Salt Lake City Man Calls Judy Shepard a Liar to her Face

How utterly disgusting

What kind of douchebag would put this woman through this again? Seriously, what would he say to Ms. Zapata's parents? That they are lying too? Most Likely.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." ~~~ Thomas Jefferson

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by: SD_Dave @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 01:33:19 AM CDT

disgusting yes but . . .

SD_Dave -

It is disgusting - what I saw last night was just the less sophisticated version of what Virginia Foxx said in Congress not so long ago.

I think it's easier for some people to believe that bigotry and prejudice don't exist because if they do exist, we have to do something and doing something about them scares the bejesus out of some people.  It's easier to believe that Matthew Shepard was killed in drug deal gone bad or a simple robbery than to admit he was attacked because of his sexual orientation.

One of the questions that was asked last was "What advice did you give Matthew that you would give to us?"  Judy paused and said, "Be safe.  Be aware of your surroundings."  My mother promptly burst into tears.

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by: glendenb @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 09:45:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Mormon leadership has advocated violence against gays

Russel Henderson, one of Matt Shepard's attackers, is a mormon. If Judy Shepard didn't point that out to a crowd in Salt Lake, she should have.

Mormon leadership has advocated violence against gays in the past, they continue to bash us at the ballot box, and their goon squads single us out for harassment.

I'm not surprised someone in SLC would say such a horrible thing to Judy Shepard.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 22:24:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The Mormons have used violence in their cause throughout their troubled history

which is probably why they fit in so comfortably with the Roman Catholic heirarchy, the same fun loving crowd of rambunctious boys that brought us the Inquisition, supported Pinochet, canonised Franco's chaplain, canonised convicted war criminal Cardinal Stepanic, launched the Crusades and declared that anti-gay violence was understandable in view of our demands for human rights.

By comparasion, the Mormons only committed violence against settlers travelling through Utah, the inhabitants of Beaver Island, Michigan, the Irish settlers who were in Utah before the Mormons arrived, massacred certain Native American tribes who did not yeild to Brigham Young's every demand, and have sent Black people into slavery in the afterlife.

Both groups favour the overturn of Lawrence and recriminalisation of same-sex relationships

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 22:40:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The Mormons even blamed their own massacre of American settlers

on the American Indians in the area at the time.  They are reprehensible liars at heart, and mysogonistic racists in word and deed.  These people have proven themselves to be a threat to our society on the whole and their bleatings should hold no value to America.

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government.-- Thomas Jefferson

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by: Mykelb @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 10:28:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

There WERE Indians involved in the Mountain Meadows massacre,

mostly Paiutes.  But they were involved because Mormon "missionaries" had whipped them into a frenzy with deliberate lies, saying that the settlers had come to massacre the Indians and steal all their property.  The Paiutes, under the direction of a Mormon "elder" named John Lee, actually began the killing at Mountain Meadows.  But they did it only half-heartedly, shocked at their own actions.  Once they backed off (the massacre went on for days), Mormon militias, under the leadership of several Mormon bishops, finished the job, slaughtering men, women and children.  Many of the settlers' children had their throats slit by Mormons or had their brains dashed out with clubs.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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by: QScribe @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 10:41:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Do Mormon Bishops still get militia training?

Just curious.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 15:16:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Good Advice

"Be safe.  Be aware of your surroundings."

That's some of the best advice anyone could give a gay person.  Just because you're in the gayborhood doesn't mean you're safe, and it's always good to have at least 1 sober (even better, armed) person in your group while out clubbing and bar hopping through alleys.  

And if your friend is fucked-up and decides to go home with some stranger, I'd get their cell phone number and call it right then and there.  Jeffrey Dahmer fooled the friends of at least 2 of his victims by giving them a phony address.

There's nothing wrong with being vigilant! LOL

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by: bluegrassfool @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 22:41:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I recommend every LGBT take self defense courses

a lesbian who taught karate to women who were rape victims, taught me and a male friend.
It may have saved me from being bashed with 4 inch diameter clubs and 3 assailants.
She taught me not only defense, but tactics like having your back to something so you can't be surrounded and hit from behind you. luckily as I ran from these three, I picked up a glass bottle and cracked off the bottom, so one of those bashers would have got cut badly before they knocked me down.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 23:47:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Self defense course is an excellent idea!

I had to take a three week module as part of training for a job I once held (law enforcement, believe it or not).  It instills confidence and a sense of self-empowerment.  This can be very liberating.

Of course, the best thing to do is to not put yourself in a situation where you can be harmed.  Usually, it's pretty simple to avoid these situations.  But, knowing that by grabbing someone's forearm and applying appropriate pressure, I can break their nose in the takedown is reassuring.  

On the other hand, if there's a gun involved, run like hell!

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by: Phil @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 00:56:36 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Welcome to Neo-America

He claimed to be relying on a report from 20/20; she pointed out that the 20/20 actually ignored the evidence and testimony of both men.  She did not deny the men had a history of drug abuse.  She pointed out the facts; the man refused to accept them.

This is an example of the success of the right-wing's meta-meme: Facts don't matter.  

Essentially, they've one-upped Goebbels' philosophy of repeating a lie until its accepted as the truth. While they certainly do repeat lies in hopes that they'll stick, they also are absolutely impervious to facts, no matter how concretely they are demonstrated to be facts.

And it is the fact-free fringe that is driving political discourse in our nation today.

>^..^<

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by: KatRose @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 09:48:08 AM CDT

Kat

It's been that way since Reagan... remember the Meese Commission which concluded that porn was evil even before the panel was loaded with "experts" like Dobson and his ilk?

The neocons have learned from the best propagandists the world had ever seen -- the Nazis -- and raised it to a science. What The Eternal Jew is to that faith, the hate group TVC's Gay Rights, Special Rights, and it's sequel Gay Rights, Marriage Rights is to us.

That's the reason I call groups like TVC, FotF, ad nauseum the "religious reicht" or just plain "reicht".

Listen to "TransTalk" every Monday from 4-5pm ET on http://www.falconradio.org beginning January 11th!

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by: Marlene @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 06:47:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Just a Joe Wilson wannabe

Get ready to hear "You Lie" as much as we all heard "Where's the Beef" in the '80s.

Americans are not very bright, and are easily led thru catchy slogans and short one syllable phrases.

Question:  What does an atheist do when they fall to the floor and start "speaking in tongues"?

Answer: Get a CAT scan.

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by: Snooky Ookums @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 18:08:43 PM CDT

I boycotted 20/20 after those filthy lies and revisionist history

That hag Varga, I detest

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 22:30:50 PM CDT

Me too

Not to mention creepy John Stossel. I hear he's joining Fox News where he belongs.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 23:35:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Brain bleach

Stossel claims to be a Libertarian, but over the years, he like Dennis Miller before him, has slid down into the gutter that's neo-conservatism. His feature "Give Me a Break" is just a wretched piece of drek.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Listen to "TransTalk" every Monday from 4-5pm ET on http://www.falconradio.org beginning January 11th!

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by: Marlene @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 06:54:48 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Can the Right Wing Tell the Truth About Anything

I work in a big box store.  They feature all the lying right wing scumbags books from Beck to Malkin with trick boy Morris thrown in for good measure.

I don't understand how these people can believe this garbage.  Especially when we all work in part time hell with an uncertain number of hours, no health insurance and a constant dunning to work harder for the same money.  Production quotas.

These people are stupid enough to go and give a tithe to some scumbag preacher who fills their minds with homophobia and they listen to nothing but these ultra right wing liars telling them how Obama is a socialist.

I'm an anarcha-feminist and I have to put up with this but I can plug in to some Tom Morello or Utah Phillips when my shift is over.  

Their lives revolve around hate, homophobia, racism and fear.

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by: SuzyQ @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 23:43:01 PM CDT

Why is it we don't have a person like Ann Coulter on our Team?

Are we too educated, too proud to go out and beat them at their own lying games?  We need to get a vociferous, acid tounged glb or t to go out and blast these folks on the same level as they give it to us on the same playing field (Sunday Morning talk shows, "infotainment" such as Faux News, and destroy their lies.  I am personall tired of taking the high road and am going to play to the lowest common denominator from here out.  Seems that is the only way to get people to see our side.  If 50% of the population has an IQ below 100, we need to simplify our message greatly.

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government.-- Thomas Jefferson

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by: Mykelb @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 10:34:44 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The problem is

that the media are in bed with these jerks.  An LGBT spokesperson resorting to these tactics would be shut down very quickly and never reach a mass audience.  The establishment is masterful at marginalizing ANY minority.  Remember how quickly the allegations that Lincoln was gay got sidelined, despite very strong evidence?  Even reasoned discourse gets shitcanned in this country if it goes against the tribal myths.  How much more quickly would a pro-gay Ann Coulter be relegated to the shadows?

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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by: QScribe @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 10:54:06 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's the time it takes to fact-check.

It can take less than a second to spew something false, but it can take minutes to show how much of a lie it is.  Part of why so many of the people whose whole schtick depends on lying (creationists, climate-change-deniers and science-deniers of all stripes, homophobes, etc.) all love the "public debate" format -- they can phrase their lies as strong affirmative statements and throw so many that the other side can never keep up.  Telling the truth is just something that the talk-tv format is designed to thwart.

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by: M @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 19:11:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

We use the ARTS .....not Hannity's and Beck's shows

I would find the queer version of Coulter an anathema, and wouldn't appreciate his/her speeches.
I'd rather we savage them in stand up routines, poetry, lyrics, grafitti art, literature, films, plays.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 20:19:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What the man said was "A Truth"

What he said served a higher conservative Truth.  Just like the conservatives saw that Bill Clinton was a dishonorable Scumbag, and nothing he had ever said or did nor would say or do could ever be acknowledged  to be worthy of praise or respect.

This man defended the larger conservative Truth that All Homosexuals Are Bad.

We cannot rub these folks' noses in the facts and shame them into stopping.  We can only convince the squishy middle to actively condemn and marginalize them.

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by: Hazumu @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 05:44:56 AM CDT

All the same

It's not just a lack of civility; the man asking the questions was posing as a daring advocate of truth who was trying to set the record straight.  He asserted that Judy Shepard is and has deliberately distorting what happened to her son in service of a political agenda.  It's a typical right wing pose these days - repeat lies with passion as if you are somehow the only person who knows the truth.

Asserting what passes as truth at the top of one's lungs goes hand in hand with that other right-wing tactic of accusing your accuser of doing exactly what you're doing.  We've been seeing that one since the run up to the election.  You know what I'm talking about -- racists asserting that others are the racists...not them.  We've been seeing this exact same thing in all the marriage equality states where wingers have been asserting that gays are the ones discriminating against non-gays...not the other way around...and that non-gays are so fearful of teh gayz that they have to keep their whereabouts secret.

What's that old saying?  The first casualty of war is truth.

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by: BobbiCW @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 07:50:54 AM CDT

Thanks for Posting This

Pam and Glen, thanks for posting this story.  I wouldn't have known anything about it from other sources.  I just checked various news sites, including Utah ones, for the story, and find they haven't picked up on it.

Thanks for keeping us informed.  I'm disappointed that the crowd would let a heckler like this badger Judy Shepard.  

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by: wdlindsy @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 08:21:16 AM CDT

greeting this monday morning

I appreciate everyone's comments.

I'm working from memory here (I should always take the laptop to things like this!) so I may not get th exact words right . . .

The audience was very polite - they let the guy ask his question, and Judy answered; when he then shouted out what amounted to the same question and said again she was lying, the crowd let it's displeasure be known (one person even said, "Just take the next question."). Judy said, "We're not making any progress here I'll take the next question . . "

The issue of Mormonism and its relationship to gay bashing did come up; recently the Mormon church's ex-gay group held their conference and at that a Mormon leader announced that sexual orientation is "not genetic" and can be changed.  

The final question of the night touched on the issue of Mormonism when a man in his 20s asked "I've come out to my family and they're not okay with it and they're very conservative and religious and they basically ignore who I am and what I've todl them about myself.  What do I do?"  Judy's answer was: Stay true to yourself, you have power in you.  And trust me, some day you're parents will wake up and realize they'd rather know the real you than risk losing you.

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by: glendenb @ Mon Sep 28, 2009 at 09:07:37 AM CDT

I think I know WHO THAT MAN IS

Now I could be wrong, but check out the below, its in the myspace republican group.

http://forum.myspace.com/index...

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by: WTFBlog @ Thu Oct 08, 2009 at 16:50:20 PM CDT