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The Christian Civic League of Maine's Mike Hein calls Pam's House Blend:
"a leading source of radical homosexual propaganda, anti-Christian bigotry, and radical transgender advocacy."

He is "praying that Pam Spaulding will "turn away from her wicked and sinful promotion of homosexual behavior." (CCLM's web site, 10/15/07)


Ex-gay "Christian" activist James Hartline on Pam:
"I have been mocked over and over again by ungodly and unprincipled anti-christian lesbians."
(from "Six Years In Sodom: From The Journal Of James Hartline," 9/4/2006, written from the "homosexual stronghold" of Hillcrest in San Diego).

"Pam is a 'twisted lesbian sister' and an 'embittered lesbian' of the 'self-imposed gutteral experiences of the gay ghetto.'" -- 9/5/2008



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A "vicious anti-Christian lesbian activist."
(Concerned Women for America's radio show [9:15], 1/25/07)

"A nutty lesbian blogger."
(MassResistance radio show [16:25], 2/3/07)


Pam's House Blend always seems to find these sick f*cks. The area of the country she is in? The home state of her wife? I know, they are everywhere. Pam just does such a great job of bringing them out into the light.
--Impeach Bush


who monitors yours Bevis ?? Just thought I would drop you a line,so the rest of your life is not wasted.
--"Joe"

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I Have An "Angry Inch"

by: Autumn Sandeen

Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 09:00:00 AM EDT


(NOTE FROM PAM: Autumn wanted to respond to the many emails and comments from the transgender community in response a couple of diaries that generated contentious, often angry and uncivil exchanges between commenters and how moderation was handled. This comment thread is completely for your open feedback; she and I will let you speak.)
Suddenly I'm Miss Farrah Fawcett on TV...
Until I wake up, and I turn back into myself.

--Hedwig, from Hedwig And The Angry Inch's Wig in a Box

Kitty Bon-BonSomewhere between communicating effectively -- so that people will listen to my peers and me about trans civil rights issues -- and communicating only anger and hate, I feel lost. I don't want to give into "the tone argument" -- the argument that oppressors get to define what words the oppressed get to use, and get to say "I'd pay attention to you if your tone was better" -- but somewhere between civility and "the tone argument" there must be a balance...there must be a middle ground.

As we've called for civility between blenders here at Pam's House Blend -- well, today I asked my kat Bon-Bon about where that balance and middle ground is. As usual, she silently turned from looking out her perch at the front window -- the window that that looks out on the street -- and silently stared back at me.

[Below the fold -- trans-feminist terminology that's currently spoiled at The Blend, feeling like I'm fruitlessly railing against incivility atThe Blend, and discussion of how I have "an angry inch."]



Excerpt (from below the fold): Frankly, my transgender peers, this is where I began seeing the terms cisgender and cissexual as weapons in the Pam's House Blend threads. When, in my opinion, these terms should be used to teach -- as Julia Serrano and others use the term -- it was used to express anger and hate.

...In my opinion, this blender began this recent Pam's House Blend a discussion of cis- terminology with a can of gasoline and a match, and then has responded with anger as I tried to put out the fires.

Autumn Sandeen :: I Have An "Angry Inch"
Cup Of CoffeeThe balance issue began with me over the terms cissexual and cisgender. I've always liked the words cissexual (for not transsexual; for non-transsexual) and cisgender (for not transgender; for non-transgender). I liked that these terms took the negative prefixes away from my transgender and transsexual identities when describing people who aren't trans.

The term cisgender was, as far as the research I can find, was first used by a trans man named Carl Buijs (in the mid-nineties), and cisgender and cissexual were then popularized by Julia Serrano in her book Whipping Girl: A Transsexual Woman on Sexism and the Scapegoating of Femininity. From a feminist and privilege perspective, these two cis- terms have been used in helping to define for non-transgender and non-transsexual people the kinds of oppression trans people experience. And even though the cis- terms were popularized in a feminist work, the concepts of cissexualism and cisgenderism apply as equally to trans men, trans women, genderqueers, and other types of trans people.

I believe, in reading Serrano's book and her essays, that she meant the terms in a neutral way to describe a certain kind of privilege -- in the same vein of the concepts of white privilege, male privilege and straight privilege. These privileges exist in more than just theory, but those who are experiencing these privileges are often unaware of their privileges, and sometimes folk (rightfully) take offense when these terms and privileges are pointed out to them.

Frankly, I didn't used to understand the concept of white privilege because I never experienced straight privilege. That is, until about my mid-forties, when I started "passing" as a white female. Even as a morbidly obese woman, my feminine movements, speech, and style of dress no longer identified me as being someone the the other f-word described.

When first confronted with my then newly experienced white privilege as a white woman, and was told I was communicating with others from a place of white privilege, I took offense. The very idea that I had it any better than any other human being sounded ludicrous to me, because my experience of being sexually harassed in the military told me I never had any privilege of any sort to operate from.

In time, though, it slowly dawned on me that I now did have white privilege, and I noticed it because I also gained that mainstream straight privilege -- my feminine movements, speech, and style of dress now were considered "normal" behavior for a woman, when those same behaviors identified me as gay when I presented as a white male.

And then, when I lost 125 pounds after my gastric bypass -- well, then I really noticed what being perceived as a white, attractive woman (for my age, anyway) in American society. Realizing that part of my "strength" at being a publicly transgender comes from how I can "pass" as female in society, and am out of the closet by choice instead of my appearance giving me away as trans...my white, female, privilege shocked me to my core. But being aware of it as I am now, I try to use it to better other trans people's lot in life -- especially for transyouth.

Let's be honest -- no one likes to be confronted with the privileges they experience, especially when one has one or more privileges to operate from (such as being white and male), but at the same time operate from a position of not having privilege (such as being gay). I had white privilege even when I didn't have straight privilege, but I didn't know I had any privilege in society whatsoever.

Uh, hey, some of us were there when Aravosis publicly made the case that we [transgender people] don't belong in his cisgender gay-rights movement.

It's not ancient history for us. It's the way Aravosis treats trans people. We've borne the scars; we're the ones who had our comments deleted or edited, earned our bans from his site.

And you wonder why we hate the guy? ...

That's the exact comment in the Aravosis thread that first injected the term cisgender into our recent discussions. And, That's not my emphasis in that comment above, it's the blender's emphasis.

In that comment, the term cisgender wasn't used to explain privilege to people who didn't understand it, but instead used to angrily -- accusatorily -- pointing a finger at John Aravosis for being a gay white male who doesn't care about the civil rights of transgender people. It was that weaponized use of that cis- term that began the current Pam's House Blend debate over cisgender and cissexual terminology here at The Blend. When I've mentioned repeatedly that the two cis- terms have been weaponized at The Blend, this is the is starting point as to where I feel the term was weaponized against gay white men.

Frankly, my transgender peers, this is where I began seeing the terms cisgender and cissexual as weapons in the Pam's House Blend threads. When, in my opinion, these terms should be used to teach -- as Julia Serrano and others use the term -- I saw the term cisgender used to express anger and hate.

The writer of that comment has now written her own blog about how I've shut down discussion of the cis- terms here at The Blend. She's also commenting that I shut down discussion -- many comments to that effect in her twitter feed. In my opinion, this blender began this recent Pam's House Blend a discussion of cis- terminology with a can of gasoline and a match, and then has responded with anger as I tried to put out the fires.

Next weaponized cisgender comment in that thread:

Here is main point for Aravosis and all other cisgendered, transbigoted privileged assholes

The fight for GLB rights and the fight for Transgender rights are the same fight, because, at the most basic, they are rooted in the fight for people other than cisgendered, straight (white, wealthy) men to have a sexuality and a gender identity and not be punished or shamed for it.

Not to mention it's just the right goddam thing to do.

Go forth and converse.

To my transgender peers, let me say this: use the terms cisgender and cissexual. However, I recommend using the terms not as pointed weapons, but as the teaching tools about privilege that these terms are meant to be. PitchforkAs for me now though, I've personally lost the ability to use cisgender and cissexual as educational words for quite awhile. What originally started out as moderation and civility issue at The Blend  over the weaponizing of the terms cissexual and cisgender by a small minority of trans people turned into the viral perception that we're shutting down discussion of cis- terminology at The Blend.

That was the effect of what I did to try and keep civility at The Blend, but it was never the reason for why I did in shutting down the discussion of threads where those terms were being discussed.

Basically, it doesn't take more than one or two people to broadly sour a discussion in our threads. I perceive that some of my trans peers weaponized the cis terms to paint gay white men (GWM) with a broad brush -- they poisoned the well for me, and poisoned the reasonable, neutral use of those terms in our blog for quite awhile, I feel. So trans people, keep the two cis- terms, but know that a few of our trans peers have poisoned their use as neutral terms at The Blend, and you're likely going to get no where for awhile with many lesbian, gay, and bisexual people here at The Blend if you use those terms because the words have taken on added meaning as pointed weapons. Again, it only takes one or two voices to poison the well in a discussion, and that's happened here.

And, let's not let some GWM blenders off the hook. They responded to an article I wrote about a John Aravosis with a "tone argument" in response to trans folk. I don't think that "the tone argument" is a GWM-as-a-group problem, just as I don't think the weaponizing of cissexual and cisgender are a transgender community problem -- again,  it doesn't take more than one or two people to sour a discussion in our threads.

But folks, this is why broad-brush attacks on communities and subcommunities are so damaging -- this is why personal attacks and cross-identity community attacks are so damaging within the coalition of subcommunities of the broader lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community.

The frustrating thing is I went on a trip to meet Allyson Robinson for lunch on that last Friday of Pride Month -- after posting my Aravosis diary -- and came back to The Blend to see what I perceived was the morphing of those neutral cis- words into weapons, and "the tone argument" being used with what I perceived without reasonable challenge. I used a second post, entitled Enough Already to try and make the point that we're supposed to be friends around the coffee table here at Pam's House Blend, but then the thread was hijacked to again bring up how a blenderbelieved the terms cisgender and cissexual are neutral.

So, let me back up here, for a moment, and tell you about behind the scenes stuff that I usually wouldn't share with y'all. The individual who kept that cissexual and cisgender discussion in the Enough Already thread has been sent a warning e-letter three days earlier for a personal attack on another within The Blend's thread, where the commenter I perceived as trying to hijack my Enough Already thread said this:

Now now, Brandi

I'm sill cuter than you are, and I'm putting the lie to everything you just said, simply by existing.

Care to explain that one?

War is what they call it. I call it living.

Please read that comment above in light of the civility link we have had at the top of our blog for over a week:

This Blog is not a haven for trolls, threats, or people wishing to spam or harass...We have the right to edit, remove or deny access to content that is determined to be, in our sole discretion, unacceptable. Please respect the rights of others to be heard and to be respected. We welcome all viewpoints, but we do not welcome personal attacks on our users, in any form. The moderators of The Blog retain the right to ban any user from posting at The Blog for behavior deemed inappropriate.

And from a recent post about calming our baser instincts at The Blend, this comment on hijacking threads:

We baristas and Pam have been noticing a coarsening within the discussion threads of late. Frankly, when we see within discussion threads Ann Coulter again start being referred to as a tranny and as Mann Coulter, when we see in different threads where the acknowledged gender identities of trans people aren't respected, when in still another thread we see the term bitch used in a derogatory fashion, and when we see people hijack threads for flame wars, it's time again to remind people about what the character of this blog is supposed to be.

Off-topic discussions in our threads sometimes don't happen in a vacuum -- and it didn't happen in a vacuum here. Discussing the terms cissexual and cisgender in a thread on civility -- the Enough Already diary's thread -- was a big red flag for me. I saw the terms that a small number of trans people weaponized in the previous Aravosis thread being brought over for discussion to the new thread -- the new thread on civility -- by someone I just warned about a TOS violation related to civility not three days earlier.

Frankly, that's when I lost it. I wasn't in a calm place to start with, and I saw a thread on civility being hijacked in a way that just infuriated me -- In my mind, I saw the way that the discussion was about to turn.

Well, I slammed that blender publicly for discussing those cis- terms in the Enough Already thread -- I turned a moderation issue about trying to keep discussions civil among friends into a cis- terminology issue. Yes, the cis- terms were at the moderation issue's core, but it was less about the cis- terms directly than it was -- well, what I perceived as hijacking a thread about civility into one where recently contentious subject matter (and that subject matter included cis- terminology) was discussed. I should have made the public issue about hijacking a thread to discuss a recently contentious use of terminology rather than making it about terminology that had recently been used contentiously. I take full responsibility for the wrong way I shut down discussion in that thread; I also own that I still feel that the Enough Already civility thread was absolutely the wrong thread to have another cis- terminology discussion.

Of course, a flame war wouldn't be complete without more flaming. I banned the blender in question after she left a public message on my Facebook page regarding my comments in the Aravosis thread. Most of y'all didn't see that comment on my Facebook page because most of you never look at my Facebook page. It felt pretty searing though; I definitely feel that she just kept upping the ante.

And here, let me interject a reminder of what we aim to be at Pam's House Blend. We aim to be a virtual coffee house were friends gather to discuss issues, just like friends in a brick and mortar coffee house. If one of your brick an mortar coffee house friends went and sh*t on the front doorstep of one of the baristas at your brick and mortar coffee house in anger, that coffee house friend would likely not be welcome back at that brick and mortar coffee house. If you're looking for the analogy as to why the blender who appeared to be reasonably defending the use of the terms cisgender and cissexual at The Blend was banned from your virtual coffee shop -- well, there was much more to the story than what most of you saw occurring. What I perceived as the virtual sh*tting on my virtual front porch was just last straw that broke this camel's back.

So now, to retain civility to my lesbian, gay, and bisexual peers, I've lost my ability to use these two cis- terms as these were meant to be used to create awareness about privilege that visibly trans people don't have. The odd thing is that I lost my ability to use these words during the 40th anniversary weekend of the Stonewall Uprising, where I believed I saw the trans contribution to the Stonewall Uprising being neglected or overlooked.

Invisible WomanInstead of being able to comment on that perceived erasure; instead of being able to comment on the lunch I had with Allyson Robinson this past Friday; I was busy on the Stonewall Uprising 40th anniversary weekend reading through hundreds comments and sending warning letters to blenders for incivility, inappropriate language (which included one blender tossing the term "whore" at another blender), and community/subcommunity attacks.

But back to the cis- terms, does my anger and dropping from my vocabulary the two cis terms mean others can't use the terms in the neutral way to explain trans oppression as these were intended to be used? I hope not -- these should be good terms to describe privilege into the future.

But at least in the short term, I know I can't effectively use the terms here at The Blend, and I'd strongly recommend trans people stay away from those terms here at The Blend for awhile.  Frankly, the cis- words are just too emotionally charged here at The Blend right now for neutral use of the terms here in our diaries, or here in our threads. I take a portion, but not all, of the responsibility for how those terms have become emotionally charged here at Pam's House Blend.

However, I'm rightfully accused of shutting down the use of those terms is in a thread that I thought was aptly titled Enough Already, and in a follow on thread entitled Jumping Into The Deep End Of The Language Pool. I don't believe I was wrong to shut down the discussion of those terms in that thread, but I was wrong in how I did it.

Basically, I felt one of our blenders was hijacking a thread on civility to again contentiously discuss the use of those two cis- terms. I wanted to shut down that discussion in that thread as a moderation issue, and ended up overreaching in my response. I'm not sorry at all about shutting down that discussion in that thread, but I'm incredibly sorry for the way I did it.

My approach to how I moderated that thread mirrored "the tone argument." And of course, "the tone argument" of shutting down the discussion on that thread was wrongheaded. I took a moderation issue and mishandled it -- I made it seem like a terminology issue.

Kitty Bon-BonSo, I asked my kat Bon-Bon last night and this morning "How do I fix this?" Again she silently stared at me from her window perch.

In the past months, I've seen many of our threads at Pam's House Blend involving trans people or issues have seemed to turn into uncivil discussions -- discussions on trans people and issues devolving into personal attacks and community/subcommunity attacks. And this week on top of that, we're been bombed with comments by trans people creating new profiles -- using unrelated threads to say that we at Pam's House Blend have shut down trans voices. I deserve those bombs, but Pam and my fellow baristas don't.

I'm the one who made that moderation mistake; it wasn't Pam's fault, it was completely mine.

And, the sad thing I see in all this is that no one with any viewpoint on trans issues is really being heard because on trans issues because no one is really listening to anything anyone else says. All -- including me -- have just seemed to give in to burning anger, and seem now to be talking past each other.

I asked Bon-Bon what to do about all of this mess too, and again she just silently stared back at me from her window perch.

Y'know, Bon-Bon looked at me as she often does...in that where she appears to be hanging onto every word I say. But as we all know, she's a kat, and she really doesn't understand a single word I say. There's a metaphor in there somewhere, I'm sure.

My peer baristas and I have found that I haven't been able to effectively moderate the discussion at The Blend -- to navigate that narrow path between being civil and giving in to "the tone argument" -- that we strive for here at the Pam's House Blend virtual coffee house. Pam and I have asked people on both sides to calm down, and it seems that many of you blenders won't moderate yourselves. And at least on the discussion of the cis- terms, my approach to dealing with the issue has been way too heavy handed.

I feel that on this side of the myriad of gender and community divides, I gave into my "angry inch."

For those of you who've never seen the movie (or play) Hedwig And The Angry Inch, it's a story about a gay man on the "wrong" side of the Berlin Wall living with extreme anger -- he gave up his penis and became a woman in a botched sex change operation specifically to flee oppression, only to see the Berlin Wall fall less than a year later.

For me, I'm not a gay man, and I'm not angry for the same reasons Hedwig was angry. But that said, Hedwig faced the same frustrations of not fitting well into sexually dichotomous world, and facing the same hate of the other f-word. And too, Hedwig was being oppressed for somehow being visibly transgender, but always living openly as transgender even when her appearance wasn't giving her away as trans.

What little sexuality and "length" I ever had...well, I lost whatever I had in taking Estrodial and Spironolactone. This week, my genitalia are not now much more than the metaphor of "the angry inch." But just as Hedwig looked and saw no benefit to the anger in the video above, I sometimes share the anger about a lot in life that leaves me discriminated against, hated, and oppressed. But, that anger doesn't get me respect or the equality that I want when I yell, scream, and rail at those who don't want to extend respect or equality to me.

Because I'm open about being trans, by many I'm seen as a gay man; by many other as a "third gender" person; by still others as "Autumn" Sandeen, the fake woman; and by still others as capricious, angry, transgender activist who rose to prominence in the "blood lust" of covering the Angie Zapata Hate Crime Murder trial, I don't fully get to define myself. I chose to define myself as a transgender, transsexual, real woman -- but I know I'm defined in other terms by others.

And this week, I'm defined by appearing to close all discussions at The Blend that involve the terms cisgender and cissexual because those terms are being discussed. I know I've shut down discussions because of moderation issues, but when Lisa Harney of Questioning Transphobia essentially believes I was shutting down discussions related to the terms cissexual and cisgender as a "tone argument" -- I know I flubbed things horribly. The myriad of phone calls, IM chats, and emails from a number of transgender activists that Pam and I have both fielded since my visible flubbing on what she and I agreed were incivility and moderation issues...well, I know my flubbing of moderation issues went viral.

Today, when I'm feeling all of my "angry inch" in perceiving those particular gay white men and gay white lesbians who have used the "tone argument" at The Blend, as well feeling that "angry inch" against those particular trans peers for screeching with anger, hijacking threads, and being uncivil to many of us who are trans and non-trans alike -- I find myself at a loss.

Kitty Bon-BonBon-Bon, of course, has no answer for me but her blank stare. Twice today already she's nudged my elbow why I've sat writing this at the computer, demanding my attention-- demanding scratches on her crown. So many blenders and others have been demanding my attention of late, and I just don't have the energy to answer all the commentary and demands. There is no fixing this problem.

So, I've been slow to respond because I've taking a few days off to cool my anger, and to recharge. I've had a mani and a pedi; I'm going to take a long walk on a sandy beach; I'm going to go fishing in the woods that are just an hour away from my little apartment; and I'm going to spend some more quality time with Bon-Bon -- my ever quiet, but loving friend. I'm going to continue a very needed break.

Before my frustration and anger turns to hate, I want to again truly embrace what Martin Luther King Jr. stated:

I've seen too much hate to want to hate, myself, and every time I see it, I say to myself, hate is too great a burden to bear. Somehow we must be able to stand up against our most bitter opponents and say: "We shall match your capacity to inflict suffering by our capacity to endure suffering. We will meet your physical force with soul force. Do to us what you will and we will still love you.... But be assured that we'll wear you down by our capacity to suffer, and one day we will win our freedom. We will not only win freedom for ourselves; we will appeal to your heart and conscience that we will win you in the process, and our victory will be a double victory.

Frankly, I'm not there this week.

I've shed some tears within my frustration and anger this past week -- and said some words publicly and privately that I find I deeply regret. I'm well aware that apologies aren't going to be enough for the damage I've personally inflicted; I'm well aware I lost my own sense of self and my own civility in the frustration of repeatedly and fruitlessly asking that blenders treat each other civilly.

All of these things are going to be a hard for me to bear.

So, while I'm gone and recharging, please remember to that civility matters...

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.

--Martin Luther King Jr.

So true...it seems to have eaten me alive this past week.

.
***

(NOTE FROM AUTUMN: Wow. I went to the post at Questioning Transphobia, and as of this moment, there are 287 comments on the thread. Having stepped away from Pam's House Blend for two days in an attempt to recharge, I discovered that 1.) one of our blenders posted a comment comparig trans people to Nazis, and 2.) I'm a pretty hated trans person by other trans people at the moment.

In the small picture, to the now former blender who made the Nazi comparison -- Wow. Really? Wow. Exactly how much power do you thing trans people have in America? Do you think trans people have the power -- or the desire -- to kill millions of people? If you do -- Wow. In any case, that was such an unnecessary and over-the-top comment.

And in the bigger picture, take a read over at Questioning Transphobia, and you can see for yourself how hated and tainted a trans person I've become within my community. It's been quite a humiliating to be so chastized -- so raked over the coals, for sure. Especially true for the comment where I was compared to a house negro -- which would of course make Pam my "massah."

It's been so difficult for me to "get" that this all started from me criticizing a gay man for not first apologizing to trans people for saying that T people should not be part of his gay community -- when he used trans people to make a point about LGBT issues. I can see the process of how I became a pariah within the last five days within the trans community, but the bitterness and anger I've seen is something I'm having a hard time grappling with.

To those peers that might want to come to my defense -- please don't. My angry peers need to have their voices heard, and they need to be unfilted, and unchallenged.

Honestly, I don't know whether anyone here at this blog will want me to respond to the comments for this diary or not. Frankly, I was planning to go fishing today because I need some time off, but I think I need to stay home instead and pay attention to what my peers say here today. My taking the past two days off from the blog and try to recharge has apparently turned out to be a particularly bad plan, considering what has transpired within the aforementioned Questioning Transphobia thread, as well as here in our Enough Already thread.

If you want me to respond to your particular comment in this diary's thread, then please let me know within the thread -- I'll get to as many of the comments requesting reply as I can, and answer as honestly as I can. If you don't ask for a response, I'll assume you don't want a response.

Frankly, I fully expect to be pummelled.)


NOTE FROM PAM: It's not hard to see how far beyond the pale all of this has gone in these specific trans-related threads, but quite a few diary threads in general. Obviously if we've called for a civility day, there's a problem. Some of the responsibility of this has to be bourne by the readers, after all, that's ultimately why we are here now.

To remind readers, and inform newbies:

1) I don't read every thread.
2) I don't monitor comments very often at this point; I have a more-than-full-time offline job, and an actual life, plus I have to write the content you read.
3) Reader diaries that are promoted or written by baristas do not necessarily reflect my views; sometimes they are counter to my view and presented for open discussion and debate.

I should note that no one monitors Daily Kos or Pandagon at the level it has been done on the Blend; on Pandagon it's usually just for blatant right-wing troll removal and even then the bar is high. I don't even think it exists on DKos. The original goal was to make the Blend a safe space, not a 100% PC zone, but at this point it's a balance between being able to write content or sitting there trying to stop people who cannot tell the difference between honest debate and screaming epithets at one another at a personal level. We have over 8,300 registered users; just a couple of months ago we had 5,000.

Some of you may use this thread to respond to Autumn; I would  like to hear from people who want to problem-solve the issue of moderation, since that is the overarching issue.  We've obviously reached a tipping point in being able to moderate effectively (or fairly to some users).

So, here are some questions that you, the readers and the commenters, need to answer for me about this community space, and let's start with basics:

* Do you want comments? I personally like the interaction they provide, but it's an option to turn them off.

* If you want them on; do you want the Blend moderated or not? We can certainly let it be open like many blogs, completely free of editorial intervention.

* What about ratings? Should the feature remain or be turned off?

* Does the community want to fund baristas to sit in front of a computer 24/7 to be a hall monitor/bouncer? On a community blog, that would mean also monitoring the comments of the non-front-page blogs as well. This is madness; I can't imagine anyone voting for this option.

Assuming that one is off the table, then...

* If you want the Blend moderated, what is a realistic expectation of moderation?

* Do the ground rules for "offensive language" change -- get relaxed, since there's so much content?

* What is a reasonable turnaround time for a barista to address an offensive comment?

* How should an offensive comment reported? Via comment or email to the tips line? I personally think doing so in the comments is obviously proving ineffective; on the other hand my inbox is already full of emails I can't get to right away.

* How many warnings does one receive before receiving a suspension or trapdoor?

* How many reports on one comment constitute auto trapdoor/suspension?

* Are banned users ever allowed to return?

I'd prefer to talk it through and hear your suggestions than make a unilateral decisions without any input, but my-way-or-the-highway decision making is obviously an option. Thank you in advance for those who want to roll up your sleeves and work on this problem.  
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Tone arguments.
I read this entire lengthy post - and isn't all of it essentially a tone argument?  Isn't all of it essentially telling trans people to stop using words that (I'm sorry but, unreasonably) upset cis people?  Doesn't anyone see the problem with this?  

As a long-time lurker whose first post was one of the blank comments that Pam called "threadjacking" (nice terminology comparing trans people passively protesting the silencing of trans voices to hijackers, btw), I think one of the most frustrating things is that nasty comments directed at trans people generally and individual trans posters are NOT moderated with the same intensity as trans people who dare to use the term "cis," and never have been.  I've seen that myself as someone who has just read the comments here.    

It's hard for me, personally, to see this blog (and particularly its comments section) as a place that is welcoming and safe for trans people.  I don't see a commitment from Autumn, Pam, or any of the other moderators here to make it better.  I see more of the same.  


Tone Arguments
Please help me, and I say this without irony.

Is there something wrong with arguing that the "tone" of a comment can be inappropriate?

In other words, isn't it possible to fully accept what is being said as acceptable in an exchange of ideas, but disagree, or even exclude a comment because of the way in which it's being said?


[ Parent ]
You are right
I have a friend who has one method of communication - every interaction is a fight and he goes in on the attack. He has good things to say, but his tone tends to turn people off because there is never an attempt to listen or negotiate or be friendly.  

Stormie
Religious beliefs are not a basis upon which to affirm or deny civil rights.


[ Parent ]
Autumn explains in the intro
I don't want to give into "the tone argument" -- the argument that oppressors get to define what words the oppressed get to use, and get to say "I'd pay attention to you if your tone was better"

Frequently when oppressed groups object to how they're being treated they're accused of being nasty and unreasonable.  I don't personally think the "tone" is necessarily the point - maybe the person whose tone you don't like has a reason to be angry.  Or maybe you're reading their objections as anger or nastiness.  I think it needs to be used with caution.  


[ Parent ]
Sorry, I don't
Isn't all of it essentially telling trans people to stop using words that (I'm sorry but, unreasonably) upset cis people?  Doesn't anyone see the problem with this?

I don't see the problem, because it's the mirror of telling everyone else to stop using words that upset trans people. It's just basic courtesy to not use a word toward someone after they've said it upsets them.

The first time I met a woman who objected to my calling her a girl, I didn't understand it. If she'd lashed out at me, I still wouldn't understand it, I'd have dismissed her as a crank and moved on. Instead she explained, and I don't call women "girls" any more. I understand that it belittles adult women, that it's demeaning - even if it isn't intended to be. That it propagates a view of women as eternal children, to be cared for, but not listened to, or taken seriously.

I wrote previously that the word cisgendered has no emotional component for me. I don't particularly object to having it used toward me, but others do, and I definitely object to being told that I'll be called something whether I like it or not. My first - and usually final - reaction to that is to dig in my heels and say "the hell you will". That doesn't get either of us what we want. I want to learn more, and you want people like me to understand your position, your goals, and your needs. Cooperation and education are the only way I can see that happening.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing


[ Parent ]
What Alternative?
I know women that like being called Girl, a personal preferance for them.

But at least there are alternatives aren't there!

And there's a heap of terms that apply to you whether you like it or not.

Human for one.

Discussions of sexism require words like... sexism!

What alternative is there that puts Trans and the Cis-equivalent as equal? Cis does it but if people object what alternatives are there? Not-Trans is othering as far as I and a heap of other TG people are concerned.

And Cis still applies to me as I currently consider myself cis-sexual but Trans-gender!

It's not like complaints about words like 'tranny' or 'faggot' where polite and nice alternatives exist. What more valid option is there to Cis?


[ Parent ]
He's not suggesting an alternative, battybatty bats
he's not objecting to the term, at least not now.

I don't particularly object to having it used toward me, but others do, and I definitely object to being told that I'll be called something whether I like it or not. My first - and usually final - reaction to that is to dig in my heels and say "the hell you will".

And that's pretty much my attitude toward anyone.


[ Parent ]
I noticed
The point is that if the term is the term and there's no better term then thats what everyone is stuck with!

And there's lots of things he is called without anyone asking. If he's Cis then we can start with his being called He and him!
Then add man. Male. Human. Homo Sapiens Sapiens. There will be a truly massive host of descriptive terms that will apply, tall average or short.. terms of build, skin and eye and hair colour, personality type.... Where all these objected to also?

Where there are alternatives then a persons preferance and objections has meaning. Where there are none then all there can be until a better alternative is coined is an objection to the topic being discussed at all.


[ Parent ]
Most people here
call me some variation of my handle, but if you really hate that, you can call me Scott. That's my name IRL.

If you're talking to me, or about me, that's what I'd prefer. If you're talking about aggregate groups of people, and not singling anyone out, then you can use whatever word you choose. I'll decide whether I'm part of the group you're describing or not.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing


[ Parent ]
Ha! IRL!
Thank you!  I always say "In real life" and my friends ask me, "How is the Internet not real life?"  I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that does that.

[ Parent ]
Easy
It's fake life, hadn't you heard?

I always say that the "internet is made of PEOPLE".  Because, yanno, it is.  (They're squeezed through the tubes!)


[ Parent ]
Are you cisgender?
Okay, Scott, I'll ask you.

Are you cisgender?

http://kynn.com/


[ Parent ]
Yes
If I understand the question to mean "Were you born with male genitalia, and do you function as a male in your day-to-day life?", then yes.

And still, if you're speaking to me directly, or about me in particular to other people, I prefer you to use my name or my handle. It's polite. I'm a proper noun, not an adjective. For the record, I also don't like being referred to as "the gay guy down the hall", or "the bald guy down the hall", or "the short guy down the hall", or any of several other ways that, while perfectly accurate and are labels I don't particularly object to (especially since they're true), I consider impolite if used to speak to me or about me in particular.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing


[ Parent ]
Hi Scott.
How is Scott today?

I ask because I don't want Scott to suddenly think that use of adjectival phrasing implies that Scott is any less an individual, but since Scott is a person who is also homosexual, of some ethnic background that is in part at least not the same as myself, and possess a congruity of self that is markedly different from my own, I would say that Scott is possessed of particular privileges that are not possessed by me since Scott is not someone who lacks those privileges, even when there is an intersection between the privileges that Scott is lacking and that I lack as well.

So, given that particular aspect about Scott, It would be proper to say that Scott is possessed of cisgender privilege, and that it is the facing of this particular privilege that needs to be dealt with on the part of Scott, not on  the part of Kynn or Dyssonance.

All of which would be much easier to say by simply noting that you are a cisgender person and I am not.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
And in your case
I'm happy to have it, and if you'd like to drop by sometime, I'll be thrilled to wave it like a flag, while sticking out my tongue and saying "neener, neener, neener".

See? You're not the only one who can be childish.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing


[ Parent ]
Ah, but..the whole while I would, of course, flaunt my female privilege
and revel in it :D

Except on the phone.  Then I'd use male privilege because some times they just won't let a gal get stuff done the way a guy can.

Childish its not.  And you can't help but to wave it about and all that.  Indeed, it takes work and effort not to do so.

Privilege is not racism.

IT is not something to be ashamed of.

Its something to be aware of.  And use.

As for saying neener neener neener -- I'm afraid I do that already. :D

take care, Scott. I'm not welcome here, and it has nothing to do with you, but know that I always liked ya.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
It's a descriptor not a NAME!
I don't go by the name Transgender. My handle here is Battybattybats because BBB were my birth intials, Ba are the first two letters of my male birth name and Te was the same from the name chosen for me were I born female-bodied and I am a Goth and Bats are important animals to me and I've looked after orphaned bats.

So your own name wasn't going to be replaced with Cis.

Your point that you have a name is nonsensical.

This is just about a term that describes merely an aspect of you, one with many advantages that I as transgender don't have because of the different ways we are treated because of that descriptor! Nothing more than that.

So the next VITAL question is... where does your hyper-sensititvity come from?

Why do you suddenly feel when a descriptor of a class you belong to that makes visible unfair advantage you get and disadvantage you don't get that this somehow is an assault on your very identity? How can it threaten your name? It Can't! How can it threaten your identity? Why are you irreationally upset over this term and raising an irrational argument about it?

Take a moment to consider that carefully. Because it could provide ou a powerful insight.


[ Parent ]
Don't bother asking angry cis people what term to use
They are refusing to answer that question.

They want their privilege to remain invisible.

http://kynn.com/


[ Parent ]
Good afternoon, Kynn
Well, it's afternoon where I am.

[ Parent ]
= exact attitude that caused all this drama
I'm not against the terms. However, the notion that these terms are "neutral" is patently absurd. The very fact that every time this is brought up, bigger issues about majority privilege get immediately invoked along with it, proves this isn't simply a neutral term.

Question: Can you fierce proponents defend "cisgender" as a "neutral" term without accusing others of benefitting from some sort of social privilege and being in denial about it? Or being angry, ignorant and oblivious? Or launching any insult at all?

Can you?

I know I can describe someone as "white" without launching into a sermon about white privilege. I also know I could explain to them what white privilege is, and that it is a social reality, without resorting to childish behavior or hurting their feelings.

On top of it all, cisgender is not synonmous with cissexual, just like transgender is not the same as transsexual. So when you throw around the prefix "cis" on its own, you need to be more specific.

Cisgender and transgender are broad UMBRELLA TERMS that describe theoretical concepts dealing with large scale group dynamics. They are not labels to be applied to any individual. Transgender vaguely means "transgressing gender norms". Therefore its opposite, cisgender, should mean "conforming to gender norms."

Therefore, arguably, all LGBT people are "transgender" in that we all violate prevailing gender norms (although the norms themselves aren't cut-and-dry to begin with either).

Cisgender privilege certainly exists, but it's not a static characteristic an individual can possess at all times. Some people can access it more than others, and sometimes the same person can access it in certain situations but not in others.

Meanwhile, transsexual is usually understood in academic discourse to be more specific; it is meant to describe, in particular, the phenomenon of people being born as biologically one sex while having the mind or brain gender identity of the opposite gender.

***90% of the bitchy comments I am reading are completely failing to make this distinction.***

- Most gay people can be said to fall under "transgender" since we violate dominant gender norms simply by being attracted to the same gender.

- Depending on their gender expression/mannerisms, gay people can either benefit from cisgender privilege or be harmed by it. I am a fairly masculine male. Therefore I benefit, usually, from cisgender privilege. However men who are more effeminate will be perceived as transgender and be harmed by cisgender privilege. In social situations in which I am perceived as "not masculine enough", I will also be harmed by cisgender privilege.

- Anyone who experiences their brain gender identity as being aligned with their biological sex can be reasonably labeled cissexual. This, unlike cisgender, CAN be a neutral and scientific term that doesn't come attached to all kinds of other issues and judgments.

I am a masculine gay man. I am cissexual. I am transgender. In many social situations I benefit from cisgender privilege. In others, I am harmed by it.

Either way, we are all in the same boat.


[ Parent ]
C'mon thats simple!
People with bias who didn't realise they have bias or thought that their biased position was justified and neutral don't like their bias being highlighted! And so they get upset. Because they must cede the position of 'normal'.

And of course cis-privilege is variable! Just like a tanned white guy might not always get much white privilege compared to a pale white guy but still has heaps more than the really dark-skinned guy. Lots of privilege is variable and that doesn't invalidate the existence of 'white provilege'! And then you add Intersections of privilege/discrimination on top of that.

That Cis privilege comes in degrees like white-privilege and lots of other privileges do that doesn't invalidate it, it supports it!


[ Parent ]
But is it the term, or the existence of any term, that made him uncomfortable?
"The first time I met a woman who objected to my calling her a girl, I didn't understand it. If she'd lashed out at me, I still wouldn't understand it, I'd have dismissed her as a crank and moved on. Instead she explained, and I don't call women 'girls' any more."

Yup, and she didn't just say, "Don't call me 'girl'," did she?  Her explanation probably mentioned 'woman' or led you by the nose to it.

The objection to 'cis' that trans people objected to in turn did not say, "that's an uncomfortable term and i want you to use this other one instead."  Rather, it just said not to use the term, and by extension, the concept.  Since then, I've seen assertions that the very concept of 'cisgender' is a meaningless, made-up class -- not just claiming offense at one name for it, but trying to invalidate the entire idea.

Is it any wonder that so many trans people and allies dug in ourheels this time?  It was not, as far as we could tell from the start and as further evidenced by where things went later, an honest request to pick a less offensive term; it was a heavy-handed attempt at silencing trans people.


[ Parent ]
I can't answer for anyone else
I don't object to it, because it's just a word. If it means something to you, and you want to use it, I'm all right with that. My sole objection - the only one I've ever voiced, or even thought to myself - is when the argument turned from "you don't understand the word" to "I'll use this word whether you like it or not, because you're privileged". The unilateral decision, and the implication that its use was a form of punishment for privilege, was my objection, not the word.

There may be people here who object to the word for precisely the reasons some are pointing to - that they define themselves as normal, and anyone who isn't like them as abnormal. I don't know what to say about them, except they're wrong. The way the word normal is usually defined today simply doesn't exist. It's normal for me to be gay, just as it's normal for my little sister to be straight. It's normal for Autumn to be transgendered, just as it's normal for me to be cisgendered. And there's no value to be had, for any of us, by dividing us up into little groups and competing with each other. I can't, and wouldn't want to, defend anyone actually protecting their (dubious) higher status than another group, but it seems over the last several days there have been a lot of assumptions, and a lot of accusations, and way too few moments spent actually listening to and trying to understand each other.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing


[ Parent ]
But
Why do others object?  Many trans people are suggesting that people object to the term because they object to being placed on the same level as trans people.

It would be the same as supporting heterosexual people who object to that term because their sexuality is normal/the default, while other types of sexuality are deviant and need to be named.  


[ Parent ]
Well...
No, it really isn't the same.

When someone tells us to accept what we're told by cis people, it sounds like the same things that have been told to us in the past -- that their needs are paramount to ours in some fashion, and it's because we're defective and they're not.

It's systemic in our case, and not so in theirs -- at least not as much.

I'm perfectly willing to not use a term to directly refer to someone if they ask me not to, personally.  But that's the term I use in my head until I'm corrected otherwise, because that's the TERM for that.  Using something else is inexact, dissembling.

I'm not suggesting cis queer people don't have their own different issues -- merely that these lines aren't drawn where some people think they are.  I've been told to shut up because I was "really a man" or "not a real woman" by gays and lesbians alike.  It was okay to them -- I didn't count.  They were "men or women", and I was the freak, in their mind.

With a history like that, it's absolutely not the same at all.  And cis people don't realize this history exists -- but how else do we tell them?  We have to use this word.

It's a resistance I understand to the term -- it's borne of our occasional lashing out at the mass of people who erase, ignore, or point fingers at us every day combined with the general horror of someone who's got privilege trying to accept the idea.  But the word itself has a meaning, and that meaning is absolutely necessary for a discussion of trans issues in some meaningful way.


[ Parent ]
The recent explosion of censorship of language and ideas is killing the blend
And quite franky the damage may already be permanent.

I have encountered other blogs and groups who used a similar "heavy hand" to stifle controverial topics or respond to insults (both real and imagined) and in every single case where I encountered such tactics, I simply never went back to that site - ever again.

I didn't post a dramatic "swan song" or explain my reasons, I simply went away...and later, so did the site.

Make no mistake, the only reason there IS a PHB is because of the contributors - and the more strident and opinionated voices are the real driving force behind the success that PHB has experienced.

Limit discourse to only those voices who a 'vanilla', only those who march in lock step with the party line, and only those who do not offend anyone, and the Blend will be gone within a year.  

I have watched from the sidelines throughout this recent Pogrom (and I use that word intentionally) and have come quite close to leaving forever.  And I am one of the moderate middle of the roaders here.

What was a vibrant interchange of ideas and opinions has devolved into a cult of personality - reminding me of snitty teenage girls.

I have a teenage daughter and I get enough of that in my house.

Stop the banning, stop the censorship, stop acting as the internet language police, or turn off the Blend for good.

Fighting over percieved insults between people who are seemingly allied in wanting the same results is just plain stupid, and gives ammunition to the opposition.  

As long as this continues, the Blend is actually hurting the cause of equality -



Question:  What does an atheist do when they fall to the floor and start "speaking in tongues"?

Answer: Get a CAT scan.


Yep...
I agree completely...well said.

[ Parent ]
Pam and Autumn have to deal with a reality
and that reality is that there are people from all kinds f viewpoints on the Blend; Some Gay men who are still uncomfortable with a Lesbian presence in the LGBT movement, let alone a trans one, Lesbians who are the remnants of the second wave separatist movement, Trans inclusive people of all stripes, Transsexuals who want out of the TG unbrella, TG universalists, radicals, conservatives, gradualists and revolutionaries.

What is the chance that all of those people are going to get along all of the time?

Heck, even Dave and I, radicals cut largely from the same cloth, got into it last eve but as always were sure to make our piece before it went too far.

All in all, Pam, Autumn and the rest do  great job.
Autumn, put th computer down and step away from the monitor...relax a bit sis, and don't personalise the response. You know some of the lovely things that have been written about me

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


People uncomfortable with one another
It's all too true, Maura... and it's sad.  You'd think that GLBT's of all stripes could see the common struggle we have.

Transphobia = gender-based judgmental hatred.  ("How dare you go outside the manufactured binaries in your mind, your body, or both?")  Homophobia = gender-based judgmental hatred.  ("You're a woman, so you're 'supposed' to be physically and mentally drawn to men!")

Trans, gay, lesbian, and bisexual people are natural allies... Let's start acting that way.


[ Parent ]
Often times it seems
the four letters are only held together by the dictum of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." It's depressing.

Fetch my pearls, I need to clutch them!

[ Parent ]
At this time
I have no opinion. Perhaps because its soo early for me and Ihave not finished my first cup of coffee.

I just wanted to say, "what a cute little kitty!"  

Help defend equality, visit One Kalamazoo http://www.onekalamazoo.com/


Questions, answers, and statements
Comments: Leave them on. That's the only way discussion and education can happen.

Moderation: Yes. Both ways. Have a moderator, and posters have some moderation.

Ratings: Meh, don't care.

Moderator funding: where would the money come from? That's just the first logistical problem in a never-ending litany of problems.

Expectations: Vary. Some want a free for all, some want a "only thing I agree with" space. Ultimately, this space belongs to Pam.

Offensive language: demeaning language certainly should be off-limits. Swear words? Not so much, IMO.

Reporting: set up an inbox for complaints.

Warnings: depends on the nature of the transgression.

Trap-door: depends on the transgression.

Banned for life: only in very infrequent, very extreme cases. People learn, grow, and change. Policy must recognize that.

=================================================
Statements:

I'm sad that Autumn has lost a word she feels is useful and productive.

I understand male privilege. I have four sisters, and I was raised in Southern Utah. I was taught to expect my life to go in certain ways, including a job, a family, and responsibilities toward that family. My sisters were taught to expect a husband, children, cooking, sewing, and cleaning. After my youngest sister's divorce, I remember how shattered she was. Everything she'd been taught to expect and count on had dissolved, and what was left wasn't anything she'd been taught to get satisfaction from. A woman doesn't have a career, she holds a job until a suitable husband comes along. A woman's only true satisfaction in life comes from being a wife and mother. Without those, she's an empty cipher. My little sister paced back and forth in my backyard, more angry than I've ever seen her, demanding to know why she'd never been taught to have a career? Why wasn't she taught that she could be happy and complete without being someone else's property? She's better now, but that early conditioning will always be with her.

I partially understand white privilege. I was raised in a mostly white community. We had a reservation near town, and I grew up hearing about drunk, lazy Indians. My religion taught me that Native Americans were dark because they'd sinned against God, and their skin was a curse. It also taught me that African Americans were cursed, and that's why they couldn't hold the priesthood, or any position of authority within the church. If I applied for a job, I didn't have to be as educated, as talented, or as qualified as my fellow candidates, if I was the white candidate. No one would hire anyone who lived on the reservation, or rent a house in town to them, or give them a loan, or even socialize with them, because, well, they were all lazy, drunk Indians. Everybody knew that. When I was 20, the first black person moved into town. And - gasp - she was the wife in an interracial couple. If they'd known the new policeman they hired was married outside his race, he would never have been considered for the job. As it was, they only lasted six months before moving, and the town breathed a sigh of relief.
I struggle against what I learned every day. I question myself constantly, trying to reinforce who I'm trying to be, and suppress who I was raised to be. Some days I'm more successful than other days.

I'm just barely beginning to learn about (for lack of a better term) cis- privilege. It's all theoretical at this point, and I've probably got some key points wrong, and I don't trust my own judgment on it for a second, but I know it exists. The complete shape and scope of it escapes me, but I know it's there. What I very much need at this point is some guidance. Not lecturing, not scolding, not flaming, just guidance. Point out unquestioned assumptions that should be questioned. Forgive stupid mistakes, and understand it wasn't an intentional harm, just a stupid, thoughtless one. Several of my previous posts here are flashing through my head as I write this - things I wouldn't post today, but didn't have a qualm about when I posted them.

I'm not a person who wants to exclude people. I don't want to break my group off from that group over there, and draw some artificial line between us. I don't think that serves any useful purpose. Yes, I have my personal agenda, and I will do whatever I can to see that to completion, but I can adjust it. I can make it more inclusive. I can make it more fair. I just need to know where the adjustments have to be made.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing


Yeah, you and I are in about the same place.


[ Parent ]
Can I third this?
Busy, no time to read the contention, but...without comments this blog becomes a news feed.

All the power you need is the power to trapdoor those who intend to troll.  

But wait, there's more!


[ Parent ]
I'm right here with you -
gay, white, male - barely a minority according to some, but trying to learn and understand.

Unfortunately it's gotten to the point that I pretty much ignore any posts that seem to be trans related on the front page simply because they keep devolving in ways that seem like a very juvenile "oneupmanship" of some person or group over another.

It's a shame, because I feel the most of the people involved have things to share with the rest of us, education and understandings that we don't currently have - but as allies, we'd really like to know.

It sure was a helluva lot easier when we could just come in here and have a common bitch session about whatever wrongs BushCo was up to on a daily basis.

If someone calls me 'cis' - I don't care - simply because I'm not even sure enough of the term to know whether I should be insulted or feel complimented.  And the saddest part of that is that once or twice in different diaries when I asked - it just got lost in the flame wars.  Everyone got so caught up in proving their point of view as the right one, nobody bothered asking if any of the rest of us were learning

Sure seems like a pretty non-productive way to build allies and coalitions


[ Parent ]
Ah, an easy question to answer!
"If someone calls me 'cis' - I don't care - simply because I'm not even sure enough of the term to know whether I should be insulted or feel complimented."

Generally, neither, any more than being called brunet or blue-eyed or able-bodied or Anglophone.  It just means that you identify as the gender that matches the sex you were assigned at birth based on a) the initial appearance of your genitals or b) a surgeon's decision of which sex your ambiguous infant genitals would be easiest to 'correct' to, if you were born intersexed and never told.

It can be correct if that describes you, or incorrect if you're actually transgendered, but the word by itself is no more of a compliment or an insult than 'Russian-speaker', 'American', 'sighted', or 'electrician'.

OTOH, tone of voice can add meaning that is not inherent to the word.  If someone says it with a tone of relief, they may mean it as the kind of compliment that's really an insult to us trans folk.  If they say it with a sneer that suggests that merely being cis implies other, darker things, then they're probably pissed off about having been whacked over the head by somebody's cis privilege.  (Fairly so if it was you who hit them with the privilege stick; unfairly if it was somebody else and you're just a convenient target.)  In either case, it's not the word, it's the tone of voice and the whole sentence.

Similarly, 'American' can be a positive word to an American jingoist, a sneering slur to someone feeling oppressed by Americans or bigoted against us, and an absolutely neutral term 99% of the time.

So no, in general you should not feel insulted or complimented when somebody calls you 'cis'.  Unless you're not cis, in which case it's your trans-invisibility that should bother you or please you as the case may be, and you can correct the speaker or not, at your pleasure.


[ Parent ]
welcome back
I think that it was good to address the legitimacy of the term; I think that its not difficult to have that conflict between allowing free discourse and trying to create a space where no one is offended. Its not easy to draw the line and it can take stepping back a bit from the issue when in the center of the whole thing. Subjects where a GWM and his (Aravosis) anti-whole-community attitudes are being addressed can make other GWM's feel as though they are already the one being singled out for attack when no, just Aravosis and ones like himself are being addressed. Knowing you I think causing any community hurt was the last thing you intended and I hope others can move past it and learn from it, recognize the good that has come from PHB, and return to the work of creating a better community.

co-host of trans-ponder

Actually, I was wrong...the Blend is dead.
I just read all the links, and did a fairly comprehensive web search for recent posts elsewhere pertaining to the the Blend.

There is nothing but contempt anywhere -

RIP


Question:  What does an atheist do when they fall to the floor and start "speaking in tongues"?

Answer: Get a CAT scan.


You are using...
... a blunt instrument to measure life force.

Contempt is being expressed, that's for sure.

Contempt is being expressed for the whole LGBT movement all the time.  Does that mean it's dead?


[ Parent ]
The Blend is hardly dead
and the contempt is largely from people who object to either trans-friendliness or to radicalism in the LGBT community.
And the Blend embraces the Dallas principles, some other LGBT blogs have rejected them.

J'y suis, j'y reste


I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


[ Parent ]
contempt
Your observation is significant, indeed.   It is worthy of very serious consideration and I hope that it won't get overlooked in all of the hand-wringing over "cis" and whatnot.  How dreadful for "GLBT" to be linked  with "contempt."  Yet your conclusion must be an exaggeration, if for no other reason than your comment about contempt was not itself made in contempt.  

On the one hand, some characters of the Blend unashamedly excrete tons of contempt for everybody and everything that they dislike.  I imagine that these kids must be stewing in their own bile.  On the other hand, the Blend has been blessed with more than a few sparks of real class, of genial wit and of wisdom — If your web search didn't come across any of these, look again.


[ Parent ]
Weaponized against prejudices, not people,
Uh, hey, some of us were there when Aravosis publicly made the case that we [transgender people] don't belong in his cisgender gay-rights movement.
In that comment, the term cisgender wasn't used to explain privilege to people who didn't understand it, but instead used to angrily -- accusatorily -- pointing a finger at John Aravosis for being a gay white male who doesn't care about the civil rights of transgender people. It was that weaponized use of that cis- term that began the current Pam's House Blend debate over cisgender and cissexual terminology here at The Blend. When I've mentioned repeatedly that the two cis- terms have been weaponized at The Blend, this is the is starting point as to where I feel the term was weaponized against gay white men.

At some point when you are talking about the real-world politics of discrimination, you have to as the questions of who is discriminating against whom and for what reasons.

I don't see a problem with pointing out that there are many within the gay rights movement who see it as a movement for only cisgendered gays and lesbians. I saw it in the rhetoric surrounding ENDA, I see it in the open speculation regarding institutional complicity in the death of Lawrence King because they let him "cross-dress" in the classroom. And I see it in the way in which feminine men and butch women are scapegoated for anti-gay prejudice.

If we can't say that activists such as Aravosis or legislators such as Barney Frank are privileging cisgendered gays and lesbians, then we have a big problem. If we can't talk about who is discriminating against whom and to what ends within our community we have a big problem. To quote Martin Luther King:

Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

The prejudices that many of my fellow cisgender white queer men demonstrate in regards to trans and gender-variant people within our community disgusts me. Sometimes, I feel the personal target of that. The derail of those topics from a discussion of how little trust we might have for Aravosis or Frank given their relatively recent commitments to inclusion was a serious problem IMO.  


This is just what I was going to say
At some point when you are talking about the real-world politics of discrimination, you have to as the questions of who is discriminating against whom and for what reasons.

There is no way to identify the cissexual and/or cisgendered people who dislike transsexual and/or transgendered people and regard them as social and political nuisances that won't make someone feel uncomfortable. This is a fact of life. The cure is exactly the same as with the reality of white privilege, of male privilege, of able-bodied privilege, and so on down the road: acknowledge the privilege and see what you can do to reduce its power over those who lack it.

The key mistake was Autumn's rush to agree with Lane rather than telling him, "I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable, but the word is descriptive, and any other word would end up bugging you just as much because the thing it described is what's making you uncomfortable."

The key insight is this: experiencing one form of discrimination doesn't bar you from having another kind of privilege. White GLBTs can be racist; GBT men can be sexist; Ts can be as ableist as anyone else; and so on. And we have to be able to talk about this...but it appears that we won't here at PHB.  


[ Parent ]
In a nutshell
The key mistake was Autumn's rush to agree with Lane rather than telling him, "I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable, but the word is descriptive, and any other word would end up bugging you just as much because the thing it described is what's making you uncomfortable."

Yes, this, in a nutshell.


[ Parent ]
Just for the record:
That person whose use of the word "cis" offended Lane?

Was not me.

Because that happened before what Autumn falsely identifies as the start of the argument.

I just want to make that clear to everyone:  Despite Autumn's revisionist history, I was not the one whose usage Lane objected to, and I really really object to Autumn's transparent attempt to make me the whipping girl here.

http://kynn.com/


[ Parent ]
Oppressed people get angry at their oppressors!
It happens!

If I had a buck for every time a woman near me complained about men or when an Aboriginal, Islander, Chinese, Maori, Samoan, Tongan or Native American I knew complained about whites or a Gay or Lesbian or Bisexual complained about Straights or a disabled person complained about the abled and so on and so forth from a legitimate grievance of being oppressed and did so in a strongly angry way then I'd be a very rich Batty indeed!

The oppressed get angry! It happens! They have justification for it!

And even when I belonged (or was perceived to belong) to one of those citicised oppressor-groups even if I personally had not contributed to that oppression I at least realised that overall that group had done that injustice to this person and the person was legitimately angry. It's not the most constructive way of dealing with an issue by any means but justified anger twists and poisons inside if it has no outlet or redress.

Now unless we are going to ban the terms:
Man
Straight
Heterosexual (and all its derivatives)
White
Able-bodied
Christian
And all the other terms of privileged groups mentioned in justified anger then i fail to see why Cis of all words should be singled out for special treatment!

Double-standards are not ok. All the above words have been used in anger 'weoponised' to use Autumns term.

Now if someones releasing their anger wildly try talking them down a little and help them redirect that anger productively.. anger is the primary energy-source of activism after all. And look at their grievance to see if it's justified! Often it is! One need only look at the comparative suicide-rates, the murder-rates, the school-bullying-rates to see that the TG community has a massively valid grievance. Yes the GLB folk have a massive grievance too compared to the het folk (and plenty of TG folk are also GLB) but the TG community gets the worst of the hate and the least of the help.

Thats a legitimate grievance and a legitimate reason to be angry. And angry emotuons WILL result from it. If people don't like that then they could do more to reduce the injustice that causes the anger rather than complain that people treated badly get emotional.


missing the point
This shouldn't be a discussion about general moderation, because the issue that caused it isn't.

Trans people here are being moderated for using basic decentering language, or responding with anger to people who'd very happily throw us under the bus.

You want credibility? Start behaving like Feministe's mods. Transphobes, racists, et al, get shown the door as soon as a mod spots them, and those they oppress can speak honestly without fear of being shut down in a tone argument.

This is a safe space for cis gay people to make ignorant comments, or to whine about being called on their cis privilege. But when a comment as basic as (angrily) pointing out that John Aravois defines his gay-rights movement as being a cisgender one is described as "weaponising" and its author threatened with banning, it sure as heck isn't a safe space for trans people. It's the sort of double standard I'd expect from people who don't even pretend to be trans allies, so acting stunned when it damages your credibility seems to me to be a bit ridiculous.


I was there too.
"In that comment, the term cisgender wasn't used to explain privilege to people who didn't understand it, but instead used to angrily -- accusatorily -- pointing a finger at John Aravosis for being a gay white male who doesn't care about the civil rights of transgender people."

John did say those things.  And people were rightfully upset with him.  And they rightfully pointed out that his perception that he was better off with out others was the primary factor at play.  

Namely, that his privilege as a cisgendered white man was leaving him unable to see the realities of other queer communities.

People don't need my permission to point out my white, male, or class privilege.  And unless transpeople (and allies) are able to continue to describe what's going on, the Blend is making a decisive and hurtful stand with those in power.

Summer and Pam, I'm dissapointed and hurt by this new course you're plotting.  Consider this my last post.


Wow
I'm not even sure what I want to say beyond offering hugs and thanks to Autumn (and Pam) for putting yourself in the middle of this.

Lots of thoughts and ideas have been churning in my mind over the past few days.

It came down to this, though: I don't have enough time or energy to fight here on the Blend, but I'm okay with using those resources for civil discussion.


Civility
Thanks to Pam and Autumn (among others?) for moderating the discussions here at the Blend.  It's a tough, thankless, but enormously important job.

What's missing from the commentary of most of those objecting to the moderation is any discussion of what is lost when forums degenerate into name calling and metaphoric screaming at each other.

Forums are not just for venting, they are for education.

Education is a two way street, meaning, for example, that Autumn can teach me something, and I can hope to return the favour.

Venting is a one way forum, where I say whatever the f*ck I like, any f*cking way I want to, to satisfy whatever motivations move me at the moment.

People will disengage if they can't put ideas out there without getting stomped on.  Not sure if that's true?  Look for the threads where respectful disagreement and discussion takes place.  Can't find them?  Wonder why?  How about the threads where someone acknowledges that they were wrong, or apologizes for misunderstanding something, or thanks somebody for enlightening them.  Shouldn't that be happening regularly?

Free speech doesn't mean freedom to come to Pam and Autumn's place of business and treat it like it's our own.  It's not.  Those who want to treat it that way are free to create their own place of business, and then treat it like it's their own.

If there is a reason that ideas can't be expressed in a civil way, please let's hear it (expressed in a civil way).  Otherwise, we should be able to put ideas out there and talk about them in a civil way.

That's one of the things that should differentiate this place from wingnut forums.


I appreciate all of the barista's hard work
Pam, Autumn, and all of the other baristas--I appreciate your hard work at making this 'virtual coffeehouse' a welcoming environment.  Autumn, you may have mis-handled the follow-up posting, but I think your instincts were correct in closing down threads that were devolving into flame wars.  Don't be so hard on yourself.  Everyone makes mistakes. :)

To address Pam's questions:

Comments--I like being able to comment on threads and discuss things.  Sometimes that discussion has clarified issues for me and helped me support or change positions on those issues.  

Moderation--I do think the threads should be moderated to keep it civil.  I once managed a yahoo group, and had a heckuva time keeping the trolls away and the threads civil.  

Ratings--I do like the ratings system, but I might post a "definition of ratings" in the TOS or in a thread similar to the thread on civility (if it's not there already.)

Moderation expectations--With my experiences being a moderator elswhere and -when, I think the moderation you currently have is just fine.  The only way to change the system would be to fund a 24/7 moderator, which would then require possibly paid subscriptions or other methods that would probably sour things more.

Offensive language--With the depth and breadth of content and the types of discussion here, perhaps it should be a "Supreme Court pornography" definition: we'll know it when we see it.

Turnaround time-- 48-72 hours.  That allows for a comment/post on Monday, an allegedly offensive reply on Tuesday, and an investigation on Wednesday for instance.  I would rather err on the side of liberality--letting some offensive content pass by and/or stay up for a bit--than to stifle healthy discussion.

Flagging offensive messages--Rather than relying on reporting via comments or email, does Soapblox have a 'flag this post' feature?  Then when a post has been flagged a certain number of times, the baristas get a notification and the content can be investigated.  

As far as banning/suspension/trapdoors--I would have a 'Three strikes' rule.  Three warnings, then a couple of weeks suspension.  Then said user is allowed back, but on probation.  If they violate the TOS again, a longer suspension.  Finally, permanent banning if it happens the third time.

Thanks for all the wonderful work you do!


*sigh*

To quote an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, "It's like watching your mouth trip and fall down the stairs."

You still refuse to make acknowledgements that have been laid bare with your behavior. Seriously. This is it? Accuse everyone full of justifiable anger over your behavior of having 'hate'?

What part of the whole 'pointing out a couple of statements to justify your behavior thing' are you not understanding?

You sit by silently while your enforcers (you call them peers) drive out people that disagree with you on T matters, and then yank the lever claiming 'incivility' when your enforcers fail.

Things go boom. Insert emotional plea with Famous Quotes. This isn't even close to what some people were wanting.

It's why you continue ignoring emails and posts that point out your enforcer's behavior. They're doing your 'dirty work'.

Telling somebody to 'fuck off' is pretty much grounds for a slap down in any forum i've ever participated in, so when you deliberately ignored it when it was pointed out to you, i wasn't sure if i was free to respond to your enforcer (peer) in kind.

They spend such large amounts of post time praising you, i thought maybe that it was some sort of ticket to acting like an ass and getting away with it.

Or was having you effectively declare me a 'classic transsexual' what marked me as a free target? i tried straightening it out. It could have been done in any one of the emails you ignored. You would have learned i'm not post-op, and i think HBS is junk science.

But while we're on it, are 'they' not allowed to post here?  Pam stated she would like 'some' of us to return to future discussions. Who are the 'right' people you want to allow here? Is rapid posting, ALL CAPPING and have 'fuck off' on speed dial preferred? As apposed to sincerely articulated disagreements?

Or just the whole praise-and-agree 24/7 thing?

It sent me into a spiral. Want to participate. Can't trust the police officer in charge.

Most of Pam's questions have only one real answer. i'm not sure what the point of asking most of them even was.

We don't need more watchmen. We need someone watching the watchman we already have. It's that simple. All the heart-tugging in the world won't mask her real agenda at this point.

Pictures of your cat?

Seriously?

Are you talking about what it is you know, or just repeating what it was you heard?

Grace Slick

www.anonymous-t-girl.blogspot.com


I needed to a statement in here that said you definitely...

...wanted a response. When I first saw the questions, I assumed you were asking rhetorical questions; however, your note below tells me otherwise now, so now I'm responding.

Autumn, Louise, Lurleen, and I can't be everywhere, monitoring everything. The routine, such as it is, has been piecemeal, as we discover inappropriate comments (a very subjective exercise, as we know all too well), or when they have been brought to our attention.

...People really do want to believe we're tethered to computers staring at threads all the time, I have no earthly idea why, and are ready to charge that we are purposely "letting someone get away with it.".

I'm not sure who the enforcer is that you are referring to. To me, it's an unclear reference I don't understand.

Yes, telling people to "fuck off" would have been  unacceptable before the reboot. Again, I must have missed that email...currently I'm sorry to say I have 3000 plus emails in my inbox today. I imagine that in the future emails send to the tips e-addy with a "TOS Issue" in the subject line would get our attention -- although we'll do nothing about moderation this week, except:

* The exceptions:
-- diaries created for spamming (we have some dolts who sign up to promote a product, not write a discussion post)
-- direct physical threats between commenters, or publishing of private information.

Who will be the watchmens's watchmen you envision? Seriously, no clue. Doesn't sound very grass roots though.

I apologize for misidentifying you. It's wrong to mislabel people, and apparently I did it to you in guessing or assuming you were a classic transsexual when you were not. Seriously, you have my apologies for f*cking that up.

And lastly, Bon-Bon is my friend. Seriously. I do all that talking to my kat that I say I do. I don't have a GF, BF, or QF in my life, so the kat fills in a surrogate significant other for me. If I has and SO to talk to, you'd have heard his, her, or hir responses...but my friend is a Kat.

As to why the pics of the kat, well, the blog was long and without graphics -- which meant visually thin. I added what I had file pics of, which included the kat in question. Don't like seeing Bon-Bon? Sorry -- she came with my write up to give the post some visual depth. My apologies for irritating you with those pics. However, some in this thread positively commented on seeing the Kat, so as life goes, we can't satisfy everyone.

Pam did the final edit -- she agreed with the kat pics too. So, we ran with 'em.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
Visually thin...?

Don't like seeing Bon-Bon? Sorry -- she came with my write up to give the post some visual depth.

What exactly was the point of the pitchfork?

It's pronounced "Keeva."


[ Parent ]
my preference is for the Blend to not turn into Shakesville.
In other words, allowing for the end of the normal distribution everybody hates--the drive-by trolls--I'd like to see efforts at civility all around, while leaving people free to discuss and offer opinions that may not be shared by everyone. I'd prefer not to see the site devolve into the Pythonesque, self-flagellating exercise in demonstrating who's the most ashamed of their privilege that you see at Shakesville. Recognizing your privilege and trying to rise above it? Good. Dramatic posturing over your sudden epiphany that you've been receiving 5'10" privilege or cat-preferring privilege or Mac privilege and oh goddess I'll try to do better in the future? Eh, not so much.

Discussing emotionally loaded, painful subjects is probably going to leave at least a few people feeling wounded. If you're hurt, say so. Some will understand why and change their discourse, and others won't give a shit. There are no completely "safe" public spaces on the web, and the ones that try to be the safest are locked in the continual spiral of offensive post-offensive response-blogmistress threatening to quit-loyal posters declaring their undying allegiance-everyone posting on eggshells for two days-offensive post...

Reason and moderation. Boot the chronic assholes-for-the-sake-of-being-assholes, and encourage people to look at their posts through the lenses of other readers before posting. Heavy-handed policing isn't worth the headache.


Autumn, read your email from me.
and if you want to post it, quote it, or keep it to your self, fine.

Just do not ignore it.

Maura

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


I like the blend. A lot.
When the "N" word (Nazi, not the other one) is used, the poster has gone over the line unless it is a response to an article about Hitler and National Socialism. Posts that simply name call - I am thinking specifically of the posts on Ann Coulter - are over the line. They are noise, static, empty content that adds nothing to the discussion.

If a comment does not engage the stated ideas or positions of the other person by responding with something of substance, then the comment does not contribute.

A while back I saw a neighbor with three identical bumper stickers on her car (right and left bumper and top of the window)that said, "Get Bush a blow job so he can be impeached." I pointed to her car and said, "Those are great." She started to proudly respond and I added, "Of course, for it to work we would have to get him to have multiple affairs, be charged in civil court with sexual assualt, get him to lie under oath, get his law license suspended, get his right to try a case in the Supreme Court taken away, get him charged and fined in Federal Courth with Purjury..." She inturpted me and with the cogent argument of calling me a "fucking Nazi." Her whole position was a bumper sticker with no content.

SOME OF THE QUESTIONS:

Ratings? Who cares. I would prefer an "offensive post" button that members could hit. After "x" number of hits, the post would be bounced to a moderator to look at - that way a human eye can seperate "offensive" with "unpopular ideas."

"Nazi" and a few other terms should generate an automatic final warning. Ditto with personal attacks.



Stormie
Religious beliefs are not a basis upon which to affirm or deny civil rights.


I like your "offensive post" idea
The ratings system is too complicated, and some people seem to use it as another form of attack.

[ Parent ]
Some moderation is necessary
I wouldn't be much interested in the Blend if comments were turned off.  Hearing a variety of opinions and reactions on any one topic is far more enlightening than just reading one person's view.

I do think moderation is needed, though, because I stop going to forums where the comments are nothing but people attacking each other.  Personal attacks do shut down constructive discussion.  Occasionally two people will get into a snit with each other, and that's to be expected.  But if someone's whole purpose in commenting is to make trouble, they should eventually be removed.

It's not good to make generalizations like the idea that we should just avoid cis terminology because it will upset people.  Just about anything you say will upset someone, and it isn't reasonable to expect baristas to patrol 24/7.  I say give people the benefit of the doubt, and only ban them when you see that they are repeatedly and intentionally stirring up trouble.

I love the pictures of Bon-Bon.  She's adorable.


Banning words
Hmmm. I think that banning cis from the debate was a bad call. I'd never heard of cis before reading this post, but I think it's a good word. Decentering the language is the right approach. The word isn't a weapon. Except for certain slurs (and cis clearly isn't a slur), no single word is a weapon; only complete thoughts can be. No one should be compelled to use cisgendered if they want to refer to themselves or others as non-transgendered or anything else, but no one should be prevented from using the term either.

That's nothing against anyone in particular, especially Autumn -- we all make bad calls -- and a short and simple apology and correction/clarification should fix it.

The "tone argument" debate is an entirely different issue, I think. On the one hand, everyone should be civil (and moderators or community members are morally entitled to enforce civility), but on the other hand, everyone deserves rights whether or not they act civilly. The reason tone arguments are so offensive is because they suggest that because someone who acts like a jerk generally isn't advancing his cause (which I am willing to believe is usually true), he deserves not to have his cause advanced -- and that's a vicious and immoral thing to suggest.

In this case, I think moderators are totally justified in banning people who say nasty things about trans or cis people or indeed who make personal insults of any kind. But use of the word cis does by itself mean that that has occurred any more than use of the word trans.


My Experience and Thoughts
When I first came to the blend quite some time ago I ended up caught in a massive argument that raged for weeks and months across a number of pages.

Because I wouldn't put up with all non-binary transgender people being repeatedly called mentally-ill fetishists, blamed for all the transphobia in the world and labeleed a danger to children and to women.

I got called quite a few nasty things for this.

And yet some people I argued with have eventually become allies.. others have been banned (and i hope one day change their minds on the subject).

Discussing controvertial topics is vital. It's needed for people to learn.

Allowing the oppressed to stand up for themselves is also vital. If the privileged feel unconfortable with it being called out their suppossed to! Antiseptic stings! They should never be protected from that discomfort, eased into it at best and thats all. When there was desegregation on race and sex there was discomfort too. People had to endure that discomfort to get over it. If they were protected from that discomfort nothing would change or improve.

Sure when someone is making a harmful generalisation like 'all cis people are hateful to TGs' then the person making the comments needs to be reminded to be more accurate like saying 'Cis-society marginalises and supports hate of TG people' which would be accurate. Not every cis-person does that but the society does.

Thus far the examples used of Cis being weaponised pales compared to the claim, made here all too often during my time here, that allowing TG people to use the bathroom will harm women and children. Or the claim that crossdressers are all mentally ill fetishists. Oh and I almost forgot all the Anti-Goth and Emo stuff too!

That a few comments using the term Cis are seen as such a disaster is utterly unfair to the feellings and needs of the transgender community! Where was all the massive outrage when I was being called a freak repeatedly?

When that statement was made against the term Cis I was already in the middle of writing my own defence of the word when the ban on defence of it statement was made!

Because its an important word! A neccessary word! And fine if anyone comes up with a better one (that does not other me! Non-Trans is sure not equal, it others me!) thats fair and people find comfortable with than by all means, but we need some word to describe cis-privilege. And shutting down the defence of that word hurt me deeply emotionally.

And it further demonised the word by preventing it from being reinforced as a nuetral term! By reacting this way the loading of the term is magnified not reduced! And there is no way it's been used as hostilely as plenty of words used here every day.

If the comments on Transgender issues often fall apart there may be some reasons for that... and I suggest the problem isn't the term Cis.

But I believe in trying to reach people, in educating them, in building bridges. And I also believe in helping everyone make up for mistakes. Theres a heap of anger in the TG community. They've got good reason for that. They are sick of being derided, comdemned, hated, ridiculed, laughed at, mocked, excluded, sacrificed, ignored, sidelined and having to explain the same things over and over and over and over and over till they get so sick of it all they crawl under the doona if they are lucky enough to own one and cry and cry and leave the net for months at a time. So the over-reaction on this issue when there is so much hostility they face every day is just another 'kicking the dog when it's down'.

I think this can be rescued... the way the radio show and their transphobic remarks was handled! And you got a lot of respect from for your handling of that Autumn!

To be honest the two comments claimed as weaponised don't read that way to me at all! "Here is main point for Aravosis and all other cisgendered, transbigoted privileged assholes" That says that that person is a cisgendered transbigoted asshole and it says that others exist. It doesn't say that ever cisgender person is a transbigoted asshole! Just as saying that there are white swans does not mean that all swans are white!

Note: I know little of the person discussed, I am merely reading the comments as they seem to be written.

And "Uh, hey, some of us were there when Aravosis publicly made the case that we [transgender people] don't belong in his cisgender gay-rights movement." That only says that this person excludes TG people, it does not judge the entire cisgender gay population.. only 'his' movement.. his view of the movement and the version for which he was acting and speaking. Where Orson Welles character says "not your world" to the survivor he met near the end of the infamous war of the worlds radio broadcast he sure isn't judging the world, just the persons plans for it.

I think these comments were missread! I do not think they were generalising in themselves (maybe thats not the case in full context of them though but reading them now they do not seem to condemn all cisgender people at all!) but were making statements about a person and many of the oppressive group to which they belong. Like saying 'male chauvenist pig' did not refer to all men as chauvenists and pigs or refer to all pigs as being male for that matter!

I think the time might have come for the Blend to Increase it's discussion of Cis Privilege, not reduce it, to Increase it's discussion of TG issues too. To invite prominant TG thinkers and activists to provide more content to the blend and to make sure it's high-profile and a focus.

This hasn't just hurt the community, it's brought existing hurt of cis privilege and double standards out into the open. Use this opportunity to do more to fix that, not complain that hurt exists and the whipped are thin-skinned.


I don't mind increasing the discussion
of the term (especially since I'm now Mr. Privileged Cisgender Asshole). I had to work on that one. :)

Just because links are provided either in a comment thread or in a story, though, doesn't necessarily mean that anyone reads them.

In a sense, I think there was a liitle bit of an assumption that the term was understood and it really isn't, by and large


[ Parent ]
Each person must hold some responsibility for their education
Seriously every TG person cannot post a detailed explanation of the term everytime they post! Let alone a long list of cis-privileges both cisgender in one column and cissexual the other.

Every yer there are new terms! Scientific ones, slang ones and so-on. People manage pretty well in getting used to them. You see one you don't understand and you look it up. Not so hard surely? People are still getting used to the term twitter for example. And I now can't use the term twitterpating anynore without people missunderstanding me now because the old ter is swallowed by the new.

Whether it's twitter or podcast or Cis there are always new terms!

So it makes no difference that a term is new or has yet to saturate the media and community yet. And if theres a link and you don't read it whose fault is it if you don't have the knowledge the link contained? Why you of course and you alone.

Actually one of the common complaints of TG people is that often when they have a discussion of TG issues open to the general public online some cis folks come in and derail often important discussions by demanding a personal explanation of Transgender in all it's minutia and often debating much of it. Can you imagine how annoying that must be? Especially when even wiki would sufficiently answer the persons questions.

That too is a part of cis privilege don't you see? The demanding of the victimised and oppressed and marginalised and excluded group that they explain and justify themselves to you when you don't have to do that to them as cisgender is already everywhere, universally understood and filling society and the mdeia so much you don't think about it at all but accept unconciously it as the way everything just is.


[ Parent ]
But it does make a difference
for example, if a trans person is directly implicating Mr. Privileged Asshole that I am in every single injustice that has ever happened to transfolk (as happened at QT last night).

I don't do that with white people (though I know black people that do). When a specific issue of white privilege arises in a particular instance, I sit down and at least try to explain. Sometimes I communicate well, sometimes I don't, sometimes a person gets it, sometimes they don't, sometimes they don't give a rat's ass (in which case I just move on).

And while I did feel a bit of vitriol being directed at my clueless ass at QT last night, there were others that were more restrained that took the time to explain ( in a tone that still let me know that I was a bit of a cisprivileged asshole) and now I know a little bit better.

I don't know perfectly; I don't know anything perfectly. But everyone has different learning curves, I guess.  


[ Parent ]
At what cost?
Sure speaking to a TG person and asking to be educated will work better like any one-on-one learning is better.

But as your literate enough to use the net you still could have gleaned most of it from some brief research without putting the burden on others.

If our time is totally filled with nothing but one-on-one educating we wont be able to do anything else. And it's not like we are getting paid for it whereas if you bought a book on it written by a TG person they'd at least get some royalties.

All-too-often important discussions of tg issues on a deep level get dragged back to just providing basic education to someone too lazy to look it up!

That it works has nothing to do with the cost that many pay for your privilege to swan in and demand to be educated.

Now luckily for you I don't mind personally doing that education :) But I see the cost others pay for it and so its important that one of the things that privileged communities as a whole need to learn is that they can't demand the oppressed just drop everything and teach them personally.

Now feel free to contact me directly or on my own little blog if you have questions I might be able to answer that would be off-topic for this discussion here so it doesn't become an object example of the trans-101-derailing.

But perhaps whats really needed is a community-wide education.


[ Parent ]
Not demanding to be educated at all at this point
And, as you said, the information is out there and i will read it and study it. Several people at QT actually offered to help and I appreciated.

But explain this to me. What is the cost that many in the trans communities pay for "my privilege?"


[ Parent ]
Costs
Which one?
As there are many.

In the context of my post specifically it is the regular derailment of TG issues on TG blogs with getting all sidetracked by Cis-concerns and basic education. Thats a cost in time, in effort, in loss of the original discussion. And it hapens plenty frequently. So much so that many TGs cannot have a TG-centred discussion unless they confine themselves to small backwaters because cis-concerns end up hijecking the discussions.

Essentially it becomes all about the Cis-person, the cis-persons needs, the cis-persons feellings.

And TG issues get filtered through the screen of how it will effect cis-people.

Example: Because Cis-people may find it uncomfortable to share a public toilet with a TG person TG-people are forced to justify why they should have access to public toilets at all. The real need of the TG people and their measured risk of violence (there have been a number of assaults on TG people in public toilets) is compared to an imagined risk to Cis people (after 30 years of some places allowing TG people to use the bathroom that matches their presentation there has been no increase in danger to cis-people. There is a greater risk from other cis-people than from TGs going by the data!) and to the cis-peoples comfort (where their squeemishness is more important than the TGs safety and basic access to the outside world).

Not only does that make a TG-safety and basic-amenities issue about cis-concerns it also underlines how TG people exist solely by the sufferance of cis people, without recognised equality as humans, who must beg or argue and fight snd educate till blue in the face just to get basic things everyone else takes for granted.

Just having to do that has a massive emotional and psychological cost. It's othering in itself, marginalising and dehumanising.


[ Parent ]
But that is the same thing the rest of us have to do on LGB issues.
We are constantly being told we NEED to educate people on this, we need to have more personal discussions because when people know us, it changes their views.  Isn't that the same for all segments of the LGBT community?

Just like the heterosexuals who need educating, and PERSONAL education, we-who know less about a subject matter, are less likely to use terms and phrases and whatnot by knowing people.  Why shouldn't you be required to do the same educating as the rest of us?  And the reticence of educating others does YOU harm, it certainly does me no harm if people are unwilling to talk in a reasonable fashion without all the assumptions of this privileged or that, without seeing or knowing to whom they are typing.  None of us have it easy in regards to how others perceive us, and the heterosexual community as a whole does not see any difference between you and me.  Yes, it is tiresome and time consuming, but really, what other choice do any of us have?

One of the problems I see with the term was that on a blog, those using it cannot tell what the status of the person they are describing with the term REALLY are.  You cannot tell from the user name, or even the L or G or T or B if a person is cis or not.  That should be considered in online conversations.  

And just in this threasd I see that there is a T who identifies with CIS.  Now, from all explanations previously, that identification does not make sense.

 

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY


[ Parent ]
Cissexual =/= Cisgender
Transsexual and transgender don't mean the same thing.

It's very possible to be, for example, transgender and cissexual.

http://kynn.com/


[ Parent ]
Some privilege is based on visibility
This one is pretty clear if you think about it. Let me explain.

A clearly androgynous person is going to easilly suffer discrimination based on gender-non-conformity right?

Well a closeted crossdresser will avoid that! Now they will still suffer, they will suffer from the closeting, from internalising the hostility they see others face and the like, but they will get advantages in employment and education and reduced risk of being bashed or murdered so long as they stay in the closet.

If the same crossdresser comes out or expresses too much femininity publicly those advantages start falling away.

A transsexual who is stealth, who passes every day, will have different advantages to the androgynous person, also avoiding the appearance-based judgements, but will have healthcare issues that the Androgynous person does not.

This is because the Androgynous person is Cissexual but Transgender. And to the public eye the stealth TS is Cisgender. The crossdresser to the public eye so long as they are closeted and hide well enough is seen to be cisgender too.

If the crossdresser is sufficiently effeminate anyway, like I was, they will get less cisgender privilege but still more than if they were out.

And a TS who does not pass, no matter how cisgender they feel inside will still suffer from discrimination based on the gender-non-conformity of their appearance. Because while they have a Cisgender identity and a transsexual body their appearance is perceived as Trans anyway so they don't get any or much Cis privilege.


[ Parent ]
All true.
Very well explained, batty.


[ Parent ]
The cost of this blow-up...
...as I explained (and other people explained) on QT is that, gee, thanks angry cis men -- now there's one less blog that trans people can feel safe talking about our issues.

You and others -- with assist from Pam and Autumn -- have transformed this from an LGBT blog to an LGB blog.

Yeah, there was no cost to you. But quit fucking shitting all over the cost you've forced us to pay.

Look at what upset trans people are saying, look at how our view of PHB has changed thanks to this. That disappointment and pain is the price tag of your privilege.

http://kynn.com/


[ Parent ]
Fair enough
If our time is totally filled with nothing but one-on-one educating we wont be able to do anything else. And it's not like we are getting paid for it whereas if you bought a book on it written by a TG person they'd at least get some royalties.

I've read several threads and various posts here and at other places where the same book can be lauded and pilloried. The same viewpoint can be esteemed and vilified. How do I know which to believe without asking someone?

And, you know, sometimes life isn't fair. Sometimes life blows chunks. I don't like that I have to explain my gayness, I don't like that I always have to respond to stereotypes with gracious understanding for the clueless (not the willfully ignorant, then it's open season). I don't like that I can be bopping along, having a perfectly great day, and suddenly I have to stop and play Tutor To The Brain Dead. That's one of the prices we pay for being a minority. No, it's not fair, but it is. When some guy starts pissing and moaning that women get all the choices when it comes to childbirth, and he has none, I tell him "Welcome to Biology 101". In this case, for both you and me, the only practical and realistic answer has to be "Welcome to Psychology 101".

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing


[ Parent ]
Peoples views differ too
You wont get a better answer from one person than from one book.

Both will be from individual points of view. And getting multiple sources will be needed either way. But if you try looking up a few articles first, lurking on a blog or forum a little etc you'd be surprised what you pick up and then when you do ask a question it will be from a more informed level. So you can skip some of the worst mistakes that way and can begin to ask questions that will get better results.


[ Parent ]
this is just life--a lot of these problems are up to the individual blenders to deal with
and while your efforts to soothe hurt feelings and try to resolve these issues are very admirable, pam and autumn, there is really only so much you can realistically do unless you are willing to completely alter the tone and accessibility of the blend.    

i love it the way it is.  i think you have a winning formula here, and the ratings, troll/abuse monitoring, comments--it all works fine.  i don't want any of it to change, and while i'm seeing threats from blustering blenders about how it's going to crash and how they're leaving.  so the hell what?  how many blenders have come and gone over the years, and it's still an outstanding place for discussion and insight?  

we as individuals need to be able to deal with incivility and attacks, to a certain degree.  misdirected anger and shitty words are the sole reason that some blenders come here--that's life.  they'll hijack threads in their own manner to put others down.  i've experienced my share of them and quickly learned that not everyone is my friend.  but for every one of those, there are 10 others who provide excellent commentary and who are quite capable of providing civil discourse.  i choose to focus on the positive.  

The gays stole my lunch money


I missed it
And I'm not a regular here.  That said, I rely on PHB for queer news and trans info, and I read Lisa Harney's QT every couple of days (and respect it enormously).  I also spend (too much) time on daily kos.  I've followed Autumn's reporting on and off and am very pleased to see her evolution as a voice for our community.

The thing to me is that no marginalized group is ever going to be a fount of civility and moderation.  Our lives make us, some of us, sad crazy, and regrettably enough, sometimes it shows.  Some blogs have a "be excellent to each other" vibe that works (docudharma, mostly) or simply a tradition of barking loudly while genuinely listening to the barks in response (dk).  PHB, while it does many excellent things, does not have that culture, at least when it comes to trans stuff.  People come in and say rotten things.  There's a strong temptation to log in and respond.  I don't know how one fixes that (in response to Pam's end comment).  No idea.   I do know that as a genderqueer identified MTF medical transie, I shy away from PHB trans treads as a rule.  It isn't so much that I think we are too cruel to the cis folks (deal, ban me, whatever), but that we are too cruel to each other.  I am too likely to read things that remind me of the saddest and angriest parts of a support group about who is real and who isn't.  

And I don't have a fix.  Just don't.  I think this problem applies to discussion in any society with great gulfs of inequality though, because the folks on the edges go nuts and have trouble talking in a way that others can access.  So while it may be frustrating as all get out, any creative solution will help us all move forward...


Reluctant
I have to admit, I tend to be a bit resistent to new terminology that is just designed to be politically correct.  This is probably because the first "safe" community I found was the leather community in the 1980s, at a time when Andrea Dworkin and Catherine MacKinnon were assailing that community, porn, sex work et. al. to a highly irrational degree.  So conforming to something just to be PC just isn't my nature.

That said, "cissexual" still fits a void that would otherwise be occupied by words like "normal," which intentional or not are backhanded slaps in the face.  I've kind of reluctantly settled into using it.

I really hate that we get so hung up on language, labels, terminology (and it doesn't help that everyone's definitions differ).  To me, it's always the intent.  To me, "shemale," "tranny" or "queer" spoken playfully or with friendship, admiration and respect is a damn sight better than "transsexual" coming out of someone's mouth with a spit of venom.  But then, as much as I don't care for those former terms, I've been in environments where you sometimes have to adapt to them, so that's sort of taught me to see past the literal.  Words don't have to wound; intent does that well enough.

I also get tired of arguments about who is the "most marginalized" and "you don't have it as bad as we do."  It's not a bloody contest.  Ideally, yes, people should show respect for our lot -- but that should also be mutual.  I tend to think that we have it "different," moreso that "better" or "worse."

Re: censorship, I missed most of what occurred, but the way I see it, you simply use your best judgment, and sometimes mess up.  That's your prerogative.  For the longest time, I thought I was being true to principle to allow anything on Dented... and that escalated to the point of threats.  There always has to be limits somewhere.  Basically, be as patient as is reasonable.  "Are banned users ever allowed to return?"  If you feel assured that the apology is adequate and the behaviour will not be repeated.


Rather than use terminology
Maybe an honest inventory of personal privileges (and handicaps) is a better strategy.  If done right, it will reveal far more about ourselves and others than assigning terminology.  It's not something that can be off the cuff;  if it's done quickly, or for that matter, finished up at all...it won't be right.

Done so, I suspect we will all come to the conclusion that privilege is part of each and every one of us.

The next step is to come to the conclusion that exercising privilege over some one else is a deep violation of that person's freedom.

I am privileged (in Michigan, where I live) to have a job, and unfortunately, I have to go work it.


Hate stops a beating heart.


Vocabularies and responses
I'm a cisgendered male. To me, that feels like a simple statement of fact. The adjective is new to me, so it has no sub-text for me.

(By contrast, "queer" and "faggot" always make me flinch, because those words were used to literally assault me.)

If someone refers to a "cisgendered gay rights movement", I react the same as when someone refers to a "male gay rights movement" or a "white gay rights movement". Those also feel to me like statements of fact. I understand all three labels as critiques of failures within the LGBT movement.

If someone actually asserts on principle that there should ONLY be an LGB movement (or an LG movement, or a G movement), well, I disagree with them on principle. It is an argument that fails to match reality. (In the 1970s I would have said it was "objectively counter-revolutionary", but that was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.)

I have a wistful nostalgia for the loss of the "gay rights movement". I wish it still existed. I was saddened when it morphed into the united front against patriarchy that is the LGBT movement. But I absolutely do not agree in principle that that united front should be dissolved.

At every step of the transformation, I completely agreed (and continue to agree) with what was happening. When lesbians argued that "gay" implied "male", I agreed. When bisexuals argued that "gay and lesbian" left them out, I agreed. When T-folk argued that they were being excluded, I agreed.

So -- I personally am not offended by the term "cisgendered", whether it is being used as a calm statement of fact or an angry accusation. YMMV, of course.

As a side issue, I do not agree that anyone has a right not to be offended by the speech of others. I assert my right to offend christianists, god-worshippers of all stripes, right-wing loons, and anyone else I disagree with. I also assert that my right to do so by necessity entails their right to offend me. Being offended does not harm me (me, personally); being criminalized, harassed, tortured, or murdered harm me.

As far as moderation, one of the reasons that I read the Blend and not Daily Kos is because the Blend is moderated to the extent that it is. My life is filled with many interests and obligations. I personally have no time to read vicious attacks, whether they are on me or on others I consider allies.


bounce and be done with trolls
Since the baristas already recognize the destructive effects of hostility and of trolls and other sociopaths, I wait with much interest to see if they will effectively put an end to this infestation.  I simply want to suggest that the baristas not struggle with exaggerated remorsefulness when they enforce the rules.

Maintain the blend as the sort of place where you would want to share your wedding pictures.  


Not everybody wants to see wedding pictures
I for one would much rather have PHB be a place where all issues (yes, even the divisive ones) touching the queer/TBLG communities can be discussed openly. Do I think that discussing divisive issues will sometimes result in angry discussions? Yes, but silencing dissent by not allowing angry people to speak, no matter how justified their anger might be, isn't going to make the Blend a better place.

[ Parent ]
stop looking to your goddamn CAT for answers
So, I asked my kat Bon-Bon last night and this morning "How do I fix this?" Again she silently stared at me from her window perch.

Maybe, just maybe, instead of making trans people your whipping girls -- as you quite blatantly did with me -- you should start listening to what trans people are saying about how you fucked up.

Instead of bowing and scraping to win favor among cisgender people.

Several very rational and friendly trans people have told you exactly how to start fixing this. But instead you did completely the wrong thing.

PS:  Thanks for throwing me to the wolves because I spoke the truth about what Aravosis did in 2007. I really appreciate that, you fucking asshole.

http://kynn.com/


please get kynn out of here already


The gays stole my lunch money

[ Parent ]
Everyone gets their say; I get to listen; Pam gets to listen.

No commentary from me on a particular blender's comment(s) unless that particular blender specifically asks for a personal commentary back from me, and no one will be ejected for their comments here today.

This is what Pam and I said we were going to do, and this is what we're going to do.  

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
Except Matt didn't ask for a specific commentary
But since you responded, are you going to take responsibility for the mob you've set on me, which includes Matt who apparently wants me gone, Autumn?

You've made me the whipping girl by pinning this on me -- for a statement that was in no way "weaponized" -- are you going to own up to your scapegoating or are you going to insist that your actions (which you admit were wrong) are justified by whatever you imagine I did?

This is a specific request from personal commentary from Autumn Sandeen.

http://kynn.com/


[ Parent ]
Yes Autumn
I second that.

Are you going to take responsibility for what you said and the actions that were a result of your words?


[ Parent ]
Matt isn't alone
and it has nothing to do with Autumn or anything else, it has to do with your behavior, today, in this thread.

We get it, you're angry. Are you anything else? Is there some other side to you? Can you get over your anger and contribute anything productive, or do you just want to continue being a dam in the middle of everyone else's stream? I don't have much use for a dam, and I've sure as hell never let a dam change my mind about anything.

I don't see where you being here today leads to anyone's progress, including your own.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing


[ Parent ]
Glad of the mob to check in!
Thank you so much Autumn Sandeen for validating these angry cis queers in their attacks on me!

You've designated me as a target, Autumn, and not only linked to my comment but also my personal blog and my twitter feed -- and also made up provably false tales in order to make me the one "responsible" for an argument that started before I ever got here.

Great job, Autumn! Thanks for throwing me under the bus, you self-promoting sell-out!


http://kynn.com/


[ Parent ]
Where Do You Suggest She Be?
Kynn was specifically called out by Autumn, and has yet to get an explanation -- or better yet -- a retraction of the claim that she started the whole cis controversy, a provable falsehood because Kynn's first comments came a day after the controversy started. There are timestamps on comments, you know.

As far as I can tell, she has every right to be present and be angry until someone with some authority here explains why she was specifically called out -- and therefore targetted -- for something that she didn't do.

I'd consider the "baristas" recalcitrance to address this issue publicly and fairly to be the "dam" in this stream. And also the sticking point for a lot of people (including queer cis allies like myself) in ever feeling that this is going to be a trustworthy and safe environment to be a part of again.


[ Parent ]
Seriously?
After everything i've said, i have to specifically ask you to respond to me?

Autumn Sandeen, please respond to my prior post i made today at 10:25 EDT. If necessary, i can print this request out and wrap it around a brick for less subtley.

Email rather than public post would be fine if you like. i'm not looking for a public show. Just real answers.

Are you talking about what it is you know, or just repeating what it was you heard?

Grace Slick

www.anonymous-t-girl.blogspot.com


[ Parent ]
The Kat (Cat)
The Kat is a prop designed to divert one's attention and personalize the discussion, it's an old writers technique.


[ Parent ]
Poisoned well
I have been a long time lurker here, I have been hesitant to post until now because of what I see as being the almost abusive use political correctness by Autumn and a few others.
The actions of Ms Sandeen have extreme enough that I think the only to restore trust at the Blend would be for Autumn to resign and no longer post here.

Weaponizing political correctness chokes free thought, it also creates animosity.

Right now PHB is not seen in a good light for what has happened.

I feel if the Blend is to survive then there must be some big changes including changes in management.  


Wow
44 comments and everyone is pretty much civil.

Autumn and Pam are not being "civil"
Their words may be honeyed but what they are really saying is very indecent.

http://kynn.com/


[ Parent ]
And you are the picture of civility.
You have down rated every person who has asked a valid question who does not identify as trans or is supportive of PHB in any way, you are now targeting those you perceive to be the Cis-Gendered amongst the blenders and you wonder why the issue is so contentious.

I laugh at people like you (not because of the fact that you are Transgendered, but because of your hostility and hypocrisy), who get all worked up over civility and then go on to be as uncivil or more than those they rail against.

Hypocrisy is such an ugly thing, and do you really think you are bridging the divide by being such a vindictive individual?

Please, keep it up, and that helps transgendered individuals HOW?  I look forward to another one of your 1 ratings.

Keep demonizing everyone and soon you will find yourself alone.

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY


[ Parent ]
What's wrong with me down-rating unproductive comments?
Here, I'll be nice, and even refrain from rating you down.

For what it's worth, though -- I don't "get all worked up over civility" -- I get worked up over oppression. There's a difference and you'd best learn it.

http://kynn.com/


[ Parent ]
You seriously ask that?
I took the time to go over and look at your blog, and from what I read, you are not stupid by any means, so one would think you KNOW exactly what you are doing.  To pretend otherwise cheapens your commentary.

It is obvious that you had an issue with Autumn and that you will continue to take it out on her here, and that is your prerogative, just don't expect everyone to stand by without saying something.

I really hope YOU never make any mistakes, that you never are in disagreement with your blog readers and that YOU never get treated the way that you are treating the other participants on this blog.

Are you more concerned with Trans-rights or are you more concerned with beating up on Autumn for a mistake she has admitted to making and is trying to figure out how she can fix it?

If you really are concerned with Trans-Rights and oppression, then what is it you want in THIS diary?  YOU have a beef with Autumn and that is your right, but to down rate people as unproductive who are talking about educating people (I thought that was everyone's common goal)and who really wish to figure out how to resolve these concerns is unconscionable.  Do you really wonder why I said what I did?  You are smarter than that.

Just because Autumn is transgendered does not make this blog a trans specific one, and both Pam and Autumn have a responsibility to the other letters in the alphabet to educate them on issues they are not as familiar with as you are.  These "conversations" even as contentious as they may be, do educate people and serve a purpose, even if it is not in the way you would like.

Keep teying to divide, and pretty soon you will alienate those who support you.  Does that do anyone's rights any good?

 

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY


[ Parent ]
When I make mistakes...
...I own up to them. I don't create false stories that blame other people for my mistakes. That's what Autumn did here -- she lied. And falsely blamed me.

Meanwhile, have you been to Derailing for Dummies? Because your concern trolling about "oh no, you aren't helping your cause by being so angry" is right out of the derailing playbook.

http://kynn.com/


[ Parent ]
Wow
44 comments and everyone is pretty much civil.

I'm at sea
I'm one of the 3,000 newbies.  I came here originally because of my interest in marriage equality:  So many of you are feet-on-the-ground reporters, and you provide terrific insight into what's really happening around the country on an issue I care deeply about.

IRL I've only ever had one trans friend (that I know of); and although I've made friends with trans people in online communities, I'm basically pretty uneducated when it comes to trans issues.

Which brings me to one of the reasons why I'm still here:  I don't want to inadvertently hurt anyone through my ignorance.  I need to know what words are triggers for others so I can avoid them.  It's not being PC...it's simple civility.

My guess is that what the Blend is experiencing right now is major growing pains.  You've gone from a small tight-knit community where certain responses were automatically anticipated to a larger (nearly double in size) place with a lot of new blood.  It will simply take time for the community to reform in its new configuration.

Value what you have here.  Value each other.  And value the amazing insight you bring to others.