Dropping One's Pants To Prove One's Sex

How sad. (yet predictable)

Of course this is the same Social Security Administration which has a policy of denying ALL initial disability claims.

I have worked in the private disability market for a dozen years and counsel my clients to have at least 24 months of private disability coverage in place.

The average time it takes to get SSA to agee that ANYONE is disabled is 18 months - this includes those who are in comas and quad parapalegics.

The SSA definition of 'disabled' in lesser cases is "unable to do any job of any kind anywhere in the country"  an almost insurmountable hurdle.

And everyone who works is required to pay "Premiums" for this "insurance".  


Question:  What does an atheist do when they fall to the floor and start "speaking in tongues"?

Answer: Get a CAT scan.

---

by: Snooky Ookums @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 08:32:26 AM CDT

If we're truly in "reboot" mode...

Then why did you re-title the other person's blog entry using the "[Cissexual]" phraseology.  The actual title of this other person's blog post is:

The Non-Trans Privilege Checklist

Seems rather more provocative than productive.

---

by: txmichael @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 09:25:47 AM CDT

I'd like to know the answer to that, as well.

Re-writing another person's work to suit your agenda?

I thought "reboot week" was about asserting credibility, allowing free speech, and having an open and honest conversation.  How does re-writing somebody else's work without their permission accomplish any of these goals?

I say this as someone who has repeatedly and accurately complimented you over the last few months: I'm shocked that you would trash another author's work and you should be ashamed of yourself.

---

by: diablorobotico @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 12:12:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Just out of curiosity...

What do you think of the actions of the SSA in hassling this individual?

Hate stops a beating heart.

---

by: KarenS @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 13:04:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

As someone who wrote the non-discrimination policy for the company

I can tell you that the SSA person involved in this situation would be looking for new employment.

I would also be looking to see what the procedures manual said or didn't say about how situations like this should be handled and whether or not additional directions / training might be needed from a systemic standpoint.

---

by: txmichael @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 13:34:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you!

:)

I just think folks need to remember the dignity of other people.  I don't know if you can train someone to respect others on the inside, but they can be taught to show it.

Often, the brighter ones look at themselves, and over time, they can look at the situation from the standpoint  of how they would want to be treated, rather than from how they were treated, or have seen someone else treat others.


Hate stops a beating heart.

---

by: KarenS @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 14:19:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sweet Mother of Pearl!

That really pisses me off.  Shame on you, Autumn.  Honestly, what would possess you to be that controlling?  This really deserves an answer.

You don't like the way someone words something. Then don't link to it. Or make a note about why the wording was so offensive that you just had to change it.

---

by: Pollyanna @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 15:36:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh for FUCK's sake!!!

First people are crying and whining that Autumn won't let them use the word 'cissexual' and now they are complaining when she uses the word.

NO, she did not re-title the other person's blog entry. NO, she did not re-write another person's work. NO, she is not been controlling. She made a hyperlink and when you make a hyperlink, you can use whatever text you want.

Take a look at any other story here on the Blend or any other blog. How often is the link text the same as the headline of the news story or blog entry it links to? Almost never! And she even did the courtesy of inserting the word she used in square brackets.

I have been a daily reader of the Blend for almost 5 years now. It has grown and it isn't quite the same cozy little coffee house it used to be, but the thing that has kept me coming back here is the civility and quality of discussion.

But this past week, this place has turned into a sewer. And now you people are hijacking threads just to gang up and bash Autumn for every little thing she does. (I'm particularly disappointed with Dyssonance and Pollyanna since you both have been quality contributors in the past.)

Well since moderation is off and anything goes, I am going to use language I normally never use neither online or in real life:
If you fucking whiny assholes don't like what is being written on this blog, then GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!! (See, I can use whatever text I want for a hyperlink.)

There are 10 million other blogs on the WWW and no one is forcing you to come here. You are ruining this place for the rest of us.

Gawd, I can't wait until the 9th and have Pam bounce these emotionally stunted trolls out of here, because if they keep this up, the Blend is going to be losing a lot of its more serious readers.

I just came back from my local Pride celebration where I proudly marched in the parade with my Quaker friends and enjoyed the festivities. There were L's, T's, G's, B's and A's there and all sorts of people in between. And guess what? Not a single one of them was fighting, whining or complaining about anyone else. The I get home and check the Blend and get all this bullshit harshing my buzz.

Feh.

---

by: Stephanie @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 19:14:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Your what hurts?

First people are crying and whining that Autumn won't let them use the word 'cissexual' and now they are complaining when she uses the word.

But those would be different people, right?  With different viewpoints? About recent contentious subjects?

NO, she did not re-title the other person's blog entry.

YES, she did re-title the other person's blog entry. She changed the title from
The Non-Trans Privilege Checklist
to
The [Cissexual] Privilege Checklist.
Are you being purposely dishonest or are you just dense? Particularly given all that's happened here around the word "cis," it just makes me wonder about her judgement and intent. And your honesty, now.

How often is the link text the same as the headline of the news story or blog entry it links to?

That is not the same issue. Autumn places great stock in trying to follow standard journalistic practice. When you specifically quote a title, you simply do not change it. If she had been doing what you are describing it would be something like this:

Further reading:
Alas A Blog: there's a checklist on cissexual privilege on this blog (Especially check out the first two items on the list as these relate to this story)

See the difference?  That way you don't change the author's title even though you are inserting your preferred terminology.

But this past week, this place has turned into a sewer. And now you people are hijacking threads just to gang up and bash Autumn for every little thing she does.

Correct analysis; wrong people being spanked here. If you really believe the three of us objecting in this thread are the ones who have turned this site upside down in the past week, then you're telling me that you haven't been following along very closely.

(I'm particularly disappointed with Dyssonance and Pollyanna since you both have been quality contributors in the past.)

I am shocked for two reasons. First, I totally reject that I have contributed to the recent asshattery other than one specific response to someone who was ridiculing my choice of words.  Second, the last time I recall you directing any communication my way was long ago when you told me I reminded you of James Dobson or some such person. After that, I made a mental note to never respond to you again.

If you fucking whiny assholes don't like what is being written on this blog, then GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!!

Thanks for doing your part to make the Blend what you want to read.  By the way, I'm not going anywhere.  Too bad for you, I guess.

---

by: Pollyanna @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 20:49:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Pettiness about a triviality

Click the link. Has that page been changed by Autumn? No, it hasn't. That blog entry still has its original title. All she did was substitute a word in the hyperlink text, which she clearly delineated with square brackets. That is her right as the writer of this blog entry. There is nothing sinister or underhanded or journalistically disingenuous about it.

Attacking her for doing this is so petty.

No, I haven't been following along very closely. Over 1000 posts in the various threads of hostile people yelling at each other isn't worth the headache. From what I did read, though, you are correct that you were not a contributor to the asshattery (where the heck did that word come from anyway?), but in this thread you are guilty of piling on and making a big deal about this triviality.

And my comparing you to Dobson was something like 2 years ago. How long do you hold grudges over such tiny things? Just because I disagreed with you one time in the distant past, doesn't mean I've disagreed with everything you have written since. Quite the opposite in fact.

Like I said, I don't normally talk or write like that. I guess all the petty hostility around here lately is infecting me. I promise I won't write like that anymore, even during this unmoderated period.

---

by: Stephanie @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 21:59:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Okay.

---

by: Pollyanna @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 22:43:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Gah.

Ok, I will defend Autumn here. Fortunately, I don't think she will see it, so I should be safe for the moment.

Would have sooner, but didn't see this until now.

She changed it, because (like I did when I posted the same list in a diary a short while ago that has been buried and that she found useful), it is more accurate a terminology and I believe she was attempting to indicate something to her peers about her current position -- indeed, I believe she made a pointed effort in this posting and was doing so in order to show something.

Given the nature of her particular position right now, it was a face saving effort, basically, and she should not be faulted for that, not for updating the title, which even Alas has considered since they at least understand the word's meaning and value.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

---

by: dyssonance @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 23:50:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Is it me or is the initial story lacking?

It just basically notes that a citizen got angry b/c her gender was questioned and her only recourse was to show her equipment, except it didn't really represent it that way.  Why was someone in the SS office arguing with her about her gender and why was this not detailed in the story - to make the victim look bad and exculpate the SS employee?

---

by: ol cranky @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 09:39:40 AM CDT

I agree

It seems to me that this story is written using a particularly offensive and patronizing journalistic template: "news of the odd." It isn't about exploring trans issues or even reporting fully on the incident. It's basically about comic relief, from the reporter's and editor's perspective.

---

by: uh_huhh @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 11:39:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The comments section under the article...

...pretty much reflects the tenor of the article itself.  How nice it must to be to turn someone's lifetime of struggle into a momentary titter.

Hate stops a beating heart.

---

by: KarenS @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 13:11:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The comments section under the article...

...pretty much reflects the tenor of the article itself.  How nice it must to be to turn someone's lifetime of struggle into a momentary titter.

Hate stops a beating heart.

---

by: KarenS @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 13:11:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The "Non-Trans" Privilege Checklist...

...is a helpful resource. I'm, frankly, skeptical of accusations of privilege because, around here, they are so overused as to have lost much of their force. Here, they are often used as a substitute for substance. But this list does a nice job of compiling things that are fairly non-contestable and offering at least a little explanation.

BTW, having grown up near Clarksville, Tenn., I can attest that it is a right-wing pit. It's next to a large military base (Ft. Campbell, Ky.), which has made its culture conservative, Republican, jingoistic, and homophobic.

---

by: uh_huhh @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 11:37:02 AM CDT

It is not over, Autumn, and no, you are not

allowed to simply assume that it is and move on without people taking the time to remind you that you owe the entire trans community an apology for your actions and words over the last several days.

The fact that this story is now a week old, and that its been covered by better writers in better locations by better people who actually gave a damn long before you considered to try using it as yet another example of avoidance of your own culpability, really just goes to show that you have reached a point in your attempts to represent anything approximating trans life where you will automatically fail the moment you step outside of self referential.

Stick to talking strictly and only about yourself, Autumn.  The rest of us no longer give a damn.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

---

by: dyssonance @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 12:20:51 PM CDT

WTF... Shut TF dyssonance, ... enough of your snobbery.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 16:37:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No.

Its not snobbery, either, Orion.

For it to be that, I would have to consider myself better than she, and I do not do so.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

---

by: dyssonance @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 23:24:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is horrible

I hope the Social Security Troll is disciplined and trained how to do their damn job.

I hope the woman that was charged has all charges dropped.  What else was she to do?  

Crap like this makes me so angry.  My heart is with the woman that had to go through such torment and embarrassment.

Finally, on a side not, what the heck is a "Cissexual?"

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

---

by: becca @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 12:38:06 PM CDT

Becca do not go there

Use Google and educate yourself. Trans people weren't put on earth to educate you about their oppression. It's your responsibility to get yourself informed about your own privilege if you're going to comment on a post about trans discrimination.

Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

---

by: Hypatia @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 15:56:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What is wrong with asking a question?

It's your responsibility to get yourself informed about your own privilege

What privilege would that be? I don't know what the word means. It's been used a lot here lately and without definition.

Is it now transphobic to answer questions?  What is going on here? Especially after an initial post of in support of the woman that had to go through all that hardship at the Social Security office.

What does cisgendered me?
What does the "cis" stand for?
When did this come into fashion?  Last week?
What is it's etymology?
Why did you vilify my?

Am I the only one confused here?

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

---

by: becca @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 19:35:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

There was nothing wrong with asking the question

---

by: uh_huhh @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 19:43:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you for saying that

I was totally floored by what Hypatia wrote. It was really offensive and upsetting.

What did I do?

You know, it's becoming really hard around here to support the Trans people when every single time we show our support and write something supportive we are attacked if we ask a question or do not use the trans approved secret codes in our post or don't show our support in the appropriately worded way.

It's becoming very Sally Kern-ish in it's batshittery.

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

---

by: becca @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 19:53:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

See my description of these words below for my take

There is a good deal of frustration running in all directions around here. I'm in no position to give advice because I can push back aggressively too. I sometimes feel what you're feeling too, but I say learn what you can from people whose views are at odds with you but don't take the snideness from some too personally. And, of course, keep squarely in mind any non-cyber friends you have who are transgender when you're stung here and start thinkng about recalibrating your support. Those relationships are often more real.

---

by: uh_huhh @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 20:28:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank You for your support today

I really need it!  Especially since I have trans friend that I love like a sister and I have dated two FTMs in my life whom I loved deeply and passionately and am still close with.

I've shown them what's been going on here lately and they are just as lost as I am.  Or as you said...

And, of course, keep squarely in mind any non-cyber friends you have who are transgender when you're stung here and start thinkng about recalibrating your support. Those relationships are often more real.

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

---

by: becca @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 20:49:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Privilege

Certain benefits derived from being a member of a particular class that possesses a quality which the cultural systems reinforce.

Male privilege is an example of such. White Privilege is another example. THere is even Heterosexual Privilege.

By its nature it is invisible to the beneficiary of such until pointed out.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

---

by: dyssonance @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 00:43:34 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sorry, Becca

I read your question wrongly. The Blend has been in turmoil for the past week over that one word. The entire site, and the way it's run, has been shaken up but good. Feelings are still freshly sore and several Blenders have been at each other's throats. Cries of rage have been resounding through several other blogs. All because of that one word.

OK, maybe you honestly missed all that. Maybe you innocently stepped smack on top of the big mine in this minefield. So that you were not deliberately out to aggravate all the raw feelings all over again.

I apologize for going off on you like that. I was concerned that the recent civil war in this blog was about to be flared up again.

As for looking it up yourself, I still think that was good advice. I'm using Firefox. On Firefox, you can select any word or phrase and right-click it, and a new window with a search of the term in Google or Wikipedia is immediately created. A Google search has the whole article on Wikipedia at the top, followed by tons of definitions on other sites. I've gotten into the habit of looking up everything for myself that way, because it's so easy and automatic, and it's way quicker than waiting for an answer. I suggested looking it up in preference to possibly inflaming the raw nerves around that word.

Now I've come to understand I need to check my Firefox privilege. IE users don't even know the ease of lookups they've been missing.

Once again, I apologize.

Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

---

by: Hypatia @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 01:06:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you for that

Hypatia,

OK, maybe you honestly missed all that. Maybe you innocently stepped smack on top of the big mine in this minefield. So that you were not deliberately out to aggravate all the raw feelings all over again.

That is exactly what happened. My question was sincere and innocent.

Thank you for the sorry.

hugs
becca

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

---

by: becca @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 09:28:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

You would be wrong Hypatia...

The greatest civil rights leaders we have known...MLK, Ghandi, Desmond Tutu, etc. would never pass up a chance to educate and promote understanding.

---

by: Will St. James @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 20:33:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No

There is a growing consensus among marginalized, oppressed groups that it isn't our responsibility to go around educating. Here we have the burden of just trying to survive, and the privileged group insists we use up our time explaining over and over to people how our oppression works? The burdens we already have aren't enough, now from your position of privilege you're going to load another burden on us because you're too lazy to look up information yourself? No. If you're serious about being an ally, it's incumbent on you to do your own research instead of making us do your work for you.  

Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

---

by: Hypatia @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 01:39:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

We just disagree then...

We just disagree on how to move a movement forward then.  It doesn't mean that either of our views are wrong and it may be a combination of the two that works (see my comment about isolation below).  

I did at least try to go back and review the issue (my comment was in support of someone who had not) even though I came in late.  It forced me to contemplate the idea that an implied "privilege" is tied to a word used to describe a group.  I had never contemplated that before.  For instance, I never had the view that the word straight automatically implied someone who had a better privileged status than I did; because I know straight people who do not have a better privilege than I do and the word by itself is incomplete.  If you said there is a straight white rich male who inherited his money then I could definitely point to privilege on multiple levels, but if you said straight black poor women born in an oppressive Southern town, I would not invoke privileged status on that person.

I guess that is why I think implied privilege is dangerous to a cause because of its incompletness.  You have to add more and more information to get to privilege.  For instance, there is a transgender male in the Northwest who got married and fathered his own children (I wish I could do that).  To me, he would have more privilege (although on different levels) than myself who is a white gay male born into poverty living in the south in an area where if they knew I was gay, it would get me marginalized or possibly murdered.  I am in the "just trying to survive" boat just as you but my circumstances make my story different from yours.  

An extreme situation but nevertheless it shows the complexity of using titles to imply privilege.  Do I think we should not be talking about privilege?  Absolutely not!  But to label and assume privilege as you did to me is a dangerous practice that could segregate (dice and slice) our community at a critical time in our movement.  Do I think I have more privilege than most T persons?  Yes, generally I would have to say so especially if you consider adolescence and my ability to blend in (Although I do have two T friends who are beautiful and blend in better than I do in adulthood, I'm not all that good looking).  Once again another trait (appearance) that goes to determine privilege.

It is a complex issue with many viewpoints which is why I guess it caused such a stir.  All I know is that this past week I learned a new word and I am trying to understand its meaning (both stated and implied) and I think others are trying to understand it as I am because they do care about the struggle of our T friends and the issues that make their lives miserable.

---

by: Will St. James @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 11:32:36 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Odd.

I don't see you listing Malcom X in there.

He pretty much said that it was the job of the oppressor to do the hard work of learning.

And MLK agreed with him on that one.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

---

by: dyssonance @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 02:22:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The learning part yes...

You are right the oppressor has the job of learning , but I never knew Malcom or MLK to pass up an opportunity to educate.  I have never seem an example of them doing so.

They used rallies, marches, pulpits, and on and on to get out their message.  Ghandi had reporters following him and never passed up opportunities to engage even with his jailers.  I think it was through the tiresome marches and the images of brutality by the news outlets in both of these movements that swung the battles to their advantage.

But I can understand the movements position and it might actually work for a short time.  By stepping back and not engaging (isolation) it has stirred the pot and sent the message "Hey we are not happy, we are being overlooked, and we are mad as hell."  It forces even the movements allies to step back and reexamine the situation.  But I would caution that it could go badly if allowed to go on too long after the initial advantage has worn off.

---

by: Will St. James @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 10:46:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Its not isolating, however.

Its making one's self visible and letting you come to us (so to speak, not specifically).

When the oppressed class is visible and consistent in making their displeasure known, the oppressor's  should be asking questions.

We don't withdraw.  We wait for you to make the next move.

And that is something that was done and is done, and it works really well.

For example, I specifically hold myself available to answer any question at all times. And I listen, for those questions left unasked, as well -- but being there and open and honest isn't enogh unless I poke you a few times.

Eventually you'll ask "why are you poking me?"

And then the questions have begum.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

---

by: dyssonance @ Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 06:07:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I know Hypatia's style

and she is being sarcastic, to make a point, and one that I personally thought that she made effectively.

Subtelty is slightly diminished here recently

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

---

by: MauraHennessey @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 21:14:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I am the Queen of Sarcasm...

..it's a result of being raised by a large Cop family.

There was none in Hypatia's post.

Can you elucidate?

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

---

by: becca @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 21:34:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Neither you nor Will read Hypatia's post incorrectly.

She was serious. On the other hand, becca, I am convinced that you were the one being sarcastic. You're aware of what's been going on around here, right? You knew what the term meant or you knew how to use teh Goggle. You were trying make a point.  Fair enough.  The "what is wrong with asking a question" sounded disingenuous to me.

Just my unasked for $0.02

---

by: Pollyanna @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 21:57:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

NO NO NO!

On the other hand, becca, I am convinced that you were the one being sarcastic. You're aware of what's been going on around here, right? You knew what the term meant or you knew how to use teh Goggle. You were trying make a point.

Honestly, what the hell is cisgendered?

I was completely honest, open and non-confrontational.  I cannot believe my extremely innocent quest for knowledge has turned into a donnybrook.

Can someone please tell me what the fuck a cisgendered person is?  Specifically...

What does cisgendered me?
What does the "cis" stand for?
When did this come into fashion?  Last week?
What is it's etymology?  

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

---

by: becca @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 22:28:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Okay.

---

by: Pollyanna @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 22:48:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh thanks

That makes so much sense.  Glad you cleared up that for me.

Now, will anyone tell me what cisgendered means or do you all want to have your own little party and secret handshake and then wonder why nobody gives a damn about your plight?

Great PR going on here this evening!  A+ Cluster Fuck. This tactic will win Hearts & Minds how exactly????????????????

What have I learned this evening?
* If you go out of your way to support the Trans community you will be ridiculed for it.
* If you ask an honest question in the quest for knowledge and to support people then you are an evil person.
* If you are honest then those that don't believe your honesty turn into cats running into walls out of fear.

Yeah! Great! Keep that tactic up.  You'll have a huge following in no time.  NOT!


Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

---

by: becca @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 23:27:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Don't shoot!

---

by: Pollyanna @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 23:43:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

ruh-roh

I shoulda scaled the size of that down a tad. Sorry.

---

by: Pollyanna @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 23:45:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Eh.

I think the scale is fine.

One might even say, um, proportional, lol

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

---

by: dyssonance @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 23:52:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

and still...

I don't know what cisgendered means.  

I also find that picture offensive.  I am a Firearms, Self-Defense and Use of Force Instructor.  That picture is horrible and disturbing.  

First his finger is on the trigger.  You NEVER put your finger on a trigger unless you are willing to destroy or kill something (hopefully never) and that person has their finger on the trigger pointed at a kitten.

You find that humorous?

Have you ever been shot?  stabbed?  beaten within an inch of your life and resuscitated?  I've experienced all three.

Pointing a Beretta, Stainless, 9mm Semi-Automatic weapon at a kitten is just not that funny.

Oh yeah, and my question still stands, What does "cisgendered" mean?

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

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by: becca @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 00:02:44 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

IT was answered.

I did so, and just a short while ago.  Look through the responses.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 00:06:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

>>

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by: Pollyanna @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 00:21:51 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

OH MY GOD!

I love that picture.  When I got Freyja she looked exactly like the sniper kitty.  Everyone that knows me said, that has to be Becca's kitty.  She's already a sniper.  You know Becca taught her how to do it.  LOL.

Thanks for making me laugh amid an evening of confusion.

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

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by: becca @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 00:30:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think it was Kevinchi..

or possibly Keori I was talking to in another thread where I pointed out that nothing survives a lolcat bombing.

Your implementation was exquisite, btw.  Hat's off to you.

Makes me think I should set up a full structure for use of them in the future.

Just in case.

Ya know how I'm always getting into trouble and being banned and called a bully, or pedantic, or paternalistic, or snobbish, or ...

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 00:38:51 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

NO ONE EXPECTS THE LOLCAT BOMBING!

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 03:27:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Honestly...

It is someone who is not gender variant.

Yes, I can, and just did.

Cisgendered means a person who is not gender variant.

It stands for "same", but the structural use is "gender congruent".

Mid 1990's. No.

Cis + gender (ed) -- same/on the side of/similar plus gender

Thar ya be :D

(the fight going on around the use of the terminology, but really is about the nature of privilege, which the use of cis* allows to be highlighted).

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 23:43:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

huh?

How is anyone in the LGBT community not gender variant?

I love, date, am currently dating a stone butch dyke.  So butch that they use male names and pronouns but are not and and never will be Female-To-Male.  They will always be female and proud of it, but stone butch.

So, are they cisgendered because they are "gender variant" or are they just stone butch dykes because they will never be trans men?

See why I am so confused?

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

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by: becca @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 00:12:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Absolutely.

That is to say, I can absolutely see why you are confused.

Then again, you actually thought about it and commented on such.

This is why I noted that the argument is really about privilege, but people rarely want to get to the point where that can be talked as a subject because it makes them uncomfortable.

She may not be cisgender.  But she does benefit from cisgender privilege -- and not intersectionally, either.

A lot of people want to take that as somehow being something "bad" -- often because the term oppression is linked to it and they don't see themselves as being oppressors or dislike being associated with an oppressing class.

Both of which are irrelevant.  I am not an oppressive person nor do I see myself as oppressive, but I nevertheless benefit from heterosexual privilege and am part of an oppressive class (heterosexuals).

Does that make me a bad person?

No. (Okay, disclosure: I may be a bad person, overall, and I don't think I would have to argue too hard to establish that right now a great many people here see me as such.)

Privilege comes as part of a system, and in this case it is a cultural one, and by naming that class which receives the culturally enhanced privilege we can now discuss it, despite the discomfort caused by such.

Now, it is not cut and dried.  As a pretty darn well respected expert on the subject, Lisa Harney describes the effect of this as follows:

There's some other stuff too - I don't think it's a strict binary where you're EITHER cisgender or cissexual OR transgender or transsexual, and of course transgender and transsexual or cisgender and cissexual do not mean the same thing (which you pointed out, but I wanted to expand). There's pretty much room for any kind of gender identification (some butch lesbian and lesbian bois don't identify as trans in any way, but cis doesn't fit them either, and I don't think all genderqueer people position themselves as trans).

But in general, it's not really hard to tell when someone's benefiting from either kind of cis privilege.

So what she is is not quite as important as does she benefit from cis privilege, and if so, is she aware of it.

And she may well be so -- but unable to define it, and therefore express it in a consistent and reasoned manner without overt ambiguity.


http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 00:28:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Privilege

A lot of people want to take that as somehow being something "bad" -- often because the term oppression is linked to it and they don't see themselves as being oppressors or dislike being associated with an oppressing class.

This is why I feel that the term "privilege" is overused in our community. People don't choose their privileged status. A white person didn't choose to be white. A man didn't choose to be a man. While it's important for people to be aware of their privilege, we certainly don't want to beat them over the head with it. That accomplishes nothing.

In any given society, the majority always experiences a privilege simply because they are the majority. In some cases, they are at least partly aware of their privilege. Anyone who sees a blind person is instantly reminded of the privilege of being sighted, for example. In other cases, of course, the privilege is less obvious, and reams of papers and tons of books need to be written about it so that the privileged can educate themselves. But first, they have to have the desire to learn.

Tax the Christian Taliban!

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by: Wolfgang @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 05:54:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Whatever

being a White Male is a choice. There is no proof that its genetic. There is no "White" gene, let alone a "Male" gene.

Stop trying to push your "agenda" on the rest of us. If you give yourself to God and pray hard enough, he will help you out of the "White Male" lifestyle.

Help defend equality, visit One Kalamazoo http://www.onekalamazoo.com/

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by: Mattkazoo @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 09:44:49 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Of course it's genetic

Genes control how much melanin is in the skin, the structure of facial bones, the color of the eyes and hair, etc. To suggest that the various forms that the human body has taken in different geographic regions has no basis in genetics is ridiculous. If that were so, a Japanese couple could just as likely produce an Inuit or African child as a Japanese one.

And of course there's a male gene. It's called the SRY. I don't have one, by the way. I don't even have a Y chromosome. But please excuse my white, trans-male privilege anyway.

Tax the Christian Taliban!

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by: Wolfgang @ Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 16:37:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

sigh

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 21:08:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks

I had been looking for an explanation of this cis-stuff.
Another label I just as much avoid.  

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by: LiZ @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 10:45:38 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

If that is true, my utmost apologies ...

After re-reading the piece with a sarcastic slant, I can see it.  But maybe next time add a (sarcasm off) comment or something so dumb people like me do not take it the wrong way.

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by: Will St. James @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 21:36:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks, Maura, but

I actually wasn't being sarcastic, I was just being bitchy. I acknowledge it was not cool of me, and I own it. And I've apologized to Becca for it.

Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

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by: Hypatia @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 01:08:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Cissexual

is the term used for someone who is non-trans. That is all it means.

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by: ojrocks @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 16:14:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

SIgh

I just woke up, cisgender is someone who is not transgender, cissexual is someone who is not transsexual.

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by: ojrocks @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 16:18:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

But they're more like a patois for now

To describe the cis constructs as merely standard words for people who are not transgender overlooks some complexity. The words are kind of in-group jargon among transfolk and some close allies.

To me, the phenomenon has a lot in common with Jews calling non-Jews goyim, or Native Hawaiians calling white people haole. Those, too, can be merely descriptive or can have disparaging usages. And they are part of a particular group's patois.

As with goyim and haole, I don't really take offense at the cis constructs, but they aren't words that I chose for myself and aren't part of my self-identity. Some pressure to do "own" them has been a source of controversy here.

Some advocates aspire to have these cis constructs emerge as standard English, but they haven't yet. For now, it is enough to affirm that the cis words are lingo in the transgender community for people who are not trangender and leave things at that. I can use goyim too, when I'm talking to Jewish friends even if it isn't part of my own self-identity as a non-Jew.

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by: uh_huhh @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 20:21:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It depends on the usage

I have local friends who use haole as a term of endearment, and I have had haole bitch spat at me by red shirt-clad christians during the 2009 Hawaii civil unions debate.

It's true. I am a haole. And I am a bitch. ;) And I'm not ashamed of either. But only one usage of the term was part of a death threat. Only one usage of the term was rolled up in the concept of white colonial devil who brought that filthy gay to our islands. (Despite the long history of the aikane and mahu in Hawaiian culture. But that's another diary.)

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 03:37:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not quite

I am cisgendered and have been using cisgendered for over 10 years now. I have gotten many people who are not trans, and aren't even aware of most trans issues using cis.

In my very personal opinion, just a simple answer is the best way to present it. If you go into in-group usage or issues of privilege it may go over peoples heads.

Unless you need the complexity, it's wasted. It just takes a few seconds to explain what it means to someone who doesn't need to know everything behind it.  

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by: ojrocks @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 04:45:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Question of authority

But your simple explanation give the words more authority than they command. Yours is a political act of establishing the word, presented as merely conveying a meaning.

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by: uh_huhh @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 12:12:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No

It's defining a word so someone knows what it means. It's all it is, really. Like a dictionary. After reading the simple meaning, if someone wants to know more, they can look it up. Then they can add in the complexities.

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by: ojrocks @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 18:02:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Interesting Article

and kudos to the woman who did this; took guts and it made a point, a very personalised protest.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 14:28:14 PM CDT

Very Gutsy...

:)

Hate stops a beating heart.

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by: KarenS @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 17:18:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agrre, yet...

I question why she had to go to what I feel is an extreme to make the point, and believe that she became enraged and is essentially being dealt the physical equivalent of a tone argument in being carted off to jail for Indecent exposure.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 23:45:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I wouldn't

have taken that approach, it doesn't speak positively to one's credibility.

It doesn't take much to satisfy the SS's requirements, sometimes it does take a little patients because the droids behind the counter are noted for being able to comprehend English.  

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by: LiZ @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 10:49:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

CIS!

I'll use the word 'cisgen' if I bloody well want!  If Mainstreamers are going to refer to me as a 'tranny', I feel every right to reply in kind.

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by: RadarGrrl @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 21:59:56 PM CDT

Why is my head hurting

Nevermind...

o_O

Dena

Cisgender. Because "Genetic" is so 2006.

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by: Denabeth @ Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 23:00:20 PM CDT

I thought this tread was about

someone having an altercation with an employee with Social Security over their gender.

So, why does it seem this happens to any thread concerning Autumn?

Please, can we stay on track?

Dena

Cisgender. Because "Genetic" is so 2006.

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by: Denabeth @ Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 10:52:34 AM CDT

Had she done the right thing, it would have

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 06:11:39 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

You seem to be the one

running theads off the rails.

Dena

Cisgender. Because "Genetic" is so 2006.

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by: Denabeth @ Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 11:20:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

well

that's sorta what people have said about many.

So I'm in good company, if indeed that's what I am doing.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 13:29:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

privilege isn't one-dimensional

The intersecting levels of privilege in any one individual are complex. That's why intersectionality is key to dealing with this matter. It allows us to focus on ending oppression and to lay off of each other.

Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

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by: Hypatia @ Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 03:45:43 AM CDT

When they care, they will come

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 06:10:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Precisely

I think intersectionality is important area of study. If we hope to ever truly level the playing field and become a just society, we need to look at all the factors that are involved in inequality.

Tax the Christian Taliban!

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by: Wolfgang @ Tue Jul 07, 2009 at 16:52:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]