The Top Ten Ways You Know You're A Christian Fundamentalist

Hey!! SOme of us ARE fundamentalist Christians!!

But then again when its funny its funny. Though I can't laugh right now, I'm busy being Spiritual! ;)

Always thinking about it...

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by: kudo451 @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 18:25:44 PM CDT

Discriminatory Post

. . . but I love it! And Radical Russ is just exercising his right to free speech. Uh oh, does that make him guilty of a hate crime? Better check with the fundamentalist christians, they're the experts on that and would know. LOL!!!

Close the GayTM. Only give to candidates who have actually done something other than make promises - most are just pandering for our cash.

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by: JohnVisser @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 18:48:39 PM CDT

Between the bigotry and the name calling;

I have to say that between the bigotry and the name calling i find in headlines here that I can't help but think this erodes the otherwise high credibility the Blend could have.

Being a fundamentalist Christian I am quite offended at this display of antisocial behavior from a group that demands tolerance form others.

Maybe that is the problem;
You cannot demand tolerance.  

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by: LiZ @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 18:54:04 PM CDT

Like a kid on the playground

But Mommy they started it!!!!

Close the GayTM. Only give to candidates who have actually done something other than make promises - most are just pandering for our cash.

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by: JohnVisser @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:07:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Antisocial behavior?

This isn't "pot and kettle"... this is like an entire earthenware FACTORY gone fakokta.

Fundamentalist Christians tell GLBT people we're going to endure eternal suffering, on account of a single fact about ourselves that causes no harm to others, and that's supposed to be OK.  But when someone, in turn, pokes fun at that belief system, it's some kind of inexcusable sin?!?

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by: CubPaws2008 @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 03:49:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

As it happens,

I've just recently posted a diary about the ongoing assertion that any difference with or criticism of Christianity is "bigotry."  http://www.pamshouseblend.com/...

Most Christians seem to consider their beliefs immune to any kind of intellectual scrutiny, satiric or otherwise.  Any attempt to engage them in a dialogue about their doctrines or their history is met immediately and LOUDLY with cries of "Bigotry!  Intolerance!  Incivility!"  Adding "Antisocial!" to that is an amusing new twist, but it's just more of the same anti-intellectual, passive-aggressive behavior we've come to expect.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 09:50:40 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Here's the difference re: anti-Christian bigorty

ME: I find preposterous your belief that your consciousness survives death through telepathic subservience to a 2,000-year-dead reanimated flying zombie.

That is an opinion.

ME: I find preposterous your belief that your consciousness survives death through telepathic subservience to a 2,000-year-dead reanimated flying zombie, and because of that, I am going to hit you in the face, deny you a job or a home, and deny you and the person you love dignity, respect, and equal protection under the law.

That is anti-Christian bigotry.

To be fair, I extend the same analogy to Fred Phelps.

PHELPS:  God hates fags!

That is an opinion.

PHELPS:  God hates fags, and because of that, we should hit gay people in the face, deny them a job or a home, and deny them and the people they love dignity, respect, and equal protection under the law.

That is anti-gay bigotry.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

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by: RadicalRuss @ Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 19:07:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I do not demand tolerance

I demand my human rights. After I have those, we'll talk about tolerance in regard to things that are not rights, such as having others refrain from satirizing one's religious opinions and choices.

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by: pgraydon @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 15:53:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Fundamentalist Christian Top Ten List

The Top Ten Ways You Know You're A Christian Fundamentalist list is mean, ugly and vindicitive. I don't understand how you can scream about and demand tolerance yet show so little for others.

Stephen

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by: steviep @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:08:31 PM CDT

Hypocrisy

For me, it's all about calling out the hypocrisy. He who lives in glass houses. . . I really couldn't give a crap about somebody's religious beliefs, but when religious beliefs, which are without a doubt by choice, are used to oppress me becuase of my sexual-orientation, which is by no means by choice, I have to admit that comedy like this is therapeutic. And, I'm sorry but I spent 40 years of my life being "tolerant" of religious beliefs, but a person can only take so much crap. Yeah, ny mother told me to not fight back when I'm being bullied , but 40 years of stones being hurled at me has made me change my mind - my mom was wrong - fight back!! And besides, if you declare war on a group of people, you can hardly expect to not be criticized. Oh, the self-righteousness.

Close the GayTM. Only give to candidates who have actually done something other than make promises - most are just pandering for our cash.

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by: JohnVisser @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:17:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Mean, ugly and vindictive"

The Christian church has been actively persecuting LGBT people ever since it acquired the political power to do it.  It has imprisoned, tortured, castrated and even executed us, all because of a few random lines in the sacred gook of a tribe of Bronze Age nomads.  And you  have the gall to preach tolerance to us?  That's actually funnier than the Top 10 List.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:45:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Right On My Brother

Close the GayTM. Only give to candidates who have actually done something other than make promises - most are just pandering for our cash.

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by: JohnVisser @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:59:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I never tire of quoting Karl Popper to you guys

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal."

Karl Popper, The Open Society and its Enemies

We have no obligation to tolerate the intolerant.  None whatsoever.  

"If a bullet should go through my head let that bullet go through every closet door."
Harvey Milk

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by: Buffy @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 22:10:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree with the assertion that intolerance

need not be tolerated.

While I like Popper, and was / am hugely influenced by him, and his concept of the Open Society, I disagree with his assertion that

But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.

Not for idealistic reasons, but for practical reasons. IMO, the best way to deal with intolerant views, is by debate, argument, ridicule, satire. Not by suppression which leaves those views unchallenged.

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by: rfloh @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 00:59:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Tolerance <> Agreement

Oh, it's no more mean, ugly, or vindictive than a night of Jeff Foxworthy jokes are to Southern men.

See, the reason why this would be different than, say, "Top Ten Ways You Know You're a Gay Man", is that it is a satire of a chosen set of beliefs, not a blanket generalization of people with a shared inherent trait.

Besides, that list only needs one bullet point:

• You desire men.

The people (like you) offended by that list are offended because someone is pointing out flaws in the logic of the beliefs they have chosen.  My guess is that someone more secure in their faith wouldn't be offended.

But thanks for being a shining illustration of #10:

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

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by: RadicalRuss @ Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 19:18:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'd point out that a lot of non-fundamentalist Christians

believe that prayer can work too.  

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by: Alan71 @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:16:28 PM CDT

So?

A lot of people believe in flying saucers, Bigfoot and the chupacabra, too.  Does that make them real?

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 20:13:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Come on QScribe

Alan's point was not that prayer was real. He was simply pointing out a fact.

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by: shaz4005 @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 23:26:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I believe too!

I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Marinara be upon him. Praise Linguini, Sauce and Holy Gnocchi, Amen.

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by: coram nobis @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 00:42:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

LOL

Now that shit is funny!!!

Close the GayTM. Only give to candidates who have actually done something other than make promises - most are just pandering for our cash.

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by: JohnVisser @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 09:32:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

If you click to see who these people objecting to this post are...

You will see that neither one of them have an email or webpage listed.

One of the bad things about blogs like this is that one person can create multiple accounts and spam the threads with their criticism.

LiZ - Just started commenting today. No email, no webpage.

steviep - Just started commenting today. No email, no webpage.

I suspect that it is the same person with two accounts.

That out of the way...

Making a joke about someone or a group does not constitute intolerance. There has to me malice and an intent to harm.

Satire and humor are often attacked as being intolerance. However, it rarely rises to that level. Just as the new Bruno movie is certain to be offensive to many gay people, it won't be an example of intolerance. In fact, it can be argued that satire can help aid in understanding and encourage tolerance.

A top ten list about the bathroom habits of men would not be viewed as intolerant -- simply a social commentary. This top ten list is the same.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:22:03 PM CDT

I, too, am a Christian

but I do not rely on my beliefs to support bigoted views which promote legalized discrimination against me and my family.

Therein lies the difference.  We have the right to laugh away all we want.  I'm telling the truth when I say I don't want to legalize Christianity's extinction in America.  

They are liars when they insist we are attacking their "Christian" values when anyone who's ever read the Book knows Jesus wouldn't treat homosexuals in the manner  in which these "Christians" so comfortably treat us.

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my people", I argue,  is the moral equivalent of "all [humans] are created equal".

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by: leftypower @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:26:18 PM CDT

Ahhhhh

an intelligent unreactionary comment. Well done.

Close the GayTM. Only give to candidates who have actually done something other than make promises - most are just pandering for our cash.

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by: JohnVisser @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 19:42:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

you know you're a fundamentalist when you know a lot less about the bible....

A well-known phenomenon in some smarter circles. A lot of the more fundy people seem to think that the Sermon on the Mount was by Billy Graham, that Joan of Arc was Noah's wife, that Sodom and Gomorrah were married (!).

http://www.ccel.org/contrib//e...

And of course, no one told the poor dears that King James I (of the KJ Version) was the biggest fairy of the Reformation.

And don't get me started about Jesus and his encounter with the Gabardine Swine.

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by: coram nobis @ Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 22:39:43 PM CDT

Don't forget

Moses walked on water.

That one was from Jason Stackhouse the other night. Grrrrrrr!

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 01:56:13 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Speaking of which

"speaking in tongues" is by far my favorite misconception prevalent in certain denominations.  For someone to portray the "gift" of "tongues" as random sounds is pathetic.  A simple read of the pertinent passages via any translation reveals that (according to Faith) the Spirit gives to some the ability to speak in languages other than those they grew up with.  Some of the texts could be taken to reflect an early explanation of some peoples ability to be easily multilingual, but at least one passage specifically refers to someone speaking in tongues as meaning that as a person spoke to a crowd in his own language of birth, each listener heard the speaker in their own language.  A far cry from the ridiculous, unintelligible babbling that hucksters have foisted upon their congregations.  

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by: sarasnavel @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 02:01:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh they do know that King James was gay

Many fundamentalists are now turning to other translations because of it.  

"They say that time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself." - Andy Warhol



"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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by: TruthandLove @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 03:22:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Are they turning to other translations

because they know James was gay or because a lot of modern "translations" are tailor-made to reinforce their prejudices?

A few years ago some "scholars" published a "translation" of the New Testament that eliminated all references to slavery, for instance.  (They changed "slave" to "servant" and "slavery" to "service.")  Arrant nonsense.  But more and more new "translations" of the Bible seem designed to scrub all the, er, inconvenient bits out of the narrative.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 09:44:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I wish I could find the site again

I can't bookmark everything lol, it was stated on some fundie site that they could no longer feel comfortable using a Bible that was commissioned by a "homosexual" They were mostly turning to the New International Version, I don't know if that one has been scrubbed.......
Lots of comments followed the original piece about what versions they were recommending.  

"They say that time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself." - Andy Warhol



"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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by: TruthandLove @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 16:48:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Interesting.

First time I've heard this.  But it's certainly in character for them.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 21:32:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Biblical translation

It seems to me if God dictates a book and humans write it down, the words they write must be the most perfect possible human transcription of the actual concepts God was dictating.  Any translation of the original into another language is going to lose the accuracy of God's original concepts, much like a joke that is funny in Spanish may not be when translated to German (then again, not much is funny in German.)

That there are any translations of the Bible at all tell me it is not holy.  (This is a concept where I think the Muslims have the Christians beat - don't all copies of the Quran require the original Arabic alongside any translations?)

For some reason, this reminds me of the Infectious Groove lyric "Do unto others / As you'd do unto yourself / Of course for me that's damn easy / Because I hate myself".

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

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by: RadicalRuss @ Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 19:27:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Number 1 is spot on

LOL

"They say that time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself." - Andy Warhol



"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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by: TruthandLove @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 03:20:23 AM CDT

A Perfect Example...

... of a common mistake.  We should respect one another's RIGHT to believe whatever he or she likes.  We are under no obligation whatsoever to respect the BELIEFS THEMSELVES.  

People forget this critical difference when it suits them.

Frankly, there are many beliefs that are not worthy of respect. Still, believe them if you like.  Just don't expect me to erect a satire free zone around them.

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by: DavidinPS @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 10:52:50 AM CDT

I would also add

That if you have a belief, don't assume everyone shares it.  Also, don't use your belief to justify poor treatment of other people, whom your belief system teaches are of less value than you.

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by: Phil @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 11:04:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Robert Heinlein once wrote:

"One man's religion is another man's belly laugh."

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by: Stephanie @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 15:14:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Robert Heinlein also wrote:

Heinlein on Religion

"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child."

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills."

"History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it."

"Of all the strange crimes that humanity has legislated out of nothing, blasphemy is the most amazing - with obscenity and indecent exposure fighting it out for second and third place." (I'd put "controlled substances" up in that list somewhere, too.)

"Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other sins are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful--just stupid.)"

"The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by H.Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history."

"When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you may not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

"It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics."

"A religion is sometime a source of happiness, and I would not deprive anyone of happiness. But it is a comfort appropriate for the weak, not for the strong. The great trouble with religion - any religion - is that a religionist, having accepted certain propositions by faith, cannot thereafter judge those propositions by evidence. One may bask at the warm fire of faith or choose to live in the bleak certainty of reason- but one cannot have both."

And if you let your nine-year-old son read everything the Master wrote by age thirteen, he too may turn out to be a "Radical" Russ.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

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by: RadicalRuss @ Sat Jul 18, 2009 at 19:36:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well said n/t

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by: pgraydon @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 15:55:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

or as I like to put it...

If organzied relgion, especially fundamentalist Christianioty, wants to be respected, maybe it should start acting respectably.

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by: Ben in Oakland @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 11:46:13 AM CDT

I love this thread. . .

Best thing on the web all week!!! And kudos to Ben for the pointing out the obvious but very often overlooked aspect of respectability.

Close the GayTM. Only give to candidates who have actually done something other than make promises - most are just pandering for our cash.

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by: JohnVisser @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 12:17:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Mark Twain was here a century before us

You want reflections on Christian hypocrisy, the nastier parts of the Old Testament, and a harpoon into the loudly pious, read Mark Twain, esp. his Letters from the Earth, Letter to the Earth, and the War Prayer. In his final decade or so, he was a piercing observer.

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by: coram nobis @ Fri Jul 03, 2009 at 22:16:47 PM CDT

Shhh!

Mark Twain is an American icon.  We mustn't ever hint that he was in any way critical of the established order.  Let's be good, patriotic, Christian citizens and keep it to ourselves.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Sat Jul 04, 2009 at 11:59:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I've met a few seriously fundementalist Christians

They came from conservative Pentacostal congregations.
One was a decon at MCC, one founded MCC, and one was my favorite MCC minister, (she delved into the 6 admonishments and did an entire series of sermons that were breathtaking.)
The deacon had survived ex-gay ministries and such self loathing he had submitted to electro-shock treatments.

So for me, even though funadmentalism wasn't my background, and some of the "bathed in the blood" stuff gives me huge ICKS, I don't lump those I admire in with hateful folks like Anderson or Phelps.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 22:35:24 PM CDT