Jackson autopsy: emaciated, needle-mark-riddled

The thing is though

Its been aparent for quite awhile now that there was something seriously wrong with him for a LONG time now.

The man clearly suffered from BDD and likely a host of other issues as well. That no one really intervened says alot about the people he surrounded himself with.

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 10:48:58 AM CDT

All horrible

and my heart really goes out for his kids. Read where his elder son Prince was there watching them give his father CPR and thought his father was clowning around...

My sister doctor-shopped for years and at one point worked as a service rep for a "Big Pharma" company. She also stole thousands from family to support her habit.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 11:08:04 AM CDT

Jackson

They really need to start cracking down on this medication process for Celebrities.  They can get whatever they want whenever they want.

Sciatica

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by: jjjansen @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 11:21:05 AM CDT

Not just celebs

After a shoulder injury, I was supplied with as much Norco as I wanted for 18 months. I ended up in the ER and almost died.

My doctor never told me about the risks. He did nothing to help get me off the medication.

He just got out his prescription pad whenever I asked for more. He kept giving me stronger drugs and higher dosages.

I've talked to many people who have had this same experience.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 11:55:24 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I was very impressed over the weekend

to read of your experiences, especially that you openly share them as a means to educate others. That takes a strength of character- to anecdotally try to break down the stigmas of drug addiction.

I'm so relieved that you survived your experience! Too many times, our patients who came in via the ER did not.  

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:32:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Money talks and success is big money

I think what people fail to understand is that these days the cash industry is alive and well. Limitations on powerful medications are likely to be placed there by an insurance company or hospital with limited resources for the demand rather than because of a doctor, pharmacists or other. And tracking dosages of medication to an individual is often done through their method of payment. So paying cash can get you a lot more medication, especially if you happen to travel a lot a use varying doctors and pharmacies. It would be just too expensive to check every office and every pharmacy every time someone fills a prescription.

Always thinking about it...

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by: kudo451 @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 11:23:59 AM CDT

These are the cheapest drugs

My insurance company paid for massive dosages of hydocodone. It is a very cheap drug.

If the doctor changes the medication (Vicodin to Norco, etc.) or changes the dosage, the insurance company ignores the previous prescription. No one asks you to turn in the pills that are remaining.

This happened to me time and time again. Over a short time, I had a huge stockpile of pills. I never had to go doctor shopping or pay cash.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:02:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A request...

...Can we please not use this as an excuse to bash Hollywood. I'll tell you, as an insider, how it is in "free wheeling Hollywood."

Exactly like everywhere else.

People get addicted.  They get the drugs they need however they can.  Money talks.  Multiple doctors works nicely. Having a friendly doc works too.

Just like it does in Raleigh/Durham.

The difference is we don't hear about it when the guy down the street games the system.  We do when it's a celeb, which makes it seem like Hollywood is some sort of hotbed for drug misuse.

Sorry, but I just get weary of hearing a group of people tarnished because of an oft repeated misperception.  

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by: DavidinPS @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 11:45:12 AM CDT

You're right, of course

It's not so much about being "Hollywood" as just being obscenely rich.  If you're rich and well-connected, you can find doctors to get you whatever you want.  Hollywood is just the most obvious to most people, because it has a large concentration of rich celebrities who are in the public eye.

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by: popebuck1 @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:07:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm not rich

I did live in an area where most of the population is rich -- Monterey/Pebble Beach/Carmel.

My doctor gave me lots of pills and kept me "happy" until it almost killed me.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:15:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

the Hollywood problem

Of course these problems are everywhere, but there are centers of storm, and it's where the rich and spoiled huddle. The freewheeling aspect is the historic enabling by corrupt police, doctors and government institutions that have long been manipulated in the past by the studios (lots of documented history is out there -- Blender David Ehrenstein probably has a lot of it in his head), that didn't want bad PR out there in the general public, and now, simply wealthy celebrities doing the same. It's institutionalized looking the other way that has to be addressed there.

The concentration of wealth in Tinseltown draws these people in -- Chopra's essay outlines why this problem is exacerbated and concentrated.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:33:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Or perhaps...

Many people like me die in the ER and nobody cares. My death wouldn't be news.

Maybe Hollywood is no different from my little corner of the world, except that TMZ isn't here to let everyone know that Fritz was hooked on pain pills.

I can't help but imagine that Michael Jackson could have been in the same position I was. I was addicted to presciption drugs and thought I could simply stop taking them. That almost killed me.

I am a few months younger than Michael Jackson. He was just starting to rehearse and get back in shape. I can imagine that he may have decided to stop taking drugs the way I did. That can be deadly.

He may not have died of an overdose. He could have died as the result of trying to go cold turkey. That happens all of the time -- more often than people think.

I was treated by a great doctor who specializes in drug addiction. He told me that thousands of people end up in ERs every year just like I did.

The withdrawal from the drugs isn't what actually kills people. You can have seizures, anxiety, high blood pressure and a rapid heart rate and if you're an older person like me who is out of shape and has a family history of heart disease, that is all it can take to kill you.

Jackson probably died of a heart attack. That doesn't mean he was on drugs at the time. He could have been in withdrawal and had a seizure along with a rapid pulse.

BTW, I was treated with a drug called Subutex. It is a pill you let dissolve under your tongue. You take it in smaller and smaller doses until you aren't addicted.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 13:29:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think that one of the reasons

this becomes prevalent in Hollywood is that as one's star rises, there are fewer people around to say no or stop.

The very nature of Hollywood means that there are almost no consequences for bad judgement. Ordinary people tend not to have hangers on that will tell them that whatever they do is just brilliant. Most of us are forced to confront out stupidity eventually. Hell, many celebrities don't even have to worry about the wrath of the legal system.  

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:34:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's like this

I know that a doctor should say "no" if a patient is taking prescribed medication to the point where it is dangerous and possibly fatal.

But...

Was anyone going to tell Michael Jackson no? Perhaps, but then if I were Michael Jackson wouldn't I simply seek out someone else who would give me whatever I felt I needed (I can understand the mentality from the POV that I am a recovering drug addict.)

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:00:34 PM CDT

Pam's experience...

I hate to bring this up, Pam. But, did you stop to consider that white folks in Durham could be treated differently by the pharmacies there?

My doctor just doled out pills to me by the hundreds. I had bottles and bottles of just about every painkiller you can name. I was hooked on them for 18 months and almost died in the ER.

Currently, I have a friend with boxes and boxes of morphine injections. I've gone to pick them up for him at Walgreens. No problem. He's got a terminal illness. Maybe that's the difference.  

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:12:01 PM CDT

never considered that, Fritz

I figured it was an issue of the insurance company and the pharmacy trying to address fraud in their midst. I just thought the "solution" was absurd and counterproductive for the patient. I'm sure if I was paying cash to a physician off the insurance roster that I could have obtained more.  

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:36:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

More regulation? Pay what you already owe first

Regulatory action costs big money. Who is going to pay for all these additional crackdowns on industry?

The federal government already has a $58 trillion account deficit. The average American owes approximately $189,000 back to the government -- on top of home mortgage, car, and credit-card debt. See: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Anyone who demands additional federal regulation should first explain how they intend to pay what they already owe.

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by: beltwaymike @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:43:03 PM CDT

This may be the first time

that Deequack Chopra has been right about anything.

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by: TomTallis @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 13:05:10 PM CDT

Jackson hadn't been dead for more than a couple of hours, it seemed,

before Chopra was being quoted saying he "knew" this and he had "warned" Jackson about that regarding his drug use. My first thought was, funny how he didn't feel any responsibility to speak out before the guy died, but he's Johnny-on-the spot now "educating" the public.

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by: Pollyanna @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 13:14:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ah, doctor/patient confidentiality?

or a media hog?

Or both?

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 13:26:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yeah, good point.

Thing is, though, doesn't the confidentiality of the dr./patient relationship extend post mortem?  Not just until the body has cooled to room temp?

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by: Pollyanna @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 14:50:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Depends

In psychology I think it depends on whether the patient is potentially harmful to himself or others to the point that they maybe ready to act out. I am not certain as to how exactly that applies to the medical profession in its' entirety or to patients that are dead.

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 14:57:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I know this

I dated a psychologist for a few years.

Patient confidentiality ends at death.

After that patient dies, the therapist can talk to the family, testify in court, etc.

If the therapist attempts to profit from the dead patient's confidential information, he or she is subject to losing his license. Talking to the press for pay, writing a book, and things like that violate ethical standards.

If the patient is a threat to himself or others, the therapist must notify the police. He can't call someone who may have been threatened directly.

My ex wouldn't even talk to family members after that patient died. He felt that confidentiality extended after death and that most patients expected that to be the case.

He was an Army psychologist for something like 20 years and would not share patient information with the military even when he was ordered to do so. His professional ethics trumped military protocol -- I never knew that was the case. He only made recomendations based on his findings -- and would not hand over records.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 15:13:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is fake

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/...

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by: southleft @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 13:54:19 PM CDT

sigh..

the tabloids strike again...

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 15:40:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I hope that this is too.

http://www.celebrity-mania.com...
That's just gross.  Better quality of preservation than with Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, or Mao, but still gross.

My America includes LGBT families.

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by: Mena @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 15:47:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Plastination?

Jackson would be the one most likely to go that route. But, I bet it is a hoax.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 17:19:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It looks like it was.

Whew!

My America includes LGBT families.

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by: Mena @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 18:30:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

They found a bunch more pills today.

Two plastic grocery bags full, in addition to what they found last week.

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by: PSzymeczek @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 22:20:57 PM CDT