God not only made Adam & Steve, he made Roy & Silo, Fido & Spot, Ms. Whiskers & Precious, and...

Miss Whiskers and Precious

Hahahaha

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by: shaz4005 @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 15:06:41 PM CDT

This makes no difference

The argument about nature is a bit of a shell game. If nature appears not to contain the condemned behavior, then they cry, "But it's unnatural!" When and if nature does contain the condemned behavior, they will immediately shriek, "But we're better then mere animals!" And it goes back and forth as quickly as the evidence changes. Either way, they will NEVER admit that human behavior is a vast, complex, layered affair. Alas.

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by: buster @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 15:27:37 PM CDT

I like reading about gay animals

but teh crazy christians don't believe animals have souls.  

They aren't gonna change their minds.. they make too much money off of gay-hate.  They'll just use this to back up their arguments that we are heathen animals.

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by: flyerfier @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 15:47:49 PM CDT

No animal souls

This has always bothered me.  Animals don't go to heaven?  I suppose insects and plants don't, either.  So God really made this entire planet and all life forms to feed and amuse us before we traipse off to the Pearly Gates?  Really?  Why make a specialized bacillus which converts sulfur for energy and lives only near underwater lava vents at temperatures near boiling point?  We never see 'em or eat 'em or eat anything that sees 'em and eats 'em, so what's the point?  Same goes for all those other Hadalpelagic zone fishes with weird lights on their heads.

And I suppose, if there are extra-terrestrials, they don't have souls, either, or if they do, they're hellbound because they couldn't possibly accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (kinda like the Chinese slaves who built the Great Wall).  So you mean to tell me that hundreds of billions of stars and any of their planets and inhabitants, not to mention all the  galaxies, quasars, pulsars, black holes, dark matter, and unimaginable voids of our universe, this was all created as entertainment and background for a 6,000-year test of hairless apes' loyalty to a book?  Really?

Wow, mankind sure is special!

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

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by: RadicalRuss @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 17:08:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's always perplexed me as well

You'd think a christian would want their cat to end up in heaven.  

But the idea that someone who hasn't had the chance to hear the "word of god" will go to hell has supported their worldwide conquest and power.  It gives them an excuse to spread their ideologies fiercely and violently across the globe.  If they said that dogs had a soul and would go to heaven... that would kind of water down their reason for such conquest.  If Princess Kiki can go to heaven without ever understanding the bible, what reason can you use to save the heathens of a small island of tribal peoples?

Christianity has a lot of self-centered ideals.  No real respect for this planet that supports our lives.  

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by: flyerfier @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 17:38:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hellbound

I used to debate the fundamentalist at my university and one thing that I liked to ask was whether or not the man who lives on a remote mountain top in China and never hears the word of Jesus will go to Hell.

They used to argue that he would, because they believe that salvation is only possible only through human words and action. They don't believe that God can speak to the Chinese man directly.

So, God makes throwaway people. He makes people who are destined for Hell. That's such a sick way of thinking.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 20:02:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

In 1835 a NYC newspaper called the SUN

published a series of articles purporting to describe "new discoveries" about life on the Moon.  (Among the lunar denizens were huge, bipedal beavers and giant man-bats.)  Within days of the first article appearing, an enterprising preacher began taking up collections to send Bibles to the presumably damned Lunarians.  How the Bibles were to reach them was never specified.  But I guess if you can believe in talking snakes and walking on water, lunar man-bats are a slam-dunk.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 10:02:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Nothing will change them

Any group of people who professes that their holy book is inerrant yet pick and choose what laws they themselves follow will find it all too easy to spin findings like this. They have no regard for anything resembling the truth, all they care about is supporting their cock-eyed belief system, no matter how many people it harms.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

Douglas Adams - 'The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy'  

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by: Val @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 15:59:35 PM CDT

"Evolution's Rainbow"

i highly recommend the book Evolution's Rainbow by Joan Roughgarden. She is a well-known evolutionary biologist who deals with gender identity and sexual orientation among other things such as plate tectonic effects and genetics.

in parts it can be a difficult read because it is a research-based study, but those only enhance the credibility.

i was most fascinated with her discussion of pacific island geckos. almost all species are female only, cloning themselves to keep the species going. every so many generations they produce males in order to keep the line genetically more adaptive and pure.

certainly makes you wonder about the Geico gecko you see on T.V., doesn't it?

by the way, Dr. Roughgarden was at one time known as Dr. Jonathan Roughgarten. She is a professor of Biological Sciences at Stanford.

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by: jmichaeli @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 16:51:25 PM CDT

You don't have to go so far afield as the Pacific Ocean islands

to find species of all-female lizards which reproduce by parthenogenesis.  The New Mexico whiptail (which also occurs in Texas and Mexico) is one of several such.

In the past couple of years, it even appears to have been shown that female Komodo Dragons can reproduce without male input, at least in captivity.

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by: Pollyanna @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 04:05:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Another book recommendation

The watershed book on this subject is Biological Exuberance by Bruce Bagemihl.  The first part summarizes his arguments about same-gender sex in the animal world; why the evidence for its widespread nature has been ignored or suppressed in the scientific community over the centuries; and his theories about how it fits into evolution.  The second half is an exhaustive (at least at the time) catalog of ALL the species of animals, birds, fish, insects, etc. that have been observed engaging in such behavior - everything from flirtation, to casual sex, to raising children together as a paired couple.  And even back then, it was a really long list.

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by: popebuck1 @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:13:47 PM CDT

There's a lot of great stuff in BIOLOGICAL EXUBERANCE

Thanks for mentioning it, popebuck.  The book makes fascinating, even compelling reading (despite a certain scientific dryness in parts).  Among my favorite bits:

*The majority of adult giraffes are bisexual, and in some giraffe populations as much as 94% of the observed sexual activity is homo.

*There are even species, such as Flameback Woodpeckers, where the only sexual activity ever observed is homo!  

*There are actually species, such as Grizzly Bears, in which the only permanent pair-bonding that occurs is between same-sex animals.  (In the case of Grizzlies, it's females.  Wouldn't you love to watch Maggie Gallagher try to explain to a pair of lesbian Grizzlies how "unnatural" they are?).  

*One researcher was so disturbed to find male-male sex among the butterflies in his study, he published a paper titled "A Lowering of Moral Standards Among Butterflies."

There's a great deal more like that, including a lot of information about transgender in the animal world.  (There's a fish species with six genders[!], for instance, and the fish all morph among them.)  I couldn't recommend the book more highly to anyone who's interested in this topic.  It's one of the most fascinating books I've ever read, and it gave me a whole new perspective on the natural world and our place in it.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 10:22:14 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

huddling and making sex for joy's sake,

is a universal. Joan Roughgarden theorized that animal relationships led to "gossip" within anmal societies. Think about it: all action is done in open.

Meaning there are Carries, Samanthas, Charlottes, Mirandas, Bettes, Alices, Shains, Danas, etc in the various species...

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by: h3986 @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:46:49 PM CDT

I had a female Rottweiler

She acted in every way like a male. She lifted her leg to pee, she dominated other dogs, both male and female.

People were always shocked to discover that she was female. She was as large as a male and very aggressive.

Friends used to call her a "dyke dog" and laugh about it.

It was very difficult to relate to her as a female dog. She just seemed like a male 100% of the time.

She was also the most intelligent dog I have ever owned. Some of the things she could do would blow your mind. She could do very complex tasks (for a dog) and understood hundreds of commands.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:56:29 PM CDT

That's funny

We had a lesbian dog. She humped every female dog she could get around, but wanted to take the face off any male dog that tried to put his nose or his penis anywhere near her. She was also very intelligent, very stubborn, and very much her own dog. For her, out of sight was definitely not out of mind, and we had to go to elaborate extremes to stash spare toys around the house - she'd sniff then out and demand they be handed over.
She's gone now, but there'll never be another one like her, and she'll always have a special place in our hearts and memories.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing

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by: QueerInSoCal @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 22:49:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"complex tasks", eh?

sounds like an evolutionary pre-cursor to "Home Depot" lesbian behavior ;)

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by: h3986 @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 23:23:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]