Pride Events Marred by Violence

Would Be Great

if HRC ran a full-page ad, like the "christians" done following Prop 8.

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by: bluegrassfool @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 12:07:33 PM CDT

But that would mean spending money

For all that they love collecting money, they seem quite loathe to spend money on anything except more and fancier fundraisers.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même merde.

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by: TechBear @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 12:42:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Troubling irony

With respect to the Minneapolis incident, I'm surprised and saddened to hear that the perpetrators were Somalis.  This is a group that itself still faces discrimination (even in relatively-accepting Minneapolis), and yet here are members thereof doing the same hateful crap to others.

I realize this is hardly a new phenomenon, but it still rankles me.  Are there any psychologists or philosophers around here who care to speculate as to why the demonized so often becomes the demonizer?

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by: CubPaws2008 @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 12:14:12 PM CDT

To answer your question...

When a person is marginalized, there is something in our psyche that makes us feel better when we can marginalize someone else. The thinking seems to be: If there is someone beneath us, worthy of our contempt, then we are not at the bottom and we are not the most contemptible.  

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même merde.

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by: TechBear @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 12:54:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Its probably more complex than that...

You find that anti-gay dogma is pretty mainstream all over Africa. Unfortunately attitudes tend to follow people no matter where they go.

This is a cultural problem that you find in many immigrant communities where the population originated in fiercely homophobic societies.

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by: SciFi Geek @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 13:57:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yeah, I got into this debate somewhere else

I really don't have a tolerance to work with this type of thing...

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by: kevinchi @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 14:13:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I have no doubt that it is more complex than that

Human psychology is anything but clear-cut. But the fact is that humans, like most other primates, are a social animal with fairly rigid hierarchic societies. We are happier when we have an alpha (even if we have to make one up) and we crave the security of knowing that we are not the lowliest member of the tribe.

As for widespread anti-gay attitudes, it is significant to note that such societies very much tend to be rigidly hierarchic. Societies that are less vertical and more horizontal are generally more accepting of homosexuality.  

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même merde.

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by: TechBear @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 16:00:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is pure speculation on my part, but:

Yes, the perps were Somalis, which as you say is an "outside" group.  But I think it's reasonable to guess they were also Christians, which is not.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 13:11:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well...

..."Gay is not the way" is a classic Christian hate slogan.  We see it all the time.

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by: TomTallis @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 14:05:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Victim - Perpetrator cycle

Typically each will eventually flip and become the other.  Oppressed/oppressor, abused/abuser, etc. So essentially they are one and the same.

vanhattan

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by: vanhattan @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 17:31:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's far simpler than that

The expectation that people who are themselves the objects of prejudice will be less prejudiced or more tolerant than the general population is simply unrealistic. By its very definition, prejudice is an irrational thought process; expecting objects of prejudice to be less prejudiced is expecting prejudice to behave rationally. There is simply no "natural solidarity of the oppressed"; coalitions to bring about social justice do not form spontaneously, but rather are the result of long hard work on the part of many groups and individuals.

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by: ebohlman @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 13:41:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I lived in MPLS for 50 years

On return visits I've walked around some of Loring Park neighborhood where my friend lived. There is a Somalis cafe about a half a block from a gay bar, and it's not safe for gays going around  the Somalis cafe filled with 20-30 yr old men. I hadn't seen clusters of Somalis children like this video showed.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 00:46:39 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks WH for compilation and summation.

....and for all of us to remember warning...especially since more children are there.

Also wanted to post a comment from ROD under the Bilerico post of this, but apparently that is protected by a copyright.

Go read it, it was a significant harassment of a black 'two spirit' at the New York Parade by the NYPD. I had not heard of it before. 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 12:26:17 PM CDT

My first Pride parade

My mom and her friends took me to my first Gay Pride parade in 1977. I was 16 at the time -- almost 17.

The parade took place on Hollywood Blvd. in Los Angeles. This was a few years before the creation of West Hollywood and the renovations of Hollywood Blvd. At the time, it was a pretty seedy area and definitely not a safe place.

At certain places along the parade route, it seemed that there were more protestors than parade participants. As my group stood watching the parade, a group of young men ran up to us and began pelting us with eggs. There were two police officers on motorcycles about 10 yards away and they did nothing. They just let our attackers continue to throw eggs at other people.

My mom got hit right in the head and she went crazy with anger. She began chasing the young men down the street, yelling at others to stop them. They began running away from her in all directions. The crowd laughed and cheered. (She was a petite 5'-2" blonde and it was pretty funny to see this in action.)

I continued to go to L.A. Pride for many years. It moved to West Hollywood and people felt that it was a much safer environment. I don't know if that is really true.

I recall violent incidents from almost every year over the last 30. There are far fewer prostestors. The Sheriff's deputies are much better at policing the crowd and protecting the participants. But, a few people still seem to get hurt.

In L.A., gay people park in neighborhoods and walk two or three miles to the parade and festival. Some alwyas get mugged on the way back to their cars. Others get drunk or high on drugs and are victimized after the event.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 12:46:08 PM CDT

Troubling shift, perhaps

  Something I really noticed this year that I now realize may have been a political move by the groups that claim to represent us: an appeal to normalcy, to "fitting in".

 The consistent message was that "See? We are no different from you", to the point of loss of unique identity.  Most of the media coverage seemed to be carefully managed to portray a shift in the celebrations away from the "irresponsible" and "embarassing" displays of the past.  Instead they focused on how the gatherings are now family oriented (kids were often front-and-center) and could easily be mistaken for a Very White Christian Fourth of July Parade and Picnic.  "We are not different and we are not weird and most of all, we are not angry" was the message of the day.  Judging by much of the media coverage there was no gender transgression apart from perhaps a few fine upstanding and responsible parental units that happened to be of the same gender.  But, the coverage indicated that even they could have fit in at a suburban mall or unloading gear from the minivan at their kids' soccer game.

 Granted, the goal is to be accepted, not just tolerated.  But must it be at the price of total assimilation?  Or maybe it's all true.  Maybe the anger is gone.  Maybe everyone wants nothing more than to be seen as normal.  Maybe everyone just wants to "get along".  But what about those of us that will not or can not, "just be good LGBT's and fit in"?

   I was truly expecting some anger and protest of the recent setbacks and lack of support from the Administration and was truly disappointed instead.  I fear that the greater umbrella of gender stereotype transgression has reached middle age and is now  "comfortable enough", and lazy.  Enough progress has been gained by most that they no longer want to risk what they have.  Except that some of us are still being discriminated against.  Some of us are still being attacked and dying for not "just fitting in".

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by: sarasnavel @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 12:57:48 PM CDT

That would be troubling

If we can't accept our own community, how can we possibly expect others to accept us?

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing

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by: QueerInSoCal @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 17:47:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Which pride are you going to?

Houston Pride was anything but a "very white christian fourth of July parade and picnic."

Every shape and form of person was there.  From wild and crazy to dull and everyday.  Whether or not that was shown in the media coverage.. that's another story.

I don't feel like I'm losing my identity if there are less go-go boys gyrating by on a sequined float.  Everyone can be included now, it means that pride is about more than just things adult themed.

The movement's growing.. more people are being added, and yes some of those people will be what you call the "white christian fourth of july parade goers."  We've really gotta celebrate all kinds of LGBT people, from the rebellious to the meek.

I'm all for the eccentric, over-the-top or sexy aspects of LGBT to be shown at pride.. but I also want those everyday folks to feel they belong too.

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by: flyerfier @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 18:28:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It was the message that I object to

The apparent gentrification of the Pride events, whether in the media or on the pavement is what troubles me.  If is just in the media then we are being handled, most likely for political purposes (as in, "we feel the bill has a better chance of passing if the undesirable elements of the community are not the focus").  If the actual demographics at the events have changed, why is that?  If they match the surrounding demographics that's fine, if merely interesting as it would indicate a shift away from cities for minorities, etc.  If it does not fit the demographics of the surrounding  LGBT population, why did some people stay away?  Also, to clarify I think it is awesome that as a community we can now openly be parents. Regarding how I feel about my rainbow flag toting kids seeing the "go go boys", I strongly feel many Puritain-esque values are at the heart of our persecution and discrimination.

But to reiterate, I was primarily responding to the media portrayal of the events and my own observation that despite good sized gatherings there doesn't seem to be much unrest regarding civil rights.  Or maybe everyone just needed a vacation for a day, a chance to just enjoy and not worry...

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by: sarasnavel @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 11:48:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

i do agree

the parades and festivals have changed a lot in the past few years.  It does seem we have become more inclusive of the more "media-friendly" gay lifestyle.  

I agree 100% that we should never favor any side over the other.. especially not to pass bills.  Our whole fight has been about being who we want to be!  

I strongly feel many Puritain-esque values are at the heart of our persecution and discrimination.

This wins you internet points.

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by: flyerfier @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 14:17:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Lazy

"I fear that the greater umbrella of gender stereotype transgression has reached middle age and is now  "comfortable enough", and lazy."

People who have children for whom they are responsible absolutely cannot afford to risk what they have, because they take that risk on their children's behalf as well as their own.  As gay parents have become 'normal', their contribution to the gay movement changes.  That doesn't mean they're not equally committed, it means that they have more at risk than those without children.  The assumption that what is unique about 'gay' is being in-your-face publicly sexual is a stereotype and one that just doesn't work for parents with their kids along.

Crow

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by: crow @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 15:20:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The press reports paint a bleak picture of increased violence and it's not random.

It has clear causes. These incidents increase during political campaigns when candidates utter the usual bigotry - "gawds in the mix" or bray like Palin that we're a threat. They surge every time the right mounts yet another assault on SSM. Pride events are often the focus for violence and bullying.

This time around there's a familiar element. These events also reflect the unambiguous hostility of Democrats and the Obama Administration in particular. There's a steady drumbeat of bigoty from christer and islamist clerical bigots like Warren, McClurkin and immigrant Slavic christers. Fringe groups like the Republicans incite violence by describing us as less than human, flawed, and undeserving of citizenship. Overlaying and amplifying that cacophony of hatred Democrats openly pander to bigots, cynically delay our agenda and unnecessarily defend bigot laws like Clintons DOMA and DADT. Just as they've always have.  

People notice. Thugs notice it too, especially the ones in blue uniforms. They take their cues from White Houses' indifference and hostility.

Obama is just as dangerous as Clinton or Bush were in terms of emboldening thugs. LGBT Democrats who backed Obama and the Democrats misled people for partisan reasons. Now, many of them are changing their minds and openly breaking with the politics of riding under the bus. As quoted in another Blend diary an unhappy LGBT DNC insider spells it out for us:

  Q: What is the mood or tone within the DNC regarding gay rights issues?

The only thing I hear about LGBT action is in reference to not rocking the boat until after the next election.

Q: Is that 2010 or 2012?

Both.

Q: So the DNC's official stance is to keep LGBT causes under wraps?

Not the official position, but it is clear to me that that is the unofficial position.

With Democrats like that who needs Republicans.

The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  

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by: donal1944 @ Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 20:54:14 PM CDT

Where are we in traditional media?

What drives me absolutely crazy is the lack of reporting on any of this by the "mainstream" (I hate using that term ever since the right-wing appropriated it and made it something "bad") traditional media. I'm not surprised about the lack of coverage, as with any minority movement it is up to the self-created dissident press to push the issues and get the information out there. And we're shifting forms, from the use of traditional media and now into new media.

Had it not been for friends who had been at the Rainbow Lounge in Ft. Worth and others who pushed the stories online through twitter and facebook, I probably wouldn't have heard about it. I only heard about the burning of the pink triangle in S.F. yesterday (again, through someone's blog).

Beyond silencing our voices in the media or portraying all LGBT as some Stepford Gay creations, they are silencing our struggles. Locally, I'm sure all of these were covered to some extent. A small article here, and notation on page 4 there, along with (depending on the location) pictures depicting the deplorable acts that the pride celebrations flaunt.

But when do these violent struggles get the front page of the NY Times? Legal stories of course get the coverage, that is clean and easy to handle and people can take sides on that without really having to question their morals (either side of that "ethical and moral" divide that the religious right forged). But stories like these in this post make people uncomfortable.

It is extremely sad to me how we are swept under the media rug. I've had to teach some of my younger friends (20 & 21 year olds) about Stonewall and why we march every June. I am very grateful for sites like this that educate, but the need is very much there with the mainstream media as well.

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by: kwolfe @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 00:12:10 AM CDT