Changing Hearts and Minds One Wedding at a Time

Eh....

No matter how "supportive" someone may be of me, I'll always have respect for heterosexual couples who forego marriage just because same-sex couples cannot receive the legal benefits of marriage.

It's nice the little bigot opened his mind but we have a long way to.

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by: PurpleLove08 @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 06:24:19 AM CDT

Its still a journey

The path doesn't get shorter nor the journey easier because we grissle about it. But I tell you wait, its a lot easier to travel if I don't have to deal with sour grapes on both sides.

Always thinking about it...

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by: kudo451 @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:46:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

My answer would be

No. To the little bigot. I would have said no.

It's not our obligation to fix stupid people.

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by: Eshto @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:30:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

teaching moments...

are all around us and I applaud you and your husband for using this situation to do so! showing love is a way bigger expression then screaming back and forth and being ugly to one another...kudos to you!

"They drew a circle that shut me out Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout. But love and I had the wit to win; We drew a circle that took them in." -Edwin Markham

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by: kara1215 @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:41:30 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

and i think...

it fits perfect with my sig quote! one of my fave =)

"They drew a circle that shut me out Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout. But love and I had the wit to win; We drew a circle that took them in." -Edwin Markham

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by: kara1215 @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:42:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

How in the world did you get this from that story?

A guy completely reverses his outlook on anti-gay bigotry all on his own and he's stupid and needs to be fixed?

Sounds like he's smart and just needed an in-person good example.

Would the guy have reached the same conclusion if it was you who was at that wedding?

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by: diablorobotico @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 12:29:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

probably not

I wouldn't have been at the wedding.

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by: PurpleLove08 @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 12:52:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I wouldn't expect same-sex couples to forego marriage if marriage were denied to me because I was single and simply had no one to marry.

It wouldn't make any sense.  Neither does expecting opposite-sex couples to not marry because I can't in their state.  Or are the people in marriage equality states also supposed to live their lives for me because my marriage wouldn't be recognized on a federal level, too?  None of that would take me one step closer to being legally married.

I don't need other people to delay their happiness or not take all available steps to protect themselves, their partner and their family just because I'm not able to yet.

And god forbid people change, learn, evolve or grow, because we certainly don't want that!

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by: diablorobotico @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 12:26:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you for sharing this!

You describe a "conversion experience" much like St. Paul's when he fell off his horse while he was on his way to Damascus to persecute Christians, or like St. Francis when he got down from his own horse, and hugged the leper.

Your "evangelical" came down from his high horse, it seems.

You never know how, or when, or where, someone will see the light and realize that a core belief was just so wrong.

You touched that man's soul, and the blindness left him - not all of "them" (Christianists) are so hard of heart that they are beyond redemption.

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by: Joann Prinzivalli @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:54:22 AM CDT

Christians

They are Christians. I hate when people call them Christianists, as if they are vastly different from other Christians. They aren't. They are all Christians. Different interpretations, but same religion, same story, same deity, same overall values. Christians.

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by: Eshto @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:31:41 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree...

Thanks for pointing this out.

It is like how people who were Republicans for years  suddenly tried to distance themselves from the Bush administration when his numbers tanked.

"They aren't REAL Republicans!  I'm a real Republican!!"

Surprised they didn't start calling him a Republicanist.

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by: DavidinPS @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 11:07:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Christianist is something completely different from Christian.

The definition of Christianist is different from what you seem to indicate you think it is.  I can't believe I'm quoting Andrew Sullivan or endorsing anything that came from his mind, but he got this one right:

"So let me suggest that we take back the word Christian while giving the religious right a new adjective: Christianist. Christianity, in this view, is simply a faith. Christianism is an ideology, politics, an ism. The distinction between Christian and Christianist echoes the distinction we make between Muslim and Islamist. Muslims are those who follow Islam. Islamists are those who want to wield Islam as a political force and conflate state and mosque."

It's an important, valid and accurate distinction.  I wish Christianists didn't exist, either, but they do and it's necessary to identify them as such.

Christianists.  Not Christians.  Two different things, although one could be both.

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by: diablorobotico @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 12:41:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Political Correctness

Islamist have the philosophy based on the Qur'an and the words of Mohammed, and Christianists are still Christian with a strong belief in "The Bible" as the word of God, no matter how moderates want to define fundamentalists.  Likewise, Zionists have their philosophy based on the teachings of Judaism.
Problem is, moderate Muslim's are not critical of those with extreme political/faith.  Some gay christians such as Sullivan are critical of fundamental Christians, but the majority of moderate Christians just let the others rage on without obection.  I never have heard Bishop Gene Robinson outrightly attacking the 700 club, or Pastor Harry Knox attacking fundamentalists in Obama's faith based initiative.  Bruce Bawer has written a book about the harm of religious political correctness to freedom.  The book has gotten mixed reviews, but it is worth reading.

Same-Sex Marriage is good for the economy.

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by: CharlesMerrill @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 13:26:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

But that was the point of the post.

You may agree or not, but we are saying they aren't separable and that doing so is disingenuous, inaccurate and merely an attempt to distance oneself from members of the faith one finds distasteful.

Besides, Andrew's definition is very flawed.  Is there really such a thing as Christianity (or any religion for that matter) that is "simply a faith?" Maybe in the abstract, floating around in someone's head, but once anything is agreed upon, written down, or organized in any way there has to be some sort of ideology involved.

Sullivan is a devout Catholic.  Would he have us believe that the Catholic Church is "simply a faith" and does not want to wield its power "as a political force?"

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by: DavidinPS @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 19:14:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks to diablorobotico!

I couldn't have explained the usage better, though I picked up the usage from a William Safire "On Language" column some time ago.

I was a cradle Catholic.  They threw me out when i started transition, because apparently I was "causing a scandal in the Church."  Theologically, I had a problem with the Church's moral theology for a very long time, but this gave me the opportunity to unravel the rest.

Most of the Roman Catholic hierarchy, and some Catholics (those who blindly follow the hierarchy in all things, even the evil ones), are Christianists.  Other Catholics, the "cafeteria" variety who use their informed consciences to reject evil even when it is preached from the pulpit, are Christians.

Not all Evangelicals are Christianists.

To be a Christianist, one has to pervert the teachings of Christ in order to justify bigotry and intolerance, and to use the faith to oppress others.

When I was a Catholic, I was one of those "cafeteria" types, even though I was also a lay liturgist and the cantor at the 8:00 AM Sunday Mass at my parish, and sang with the choir for Easter and Christmas services. (I also spent three years in a Catholic seminary studying for the priesthood.)

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by: Joann Prinzivalli @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 09:07:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

As I have said many, many times...

This was the problem with the whole propH8 campaign-- a refusal to take us out of the closet.

Kudos to you. And you did exactly the right thing, helping Mr. Christian Goodness see you as people

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by: Ben in Oakland @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 10:30:40 AM CDT

So moving

Thank you so much for posting.  THAT is exactly how change happens--one heart at a time.  It took amazing courage to respond out of kindness and love, and now that man can be a catalyst for change in his own community.  

God bless you all!

Peace,

noahsdad

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by: noahsdad @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 12:28:33 PM CDT

I just don't understand

I just don't understand how someone who would never DREAM of sitting at a segregated lunch counter, crossing a picket line, or any of dozens of other violations of solidarity with the disenfranchised, would participate in a discriminatory institution by choosing to get married at this time. Yesterday a wonderful woman who devotes her life to peace and justice told me she was getting married and wanted my address to invite me to the wedding. I was mute I was so hurt and shocked. She was oblivious to what she was doing.

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by: peacearena @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 12:56:12 PM CDT

Most straight people don't realize how big an issue this is for gay people.

They don't see marriage as being the equivalent of sitting at a segregated lunch counter or crossing a picket line. Obviously, that has to change. People have to be made to recognize that laws against gay people are discriminatory, that it is wrong, and that it is shameful to support those laws.

How to get there? One way, as you suggest, is for gay people and straight allies to boycott marriage and attempt to shame everyone else into boycotting marriage until it is available equally to all.

Another approach is to handle it as the OP and his husband did, by participating in and attending weddings as an openly gay married couple, and therefore be a living example to bigots. In this incidence, that approach seems to have rescued at least one lost soul.

My partner and I recently attended a straight marriage. I introduced her to everyone as my partner, thus coming out to a number of professional colleagues who hadn't known that I was gay. The groom asked me if my partner and I were considering marriage. I laughed and said that it was illegal in our state for us to get married. I think that I made my point. Sure, I could have boycotted the whole thing, but I felt that my partner and I were an effective voice for truth that day, attending a lovely summer wedding in a small Southern town.  

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by: night owl @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 15:20:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Most straight people don't realize how big an issue this is for gay people.

They don't see marriage as being the equivalent of sitting at a segregated lunch counter or crossing a picket line. Obviously, that has to change. People have to be made to recognize that laws against gay people are discriminatory, that it is wrong, and that it is shameful to support those laws.

How to get there? One way, as you suggest, is for gay people and straight allies to boycott marriage and attempt to shame everyone else into boycotting marriage until it is available equally to all.

Another approach is to handle it as the OP and his husband did, by participating in and attending weddings as an openly gay married couple, and therefore be a living example to bigots. In this incidence, that approach seems to have rescued at least one lost soul.

My partner and I recently attended a straight marriage. I introduced her to everyone as my partner, thus coming out to a number of professional colleagues who hadn't known that I was gay. The groom asked me if my partner and I were considering marriage. I laughed and said that it was illegal in our state for us to get married. I think that I made my point. Sure, I could have boycotted the whole thing, but I felt that my partner and I were an effective voice for truth that day, attending a lovely summer wedding in a small Southern town.  

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by: night owl @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 15:20:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

For those like peace...there is a new group.

The National Marriage Boycott..

Even Daniel Choi joined last week as have others.

Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are most famous.

Here is website:

http://marriageboycott.ning.com/

 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 16:00:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Exactly

That is what I meant in my comment.

I have a lot more respect for people who choose to boycott marriage until its available to all.

While this was a nice story, this isn't the rule.

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by: PurpleLove08 @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 18:20:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Responding with

anger an animosity is NOT the way to win hearts and minds.

The OP story is a great example of getting out there and actively changing people's mind on issues. Demanding that people protest is not always going to win the day. Nor is it acceptable to demand that people forego an event that they may have wished for their whole lives.

The object of the came is to win support for your cause. In this instance, shaming won't work since the people holding the majority position already think that we should be ashamed. Being at someone else's ceremony serving as a living example of the injustice of the policy is far more effective at changing minds.

In a democracy, the object of the game is to try and bring people around to your way of thinking. Being willing to serve as teacher and example is something that you have to be willing to do if you ever want to win.  

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 10:13:30 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Wow

How beautiful!  What a wonderful, hopeful experience.  Thanks for sharing it.

Yes we can!

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by: bluegirlbb @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 13:53:16 PM CDT

What a wonderful story!

It takes a lot of courage to go into hostile territory and be ourselves, openly and without apology. Sometimes that kind of courage results in transformations, as it did in this case.

Thank you for sharing that story, and to you and your parter for being a force for love.

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by: night owl @ Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 15:10:42 PM CDT