ... evidently, more than he enjoys listening to Frank. :-)  Maybe he was very anxious to raise the Howard Dean issue before running out of time and he just bungled how he did it.  

This topic's lead got buried.  Frank predicted that transgender-inclusive ENDA legislation would be approved in the House of Representatives around September and by the Senate near the end of the year or early next year.  Frank was also upbeat about transgender-inclusive hate-crimes legislation.  He said that DADT had enough support in the House, but that it could not get enough votes to pass the Senate.   Frank scolding Signorile is pedestrian stuff by comparison.

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by: KerryGinn @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 17:08:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

All Power is Ultimately Derived From the Consent of the Governed

Barney Frank is the most powerful GLBT person in the country. However, this power he has isn't his to keep; its on loan from his constituents, and they can take that away from him any time they like.

The problem is, his constituency is not the GLBT community; it's the residents of Massachusetts' 4th Congressional District, which, while heavily Democratic, has more straights in it that GLBTs. Were he the Congressman representing West Hollywood, he'd probably have more respect for the GLBT community.

After all, for everyone here not living in Massachusetts 4... can you vote for or against him? Does his ability to keep his job have anything to do with your opinion of him?

Well, if you donate to his campaign it does. Still, he's been in that Congressional seat since Moses was in diapers, so its a pretty good bet he'll stay there until he dies or quits.

So the question is, how exactly do we pull his strings?

I'm not sure we can.

Therefore, complaining about Frank's attitudes toward GLBT issues is just so much pissing in the wind.  

My dad was a steelworker
My mom was a kitchen girl
and that's why
I'm a socialist.
-from an old song I used to hum to myself

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by: DaveB @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:51:30 PM CDT

"Barney Frank is the most powerful GLBT person in the country"

Make that "most powerful POLITICIAN who happens to be gay" and I'll agree.

You make some good points.

Frank is a politician first. It that weren't the case, he'd be out of a job.

When we consider a politician, we have to consider the people he represents. Most of the folks who Frank represents aren't LGBT.

When Frank speaks, he speaks for his district -- not the LGBT community.  

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 16:26:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If Barney want to volunteer to be the Dems

spokesperson for the "Let's mollify the homos!" National Tour, he needs to be prepared for some pointed questions and not fly off the handle. Signorile speaks for many, when Frank shouts him down, he's shouting down a legion of GBLT (former?) Democrats.

He needs to take a chill pill. Frank embarrassed himself.

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by: Clarknt67 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:57:26 PM CDT

Signorile hasn't forgotten his roots, has he?

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by: kevinchi @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 14:59:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

He hasn't strayed

he's still doing the same thing as always, he just has a microphone and a larger audience.

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by: Clarknt67 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:50:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

He hasn't strayed

he's still doing the same thing as always, he just has a microphone and a larger audience.

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by: Clarknt67 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:50:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Here's a different assessment

Looks to me like Signorile seems to be speaking only for himself and some of the lgbt blogs:

"In two dozen interviews on the street in Manhattan and Brooklyn, gay, lesbian, and transgendered New Yorkers generally first discussed the economy, healthcare, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and issues that are not specific to the queer community when asked to evaluate Obama." (Gay City News)

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by: avocado @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 21:17:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What is he so angry about?

Since last night's fundraiser was such a big success despite our anger; and since that has effectively proved how marginal all of us are who are so pissed at Obama and the Democrats...then why isn't Barney just happy as a clam ?

This is just one more sign that, despite all the spinning and PR they're trying to do, we are having an impact and mustn't let up.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:12:19 PM CDT

I'm With You

You can definitely tell something's eating at him.

Sounds to me like our "reps" have been spending too much time goofing off, and now that things are getting a little heated and people are starting to show our patience is wearing thin, MORE time is needed to "accomplish things".

Oh, and money too.

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by: bluegrassfool @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:26:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

5, 4, 3, 2, . . .

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by: ggw59 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:16:51 PM CDT

Being from Mass I can Attest that this is just Normal Barney

There really is nothing in this that is over the top or unusual for Barney Frank.  I've never known him not to try to talk over interviewers or steamroll a conversation, especially when he is cornered.  Likewise, he has always been Chief Aplogist for the Democratic Party and in particular Democratic Presidents.  He aplogized for Clinton's signature on DOMA ("he had no choice") and he will apologize for Obama at every turn.  

However, he did say something compelling that I hope everyone heard.  He stated that our issues are not as important as the war and the economy.  That is true to non-gay Americans, but not to the majority of LGBT folks.  Our issues are dircetly tied to the economy (benefits, retirement, marriage benefits, taxation) and are directly related to the war (DADT) so to suggest that LGBT folks are somehow "selfish" to think that our issues are worthy of the President's attention underlines the real problem with Barney.  He DOESN'T think our issues are important enough for the President.  

So when Obama does anything, of course Barney is going to grovel like a hungry dog at Obama's feet.  He lives for the benevolance of our leader on LGBT issues, because he believes that is all we are worthy of.  The fallacy is that Barney himself is an LGBT leader.  (Can you imagine MLK saying that the Plessy v. Ferguson brief was OK?)

Barney is a politician, who is a Democrat, who happens to be gay. And now that he has a partner, Barney wants those federal benefits because they benefit him personally, not you or me.  Once he gets that passed, he will rest on his laurels.

No one should mistake Barney for a LGBT leader.  He is not, never has been, never will be, doesn't want to be, and won't fight for you.  Ever.

His 108 degree turn on the DOMA brief was pitch perfect for Barney.  Just when we thought he grew a set, he immediately caved into Rahm Emmanuel's demands that he reverse himself and defend Obama.  It was classic Barney Frank.  A real thing of beauty if you understand his motives.

My point is if anyone is still operating under the assumption that Barney is in our corner, get over it.  He never was.            

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by: salemlawyer @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:19:12 PM CDT

SOmething transfolks have said for two years

just saying...

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 18:58:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

his 180 degree turn on the DOMA brief

can be explained by this and this. (And I agree with their legal analyses.)

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by: avocado @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 21:24:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Good arguments, but I disagree with your conclusion

Rep. Barney Frank is the most powerful politician in the Congress who is in "our corner."   (Perhaps other people have good reason to grant that status to Sen. Ted Kennedy.)  I infer that we share similar attitudes regarding what contemporary politicians have become.  The best part of your argument is saying, look "Barney is a politician."  In his position, Frank juggles an awful lot of priorities and obviously his own career has an especially dear priority for him.   As for this topic's other prominent gay, I cannot say whether or not Mike Signorile is also guilty of self-promotion; some other people here would certainly know better than I.

The overarching question is: Since the Congress is almost overwhelmingly Democratic, and since that party made glowing campaign promises to the GLBT voters a year ago, why has so very little legislation been passed, and why have our champions in the Congress not delivered much, much more?  I'm pretty sure that you veer into character assassination about that.  It isn't that Rep. Frank refuses to deliver in one piece of legislation or the other; it's that he cannot deliver much legislation and that any laws that he does help to pass are going to be somewhat(!) flawed and imperfect.   Apart from its members yielding their virtue to K-Street, so far this year, Congress has a tiny list of accomplishments — and much on the list could be considered earmarks.  (-: Oh, if only "equal justice under law" could be an earmark! :-)  As an instrument of freedom and democracy, our current Congress is ridiculously inefficient.  

Frank styles himself as a bluntly speaking and entirely pragmatic politician.  I see him struggling over the conflict between being blunt and being pragmatic.   As good as he may be convinced that his advice to the LGBT community is, he accepts that it is going to ruffle some feathers.   He's blunt; we don't like what we hear him say and we get indignant; he gets teed-off at us for being such babies; we get really bratty; he doesn't have any more time for that; we can't communicate with him anymore.    No good will come of this vicious spiral.  

We want our rights
And we don't care how
We want our revolution
Now

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by: KerryGinn @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 14:17:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Of Course Signorile Self-Promotes...

...we all do. Signorile is a community media figure, and self-promotion is just part of the job. I don't see that as necessarily a bad thing, though.

While I've got my own issues with Signorile and his show for reasons unrelated to what we're talking about here, I thought he conducted an excellent, well-prepared, thought-out, topical interview. For Barney Frank to attack Mike as he did for simply asking the same questions people in the community are already asking about these issues and about the Democratic Party was, IMHO, completely unfair and a disservice to our community.

I must admit though, one thing has become clearer to me after hearing this interview. I always wondered why Barney Frank has thus far refused to come on my own Internet radio show as a guest. Until now, I've kind of assumed that because my audience is typically far smaller than Mike Signorile's or Bill O'Reilly's he and his staff feel I'm just too insignificant a media figure for him to be bothered with, even though I'm probably one of the better-known trans mediamakers out there, at least online.

Now, I'm starting to think that the part of the real reason he won't come on my show is because he knows I'll ask him the same kind of questions Mike did, and I'd press him for answers.

Unlike Mike, because I do my show at my own expense, on my own timetable, and commercial-free, my show's format is whatever I say it is. If I'm having a good interview with someone, I'll keep them on the air with me (assuming they're willing) for longer than scheduled and push the break time until later.

If he were willing, I'd do the same with Barney Frank. Because I don't have the commercials and other breaks that I would absolutely have to take if I were on commercial radio like Signorile, I'd give him all the time he wanted to take to respond to my questions.

That said, I think I now understand why I'll probably never get a chance to interview Barney Frank on my show. Sadly, it's now pretty clear what he thinks of those of us within the community who challenge or question his positions in the media in even the smallest way.

 

Rebecca Juro  

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by: Beckygrrl @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 17:15:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Wow! I'm shocked.

I'm not just shocked at Rep. Frank's support of the DoMA defense and everything else Obama has or hasn't done.  I'm very shocked at how inappropriate and unprofessional Rep. Frank was in this interview.  When Barney Frank SHOUTS towards the end of the interview, I had to stop listening to his BS.

Barney Frank does not speak for LGBT Americans.  Nor even the people in Massachusetts he is supposed to represent.

Barney Frank is nothing more than anti-gay Obama's lapdog.

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by: g2k @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:25:55 PM CDT

I was thinking the same thing

Why would he be defending the brief.

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by: PSzymeczek @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:54:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's simple

Low self-esteem.

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by: TrumpetDC @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 01:48:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Here's my problem...

Barney Frank is a politician and he's viewing this whole uproar over the DOMA brief through that lens.  He's taking a very practical approach and trying to achieve LGBT-positive legislation one piece at a time... bit by bit... over the coarse of years.  That's the disconnect.

Much of the LGBT community was and is expecting faster action on these issues.  We don't understand why these separate pieces of legislation can't be combined into a single bill, which the President could then throw his considerable weight behind.  Call it the LGBT Civil Rights Act of 2009 and include DOMA, DADT, ENDA, Hate Crimes, Domestic Partners, HIV Travel Ban, etc all in one go.  

This isn't 1993 anymore and push has come to shove.  The President has failed to protect, serve or defend LGBT Americans from policies he has pledged to end.  Barney Frank is still operating as if we have all the time in the world to fix these problems while most of the LGBT community is sick of the stalling and excuses!

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by: JusticeDemon @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:32:41 PM CDT

Please

add UAFA to your list.

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by: ggw59 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:37:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sorry!

Too many abbreviations to remember!!!

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by: JusticeDemon @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 15:47:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually.......

If the legislature were to simply add sexual orientation and gender identity to the Civil Rights Act many of the problems would be solved.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." ~~~ Thomas Jefferson

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by: SD_Dave @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:39:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's in part

What the omnibus bill proposes.

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by: kevinchi @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 16:42:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Then how do you account for

this for example? Where's the outcry? Why weren't there thousands protesting the fundraiser instead of 40 people?

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by: avocado @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 21:28:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Obama, like ALL other presidents

realize that once they get into office, the reality and political complexity that is the US system overrides all the good intentions and promises that candidates make. It happens ALL the time. I think Obama is a friend of the gay community, but I think political reality smacked him right in the middle of his prominent ears.  

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by: Donica @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 17:15:43 PM CDT

I think it's worse than that though

I think DADT could easily be suspended by Stop Loss, and he could order congress to get to work stat, and overall, it'd be a political win, and build capital not expend it. ("He even did what Bill Clinton couldn't!" it could be said.)

Even the majority of Conservative Republicans think DADT should be overturned.

There's an apathy there, that's just strange. He's so reticent, I don't know if it's him, or Rham, or what. But he's doing the political math wrong.

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by: Clarknt67 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 17:31:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think it's worse than that though

I think DADT could easily be suspended by Stop Loss, and he could order congress to get to work stat, and overall, it'd be a political win, and build capital not expend it. ("He even did what Bill Clinton couldn't!" it could be said.)

Even the majority of Conservative Republicans think DADT should be overturned.

There's an apathy there, that's just strange. He's so reticent, I don't know if it's him, or Rham, or what. But he's doing the political math wrong.

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by: Clarknt67 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 17:31:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

sorry, I have no idea why I'm double posting!

sorry

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by: Clarknt67 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 17:32:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

you're serious?

They can't even pass Matthew Shepard Act quickly through Congress. It's been sitting in the Senate since April (two months; it took a month to get it through the House). So, I can see Dems logic that if President signs the stop-loss, Republicans (mostly) will argue that we should see how it's working out before repealing DADT. I don't know if this vision is correct, but I can definitely see how it will work. And it's not necessarily such a big push that even the majority of Republicans and conservatives support it, because they those opposing repeal of DADT are not concentrated in one or two states, they are spread throughout the US, and I can see why even a Republican politician would not necessarily want to support DADT repeal.

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by: avocado @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 21:36:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Of course I'm serious, look at the polls

DADT repeal out polls hate crimes.

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by: Clarknt67 @ Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 23:25:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I know what the polls say

Feel free to reread what I typed. What I do think is that Obama needs to actually spearhead it by bringing the issue to Congress (which is what the Dems wanted). (Why are they such cowards I wonder.)

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by: avocado @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 02:14:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

yes, which is what I said

he could order congress to get to work stat,

What in my original post, what are you objecting to by asking me if I'm serious?

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by: Clarknt67 @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 05:37:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

the title

was about you thinking that it would be a "political win." Didn't look to me like it could be one, b/c imho it's going to be a drawn out process whichever way it goes (precisely b/c Congress is not moving on it in any way).

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by: avocado @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 05:41:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think if Obama and the Dems were on their game

they could showcase the service of Dan Choi and Victor Farhrenbach and dare to GOP to place their culture war issues over nat'l security. It could be easy.

But Dems get stupid about teh gays...  

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by: Clarknt67 @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 11:30:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Geez

Frank isn't just lukewarm on LGBT issues; he's petulant jerk, too.  

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by: earthlingblues @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 01:29:51 AM CDT