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Trans-Ponder Interviews Kate Lynn Blatt About Manpower Request For Photo Of Genitals

by: Autumn Sandeen

Thu Aug 20, 2009 at 18:30:00 PM EDT



Trans-Ponder

From Trans-Ponder's  Episode 134 - Show me yours and I'll not show you mine! comes an interview of Kate Lynn Blatt, the person who was asked to have a photo taken of her genitalia to work for Manpower, Inc.

A partial transcript (of the somewhat slow loading audio -- emphasis added):

Kate Lynn Blatt: [Irene Kudziela, branch manager of Manpower's Pottsville, Pennsylvania office] goes I talked to the lady at SAPA the HR person there. She goes they really want to hire you back. She goes all you needed to do was take your physical and you will get your start date. You know I would hired into the company. They want benefits, you know 150% pay raise. I would have made more than double what I was making. She says so all they asking is when you go and get your physical taken the doctor takes a picture of your genitals and we can put this all behind us and you can start work there as early as Monday next week.

Kate Lynn BlattWhat kind of doctor is going to do this? My jaw just dropped to the floor and I said do you know what you just asked me to do? I mean seriously. Let me see a picture of the other woman's genitals.

Then she says to me she goes well it's a liability issue she goes and the only people that are going to see this picture, she's been assured, I have her assurances, that the only other people that will see this picture is every female employee on the shift that I work with. That's all, that's it, that's the only people who will see it.

Jayna L-Pavlin: Do they have to show you their's?

Kate Lynn Blatt: No, no. Because they are not trans, why would they have to?

Mila Pavlin: Right. So they are going to put on display in the women's locker room a photo of your genitals for every woman employee to see.

Kate Lynn Blatt: No no. They would have a special meeting see and explain to them that oh you know I'm trans and this is proof that I have transitioned.

Jayna L-Pavlin: It's the equivalent of posting your picture up in the women's locker room.

Kate Lynn Blatt: Sure!

I've seen where some actually question the veracity of Ms. Blatt's story, saying it's unbelievable. I'd disagree. While it's true that no one should have to show a picture of one's genitalia to one's employers to be eligible for a job, I would argue -- as Ms. Blatt seems to also be arguing -- that only women suspected of being trans (or intersexed) would be asked to show pictures of their genitalia as a condition of employment.

To quote the blog Daughter of the Ring of Fire in the post Respecting Identity:

[I]t is common to see or hear demands for detailed reasons behind the actions of marginalized groups. How often do cis people insist that trans people fully explain what it means to have a gendered identity (as if cis folk like me don't have one) as a prerequisite to being treated with respect? (Though of course it's rarely spelled out like that.)

Ultimately, this dichotomy has its roots in the nature of normativity. If you do not fit the norm, you are expected to strive to become like the norm unless you can plead your case for why your deviations should be considered acceptable. It may seem as if it should then be acceptable for someone to ask about what is considered the norm. The reason it is not is that when the norm is described, it becomes subject to discourse and inquiry. It loses its power to function invisibly, and the people who fit inside its boundaries face the risk of losing their privilege.

In fact, all women who have a masculine edge to their look have the potential for the same issues coming up. Caster Semenya is a South African runner who has had to submit to gender verification tests after posting some excellent 800-meter times this summer. It appears she looks too masculine and appears too athletic for a female. The New York Times fills in on what the two non-medal winning athletes in a recent race stated:

These kind of people should not run with us," Elisa Cusma of Italy, who finished sixth, said in a postrace interview with Italian journalists. "For me, she's not a woman. She's a man."

Mariya Savinova, a Russian who finished fifth, told Russian journalists that she did not believe Semenya would be able to pass a test. "Just look at her," Savinova said.

Had to pull down your pants or lift up your skirt to prove to other women you're a woman lately? Have you received dirty looks in the public locker room or bathroom lately for looking too masculine? Ever had to have a genetic test to determine whether you're male, female, or intersexed?

By the way, I'm personally awaiting the results for a genetic test I had done at the VA. The test is mostly to determine if I have Klinefelter's Syndrome (XXY instead of the "standard" XY or XX) -- I have many of the symptoms of the syndrome. One of my medical providers suggested I have testing for it because should I have the syndrome, there are secondary health concerns. No matter how the test comes back though, it won't change how I see my gender identity, but it may change how others perceive me. Basically, many will consider me as going from being transsexual to being intersexed if I should have Klinefelter's Syndrome, and many would not consider me to be transgender at all.

So what is my sex? What is my gender? What is (or are) my identity (or identities)? I find I'm far from the only trans, and/or intersexed person who has to ask these questions of themselves. And too, I have "the pleasure" of watching cissexual/cisgender others ask these questions about about the sex and gender of my trans and intersex peers and me, as if what what my trans and intersex peers, as well as myself, find true about ourselves doesn't matter at all. We are instead defined by our genetics, or the shape of our genitalia.

So, I leave you with a thought of Eric Vilain, the chief of medical genetics at UCLA's David Geffen School of Medicine, regarding sex and gender:  

Sex should be easily definable, but it's not. Our gender identity our profound sense of being male or female is independent from our anatomy.

Special thanks to Sheila Sha'lo and her pet dragon for creating the basis for the transcript.

~~~~~
Further Reading:
* Fight For The Family blog: Kmart Confusion (Opposition piece)
* The Guardian: Think before you say 'she's a man; 'We must question our readiness to rely on surface clues to interrogate a young athlete like Caster Semenya on her sex
* Feministing: Sex-Determination Testing in Track and Field

~~~~~
Related:
* Photos of genitals required for job
* White Male Privilege & Women's Fear Of Crime Intersecting With Gender Expression & Public Restrooms

Autumn Sandeen :: Trans-Ponder Interviews Kate Lynn Blatt About Manpower Request For Photo Of Genitals
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Everyone will loathe my saying this
but it is the legal issue in Pennsylvania

If she is changing in front of other women and she is non-op or pre-op, there are no gender identity or gender expression protections in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania with the exception of a few counties and municipalities.

That state's standard for gender change, officially, on their drivers licence and birth certificate require a letter from the surgeon that performed reassignment surgery.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


If you listen to all of the audio...

...she does have that letter. And literally, the only thing she changed was her boots in front of one other woman.

And you're right, per the audio, Pennsylvania specifically excludes trans people from their anti-discrimination laws.

SAFA is apparently now worried about losing reputation. The difficulty for the company is that how this plays as descrimination, and how it possibly plays as sexual harassment.  

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
Does she have a letter from "A" doctor or her SRS surgeon
my audio is not working so I don't know. There is a difference....some legal precedents of incidents of people who were surgically castrated but did not have reassignment surgery, where the urologists wrote a vague letter indicating sexual surgery without being specific.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

[ Parent ]
I'm a "good" trans woman...

...and never ask. :D Us trans folk know it's poor form to ask a trans person what their surgical status is.

From the audio; however, she sounds post genital reconstruction surgery (GRS), but I honestly couldn't swear she's post-GRS on a stack of Bibles because I honestly don't know.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
Autumn, the problem is that it will get asked in Court
or in a hearing
or in a deposition.

I abhor what was asked of her.
I do like to win in court, and if there is any aspect of this that could be presented later in such a fashion that the lady in question is made to look as if she was at all deceptive, then the matter is dead in the water.

If, on the other hand, she has been unfailingly accurate, then this is precisely the case, with its hyperbolic response from the employer, that is used to leverage new law and new rights.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


[ Parent ]
Based on the sagacity of this comment
I withdraw my objection below. Yours is based on legal strategies, and my concerns are based on ethical, personal and social imperatives. Both are valid, but only one will really bring change.

Willow: It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.
Buffy: Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was.
Angel: Well, actually... That's a good point.


[ Parent ]
This is a really big deal
for those who are in transition. This case can set a dangerous president if she was dishonest in representing her physical sex.

The transgender community historically rallies around situations like this when in fact they should be using cases like this as an example to be completely honest about their physical sex. All it takes is for a few deceivers to ruin the standing in the community at large classical transsexuals have.  


[ Parent ]
Exactly
Now put that fact side by side with the new Homeland Security requirements for air travel, requiring passengers to provide their full name and gender at security. So for a transperson in Pennsylvania, they are guaranteed to have contradictory identification for a minimum of one year (the minimum duration of the real life test as per HBIGDA Standards of Care).

People in transition may be able to get the name consistent among documents, but because PA requires surgery for changing gender on state identity documents, this is a de facto travel restriction on all pre-op and non-op transsexuals. I find it just staggering that the officially sanctioned treatment protocol now has built into it a loss of travel rights. Oh, but I suppose Homeland Security will just tell us to 'out' ourselves every time we pass through security. You know, for our safety and security. cough cough

This is further complicated by the fact that the State department policy for passports is that you can get the gender marker changed one year in advance of surgery. The caveat is that if you don't (or can't) get that surgery, then you effectively cannot travel out of the country. And cis people wonder why transpeople feel compelled to get surgery, even if it might not be the best option for them? This society is making it very hard to be a transperson in this society.

As for the demand for pictures, what can one say? It is so beyond the pale that one struggles to find adequate superlatives. If nothing else, I think it demonstrates quite effectively the extent to which corporations dominate our lives, our experiences, and our basic sense of survival. I guess her crime was suspicion of being a pre-op transsexual, a favorite target of HR professionals everywhere. That is to say - they known damn well that pre-op transpeople have virtually no legal employment rights, and so they can pretty much do whatever they feel like. Corporations may be immortal, but clearly they do not have a soul. Certainly the people working for them don't.

And re: the Semenya issue, I heard the story on NPR. It was idiotic, evasive, and generally did nothing to address the audacity of those who require "proof" of gender. I mean really, what is their problem? Simple envy? Cisgender privilege? I'd say the latter. When Cusma refers to Semenya as "These kind of people," it is a wholesale rejection of the authenticity of trans people. And the follow-on statement, that "For her, she's not a woman. She's a man." is just so clearly dehumanizing and delegitimizing that I am again at a loss for words.

At the end of the day, aren't all these stories tied together by the unmentioned commonality, namely the widespread and legally codified - but false - belief that there are only two genders, and that you are either one or the other? So anyone at the margins between male and female must bear the burden of a demonstrably wrong belief system?


[ Parent ]
Are you from Pennsylvania?
You say:
PA requires surgery for changing gender on state identity documents
My understanding was that this may not always be the case.

For the pre-operative transsexual, however, PennDOT's policy regarding sex designation can best be described as "capricious." At one time, a letter from one's therapist or doctor attesting to the fact that she is living as a member of the opposite sex was sufficient to have the sex designation changed. Since the plethora of restrictions imposed following the attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001, it has been nearly impossible for someone to change the sex designation on their license without following the procedure listed above.  On occassion, an individual is able to get the designation changed when renewing their license without presenting a sugeon's affidavit.  This serendipitous occurrance is undoubtedly due to a sympatheic clerk willing to bend the rule. http://www.holtesq.com/TG_FAQS...


[ Parent ]
Exactly
Now put that fact side by side with the new Homeland Security requirements for air travel, requiring passengers to provide their full name and gender at security. So for a transperson in Pennsylvania, they are guaranteed to have contradictory identification for a minimum of one year (the minimum duration of the real life test as per HBIGDA Standards of Care).

People in transition may be able to get the name consistent among documents, but because PA requires surgery for changing gender on state identity documents, this is a de facto travel restriction on all pre-op and non-op transsexuals. I find it just staggering that the officially sanctioned treatment protocol now has built into it a loss of travel rights. Oh, but I suppose Homeland Security will just tell us to 'out' ourselves every time we pass through security. You know, for our safety and security. cough cough

This is further complicated by the fact that the State department policy for passports is that you can get the gender marker changed one year in advance of surgery. The caveat is that if you don't (or can't) get that surgery, then you effectively cannot travel out of the country. And cis people wonder why transpeople feel compelled to get surgery, even if it might not be the best option for them? This society is making it very hard to be a transperson in this society.

As for the demand for pictures, what can one say? It is so beyond the pale that one struggles to find adequate superlatives. If nothing else, I think it demonstrates quite effectively the extent to which corporations dominate our lives, our experiences, and our basic sense of survival. I guess her crime was suspicion of being a pre-op transsexual, a favorite target of HR professionals everywhere. That is to say - they known damn well that pre-op transpeople have virtually no legal employment rights, and so they can pretty much do whatever they feel like. Corporations may be immortal, but clearly they do not have a soul.

And re: the Semenya issue, I heard the story on NPR. It was idiotic, evasive, and generally did nothing to address the audacity of those who require "proof" of gender. I mean really, what is their problem? Simple envy? Cisgender privilege? I'd say the latter. When Cusma refers to Semenya as "These kind of people," it is a wholesale rejection of the authenticity of trans people. And the follow-on statement, that "For her, she's not a woman. She's a man." is just so clearly dehumanizing and delegitimizing that I am again at a loss for words.

At the end of the day, aren't all these stories tied together by the unmentioned commonality, namely the widespread and legally codified - but false - belief that there are only two genders, and that you are either one or the other? So anyone at the margins between male and female must bear the burden of a demonstrably wrong belief system?  


[ Parent ]
Regading Semenya,
the reactions of Cusma and Savinova are classic sore loser symptoms, envy and jealousy, with a dash of T hate thrown in.

It is a combination of plain jealousy, and the fear of anyone different.

I'd say at least from the standpoint of the athletes, that it is mostly jealousy and envy.

The jealousy happens in every sport, at every level, male or female. If Semenya had finished 10th or somesuch, Cusma and Savinova would probably have a different reaction. If an athlete is "different" in any way, it is fine, as long as s/he doesn't beat (the snot out of) you.

Tennis is a pretty good example. When the Williams sisters first burst onto the scene, and were beating the snot out of everyone, there was a strong undercurrent of feeling that they were too "masculine". Now that the new generation of female players have become much more athletic, more muscular, stronger, more "masculine", and the Williams sisters are no longer beating the snot out of everyone, that undercurrent has lessened significantly.

It happened to the Amelie Mauresmo too. She is tall, muscular, has a tattoo on her arm, and is lesbian. When she first started breaking into the top ranks, there was jealousy. Martina Hingis when beaten by her, made nasty and jealous comments about how Mauresmo was "half a man" or "played like a man". Lindsay Davenport, who doesn't exactly fit the stereotypical definition of "feminine" also made similarly jealous and idiotic comments. Mauresmo rightly called them both stupid.

What is utterly disgraceful isn't so much the reactions of people like Cusma, though those reactions are disgusting enough. Those reactions are to be expected. There will always be that mix of jealousy, with a dash of the fear and hate of someone different.

What is utterly disgraceful is how the IAAF, the athletics governing body has handled the whole situation. They are treating Semenya as if she is already guilty. But then, the IAAF, and the Olympics sports in general, have always lagged behind society on various social issues, race, gender, and now gender identity. The IAAF is the governing body that for DECADES banned various mid to long distance events for women, to "protect" the female athletes. The IAAF is the governing body that for DECADES refused to sanction female pole vaulting, again ostensibly for the "safety" of the female athletes.

I agree with you that ultimately the problem is the manichean view of gender. Male or female, one or zero.  


[ Parent ]
Maura, Blatt is not exactly clear about whether there is a letter from a surgeon, nor do the interviewers ask.
At the beginning of the Transponder interview, she said, "I've been in transition for over four years now." Does one normally say that two years or more after SRS surgery? I don't know.

Ten years previously, Blatt was employed by Manpower as a man. When Blatt came back as a woman, a clerk noticed the discrepancy in the records.

13:01 ...so I explained to her that you know I had a little work done, you know after-market stuff, you know, and moved on with my life. You know here's the deal, I offered up a letter of my name change, which I didn't have to do, of the court order, actually, gender markers, information change. She impressed me at that moment by saying to me I don't care what it was, our policies are that we just go by your now identification, you've got a stellar work history. I don't need any copies of any of that stuff. [....]
It appears that Blatt was implying that she had had surgery with the "after-market" remark. Certainly, an uninformed clerk might assume as much. But what Blatt offered as documentation was the court order permitting a name change.

Back to her experience with the Manpower manager:

14:12 ...SAPA ...wants proof of my gender so that I can continue to work there. And I said I offered that to you when I started here of course and you told me it wasn't necessary. I'll give it to you now but I want to know why you are requesting it all of a sudden after I worked there for a month. [...]

15:19 So she says to me ever so casually like it's just like nothing, all they're asking you to do is provide proof of your transition. And I'm like I don't feel that I should have to give them a copy of my SRS letter. Let me put it this way, I believe that that's personal private medical information. I don't believe that after I've had SRS surgery I'm gonna take that letter proactively to every employer I have for the rest of my life. It's not gonna happen. So I was a little offended at that moment. So I said to her I don't understand why you need a letter from my surgeon saying that I've completed surgery. I don't understand why this is even being questioned when all my identity documents and everything is okay.

 So at least twice, Blatt offered to show Manpower employees certain documents and had implied she had had surgery, but when the request to Blatt was finally worded as "proof of your transition" she suddenly balked at providing documentation of SRS surgery.

All of this took place before the famous alleged request for a photograph of Blatt's genitals, which I haven't heard anyone claim would be legal or morally defensible in any case.

My guess, for what it is worth: When Blatt reappeared as a female and offered some sort of documentation, Manpower assumed that she had had SRS surgery. I think this is (or was) a very common assumption people make. When at least one fellow employee complained after seeing Blatt in the locker room, people began to wonder if she were really a woman. And it went downhill from there.

11:40 And I'm like, okay, so what's the complaint?
Oh well, there was a bulge in your pants.
And I'm like I'm on hormones for four years already, okay? There couldn't be a bulge in my pants if I really, really worked at it for hours. You know? It's like, come on, seriously. And I tried to ever so casually explain to this manager...
I assume Blatt is talking about her penis not functioning the way it used to.

By the way, Blatt says that this is one of six trans-related lawsuits she is pursuing right right now.  I'm sorry, but given her propensity for litigation, I've got to ask how she could possibly go into these sorts of fraught situations, like with the Manpower manager, without a recording device.


[ Parent ]
Six separate suits????
That is a bit of a warning flag to a judge, jury or an attorney.

Also, I spoke with a friend of mine for info, she does not regard the "SRS Letter" which in her instance is a notarised document, as a private medical record but as a legal document; it is what would be considered an offer of proof.

I've an unhappy sort of feeling that this is the kind of cause which, when embraced by the LGBT community, comes back to haunt us later

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


[ Parent ]
Well, as always,
I get an unhappy sort of feeling when I witness the rapidity with which people toss their analytical powers out the window, and seemingly want to believe anything without knowing other than one side of a story.

I'm glad the Transponder people put up that recording, but I certainly wouldn't call it an interview.


[ Parent ]
So are you're saying it's shape of genitalia only that makes one male or female?

If you are, you're by inference then calling me a man as I've outed myself as being preoperative.

And, I'm with Jaynatopia. Trans women, with very, very rare exception, don't force themselves into locker rooms before genital reconstruction surgery.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
No Autumn, I am dealing with Pa Law, the reality of legal gender
and that, like it or not, is what we have to deal with

What I am desparately trying to avoid is the eventual issuance of a jsudicial ruling from the Pa bench sanctioning the use of "gender ID" made specific to and made a requirement for transsexuals to access women's space, comparable to the UK's loathsome "gender cards"

And that could become a real possibility, with entry to women's spaces denied transpeople without their SRS letters if this case goes to trial and a negative outcome occurs.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


[ Parent ]
And, a Pa Ruling creating mandatory "gender proof"
would not only be the grounds to roll back some protections in Pennsylvania, the Right would seize upon it to campaign for comparable statuatory laws in other states.

This appears to be the wrong case, at the worst possible time.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


[ Parent ]
And this places countless Lesbians at risk for harrassment
If Ms Blatt has been deceptive and still proceeds with the case, and continues to make it high profile, then the rights of thousands of non-gender conforming Lesbians in Pennsylvania as well as in other places are endangered by the possibility of a negative finding or ruling.


I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

[ Parent ]
I don't think;
the transgender in this group and elsewhere have any idea how badly this could turn on them.
This won't have any effect on women of operative history that have all their documents in order.

This case can potentially effect every person in transition and every person who identifies as transgender from here on if in fact the court finds Blatt was deceptive.  


[ Parent ]
It won't effect you if you have your papers for the Gender Gestapo
otherwise, forget your papers and use the mens room...

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

[ Parent ]
Had
my papers for so long it doesn't make any difference,
It's sad for the up and coming that they won't enjoy the same compartmentalization from the past as I do.  
It really does make a difference because even though I am fat middle aged and less than attractive I have standing in female society. I can work and not have to worry about an employer uncovering some history, it's all gone and has been for decades.

I find it sad the transgender folks of the present day are so unwilling to work with the system to attain their goal like we did back in the days before stonewall. They are only cutting their own throats by tryng to force the system to work on their terms instead of working the system on it's own terms.

Too much talk of privilege and not enough hard work.
It's really a shame what they are doing to themselves.


[ Parent ]
Gender Gestapo?
Who constitutes the Gender Gestapo?

forget your papers and use the mens room...
Well, the Blatt case, such as we know only from what she has said, has more to do with a locker/change room than a restroom.

[ Parent ]
Gender Gestapo tend to be fundie women
I've had friends, Butch Lesbians, pointed to as men by fundie women who knew better just to make a scene

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

[ Parent ]
Well...
One's personal identity aside, Autumn, genitals in fact do define male and female to virtually the entire population except for some - not even all - of those involved in the gender debate.  Social Security requires an SRS letter before they will change the sex designation.  I recently heard that Washington will issue a birth certificate without an SRS letter, don't know if its true, but if it is, they are the only state that will.  It's all well and good to identify as female, but it's completely unreasonable to expect the mainstream to simply accept and recognize that, particularly if one hasn't had GRS.

If this lady has in fact had GRS and had all of her identity documents changed then I'm on her side completely...let them eat cake; she doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.  On the other hand, if she hasn't, I don't blame those that complained in the least.  


[ Parent ]
I
Totally Agree;
The legal definition of a man and a woman is tied to the physical sex of the person, Like it or not that is the law.

Some things you just can't change regardless of what a person "proclaims" they are.  


[ Parent ]
This;
doesn't shed a good light on the TG community.  

[ Parent ]
locker rooms
most work locker rooms aren't about getting naked; most are about storing your items safely while you work or put on work shoes and slip on a jumpsuit. I don't recall hearing trans women before surgery ever insist on being naked in gendered spaces where they can be seen.  

co-host of trans-ponder

[ Parent ]
I can identify with Caster Semenya
From early on, I'm been mistaken for a boy/man at times. I played sports and was quite muscular. In grade school, I had boys coming up to me and challenging me to fights.  Turns out that I should have taken them up on the offer as I was later tormented by my peers at Christian Jr. High School. In my late teens/early 20s, even 30s, I was constantly approached with, "Can I help you, sir?"  One advantage- I was waited on much more quickly then when the majority could tell that I was a woman. I think that things have changed somewhat over the years due to people's awareness of those who don't quite fit (lookswise and behaviorally)in the box, but we obviously have a long way to go. Thanks for sharing these stories Autumn and good luck with your medical tests.

My Jaw Dropped.
Beside any legal issues, etc, why is there an assumption that Ms Blatt is the only trans person working there? If she has to "prove" she is a woman, why shouldn't the other women who work there?  It's such a horribly intrusive action to be expected for anyone in any circumstance that I cannot beleave it would be tolerated for non-trans people!

She may not be
however she is the one who had worked there before as a man. That is what caught the attention of the management.  

[ Parent ]
Autumn, two questions
1.  Is there a transcript of this interview somewhere? If not, can you clue me in as to how long it is and at what point the discussion of the employment case begins? I listened to four minutes and heard music and chit-chat about small town life.

2.  When did the interview take place?

Thanks.


The part of the interview with that segment...

...starts at about the 16:20 point in the audio, with the transcribed segment lasting less than two minutes.

The entire audio is about 50-minutes long. The "real" part of the interview starts about 5:40 into the audio. She gives a fairly long and detailed run up to what happened to have Manpower behave as they did.

The interview was recorded on the evening of August 19th, and was posted on Thursday, August 20th, 2009 at 12:29 PM.

There is no complete transcript of the audio...An aquaintence used her Dragon Naturally Speaking program to create a draft transcription of the segment, and I filled the segment out with which the who-said-what.

When I listened this afternoon, I played it in the background while I did other things...kinda like listening to radio.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
Thanks very much.
I've been trying to listen to the whole thing and transcribe relevant parts. And I was wishing I had one of those voice recognition transcribers. It takes forever to do it accurately the old-fashioned way.

[ Parent ]
Oooops
sorry for the double post. My connection tonight is horrible.

Frankly
I'm getting sick and tired of these heterosexual religious freaks demanding that we join in their weird perverse rituals by posting up photos of every transsexual, lesbian, bisexual or gay person in compromising or revealing positions in order to satisfy their lewd, twisted, sick fantasies under the guise of proper business concerns. Why can't they just leave us alone and go spawn someone useful?

But seriously, to Maura above: I don't care if it's the legal issue - she honestly outed herself as a transsexual. All they have is the word of everyone else in that office. Now if they want to take unidentified photos of everyone's genitalia and play some sort of Mix and Match game where they decide which ones go to which bathroom and people know their secret numbers or some shit, that's fine and fair if somewhat twisted. (It would probably attract the wrong sort of employee to HR.) This sounds like unreasoning, unrestrained licentious curiosity disguised as social concern.

Willow: It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.
Buffy: Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was.
Angel: Well, actually... That's a good point.


Frankly
As a Lesbian activist, I am concerned about the LGBT commmunity being enlisted in the cause of a litigious and a deceptive individual to our collective detriment.

Honestl;y outed herself?

I am not so sure just how honestly.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


[ Parent ]
In addition
In Pennsylvania, if she is changing with the women and has represented herself as post operative to do so, and it turns out that she is not post operative, then Pa law outside of a few municipalities and counties is quite clear...and this is exactly NOT the case that we want getting attention on nearly every Trans and many LGBT blogs as we head into the ENDA battle.....because the Right will have a field day with it.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

[ Parent ]
Um
Doesn't the right have a field day with ANYTHING?

I mean, look at the whole bama-killed-grandma stuff.

I do understand what you're saying though, but for the type of visceral response the right goes for, all they need is a target, not a reason.

Willow: It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.
Buffy: Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was.
Angel: Well, actually... That's a good point.


[ Parent ]
I agree the reich wing doesn't need a scapegoat or target
They will glom on to one if it's useful, but they are just as likely to make sh*t up, or quote some bogus "study" which is just sh*t they made up, and wrote down.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner


[ Parent ]
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