Vatican now investigating nuns

Don't Worry 'Bout Us

"it had failed to "promote" the church's teachings on three issues: the male-only priesthood, homosexuality and the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church as the means to salvation."

How about promoting the issue of ancient sissies called "Catholic Priests", parading around in disco capes and looking at little boys as if they're a delicious treat, who blames their buggery on consenting homosexual adults and their relationships?

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by: bluegrassfool @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 11:11:38 AM CDT

Finally the Church bothered to look at nuns

For decades, I knew nuns who while celibate, weren't giving up men, by their vows. Many would come worship at MCC, and anytime a feminist or lesbian performer came to the Twin Cities, this Catholic facility is where they performed.
I don't see these nuns changing to please this foul NAZI pope, I think they would be more likely to just LEAVE.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 11:16:18 AM CDT

Nuns Gone Wild!

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 11:41:15 AM CDT

all I could think of on reading this last night was

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

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by: avocado @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:41:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you for the timely warning!

I have passed the warning on to a "renegade" who has been crucial in helping some transgender people in the Fort Worth/Dallas area transition. She also helped establish PFLAG Fort Worth and has done much more for TLGBs for many years.

Does the Vatican plan to pay a bounty for each of these dangerous outlaws who are hogtied and brought in to internment centers?

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by: Cathy Cat @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 11:44:03 AM CDT

DADT and "reparative" therapies for nuns?

After all, these policies and methods have been "so successful" that they are still used and could be adapted for "errant" nuns.

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by: Cathy Cat @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:41:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

aren't they already used

on Catholic priests and seminary students?

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by: avocado @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:49:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I have to admit I laughed at ...

"The church now thinks it has a renegade nun problem."

What instantly came to mine was the graphics for the movie, "Catch Me if You Can" except instead of DiCaprio running, it was a nun. But then in my head, I saw a nun wearing habiliments, which goes against what this post is saying . . .

Anyway, I once dated an Episcopal priest who was gay, open about it and still wore the garb indicating he was a priest. Though Episcopalians are a far cry from Catholics, their acceptance of diversity (not in all churches, but many) should set an example for the Catholic church. They don't alienate.

(And yes, I know the church is tearing at the seams because of this, but at least they're dealing with it instead of suppressing it.)  

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by: UnitetheFight.org @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 11:46:33 AM CDT

Overlooked Gems - Religious Women in the RC Church

Some sisters surmise that the Vatican and even some American bishops are trying to shift them back into living in convents, wearing habits or at least identifiable religious garb, ordering their schedules around daily prayers and working primarily in Roman Catholic institutions, like schools and hospitals.

In other words - we'd like our cheap labor back.

The Church has never respected the role of religious women nor acknowledged the enormous amount of good these women do. Sure, we have the stereotype of the mean nun standing over the poor Catholic school kid, ruler in hand, but that was never my experience. When I was growing up in the Church it was invariably the priests, if anyone, who acted high-handed and superior to everyone. It was the sisters who were the kind ones who did most of the hard work (although I knew many decent priests as well).

Of course, the Church was never that thrilled with the idea of orders of religious women anyway. They liked their nuns the old-fashioned way - cloistered away from the public and devoted to prayers. In fact, I was taught that the word "nun" should only be used for cloistered orders and that most of the "nuns" we see are actually Sisters. The role of Sisters is to be of service, rather than devoted to prayer, and even the habits each order wore were derived from the typical peasant woman's wear of the time of their founding. They were meant to blend into society as nurses, teachers, etc.

This, of course, represented an amazing amount of power for women of the time. My great-aunt's order (the Sisters of Saint Joseph) was founded in France in the early 1600s, when women were literally property and traded as such. Religious women at the time had a very real freedom - they owed their lives to the Church and its male rulers, but they were able to organize their lives according to their own wishes, and pretty much free of the concern of pleasing men. Which is why the Church gradually increased their control of these Orders through the decades until we saw the rigid control of the early 20th century. When my great-aunt first entered the convent, the convents had no control over their own finances, and the bishop literally gave them monthly allowances. The money was never enough, and often the Sisters ate only once a day. When my grandfather (her brother) realized this, he began making surprise visits with ice cream - you can imagine how popular he was.

Vatican II represented a huge break, but also a return to the roots of the Orders and their reason for being, and the subsequent Popes have been trying to rein them in ever since.  

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by: CPT_Doom @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:05:08 PM CDT

All hail the SSJs!

What do they mean, they don't have habits?

The ones that taught me for 19 years (preschool through college, and the college was a Motherhouse) DO have a uniform: a Lord and Taylor pantsuit, with the SSJ cross-and-globe on the lapel.

Please - THIS is what the heirarchy is worried about? For most of my classmates, the liberal nuns/sisters/whateva were the only things that kept us in the pews and nominally Catholic (if liberal and malcontent).

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by: lyonside @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 15:29:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually they used to be quite "useful"

Think back, way before birth control.  Several hundred years ought to do nicely.  Why do you think convents were typically associated with orphanages?  Not just because "women are more nuturing" by nature.  Here and there in the literature you find some tantalizing glimpses into the world when it was dominated by the Church.  When a young, unmarried woman would get preggers, her family would "send her off to the nunnery".  She'd have the baby and it would be placed in the orphanage connected to the convent.  Odd by today's standards, this arrangment allowed her to stay close to her child as it grew up.  The family would then typically donate very kindly to the church to ensure her care and to provide for the child as well.  The Church was providing a service to those families, you see, sparing them the embarassment and indignity of having a sinner for a daughter.  Of course, that service was needed primarily becuase of the social structures and rules that the Church itself had created.  What I haven't found enough references for is how women from less well to do families fared.  My cynical assumption is that they made up a lower caste at the convent and had to provide more of the physical labor.  The convents had too many desk jobs and an odd heirarchy.

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by: sarasnavel @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 16:54:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

More power to our sistahs!

"...many American nuns stopped wearing religious habits, left convents to live independently and went into new lines of work: academia and other professions, social and political advocacy and grass-roots organizations that serve the poor or promote spirituality."

Sounds like they're doing god's work.

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by: meileen @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:24:51 PM CDT

the nuns i know do more singular charitable work than the entire vatican combined

my widowed mother works very closely with the nuns in my hometown.  only the retired nuns live in the convent--the working nuns live where they can and keep their vows of poverty, charity, and spiritual devotion.  

the nazi-run vatican has little to do with the lives of those women, who have excellent senses of humor, enjoy the company of my mother's homosexual son and his partner (whose home they have visited), denounce the selfishness of republican greed, don't live in the opulent surroundings of the vatican palace, and actually know something of the life condition known as "reality".  i have nothing but the utmost respect for the catholic nuns that i know.  if the vatican had any credibility whatsoever, it would look to them for inspiration instead of trying to force them to become more subservient to it.  catholicism should be a means to do charitable work, not viewed as a system meant to be maintained, unquestioned, and unchanged at all cost.  what a sad sham of an organization it is.  what a waste.    

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:53:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly known as the Inquisition

The Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition was established on July 21, 1542 by Pope Paul III. It was renamed The Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office in 1908 by Pope Pius X, renamed again to The Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on December 7, 1963 as part of the Vatican II reforms, and renamed most recently in 1983 to drop the word "Sacred."

Seems like the Inquisition still has a few witches to burn.

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by: TechBear @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:28:30 PM CDT

omg

Three of my six aunts are nuns. They are wonderful, strong, feminist women who have dedicated their entire lives to education, social justice, and advocacy for the poor and marginalized. One marched with Cesar Chavez; one singlehandedly set up comprehensive social services for orphans in a city in Romania; one runs an all-girl high school. Ordering them to live in community and wear habits, whether they like it or not, is extremely disrespectful of their work and their ability to make their own decisions about representing Christ and the church in the secular world.

Sadly, as CPT_Doom says, this is typical of the bullshit the church has always thrown at women religious. It's a big part of the dropoff in people taking vows, both men and women. Trying to bring the liberal theological organizations to heel with threats of excommunication hasn't helped either. But Benedict seems to think if you're in a hole you should just keep digging. I wish radical hippie Jesus would give him a good talking-to.

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by: m3brooklyn @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:54:29 PM CDT

So, you want nuns?

How about promoting the issue of ancient sissies parading around in disco capes and looking at little boys as if they're a delicious treat,

Hey, that's our job!

Well, our convent is always open if they decide they're tired of men taking credit for women's work. (While at the same time trivializing and demeaning that work.)

Everyone seems to think we're mocking nuns, but the truth is many of us were postively motivated by the women (historically and today) who have dedicated their lives to the emotional, physical and spiritual health and well being of their community. That's the same life long vow I've taken, theng queue. As CPT_Doom says, there is a spectrum of good and bad, but that's just humanity.

As we say in our convent: "It's about the work."

I hope the girls tell them what pew they can stick it in.

Sister Mary Fucking Poppins, DinoNun,
Los Angeles Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence
Matron, St Inappropriata's School for the Discombobulated
Chief Nursing Sister at Our Lady of Bishounen Hospital for the Insufferably Romantic

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by: SMFP @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:56:39 PM CDT

It makes me sad.

Up in our neck of the woods, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence have done a large amount of fund raising for many good and charitable organizations.  As California's budget woes slash more and more social programs out of existance (RIP Oakland's Women's Choice Clinic, thanks to Gov. Terminator) groups like the Sisters become a financial lifeline for many of these groups via targeted donations.

However, I very strongly cannot accept the Sisters' support for Catholic based charities and therefore the Catholic Church itself, by reducing the funding the Church needs to provide.  There are non-catholic orgs that provide the same services and others that the Church condemns.  More than ever, it is imperative to give directly to non-catholic orgs rather than support even a penny going to the Church; I simply can no longer support any organization which helps a group that is a threat to me and my child and my community.  I wish it were otherwise.

My other problem is when the Sisters claim that they, "do not mock nuns".  Kinda like saying that blackface doesn't mock African Americans.  If the group finds it offensive and you continue, it IS mocking them, every time you do it.  That said, I have no problem mocking nuns.  Or priests, or Arch Bishops...you get the point.  But be honest about it, and don't funnel donations to them to make up for it.

From their North Bay website, rrsisters.org:

Current Projects we are raising funds for are:
Adventures for Kids
After School Performing Arts for Children
Breast Cancer Awareness
Camp Sunburst
Circles of Support HIV Family Services
El Molino High School Grad Night
Face to Face
Family Support Center (Catholic Charities)
Food for Thought
Forestville Union School Arts Program
Friends of Guerneville Schools (Art Supplies)
GLSEN (Gay Lesbian Straight Educational Network)
Gay/Straight Alliance El Molino High School
Guerneville Education Foundation
Guerneville School District General Fund
Guerneville School District Music Program
Guerneville Library
HIV Complimentary Therapy Center
Holiday Community Diner
Kinder Gym at Russian River Child Care Services
Lambda Defense Fund
Love Journey
MCC Church Youth Choir
Monte Rio Education Foundation
PALS (Pets are Loving Support)
PULSE HIV Prevention Program
Pegasus Theater
Positive Images
Red Cross Flood Relief - Sonoma County
River Child Care
River Choir
Russian River Chamber of Commerce
Russian River Child Care Services
Russian River Counselors
Russian River Schools Music Programs
Russian River Senior Center (we love ya!)
Russian River Women's Health
Russian River Firefighters Association
Russian River Valley Foundation
Saint Vincent De Paul Society
San Francisco Zoo for Save the Eagles/Project Sven/Sonoma County Eagles
Sonoma County Aids Emergency Fund
Sonoma County Hepatitis AIDS Risk Reduction Program (needle exchange)
Sonoma County Kidney Crisis Foundation
Sonoma County Pride
Sonoma County Red Cross Flood Relief
Sonoma County Sheriff (Widows & Orphans Fund)
Toys for Tots
United Against Sexual Assault
Village Charter School
WAIF (Wild, Abandoned, Indigent Fund)
West County Health Services Teen Clinic
PLUS MANY MANY MORE!!!

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by: sarasnavel @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 17:40:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Sister is showing her legs!"

That's what all of the kids in my Catholic school said when we came back from summer vacation after Vatican II.

The previous year, all of the nuns who taught at our school wore the typical long, black habit. Not an inch of leg or arm showed.

When we came back to the next year, most of the nuns had changed to blue habits that were more like women's business suits. The dresses were hemmed just below the knee and the heavy head scarves had been changed for a smaller one that allowed the nun's hair to show as well.

Also, many of the nuns began carrying guitars and sang popular folk songs. They wore a little make up, too. All of the kids noticed that the nuns were not as uptight as the used to be. They seemed much happier and more like "regular" women.

We began to see them out on the town, having coffee and going to movies. This was unheard of before Vatican II.

It was quite a shock for us at the time.

Over the next three years, about half of the nuns left the school. They had to be replaced with lay teachers.  

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 13:35:29 PM CDT

Hilarious!

Obviously Ratzinger doesn't feel his church's slide into utter irrelevance is proceeding with sufficient haste.

I look forward to his next excellent plan.

Might I suggest a racial purity campaign?

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by: thecrustybastard.blogspot.com @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 00:17:11 AM CDT

Nuns Having Fun.

The church now thinks it has a renegade nun problem.

- I cracked up for five minutes reading that line, and it just gets funnier each time I read it.

And what the hell. The Church expects women to teach about the male-only priesthood?? "Hi, my name is Sister Mary, and I'm here to explain to you that the world will end if a women becomes a priest"??

Also, Hi. i just joined. :D?

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by: Iskierka @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 05:14:11 AM CDT