News Tips?
-- tips@phblend.com

PHB Mobile

Your blogmistress is in need of a real vacation...

I've made it to the initial round for favorite progressive blogger in the Air America Cruise Contest. I have to stay in the Top 5 before the second voting round begins, so your vote is appreciated! First voting round:
Nov. 16th - Dec. 3rd, 2009



Join Stop Taser Torture on 12.4.09


33|175:175

About
-- The Blog
-- Pam | My home page
-- Autumn
-- Daimeon
-- Julien
-- "Radical" Russ
-- Terrance

Contact the Baristas

The Blend Blogrolls

Activism


Best of the Blend
Blog Posts

Special Events and Interviews

Blend-o-licious endorsements...



The Christian Civic League of Maine's Mike Hein calls Pam's House Blend:
"a leading source of radical homosexual propaganda, anti-Christian bigotry, and radical transgender advocacy."

He is "praying that Pam Spaulding will "turn away from her wicked and sinful promotion of homosexual behavior." (CCLM's web site, 10/15/07)


Ex-gay "Christian" activist James Hartline on Pam:
"I have been mocked over and over again by ungodly and unprincipled anti-christian lesbians."
(from "Six Years In Sodom: From The Journal Of James Hartline," 9/4/2006, written from the "homosexual stronghold" of Hillcrest in San Diego).

"Pam is a 'twisted lesbian sister' and an 'embittered lesbian' of the 'self-imposed gutteral experiences of the gay ghetto.'" -- 9/5/2008



Peter LaBarbera of Americans for Truth Against Homosexuality heartily endorses the Blend, calling Pam:

A "vicious anti-Christian lesbian activist."
(Concerned Women for America's radio show [9:15], 1/25/07)

"A nutty lesbian blogger."
(MassResistance radio show [16:25], 2/3/07)


Pam's House Blend always seems to find these sick f*cks. The area of the country she is in? The home state of her wife? I know, they are everywhere. Pam just does such a great job of bringing them out into the light.
--Impeach Bush


who monitors yours Bevis ?? Just thought I would drop you a line,so the rest of your life is not wasted.
--"Joe"

Content © 2004-2008
Pam Spaulding

House Blend logo © 2005
Melissa McEwan

Photo of Pam Spaulding
© Judy G. Rolfe
All Rights Reserved.


SITE TERMS AND CONDITIONS
Support the Blend




An Online Magazine in the Reality-Based Community.


Obama DOJ softens tone on DOMA brief -- but will defend that 'constitutional case can be made'

by: Pam Spaulding

Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 11:30:00 AM EDT


Make up you flipping mind, and, by the way, nice sentiments don't mean much as you continue to screw with our relationships. Sigh -- after that exhale, the positive overarching message in this new Obama DOJ reply brief (and it will not please the right either) the tone is much improved, but there's that still-open question is about whether it HAS to defend the discriminatory law at all. Arguments have been made on both sides.
The Obama administration filed court papers Monday claiming a federal marriage law discriminates against gays, even as government lawyers continued to defend it.

Justice Department lawyers are seeking to dismiss a suit brought by a gay California couple challenging the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act. The administration's response to the case has angered gay activists who see it as backtracking on campaign promises made by Barack Obama last year.

In court papers, the administration said it supports repeal of the law. Yet the same filing says the Justice Department will defend the statute in this case because a reasonable argument can be made that the law is constitutional.

..."DOMA reflects a cautiously limited response to society's still-evolving understanding of the institution of marriage," according to the filing by Assistant Attorney General Tony West.

What is left to evolve on this issue? The only thing evolving is marriage itself, which the fundies continually state hasn't changed in 2000 years or some such BS. Good news also mentioned in the article is that the U.S. government will not defend using the blatantly ridiculous notions that procreation or raising children needs to be tied to government interest when it comes to marriage.

The White House statement:

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of Media Affairs
______________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release                                                                       August 17, 2009

Statement by the President on the Smelt v. United States Brief

Today, the Department of Justice has filed a response to a legal challenge to the Defense of Marriage Act, as it traditionally does when acts of Congress are challenged.  This brief makes clear, however, that my Administration believes that the Act is discriminatory and should be repealed by Congress.  I have long held that DOMA prevents LGBT couples from being granted equal rights and benefits.  While we work with Congress to repeal DOMA, my Administration will continue to examine and implement measures that will help extend rights and benefits to LGBT couples under existing law.

The brief and statements from it are below the fold.

Pam Spaulding :: Obama DOJ softens tone on DOMA brief -- but will defend that 'constitutional case can be made'
From the brief itself:
"With respect to the merits, this Administration does not support DOMA as a matter of policy, believes that it is discriminatory, and supports its repeal. Consistent with the rule of law, however, the Department of Justice has long followed the practice of defending federal statutes as long as reasonable arguments can be made in support of their constitutionality, even if the Department disagrees with a particular statute as a policy matter, as it does here. And in this case, plaintiffs' constitutional claims are unavailing. In their opposition brief, plaintiffs offer only a token response to the United States' arguments on the merits. Indeed, they say nothing at all in response to the arguments concerning their "full faith and credit," right to travel, right to privacy, First Amendment, or Ninth Amendment claims. On that basis alone, those claims should be dismissed."

"Courts have held that challenges to DOMA are subject to rational basis review. Under that deferential standard of review, this Court should find that Congress could reasonably have concluded that there is a legitimate government interest in maintaining the status quo regarding the distribution of federal benefits in the face of serious and fluid policy differences in and among the states. That there is now a debate taking place in this country about same-sex marriage does not make Congress's belief in this regard any less rational. Basic federalism principles allowed Congress in 1996, and allow Congress now, to take this uniform approach based on a traditional  definition of marriage that all 50 states recognize while the states grapple with the emerging debate over same-sex marriage. Under rational basis review, Congress can reasonably take the view that it wishes to wait to see how these issues are resolved at the state level before extending federal benefits to marriages that were not recognized in any state when Congress tied eligibility for those benefits to marital status.

"Unlike the intervenors here, the government does not contend that there are legitimate government interests in "creating a legal structure that promotes the raising of children by both of their biological parents" or that the government's interest in "responsible procreation" justifies Congress's decision to define marriage as a union between one man and one woman (Doc. 42 at 8-9). Since DOMA was enacted, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association, the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, the American Medical Association, and the Child Welfare League of America have issued policies opposing restrictions on lesbian and gay parenting because they concluded, based on numerous studies, that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are as likely to be well-adjusted as children raised by heterosexual parents. Furthermore, in Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558, 605 (2003), Justice Scalia acknowledged in his dissent that encouraging procreation would not be a rational basis for limiting marriage to opposite-sex couples under the reasoning of the Lawrence majority opinion - which, of course, is the prevailing law - because "the sterile and the elderly are allowed to marry." For these reasons  the United States does not believe that DOMA is rationally related to any legitimate government  interests in procreation and child-rearing and is therefore not relying upon any such interests to defend DOMA's constitutionality."

Via Americablog:

Tags: , , , (All Tags)
Bookmark and Share
Print Friendly View Send As Email
MSNBC just had Kerry Eleveld on to discuss this.

She states WHouse now thinking that DOMA intereferes with States Rights!

(Garbage!) She goes on to answer question re CA 2010 vs 3012 and is in the Courage Campaign camp ...(as am I) for 2010. 



It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.


A few roses ... planted in 40 acres of bullshit!!!

We're being played...and this time TWO DIFFERENT WAYS. First, it's no more true now that they have to defend every existing law than it was the last time they claimed it to cover their Rick Warrenites-appeasing asses!!!

SECOND: Their "must defend the law" crap is as much about DADT as it is DOMA...about reinforcing their DISHONEST runaround about not issuing an Executive Order to freeze discharges by pretending they have no choice when, in fact, THEY KNOW another law passed by Congress TRUMPS DADT: 10 United States Code § 12305-"Authority of the President to Suspend Certain Laws Relating to Promotion, Retirement,and Separation."

And for any of those who might think the "bad" part of it [when, actually, it's all bad in the end] might have been written by holdover career attorney hired by George Bush pere and, yes, devout Mormon, W. Scott Simpson, as the last one apparently was, note, AGAIN, the name of his boss, Tony West, Assistant Attorney General, director of the DOJ Civil Division...and close friend of Obama after raising millions for him during the campaign....is at the top of this brief just as it was at the top of the previous gay legal lynching brief.

West was an attorney in San Francisco during the Prop H*TE battle and records show him not giving a dime to defeat it.

STOP GIVING MONEY TO THE DNC!


[ Parent ]
weaseling
The Gov't thinks it's being magnanimous by conceding a point or two on procreation and child-rearing. In fact, it concedes nothing substantial, because under the rational-basis test, any rational basis will do. In fact, if the Gov't arguments had kept in the bits about bestiality and pedophilia, it might have led most jurists to conclude that there is no rational basis.

but on the Gil v OPM issue....
....of whether the Federal Gov't can refuse to recognize MA or CA or CT or IA marriages cahnging this brief has a very good impact for us -- the Smelt suit is poor anyway, they don't have standing to bring it because they not yet demonstrate harm as they haven't applied and been rejected for Federal benefits, the plaintiffs in Gil have and have have the backing of their state.

[ Parent ]
exactly.
That was my worry with Smelt, the ripeness issue, which the Gov't only hinted at.

A likely harm and cause for Full Faith & Credit might be a scenario where a married couple gets in an accident in, say, Oklahoma or Arkansas, they're denied access by paramedics or a public hospital (i.e., state action), maybe their kids are taken away because the state doesn't recognize SSMs or same-sex adoption. Nightmare scenario, but a definite injury, definite ripeness.


[ Parent ]
We need to read this very carefully and fullfill their arguments.
As a newly married spouse, I intend to push in every direction.
So far:
1. SSI has accepted our marriage license as proof of our right to change our names on our SSI accounts. We both have new Social Security Cards.
2. The Indiana BMV has accepted our Social Security Cards and our Marriage License as proof for our name changes on our Drivers Licenses. We both have new Drivers licenses.
3. We have applied for me to be put on my spouses insurance. Now hers's where it's oging to get tricky. My spouse is a Federal Employee with BCBS coverage. We are waiting for the paperwork to go through. If BCBS of Indiana or the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program refuse us then we have a case of discrimination based on sexual orientation which my spouses branch of the Federal Government forbids!
Not to mention the fact that BCBS Indiana can only state that Indiana is the one discriminating because other regional BCBS cover same sex couples.
4. Our bank, Credit cards ect. have changed the names on all of our accounts. No questions asked.

BTW we got married in Iowa.  


and try the other arguments
Look at Part IV of the Gov't response. Smelt and Hammer weren't alleging that another state had denied marital recognition (the Full Faith & Credit argument), simply that California had denied them equal protection under the law. Nor, apparently, has any Federal gov't agency denied them anything substantive as yet.

A couple going to another state may want to raise these arguments. Smelt and Hammer, the Gov't alleges, have no standing because their harms are, apparently, abstract. Standing and ripeness are what gets a plaintiff in the courthouse door, and even if they lose this case, the FF&C (states' rights) question may still be open.

You might want to get an attorney in that state once you reach that point, and go to the Federal District Court there with it.


[ Parent ]
"a cautiously limited response"
DOMA cuts us off from over 1100 federal legal protections and obligations, and they call that "limited"?  i'm still waiting to see obama replace his marriage with a crappy domestic partnership so that he proves by example how "limited" he thinks the resulting losses would be to he and his sex partner.

Lurleen on Twitter

yes, and they conceded that with the Scalia quote
If the Lawrence case granted us equal protection under the law, it meant everything that comes with full citizenship, which meant something more than the right to skulk about in gay bars. Scalia may have been indulging in hyperbole in the Lawrence dissent, but he was on to something. And it's a nice irony, his wording lending itself ot our case.

[ Parent ]
Smacks of "I got mine, screw you"
How G*D DAMN convenient the laws had evolved just barely for Obama's parents to legally wed. But anyone else, just cool your heels over there.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


Women are very used to this phenomena
we campaigned with black men for the vote, they got it and never "came back for us later"

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

[ Parent ]
yeah same sh*t for non inclusive ENDA
That wait, and we'll come back for ya...needs fine print,it may be 40 yrs from now, but "Hang in There BABY"

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


[ Parent ]
THE FINAL STRAW
Then there is the TV version of the "Gay Community".

It exists in this special bubble that excludes people with mental health issues, trauma issues due to gay hate, the poor, anyone "too" dark-skinned or "ethnic", the angry (i.e. - human), ALL transexual persons, or anyone else who doesn't bend over with the same gusto the "TV Gay Community" does when getting f*cked over by government.

Perhaps the Federal Government REALLY DOES want the Gay Community (the TV version AND the real version) to be PUSHED OVER THE EDGE, because how else can you explain the psychological MIND FUCK we are getting each year?

NO rights for you!
Here are your rights.
OOPS - NO rights for you, again!
Here are some rights.

I do know one thing - if Referendum 71 gets on the ballot, I'm not sure Seattle Gays will be as polite, appeasing,  and submissive as many CA gays were during PROP 8.

Decades more of abuse? - OR - Stonewall.  Nationwide.  NOW!


[ Parent ]
another saying comes to mind
" I'd love to help you, but I just washed my hair."

Doing what you can on this lawsuit, (which is OPTIONAL, and even this administration has picked and chosen which statutes they defend), isn't what you SHOULD.

The more you offend LGBTs as allies, the less we'll help push your agenda....we have temperaments that make Rahm look like a Sunday school teacher, and we aren't shy about expressing ourselves.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


In summary: "Yes we can, but no we won't"
More meaningless words that sound sweet while not even saying "Maybe I'll do something eventually." Money in this country is too firmly in the hands of social conservatives, and as long as they hold the money, all power in this country will kow-tow to them and damn the people.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même merde.

ya forgot "seperate but unequal" has starre decisus...cred


What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


That they changed it at all
suggests to me, that on some level they're afraid of what we can do to them. This means we can push them even further.

Fetch my pearls, I need to clutch them!

OR...
How about the the fact that the WH did not read it the first time. After the outcry they required that it get higher approval the second time through.

Some people seriously believe that the WH sat and read through every line of the original brief, which was just nonsense. In fact there was every indication that the original brief did not get much attention at all until people complained.


[ Parent ]
Eric Holder
In the first 24-72 hrs. after the first brief, I would have been satified if Eric Holder had addressed it, if only to avoid the politicizing of the DOJ that had occured under Bush. I don't believe that Obama read that  for a minute, although Rahm may well have read the brief.

Now had DOJ released this the first time, there would not have been the outcry. So the "complaining" worked, although this also has a CYA feel to it.


[ Parent ]
The problem is...
People ARE trying to politicize the DOJ. They are actively asking the nation's law enforcement branch to simply ignore laws that they do not like. To me that is unacceptable.

People need to get up off of their behind and push to get laws changed instead of complaining that the laws are being followed.


[ Parent ]
Enforcing a law is one thing.
Defending its constitutionality is another. The executive branch is not required to defend laws they think are unconstitutional.

Fetch my pearls, I need to clutch them!

[ Parent ]
And since Obama admits DOMA is discriminatory,
by his own admission they're defending discrimination too.  This man has the moral spine of an amoeba.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu


[ Parent ]
One thing kev has argued strongly for, is AA need a sense of knowing who you come from, before trust
I get the same feeling towards Barack and Michelle. Show me your close LGBT friends, of long lasting friendships, then I'll know what trust level you garner from me.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


Why is that even relevant...
I'm gay and have no LGBT friends. In fact, I've heard from quite a few people who are gay but don't have gay friends.

One does not have to have friends to know the difference between right and wrong. I don't need a muslim friend to know that discrimination against muslims is wrong and unaccptable. I don't need to have disabled friends to support the ADA and strongly oppose discrimination against them.


[ Parent ]
But it does put a human face on things.
I stayed away from most of my family for years for a lot reasons (homophobia being a small part of it). But once I decided to be around them again and the subject came up, they actually were very aware of the harm that they were doing.

When the harm is concrete rather than abstract, people tend to want to do something about it, even if it means being more supportive (such is the case with my brother).


[ Parent ]
"I'm gay and have no LGBT friends."
it explains SO much,  and I pity you.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


[ Parent ]
This made me have a keener insight to myself and what kev has gotten thru to me
My chosing to be a gay seperatist, (maybe for a decade)can be analogous to AA who have had so many deep hurtful actions from whites whether gay or straight, aren't  magicly going to change on our time schedule. I was polite to straights I interacted with, but never trusted them to be as close as a friend, just an aquaintance. I had really deep hateful actions from heterosexuals, and only in the last few years could I consider I could have friends who are straight allies. It couldn't be forced on me, that would have built another layer of wall around myself. It's more like water slowly eroding the rock like shell I placed around myself. Eventually someone like Louise got through, that she respects LGBT community as much as her own, that she would stand with us, even when it's hard.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


[ Parent ]
I went through a similar reaction to straights
I thought that when I went into a 12-Step program it would be different but instead I found out during the diner conversation after the meetings that I had surrounded myself with homophobes (in a couple of cases, very, very extreme).

I was bitter about it for a long time, especially as it threatened my sobriety once I was honest about the effect it was having on me.


[ Parent ]
I had an experience with my first Alanon meeting, with straights
The lesbian who took me into her house after I was beaten and raped, was in Alanon, and had been in AA too.
She took me to a meeting she went to, which was straight.
In the intro small group I went to, I said my partner, then maybe 5 minutes later I said "HE". The room went SILENT for 5 minutes, and was extremely uncomfortable.
I never went to another straight meeting, Minneapolis had the luxuary of LGBT meetings, even their own building.
For those who don't know Alanon, it deals with addictive behavior, the biggest being wanting to "fix" alcoholics.
I was raised with 2 alcoholic parents, and both my siblings became alcoholic,  I knew how to live in that chaos, and knew no other way.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


[ Parent ]
Just curious, Geek.
Why don't you have any LGBT friends? If you feel like discussing it.

You are more than free to say "nunya," of course.


[ Parent ]
nothing to say really...
We've jumped over that bridge before. Lets just say one can only be told that one does not belong for so long before one says gotcha, and moves on. Thus all of my friends have been straight. Though to be honest, some of my female frinds have come close :)

[ Parent ]
Well, I know you've said that as far as white LGBT's
but my question is inclusive of all ethnicities and genders, actually.


[ Parent ]
Circumstance...
has meant that most of the people that I've regularly interacted with in life (due to being educated away from home) have been white. The LGBT community that existed in central Florida where I started college was almost exclusively white. The same was true of much of the community in WI (and I was actively involved in trying to change that). The London community was actually pretty diverse, but again, all of my friends ended up being straight (well with the exception of one woman from northern Europe). Apparenlty I should have gone to Germany instead of the UK...I hear things are...different there.

Needless to say the whole thing left me burned out by the time I got back here. But that's a story for another time. Lets just say that straight folks of many ethnicities tend to be cool with me. L and B women are usually pretty awesome. But the G-men ugh...shields up, red alert!


[ Parent ]
Thanks!
Seriously, that explains a lot, actually.

As I've stated, I have a deep-seated animosity toward a lot of "blacker than thou" and churchified AAs; a lot of it based in my childhood actually. I've never had serious difficulty getting along with most white people (gay or straight) even if I do have to conduct the occasional 10 minute racial sensitivity crash course. Actually, when I was targeted as one of those "uppity black kids" that acted as if they were white, it seemed as if more white teachers were sympathetic than black teachers. That's just as an example, it is, of course, far more complicated (as anyone's psyche can be)  


[ Parent ]
"One does not have to have friends to know the difference between right and wrong"
No, you don't.  But it sure seems like it would help you.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu


[ Parent ]
Show me who your friends are...
The reason that having friends of XYZ group is relevant is because it speaks to your willingness as an individual to engage those different from you on a personal level. How willing are you to be confronted up close and in your face with those visceral feelings that emerge when someone your pastor says is icky speaks with you every day?

Of relevance, at Pandagon last week someone said that the difference between Southern and Northern racism is that southern racists don't mind the black people next door, they're not like those other uppity folks, but a black man in the White House is a black man above his station. Northern racism is just the opposite: northern racists love to pretend they're not bigoted, so they support a black man for President, but the minute a black family moves in next door, it's "there goes the neighborhood." Both are racist attitudes, both personal in different ways.

You can SAY discrimination is wrong until you're blue in the face. But unless you're willing to put a face to the name, thereby examining your own privilege and getting that personalized gut-check, it's all still theory and pretty words. Sort of like Obama saying that he WANTS to help LGBT people, it's nice in theory, but his actions say the opposite.

You're gay and have no gay friends? Good grief, SciFi, no wonder you're so angry and contrary all the time. If I had no personal support network of people who understand my own hell I'd feel isolated and grouchy, too.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi


[ Parent ]
The question as asked...
is misleading. Not having close frieds does not necessarily translate into no interaction. Obama is a politician from one of the most liberal cities in the country. He was also a professor at the University of Chicago, which is in one of the most diverse areas of the city. It goes without question that Obama had regular interaction with LGBT people. Hell, he was a member of one of the black churches that is known for its inclusiveness to LGBT folks (and he's friends with Oprah).

So, it goes without question that he knows and has experience around LGBT folks. The question was about him having close personal friendships. Did he, who knows? But he did not need them inorder to understand the issues and have a good grasp of where he stood on them.

There is no doubt that having close friends from a wide array of groups definately helps. On that point i'm in complete agreement with everything you said. (indeed I've said as much in discussions about race relations) I'm just saying that its not absolutely necessary.


[ Parent ]
But is Obama aware of the costs of LGBT discrimination in the concrete?
See, I think Professor Obama gets it but only in an abstract fashion.

See, that's what upset me about the A-list gay cocktail party, these are gay people who, due to their class, are shielded from much of the inequities and discrimination that us regular LGBT folks face. Let Obama hear the testimony of the many black and white LGBTs who were shunned by their churches and families or hear from some of those couples in the new Gill brief...


[ Parent ]
See...
I think that he gets it just fine. I'm reminded of the hand written letter that he sent the female soldier. He did not have to do that. But he did anyway.

Besides, if there is a man that gets what its like to be on the outside in a world that is not always welcoming...I bet is Barak Obama.

People seem to ignore the role that politics plays in these situations. He knows the game, and I guarantee you that in Chicago, learned that no matter how committed you are to something, you've got to be ready to compromise...if only so that you have the chance to play the game again later.


[ Parent ]
FAIL! The woman Lt. he hand wrote to...

...was STILL shit canned out by the military that reports to him! His crocodile tears never washed away THAT sin!

What's the Kool Aid flavor of the day in the Cult Cafeteria?



[ Parent ]
I'm a Northerner in Louisiana
The level of racism here isn't over stated, and no they aren't FINE with the Black family moving in next door.
My lover get's calls almost daily from his sister grousing about an inter racial couple who bought the home next to them. It started before this couple moved in, so it wasn't based at all on what this couple actually did or didn't do, just racist assumptions that they'd be trashy and drop property values.
Up north, I lived happily in changing neighborhoods, which were going through gentrification, of previous poor neighborhoods. MUCH healthier than a lily white small town which said NOTHING, as grafitti of FAGGOT and AIDS sh*t was sprayed all over it.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


[ Parent ]
I think we can just agree that the human gene pool needs cleansing
My northern-origin parents were just fine with Obama getting in the White House...and they were more than happy to move to a white suburb of Utah when their neighborhood started getting "too ethnic."

Is this attitude genetic? Can biochemists come up with a virus that will sweep through the population and remove it? Mass gene therapy? It could be fun, really!

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi


[ Parent ]
And, yes, LGBTs can be too trusting and loyal, sometimes


[ Parent ]
Oh fer cryin outloud!!!
Its STILL THE DAMN LAW!

Its the job of the executive branch to enforce the. Yet some people fell like its perfectly acceptable for them to simply ignore laws they don't like. Yet people get all upset when the government ignores laws that they do like.

As long as a law remains on the books, the government should continue to enforce the rules. If you don't like the law, demand that Congress change it.


They may have to enforce it
but they don't have to defend its constitutionality. That's the issue here.

Fetch my pearls, I need to clutch them!

[ Parent ]
WOW.....just WOW!
The passion you show to be treated as LESS than equal, the passion you show as if we deserve to be treated LESS than equal.

it's breath taking

heinous, putrid, foul, ignorant...but never the less breath taking.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


[ Parent ]
Its called
having a healthy respect for the law and demanding that the government adhere to it.

Damn, you'd think after the last 8 years of a government that treated the law like they were just helpful suggestions, people would understad WHY its important to demand that our elected official and enforcement arms abide by the law as stated.

Feel free to work and try to have the law changed, but stop acting as if its appropriate for the government to simply ignore laws that they don't like. Otherwise you have no grounds to complain about any of the actions of the Bush Administration. That was their whole attitude to the rule of law.


[ Parent ]
This will be the third time it's been explained to you.
They are enforcing the law as required. They are not required to defend in court a law that they supposedly think is unconstitutional. You are confusing two separate issues.

Fetch my pearls, I need to clutch them!

[ Parent ]
Are you at all familiar with the concept of an "unjust law"?
By Obama's own admission, DOMA is discriminatory.  During the campaign he even referred to it as heinous.  Arguing that he's just following a law which he knows to be grossly unjust isn't all that far from the Nuremberg defense.  

Discrimination against Jews, gypsies, gays and many other groups was the law under the Third Reich.  Yet after the war, when Nazi judges, prison  guards and other officials tried to defend themselves by arguing they were merely doing what the law required, they went to prison, and rightly so.  We--our own justice system--ruled that defense meritless.  Yet you think it's a good excuse for Obama, right?

Out of curiosity, do you think Jim Crow laws should have been enforced and defended, too?  They were "the law" too, after all.

It would do you a world of good to push open your closet door, meet a few LGBT people and acquaint yourself with the kinds of injustice we face on a day-to-day basis--and which your messiah Obama is doing everything he can to continue.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu


[ Parent ]
Well, there is Plessy v. Ferguson
and Paragraph 175 simply to name 2 instances. It's not unheard of of a centralized national government to do this.

But still, I'm am a little taken aback in the turn and the revelations of this thread...


[ Parent ]
Unfortunately...
YES I think that those laws should have been enforced. Which they were right up until they were struck down or repealed.

The question you should ask yourself is who should decide if a law is unjust. Is the right of a woman to an abortion unjust? Is prohibition of descrimination unjust? Who gets to make that determination. Is it fair that muslim immigrants get treated the same as christians under US law, when mooslems are terrists?

That's the issue with me. The moment you give the executive the opportunity to make that distinction on his/her own is the moment that you open the flood gate on a whole host of issues. Was Bush right to ignore laws that he thought necessary to keep the country safe? What happens when we get another conservative president? Will you support them as they selectively choose which laws are important. Let us never forget that even once the SCOTUS decided in Brown v Board of education that segregation was illegal, the executive of one of the states decided that he was going to ignore the edict.


[ Parent ]
Elections have consequences
First off, I think this is a big improvement and I think we need to say so, while still agreeing to disagree about whether they should challenge the constitutionality of the law.

That said, as long as an administration continues to enforce the existing law, they have every right to argue in court that it is unconstitutional. If in the future there are 5 votes on the Supreme Court to overturn Rowe v. Wade, I would fully expect a Republican Justice Dept. to argue for reversing Rowe, even if it meant changing their position in midstream. That's politics. That's one reason why we fought so hard to win this election and why I will still be voting for Obama in 2012. Whether I will do anything beyond that depends on what he does between now and then. However, anyone who argues to stay at home or vote for someone else (to the right or to the left) in the general election will not be acting in the interests of LGBT people or of women. Elections have (or should have) consequences.

In a perfect world, maybe Supreme Court justices (including at the state level) would be picked by independent commissions made up of judges and lawyers where ideology wouldn't play a part. But that's not the system we currently have.

Republicans use all the tools at their disposal to fight for their base's interest. Democrats don't.


[ Parent ]
You're asking a bogus question
The question you should ask yourself is who should decide if a law is unjust.

In this instance, it's not a question of who should decide whether a law is unjust, it's a matter of who has decided that.  Answer: Obama.  This man and his own administration are ignoring the dictates of decency and conscience to perpetuate something they know to be wrong.  That is political villainy--and political opportunism--at it's ripest.

Obama has said one thing and done the exact reverse so many times I'm surprised he doesn't make his public statements with a ventriloquist's dummy.  The American people are having to spend so much time trying to figure out when (if ever) he means what he says, it's starting to look like a deliberate campaign to drive us all nuts.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu


[ Parent ]
breaking point
It's true that a DOJ might have to support a challenged law when policy might wish otherwise. Trouble is, when the law (or policy) is so unjust that it is normally indefensible, if may force DOJ to distort in ways that would be unjust or even legally unethical. We learned only in later decades that the DOJ misled the Supreme Court in the Hirabayashi and Korematsu pleadings, which only came up 30 years later in a coram nobis challenge.

The DOJ assertion, in Smelt, that Congress was acting rationally in enacting DOMA is stretching things a bit. Of course, if the standard in Smelt is only rational basis, then you only have to show a rational basis. "Well, your honors, Sen. Tower was sober at least some of the time in that session."


[ Parent ]
thanks for that image Michael
It gave me a hearty laugh, and got tucked in my files for a rainy day.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small


[ Parent ]
This is still "the damn law"
Section 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,In case of war, or actual threatened invasion, the President shall make a proclamation. That whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States, by any foreign nation or government, and the President of the United States shall make public proclamation of the event,Act of July 6, 1812, ch. 130. all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being males of the age of fourteen years and upwards, who shall be within the United States, and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured and removed, as alien enemies

Enacted by the Adams Administration as part of the Alien and Sedition Acts, it provides for the deportation of only MALE enemy aliens.

Do ye suppose that this particular act is Constitutional? Have you seen anyone trying to use this act for deportation proceedings?

Failure to appear for Court in the County of Philadelphia carries with it a fine computed in Pounds Sterling. Do you suppose that anyone in the Prothonatories Office in Philadelphia is demanding that people go to the bank for the approp[riate currency to pay the fine?

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


[ Parent ]
Geek doesn't know or care
one whit about law, about legal precedent, about judicial procedures, or about anything else related to this issue.  He's demonstrated that time and again.  All he knows is that he has to defend Obama militantly, no matter how mindless or incoherent the arguments he uses to do it--the way theologians defend the doctrine of the Trinity.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu


[ Parent ]
This is likely just another diversion to keep our minds off being constantly run over by the O-bus.
It's not a substantial change in policy by any stretch of the imagination. It seems more symbolic and on a par with his gracious invitation to enjoy the fun and games at the White House easter egg roll. Or passing out a buch of medals.

The only thing that'll really count is the repeal of Clintons DADT and DOMA and that seems unlikely in the extreme. Obama was able to steal a lot of the christer bigot vote away from the Republicans last fall and neither he nor the Democrats as a whole want to lose it by being identified with LGBT equality.

Not that there was ever much danger of that happening.

This is likely just another diversion to keep our minds off being constantly run over by the O-bus.

Obama and the Democrats won't try to repeal Clintons DOMA and DADT until the sky is full of

img]

The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  


trying again
img][/img

The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  

It was supposed to be a bunch of flyng pigs...
http://estatenumberfour.files....  

The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  

Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


Report TOS Violations



Join the Blend Chat Room



Premium Sponsors



BlogAds






Search the Blend
Current site


PHB 2.0 Web
Search Blend 1.0 Archives
Ad Networks


BlogSheroes BlogAds


Miscellany

RSS Feeds

Subscribe with Bloglines

Visit NCBlogs


frontpage hit counter

Stats

Powered by: SoapBlox