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A Painful Moment Of Cultural Insensitivity Towards Trans People On MTV's America's Best Dance Crew

by: Autumn Sandeen

Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 16:00:00 PM EDT



This diary is second media commentary regarding how trans people are talked about on television in two days, but in this commentary I'm going to take a more educational tone than I did in my last piece.

For those of you who don't follow MTV's America's Best Dance Crew, you should probably should be aware at the start of this piece there is an extremely talented dance crew on the show of four African-American gay men and one self-identified transgender woman. The name of this incredible dance crew is Vogue Evolution. The female dancer in this crew -- Leiomy -- gave a particularly fantastic, jaw-dropping performance in week two's Beyonce Challenge.

But, in the fourth episode of this series, there were behind the scenes comments by judge Lil Mama to the dancer Leiomy that has upset many trans people. And, I'm one of the ones who's somewhat disquieted by Lil Mama's insensitive comments.

Basically, in attempting to exhort Leiomy about behaving like a first class performer, Lil Mama used some less than sensitive language to make the point.

Lil Mama: "Leiomy, your behavior. Come on. It's unacceptable. I just feel that you always have to remember your truth. You were born a man, and you are becoming a woman. If you're going to become a woman, act like a lady. Don't be a bird, like "oh my god, I'm not doing this." You know what I'm saying, it gets too crazy, and it gets confusing. You're doing this for America. Even though you're the face for transgenders, you're the face for America right now with this group, and it's not about anybody else, it's about y'all. So do it for the team."

There are a number of problems with Lil Mama's comments. When I've seen this discussed among gays and lesbians, they don't seem to get what the problems are with the comment. So, I believe I need to explain why this comment by Lil Mama has angered and frustrated a lot of trans folk I know.

For those of you here at Pam's House Blend who aren't transgender and/or transsexual, try to imagine Lil Mama's criticism framed in terms of your sexual orientation.

"Bob, your behavior. Come on. It's unacceptable. I just feel that you always have to remember your truth. You were a heterosexual man, and you are becoming a gay icon. If you're going to become a gay, act like a gay man. Don't be a queen, like "oh my god, I'm not doing this." You know what I'm saying, it gets too crazy, and it gets confusing. You're doing this for America. Even though you're the face for homosexuals, you're the face for America right now with this group, and it's not about anybody else, it's about y'all. So do it for the team."

Watch the video that surrounds the comment on Leiomy's behavior: Lil Mama wasn't really commenting on Leiomy's gender identity, but on her behavior as a performer. Lil Mama didn't need to frame her comment in terms of gender identity. If Lil Mama believed Leiomy's behavior was unsatisfactory, then she should have framed it in those terms, and not in terms of this dancer's gender identity. How she framed her comments in terms of gender identity was just as offensive as if she'd had framed similar comments regarding performance in terms of sexual orientation.

Secondly, as the front page trans woman contributor here at The Blend, let me clearly state that Leiomy and I are both women. Trans women are a kind of women, much as African-American women, lesbian women, disabled women, and women veterans are kinds of women. The dancer isn't "becoming a woman"; the dancer is a woman.

A transition involves the physical and social process to live one's truth about one's gender identity, but it isn't about the truth of the gender identity itself.  Again, putting this in terms of sexual orientation...

[More below the fold.]  

Autumn Sandeen :: A Painful Moment Of Cultural Insensitivity Towards Trans People On MTV's America's Best Dance Crew
Again, putting this in terms of sexual orientation, it would be the same as saying someone in their first years coming out as LGB was "becoming gay," "becoming lesbian," or "becoming bisexual." If you're gay, lesbian, or bisexual, would you have been offended in your first couple of years of being out as LGB if someone told you that you were "becoming ___"?

Thirdly, why is a trans woman being told by a straight woman how the right way to be a trans woman is to be a lady? Again, putting this in terms of sexual orientation, it would be like a straight man telling a gay man the right way to be a gay man. Or in Lil Mama's case, having a caucasian woman telling her the right way to be an African-American woman. Telling someone how to be a better person is gender identity, sexual orientation, and ethnicity neutral, and in my opinion it would have been a much more identity sensitive, more appropriate, and more effective  way to mentor Leiomy if it had been done in an identity neutral way.

And lastly --and on a little more technical note -- the term transgender is an adjective; it's a descriptor. For example, one isn't a transgender, one would be a transgender man, a transgender woman, or a a transgender person. That seems like a small thing, I know, but wouldn't you think that MTV and the producers for the show would have given the judges some basic training on transgender terminology? If a judge on the show doesn't understand how the term transgender is an adjective and not a noun, how much homework do you think MTV and the producers did on trans people and terminology, and in turn how much trans cultural sensitivity training would you believe that the network and the producers made sure occured for the judges of a trans contestant on trans terminology?

I don't believe Lil Mama was intentionally transphobic in the slightest, but I do believe she was very culturally insensitive; I believe it was completely wrongheaded to frame her comment on being a performer in terms of a trans woman's gender identity. Lil Mama's mentoring came off to me as offensive in large part because it seemed so condescending to a trans contestant in particular, and trans people in general.

I certainly believe this was a show failure based on an inadequate plan by MTV and the show's producers to educate themselves and the judges on trans people and issues. America's Best Dance Crew just could have done better with a little more effort. My hope is that they all work together to fix the issues related to the show's handling of a trans contestant in particular, and trans people in general.

Frankly, the showcasing of a dance crew that highlights four gay and one trans African-American dancers does so much to highlight the diversity of the LGBT community in such a positive way. I hope this one disquieting moment becomes a teaching moment for MTV, the America's Best Dance Crew's producers, and all of the judges on the show -- instead of a moment where trans or LGBT community members just viciously rip on the show for one moment of cultural insensitivity.

In my mind, it's a good thing when we all aim to be a little more educated on cultural issues; to do better at being culturally sensitive.

~~~~~
Further Reading:
* glaadBLOG: Lil Mama Makes Controversial Critique on America's Best Dance Crew
* Feministing: Lil Mama's unnecessary comment about being transgender and transition status on America's Best Dance Crew

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Thanks Autumn, nicely reported and analyzed.
...with 'lessons' clearly stated. This is a keeper for me to use for quotes in the future.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.


Used prior discussions, yesterday.

Made comment under story on Trans Methodist Minister, with 5 children. One commenter stated she wasn't nosy... just wanted to know the details!

I receommended she 'not nosily' ask her parents what position they used to conceive her and then decide if that's nosy or not. 



It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.


[ Parent ]
Oooh, I like that...
It's really quite good.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

[ Parent ]
I see the point and it is an issue.
I get what Lil Mama was trying to say and while I think she said it poorly and inappropriately public, I don't think she was trying to nail down transgenders in type. We all have a long way to go in the way we communicate with each other and yes "culturally insensitive" is a great way to describe what the problem was. But I think what Lil mama was trying to say was that Leiomy should be aware of her surroundings and not let others (like the camera crew and the show itself) portray her as a stereotype. Which is exactly what they did in their little summary film. But the other issue is that Lil Mama was way out of line by calling her on that issue during the judging. As the other two judges where quick to point out, once the performance is done, that is what counts. Its obvious that even in her ignorance and inappropriateness Lil mama cares for the transgendered. She like so many of us though still have a great deal to learn.

Always thinking about it...

AUGH!

Kudo451, you missed my final techinical point! Trans people like me are transgender people, not transgenders! AUGH!

Okay, again, it's a small point in the bigger picture, but it's an important point if one wants to appear educated on trans issues. Transgender is used as an adjective; it's not correctly used as a noun. So, saying or writing "transgenders" is grammatically incorrect; the grammatically proper terms would be "transgender ____" (filling in the blank with "people," "women," "men," etc.).

But as to one of your main points, I'd gently disagree. By saying that Leiomy should behave like a "lady" after telling her that she was "becoming a woman," I believe Lil Mama was somewhat condescendingly telling her to be a stereotype of a real woman. Again, I don't believe the intent was transphobic, but it was so culturally insensitive to both Leiomy in particular, and trans people in general, that the mentoring that Lil Mama was trying to accomplish lost its clarity and value in the cultural insensitivity.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
I agree, but...
people like me are transgender people, not transgenders

Unfortunately, there are still some prominent trans people who say 'transgenders,' so there are going to be non-trans people who get the impression that such phraseology is acceptable.

>^..^<

[ Parent ]
Not to mention that grammatically,
it is still correct in the wider societal framework we all operate in.

Autumn's working to change that, but in the meantime, its unwise in my opinion to posit something as such when, technically speaking, its in error.


http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
See my note as to why, as media, using transgender as an adj is preferred...

here. This is one of those issues about how using the LGBT media guides as members of the media -- online, television, published, etc... -- to refer to LGBT people is the preferred course of action.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
I know
Its why I noted you were working to change that, and made it clear that it is my opinion.



http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
transgenders arrrrrrrrrr
If you had a group of say cross dressers, transvestites and transsexuals then you could be justified using transgenders its not that hard to get it rightis it?  Even calling her a transgender is still technically wrong.  But I am not even going to go into the American bastardisation of the term transgender.

Love who you are on the inside and the outside will follow.

[ Parent ]
Huh?

Seriously, I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
Two countries devided by a common language
Its a Trans-Atlantic difference we seem to have going in definition and how transgender is used! :)

Love who you are on the inside and the outside will follow.

[ Parent ]
Ah!

Nooooooooow it makes no sense is a sensical way! :)

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
Something just occurred to me, lol
American bastardization would imply the term was not an American one, and yet every major source I can find indicates that it originated in American English by an American, even though a great part of its use as described was popularized by the American writer Feinberg.

Given that history and esential etymology of the term, would that make the European usage of the term the bastardiation of it, and doesn't that lead to further elements of the colonial application of the term outside its native sphere?

I realize that may come across as fairly snarky, but eh -- it wasn't meant as such and I found the characterization of the term fascinating.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
I think you may have missed the point
  Many transsexuals want input from Cis women to make sure they are losing the 'Male' habits they have learned in order to pass.  True it is putting a sense of what a woman is supposed to act and look like, but the truth is it happens.

 There is no right way or wrong way to transition, each of us make our own paths.  We may offer our opinion when asked and the person who asks can do what they want with the information given.

 Example.  I have been told I had GRS way to soon, 7 months after coming out.  Many people including psychologists and psychiatrists who said that 4 years ago will say I did what I needed to but would not recommend my path to others.

 As for insensitivity, there are transsexuals who don't like being lumped in with the umbrella term transgender.

 

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.


[ Parent ]
Yep
"Thirdly, why is a trans woman being told by a straight woman how the right way to be a trans woman is to be a lady? Again, putting this in terms of sexual orientation, it would be like a straight man telling a gay man the right way to be a gay man."

Which they do all the time, btw. For some straight guys, there is a certain type of gay man they can be comfortable around, and they tend to either reject the idea of being friends with gay men who don't meet their criteria, or they try to make their gay friends act more like they think gay men should act like.

I'll bet this happens to anyone whose identity is associated with stereotypes.


Ahem...
Thirdly, why is a trans woman being told by a straight woman how the right way to be a trans woman is to be a lady?

Addendum, dear woman:  since when is my being straight and my being trans two opposites?

;)  Prolly a minor correction is needed there.  I'm a straight woman, you see.

I'm just not a Cis woman.


http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


Ah, crap. More...
Strictly speaking, whilst the APA stylebook is suggestive of it being used such, it is not a hard and fast rule that transgender is an adjective.

This was news to me, btw, until I sat down and looked up it.  Such is a preference, but, its listing in the two major dictionaries (which are the first resource for media and publishing) allows for its use as a noun.

RH lists the noun form first.  AH lists the adjective form first. Both still note the noun.In both cases, it is use to describe a person who is a trangeder person, and/or who appears to be in the process or displays characteristics of a transsexual or person changing their sex.

I know that it is not the policy of PHB to use it as such, however, that is the general understanding of persons outside the general LGBT community and even to a great degree outside the trans specific community.

So, in the broader context of the nation, transgender can be used as a noun, and more often than not will be.

Sorry -- you prolly know I'm on this "reality" trip right now.  I'll get over it soon enough...

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
As a member of the LGBT media...

...I go with the two LGBT media guides, and recommend other LGBT writers (legacy and new media reporters, bloggers, etc.) stick to what GLAAD and the NLGJA say is the proper use of the term as an adjective.

I personally would prefer to use the term transgender as a noun (because gay, lesbian, and bisexual are primarily nouns), but I'm more comfortable following what the media experts in our broad community -- and I know trans media experts had input into both of these media guides -- say about how grammatically to use the term transgender.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
Now that's rather intersting to me
Because I'd prefer it be left to either adjectival or Identity category forms, lol.

Language, sadly, is not shaped by what the smaller elements of society wish it to be (that would be lingo), but rather by the wider context and society in which it is used.

As I noted, you (and these others) are working towards the changing of that usage through influencing the media.  That will, in the present day, have the greatest impact -- but its a many year'd journal.

However, like I've said before, the last few years have been incredible in terms of coverage and exposure, and that's what will give us the change we seek.

Then again, I see the term as a descriptor of a specific class of persons, or as a self claimed Identity category for political purposes.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
Oh yeah.

This is kind of drifting off topic, but not really too far since we're discussing identity politics in the diary.

But, I do identify, from a very personal idenitification that describes my identity most closely, as a transsexual.

From a sociopolitical perspective though, I definitely identify as transgender -- I identify under the umbrella term. Not every transsexual identifies under the umbrella term, but I'm one who does specifically because of the broader civil rights persective of to provide protections for gender variance from societal norms, gender identity, and gender expression.

And too, I embrace diversity. Identifying myself as transgender is a way of saying that even though I don't identify by every term under the transgender umbrella, I do embrace the wide diversity of gender experience people have beyond the binary of male and female. And, I want to associate myslef with that diversity of human gender experience.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
That's pretty close to me, too
Although I have, in recent months, shed the Identity Class of transgender for myself, I can still be grouped in a political sense as a transgender.

I identify as many, many things, though, and I've come a a point where the easiest descriptors for accurately conveying who I am and what I identify as are my names.

Which doesn't bode well when you consider that dyssonance is one of them, lmao

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
The better word here would have been cissexual...

...so even though I usually pick and choose my words very carefully, I'm not a totally perfect wordsmith. :)

I get your point though. :) Trans and straight aren't mutually exclusive, since straight is more often used as an opposite of gay than as an opposite of trans gender identities.

I have seen straight used as an opposite to trans gender identities previously though, so even though I'd say my use of straight wasn't a completely incorrect use of the term, I will say your point is duly noted: I believe, rereading that paragraph, that cissexual would have been the better word to have used for clarity.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
I know.
But, in the interest of avoiding an assumed erasure of straight trans lives (which underlies a certain element of division in the trans community), one would be culurally sensitive.

(and yeah, there's a big teasing grin on my face right now, lol)

On a note, the use of straight also furthers the conflation of gender identity issues with sexual orientation in this contextual sphere.

By some lights, that's not entirely a good thing.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
Which is why I'm going to be using cissexual in the future. :)


-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
*giggles*
and a hug, too :)

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

[ Parent ]
This whole thing was unnecessarily crafted around her sexual identity -

The criticism was "Don't behave unprofessionally." Anything beyond that was simply gratuitous titillation - encouraged and broadcast by the network to try to sell more damned soap.

Any troupe performer who walks out of the last dress rehearsal in a professional theater is unemployed - right that stinking minute.  

I have seen it happen.

There is no discussion about their marital status, sexual identity, what breed of dog they have, what their favorite color is, or any other extraneous crap.  


Question:  What does an atheist do when they fall to the floor and start "speaking in tongues"?

Answer: Get a CAT scan.


A few thoughts
And lastly --and on a little more technical note -- the term transgender is an adjective; it's a descriptor. For example, one isn't a transgender, one would be a transgender man, a transgender woman, or a a transgender person. That seems like a small thing, I know, but wouldn't you think that MTV and the producers for the show would have given the judges some basic training on transgender terminology? If a judge on the show doesn't understand how the term transgender is an adjective and not a noun, how much homework do you think MTV and the producers did on trans people and terminology, and in turn how much trans cultural sensitivity training would you believe that the network and the producers made sure occured for the judges of a trans contestant on trans terminology?

I think this is little more than laying traps for the unwary without furthering any kind of social good. I mean, "gay" is an adjective, and I prefer when it's used as such ("gay people"), but anyone who gets hot and bothered when it's used as a noun ("gays and lesbians") probably needs to take a few deep breaths and pick their battles more carefully.

Transgender issues are hard enough for us cis folks, even who are gay. There's a lot there that doesn't make sense to me and that I honestly can't empathize with transgender people no matter how hard I try. So we have to learn as we go. That's totally on us, and I am learning and trying to be a good neighbor and ally in all the ways I want straight people to be toward gays.

On the other hand, I cannot for the life of me see how insisting on something like transgender being an adjective (when the root word, gender, is not) accomplishes anything other than alienating people who are trying to be good allies.

OK, that aside, please help me out here:

I hear what you are saying with regard to gay people not BECOMING gay but rather "coming out" as gay -- i.e. realizing that they are and always have been gay. But I'd think the analogy would be that you don't become transgender but instead come out as transgender, whereas your gender is how you define it. If you used to identify as a man but now identify as a woman, I'd say there was a change in your gender there. I have no problem saying that closeted gay dudes (who call themselves straight) are "actually" gay, and I'd understand saying that closeted transgender people are "actually" transgender even if they identify as cis. But if, while they are in the closet, they identify as a man, how could they be wrong? If gender is however we identify, then if someone changes their gender identity, they've changed their gender.

Is that wrong, in your view?


My View, it's like coming out.
  I always felt I was a woman with the wrong parts.  Most Gay People I know that tried to live a straight life see it the same way.  We tried to hide who we where because of societal pressure.  Only to come to terms this is who we are, quit the hiding BS, and be who we really are.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

[ Parent ]
If I may...
... without catching hell for being disruptive and combative...

Speaking strictly for myself, I understand the empathize issue.  Try as hard as I can, I cannot empathize with gay men.  I can, however, sympathize with them, and I can reach an academic understanding of the issues and pressures in their lives by listening to them.  Then again, I have practice in doing so, and can apply it appropriately when needed. I doubt you've had much time or inclination to give effort over to trying to relate the aspects of being gay to the aspects of being trans yourself for the purpose of justifying some aspect of your perception or experience to others, though.

Note, as well, that when one speaks of identifying, one is referring to the very nature of Identity Politics, not to an individual's sense of self within themselves. So it's actually quite common for their not to be a gender change from the perspective of the trans person undergoing such -- typically, in the minds of most, a transsexual.

in other words, no, gender is not how we identify ourselves, it is how we are identified by others.  This is the foundation of the idea of gender as performative (that is, an aspect of social construction).

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
I know why I always consider you a friend,
in other words, no, gender is not how we identify ourselves, it is how we are identified by others.  This is the foundation of the idea of gender as performative (that is, an aspect of social construction).

LOVE and HUGGS,  HappyCat and Family.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.


[ Parent ]
*blush*
Thanks -- and mutual!

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

[ Parent ]
As for the article overall
Lil Mama was extraordinarily rude in doing such -- essentially subjecting the contestant to an argument of "you aren't woman enough".

FOr an additional example, its akin to saying to a gay man who acts straight that he's not gay enough, or to a very femme lesbian that she's not lesbian enough.

It is, in this view, a highly sexist statement having as its purpose the reduction of one's value as a member of the class being described.

IN shorter, easier terms: its an insult; she called the gal a man.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


Absolutely the right call - Education!
I first heard of the Lil Mama comments over at Facebook, where someone picked up The Advocate coverage, which rather sensationalisticly played this up as "transphobia."  I agree with Autumn's analysis that the comments came from Lil Mama having a world-view of "transgender" that is out-of-date (but still out there in the world).

As it is, there isn't universal understanding even within the trans* community(ies) as to terminology, meanings and definitions, or even the understanding of the underlying phenomena of what it is that "makes us tick."

In context, while Leiomy clearly states that she is "the face of transgender" it does not appear that she is identifying "transgender" as some sort of third-sex, though I'd have to ask her about that.

I do know that i am just as likely as Autumn to identify Leiomy in the same way that I identify myself - and in so doing, I would analyze the situation much as Autum does here in her educational post.  But are we correct?

Having cast a seed of doubt as to the exact nature of Leiomy's self-identification, I still think it's likely that Autumn did read things correctly.

Perhaps we really need to update some of the more common terminology.

Instead of using "Male-to-Female" (MTF or M2F) - the more accurate terms would be "Woman Born Transsexual" or Woman Born Transgender" (WBT).

Similarly "Female-to-Male" (FTM or F2M) becomes "Man Born Transgender" OR "Man Born Transsexual" (MBT).

The reason for this change in terminology? The old terms make it seem that the individual really was the initial erroneously-assigned sex, and is changing to the new sex.  That sounds a lot like Lil Mama's world-view, doesn't it?  We really should not be continuing to use terminology that reinforces old stereotypes.

Then we can make some room for those who do identify as Transgender, as a sort of third sex.  That term still does include my friend A., who was born female, still identifies as female, but also identifies as transgender, who binds and does not ever wear an article of "women's" clothing.  She is not transitioning, and if she was in her 20's there's be one of those terms like "boi" that she would be using.  

So if we appropriate the term Transgender in such a way as to mean Transsexual (regardless of op status or intent), then we might leave out people like my friend A.

On the other hand, if we include in Transsexual everyone who self-identifies that way regardless of op status or intent, then there are others who either don't want to incluse people not in their op-status classification, or complain about colonization (either by being included within a transgender umbrella, or by having some people who they would perceive as transgender being included in the understanding of transsexual).

There, I have rambled my way into the thicket of the trans-identity minefield.

In the meantime, though, I think Autumn'a educatory analysis is pretty much spot on. It's just that there will always be people who will disagree.



Well, the only limitation there is that I wasn't born transsexual.
And I really dislike the hyphenation aspect.  Linguistically speaking, its a really poor construction that is somewhat appropriative.

It is, as an example, the same as saying woman-born-bipolar (such being a physiological condition which is classified according to the nature of the harm done) or man-born-with-Alzheimer's (likewise structured).

However, I will not deny those who wish to use such an identity class for themselves the right to do so -- just do not apply it to me.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
Whatever floats your boat
I'm one of those who see the "Harry Benjamin Syndrome" medical model of transsexuality as making more sense than the psychiatric disorder model. (I take some of the often-associated separatist thinking and discard it as not essential to the medical model working.)

In that model, there are one or more genetic predispositions (example, long androgen receptor gene) that lead to brain development going one way, while genital duct development goes the other way - that's what I would mean as being "born transsexual."

In a way, it means being born not-male/not-female but something else - in classic cases, female-brained/male-genitaled or male-brained/female-genitaled.

There are certainly other models for explaining the underlying phenomenon, but this, or something like this, takes the brain development and considers it more determinative of sex than the genital development.

In this particular world-view, some people are born cissexual, some are born transsexual.  Perhaps some are born something else entirely. I don't know for sure.

Of course, having a different understanding of the underlying phenomena can lead to an explanation of other identities - one who does not identify as being "born transsexual" may be using a different model to explain the phenomena.  Until we know for sure which model or models best explain the phenomena, the jury is out.



[ Parent ]
Limitations
Note that the current model is actually a phsyiological one that addresses treatment of a certain part of the issue. There is a great deal of misunderstanding about its structure stemming from old and unexamined pretexts.

Limitations of that are that none of the studies thus far are conclusive -- for example, the long androgen cells are found in a roughly equal proportion of the cis population.

All of it is suggestive, without a doubt, but, like sexual orientation, the cause is likely going to be significantly more complex and exceptionally unlikely to be classified along the DSD lines.

This is one of the problems with the etiology model of differentiation, and is subject to a peculiar flaw that is not germane to the general discussion.


http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
Curiosity . . .
. . . led me to get around to taking a peek at your website. Iconoclastic seems like a good descriptor (meant in a positive sense).

Anyway, figuring out how to explain what makes us tick seems to me to be a lot like developments in cosmology.  We're somewhere past Ptolomaic and Copernican systems and perhaps are up to a point where the science is starting to overtake the art.  There is still plenty of room for semiotic development in our understanding of the phenomena.  World-views (or if you prefer I don't hyphenate, our own particular versions of weltenschaung) are still evolving as facts filter in.

Some of what I do in a Trans 101 lecture has little to do with the underlying science, and more to do with getting people to expand from a pure and simple binary view of sex and gender, to an understanding that there is diversity out there.   That part, though, isn't what Lil Mama needs; I think she's probably more okay with diversity than a lot of other people.

If she has an issue, then it's one that relates to how to understand Leiomy.  Lil Mama's weltenschaung appears to be one that fits into a combination of transition being from man to woman and then relying on feminine stereotypes to define how a lady acts.

I make the assumption that Lil Mama isn't familiar with the prima donna type, and how Leiomy might fit that with her little behind-the-scenes hissy fit, or has that aspect of stereotypical feminine behavior either isn't in Lil Mama's bag of stereotypes for women, or maybe (gasp!) it might not be in her bag of stereotypes for transgender women! (That last thought is somewhat bothersome, and reminds me of the enforced stereotypes of gatekeepers from the 1970's, still the Blanchard/Bailey/Lawrence model, which then turned into the basis for that dolt Paul McHugh to make it seem that we're supposed to be caricatures of women (a view recently echoed by Germaine Greer).

The frustrating thing about that line of stereotype is that some gatekeepers used to require this sort of extreme femmie attracted-to-men "ladylike" stereotypical behavior as a prerequisite.  (1970 is the year I was told that I couldn't be transsexual because I was attracted to women, and they "weren't going to cure me of one mental disorder to give me another one.")

I do agree with comments made in response to the "incident" that indicate that Lil Mama didn't have to relate the "being a lady" thing to Leiomy's trans status at all.  

Perhaps the being a lady aspect of it can be analyzed, too - what we're dealing with in the competition is (I think, since I've only seen the clip) precision dancing by a group - and the group dynamic requires that the participants work well together in cooperation.  There's nothing sexed or gendered about that.

One of the other panelists described in a positive way how one ot the other members of the dance team gives it up for the team when he gets stepped on by a stiletto heel as part of the act.  It's less about the stereotype of being a lady and more about teamwork.


[ Parent ]
Thanks :D
Iconoclastic is probably a really good descriptor, lol

Especially of late.

Looking at the implicature in her statements and the overall tenor of the communication, I' more inclined toward the transgender stereotype aspect, given her background and general social experience that can be determined from an admittedly cursory examination of her life story.  Its certainly not something new to Lil Mama, given her history, and the particulars of the social structure (influenced heavily by your noted examples) therein, combined with the particulars of the dance world.

So my take, based on the information available to me is that the bothersome gasp is what's being looked at.  Lensed, of course, through the entertainment media and ratings expectations.

Sadly, there are still some who do that sort of stereotyping as gatekeepers -- many more, these days, do not.

The "being a lady" aspect is indeed something I'd be interested in a more deep manner (and, in fact, attempted before, and am still learning from the experiences which have been failures within the community, but success outside it).

Its all about the teamwork and dance -- the behavior offstage has some bearing (in terms of relating to employers and getting cast), but the contest's nature mitigates that.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
Lil'Mama sounded stupid
Autumn I totally agree with you. I am not transgender myself, but I believe there was some real hating on Lil'Mama reaction to Leiomy, in spite of the fact that she tried to patched it up with a kiss at the end.  

Starting with her criticism of Vogue Evolution, Lil'Mama have no grounds to come out like that.  To me she sounded, like she wanted to snatch the spot light back to herself. I even think that she was jealous of Leiomy, because, for Leiomy, to be able to step over her team mates, in high heels mind you, and not to cause serious damage, flip on mid-air and them land with a twist and smile, only some one who knows danger close are personal can dare to do that.  It will be interesting to see Lil'Mama performance career to see if she can pull something like that herself.   That performance was off the hook.  To be able to transform a ballywood choreography, and bring contemporary vogueing to the mixed, the pressure along would had driven me crazy to the point of breaking out, and yet Leiomy came out, she played hard and she rocked it.  

But Lil' Mama hating did not ended there, it went on to sensationalized a life experience that Lil' Mama knows nothing about.  Her statements  
1)"Leiomy, your behavior. Come on. It's unacceptable. I just feel that you always have to remember your truth." I did not see in any shape, way, or form Leiomy's denial of her identity.  You will asked someone to remember their truth self when that someone is in denial of self; And that is not Leiomy.

2)" You were born a man, and you are becoming a woman. If you're going to become a woman, act like a lady." Lil'Mama fixation with Leiomy process is more a reflection of her lack of tolerance for Leiomy's process than it is Leiomy's inability to act as a woman.   How much Woman can you get than Leiomy?  For a minute there this comment sounded more like my pussy is real and yours is not.  Let me remind you about pussy.  

3)" Don't be a bird, like "oh my god, I'm not doing this." Now Leiomy according to Lil'Mama went from being human to an animal.  What the fuck is that suppose to mean, that we humans do not make mistakes, or change our minds, or act confuse at times?

4)" You know what I'm saying, it gets too crazy, and it gets confusing. You're doing this for America. Even though you're the face for transgenders, you're the face for America right now with this group, and it's not about anybody else, it's about y'all. So do it for the team."  Lil'Mama sounded more like careful you acting too much like yourself, will send TV audiences to a non-comfortable zone.  Lil'Mama comments sounded to me like when my mother asked me not to act queer when coming out of the closet.  

In all, Lil'Mama sounded more like she is the one with the tolerance problem.  I wonder if she would have said the same thing to a non transgender women.  You acted like a bird because you acted confused and did not wanted to play.  I wonder if she would have reminded the non transgender women to act like a lady for hating the choreography?   But then again, it is possible cause Lil'Mama comments were dimwitted at worst.


She could not have said the same things to ciswomen
Because the concept in her mind would not have been there had she not known that Leiomy was trans.

She might have said "act more like a lady" to another ciswoman, but the requirement of gender performance is needed for her to state the rest.

She was insulting in the name of policing -- "toe the line or others will know your little deception", in effect.

It is the sort of thing that keeps many transfolk -- men and women -- uncounted and uncountable as they seek assimilation and invisibility.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
Lil'Mama hating on Leiomy
I was just watching a video of Lil'Mama battling Leiomy on a Latex Ball 2006 and Leiomy kicked her ass.  That is what her hating is all about.  Thank you for the ciswoman, perfect I did not know the term.  

[ Parent ]
I'm not sure of that
Girls hear this all the time from their mothers - "act like a lady!" when they're doing something that Mom doesn't think is particularly ladylike.

There's often no more in it.  It's one way we learn how to socialize.  

Perhaps Lil Mama was taking on this sort of parental role with regard to Leiomy, though she couched her comments in conenction with transition, her aim could have been to be like a mom to her non-conforming daughter.

This is consistent with her proclamation of being a big fan of Vogue Evolution.


[ Parent ]
However...
It's not a child she was dealing with, but an adult, and the structures for dealing with adults are different socially.

It wasn't her place to mother -- if so, then she was being just as unprofessional in her actions as she was stating Leiomy was.

This is especially true in the sense you used in your spin of intent -- in sucha  case, that would have been far better handed in private.

I can say if someone tried that with any of my daughters, they'd get a whuppin lol.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
It's a television show, after all
Handling it in private isn't on the radar - especially when the audience is treated to video of the practice session.  

If it was real world rather than reality TV, I'd agree with you.

The next question could be whether the whole incident was manufactured for the camera.  It wouldn't be that unusual.  


[ Parent ]
Well Said Autumn
Thank you for your very insightful and thought-provoking post.

Lil Mama's "Truth"
To say to a transwoman that "you were born a man" is disrespectful and false. To be born with female primary sexual characteristics--a neurobiologically female brain, for example--with male secondary sexual biological characteristics  is not to be "born a man". It is to be born trans, so to speak. To say "you are becoming a woman", is to say: I don't accept your TRUTH. It is to say: you are not a woman to me. Regardless, Lil Mama's or any non-trans woman's "feelings" on who and how to "represent the face of transgenders" are irrelevant, unprofessional, unwarranted and hurtful and reveal a kind of arrogant ignorance. However this wonderful dancer identifies, that's her business and nobody elses.  

Who would fit the definition?
Its a attack on the opposite side of the uber feminist criticism of transwomen that we are too feminine. Then you have Lil Mama, who saying your not lady like to be female.

Its a good job ciswoman don't have to conform and fit between these two views, or 70% of ciswoman would be thought of as male!!!!


Love who you are on the inside and the outside will follow.


[ Parent ]
Let's take a different tack and try tht out
A different spin on it, using language possibly intended:

"Look, Leiomy, when you were growing up, people expected you to socialize as a boy.  Your mama didn't try to teach you to be a lady, becuase she thought she was raising a son.  So you missed out on a lot of the social skills required to be a woman, and you need to catch up, and act like a lady."

I know Lil Mama actually said something else, but her possibly outdated world-view of transition gave her different words.


[ Parent ]
"If a judge on the show doesn't understand how the term transgender is an adjective and not a noun..."
Apparently, Leiomy didn't get that memo either, because that's the way she talks about herself:

0:36 min. - "You know, I'm the face of transgender."

Sounds like she's due a visit from the grammar police.


Employment Discrimination Issue - Hostile Work Environment
I'm going to take a different point of view on this, Autumn.

Did you consider that Leiomy is an employee of the production company that makes America's Best Dance Crew?

She's being paid to perform on the show.

The producers must adhere to the same standards as any other employer. I don't know where this show is taped (probably Burbank, California). State laws vary greatly regarding protections afforded to transgender people.

It is time that transgender advocates start dealing with these TV programs as businesses and the transgender people who appear on them as employees.

Leiomy has been singled out by Lil Mama, who is another employee of the Warner Horizon Television, and subjected to harassment. This creates a hostile work environment based on her status as a transgender person. If she is working in California, she should sue Warner Horizon Television.

All of these TV programs that harass and ridicule transgender people should be treated as any other employer. Even a late night comic like Conan O'Brian could be subjecting a transgender employee of NBC to discrimination due to his he/she jokes. Doing these jokes has to create a hostile work environment.

Think about it.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.


Boys and Girls and Autumn too ....
Welcome to the real world of show biz, TV ratings, et al.

There's something, at least in my house called a remote, if you don't like it don't watch it.

I think a lot of folks, through out the LGBT world need to grow some thick skins.

Sometimes, honestly, you can't look at a person cross-eyed regardless of who or what they are without sounding off alarm bells.

Frankly I didn't have a problem with what the gal said, I don't watch any of these silly "reality" shows, there's too much news going on in the world, and have no idea who any of these folks are.

But if what she said improves and brings together a better group of performers, then, as Barry White use to say, Right On Babe.




Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. - Edward R Murrow




[ Parent ]
"...need to grow some thick skins."
Frankly, I'm sick of hearing that line. It is what we hear from our enemies and those who have never suffered discrimination.

No. We don't need "thick skins" -- and we're not children either.

What we need is to be treated fairly and equally under the law.

Welcome to the real world of show biz...

That's the point. It is a business and should be required to adhere to the same laws as any other business.

Leiomy, your behavior. Come on. It's unacceptable. I just feel that you always have to remember your truth. You were born a man...

If a coworker said that to a transgender person in any other business in California, it would be considered discriminatory and contributing to a hostile work environment.

Leiomy has the right to work on that program and be given the same respect as the other employees

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.


[ Parent ]
THe problem is that it *won't* do that
That is, it won't bring them together or proffer improvement.

Because, in the end, it isn't about the alarm bells or even about choice in programming.

That you didn't have a problem with it was that they didn't note anything of particular offense to you, personally, and your personal ignorance on the matters to which they did speak.

In many ways, that you were unaware of the sexist undertones and the oblique misgendering of the statement indicates that you have a perceptual view point that's fairly in line with what she was saying, and the point of this article was to point out that that particular viewpoint is insensitive to the group of people about whom such comments are made.

One can have a "thick skin", to use your metaphor, but such doesn't excuse you in a sphere of influence that includes such people from being somewhat sympathetic to their issues and giving them the respect deserved.


http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
And I'm supposed to get all worked up over this...
Sorry, got bigger fish to fry.

[ Parent ]
"And I'm supposed to get all worked up over this..."
No. The point off the article is to raise awareness.

This is such a typical response here on PHB and on other progressive blogs.

No one is saying that you should "get all worked up" -- Autumn's article makes that clear. It is reasonable and tempered.

There's nothing alarmist about her article. There is nothing that would make a reasonable person assume that the article was intended to do anything other than prompt an honest debate.

If this doesn't concern you or spark a genuine interest, nothing is forcing you to comment. There's no need to insult the person who wrote it.

It seems that every time someone brings up an issue like this, someone says "I gots me bigger fish to fry."

Fine, go fry your bigger fish. Better yet, why don't you try writing about something that concerns you. I notice that you're new here. You've never written a dairy. You've only made four comments.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.


[ Parent ]
Uh Dyna ....
Welcome to The Blend.

You need to have a thick skin sometimes if you make a comment here in Beansville.

I like fried catfish myself with lots of Tabasco sauce.

Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. - Edward R Murrow




[ Parent ]
Well, if you actually care about T inclusiveness, then um
no.

But you should be taking the time to learn and understand.  Doing so will actually aid you in your endeavors.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
I have a thick skin, but...

Bayard RustinThe following quote from Bayard Rustin is part of my personal mission statement:

"[T]he job of the gay community is not to deal with extremists who would castigate us or put us on an island and drop an H-bomb on us. The fact of the matter is that there is a small percentage of people in America who understand the true nature of the homosexual community. There is another small percentage who will never understand us. Our job is not to get those people who dislike us to love us. Nor was our aim in the civil rights movement to get prejudiced white people to love us. Our aim was to try to create the kind of America, legislatively, morally, and psychologically, such that even though some whites continued to hate us, they could not openly manifest that hate. That's our job today: to control the extent to which people can publicly manifest antigay sentiment."
--Bayard Rustin; From Montgomery to Stonewall (1986)

In other words, for those of us who define ourselves as LGBT people and/or civil rights activists, our job in large part not to change the minds of people such as James Dobson (Focus On The Family), Donald E. Wildmon (American Family Association) or even Peter LaBarbera (Americans For Truth About Homosexuality) regarding LGBT people. It is instead to make sure that those who express anti-LGBT sentiments in public feel a sorrow-for-getting-caught expressing their homophobic and/or transphobic feelings, or an unwanted price for expressing those feelings.

At least, that's how Bayard Rustin seemed to me to be describing "our job."

I tend to think of this story on America's Best Dance Crew Because my concerns about expressing antitrans sentiment. Well, let me rephrase that...I don't believe Lil Mama's internal sentiment was antitransgender, her language seemed to be at the very least expressive of transgender demeaning language, and that too is language I want to see "controlled."

For me, when the language media uses doesn't express the human respect for trans people that I feel trans people very richly deserve, I want to see change in the language used by that media.

And I know, dyna (see her comment below), this isn't everyone's mission -- but there are a lot of fish to fry, so we can pick different fish to fry so that more of the fish get fried.

And please consider this, dyna: To me, you come off as condescending to those of us who do consider this story a priority because it's based on a different set of priorities than yours. When it comes to your priorities, how will you be able to say to others that we should consider your priorities important if you poo-poo our priorities? The difficulty in poo-pooing of other people's priorities is that one builds alliances that accomplish legislative and other community related goals by caring about more than just one's own priority issues. Work on anothers issues, and that other will likely work on yours. You poo-poo theirs, and...?

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
The funny part is...
what you probably don't realize is that the people who post and write on this website already have thick skins because they constantly educate and explain the trans (and other human conditions) to everyone.  And take abuse from being high profile.  And this is on top of being trans in the real world.  So please leave your judgment at the door and show some respect.

I am so glad Autumn wrote this article.  I watch this show religiously and I was so heartbroken for Leiomy.  I want her to succeed so much and to hear Lil Mama talk to her in such a condescending tone was painful to watch.  

Wouldn't it have been great to hear instead: "I'm sorry you have so much pressure on your shoulders that you thought of quitting when you clearly have so much talent and you normally work so hard.  I also noticed that you came back and put on a great performance despite your problems, so kudos.  If you need someone to talk to, we're here to help and support you so that you can do your very best and prove to the world that transgender people are just like everyone else." /dreamworld


[ Parent ]
Pardon me for disrespecting the...
Professional trannies present. Sorry, but I got to run off to the neighborhood housing committee meeting.

Please note that "trannies" is in the GLAAD Media Guide as a potentially defamatory term...

...against transgender people. In the manner that you used the term in this comment, and as apperently one of the "professional trannies" that you are directing the term to, your use of the term is in violation of our TOS, Section A, Rule 8. Specifically, use of a defamatory term.




-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
One hell of a way to treat a sister!
I transistioned in 1972. You know the trans inclusive language in the Minnesota Human Rights Act and every other anti discrimination law that's patterned after it? I helped write it... In 1975!

Sorry, but I and others in this big old trans/intersex/queer community have been calling each other "trannies" for decades. And we're not going to give it up because you decided it's politicly incorrect!


[ Parent ]
True enough
But you will give it up here, since, after all, it is private property of another person and that is part of the ground rules.

Not that I pay much attention to ground rules, of course, but eh...

Oh, and if I happen to be one of them, please change my designation to volunteer tranny.

This doesn't pay enough to be a professional gig.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
You pay attention...now. :P

We all are.

Dys, when we come off as nothing but "Angry T's," no one listens to us, and we're dismissed out of hand.

I think that was one of my biggist lesssons learned I pulled out of the "cis-" incident here at The Blend. I usually don't come across as angry or unreasonable (because I'm actually not angry or unreasonable), but when I do come across as frustrated and angry, I both make mistakes and become easily dismissed.

Just like African-Americans in the public square have to think about the consequences of being percieved as "angry black men" and "angry black women," T-folk in the public need to think about the consequences of being perceived as "angry T's." It's not that we can't be angry, or can't be seen as angry, we just need to be aware of the consequences of being perceived as angry.

I personally work not to be percieved as an "angry T" voice, but that's for me about me, not me about community. I want LGB people, as well as other progressives, not to dismiss me as just one more angry voice becuase T's need people who are listened to.

T-folk do need some angry people too, though. :) I just think we've got plenty of those already. :P

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau


[ Parent ]
Nah, it would be falsehood on my part
I break rules when it serves a purpose I may have.  My purpose is rarely malicious (and when it is so, its always directly and admittedly so), but truly, I don't pay much attention to rules.

On one level, it can be said that the only rules I follow are my own, and that, for the most part, my rules coincide with the rules of society.  That's not a joke or something offhand -- that's a literal represnetation of a particular personal problem I have, lol. You might recognize this is you consider the idea of co-morbidity, lol.

I am angry.  It would be inappropriate of me to not be angry. I am more often passionate, and I am extraordinarily stubborn, and if you sit down and read what I write not as an angry thing but as a passionate commentary on what is said or revealed, suddenly things change.

I use that anger in specific and targeted ways, though -- it allows me to shock people out of the dogma and the rational malaise that all too often grips an oppressed people and makes them accept much of their lot.

I use it when nominal allies act in ways which are oppositional, because sometimes they don't want to break through that little bit of a barrier, and other times you need to bring that barrier up to the light so they can see it later when things calm down.

And, interestingly enough, they do see it later, most of the time.

I will say that the anger bit is most effective when one goes from "angry" with person A to "fun and frolic" with person be and "blah" with person c.  It sharpens the contrast a little...

So yes, I am an angry tranny.  I'm also a happy one, a silly one, a thoughtful one, an overeducated one, a broke one, a fun one, and all the rest.

And over time, I generally prove that limiting me to just the angry part in one's head isn't my problem.

But theirs.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
You Go ....
um, er, girl I guess.

I'm so confused.

Think I'll stick to bi topics.

Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. - Edward R Murrow




[ Parent ]
hey, this is why...
I generally don't comment too much on the strictly gay stuff.  I know I'll put my foot in my mouth.

(comes with the whole heterosexual privilege thing, ya see...)

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...


[ Parent ]
buh-bye
You won't have to give it up...you just won't be using it here.



[ Parent ]
maybe there are no "trannys" at the housing meeting...
or who live in neighborhoods, who knew?
last time i checked (we) were people of color, too.
especially the stats on those getting killed.
also, "boys and girls and others" may be ok. "boys and girls and autumn", is not.
and you KNOW it.
this is a GLBT website.
so learn it.


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