Signer of Manhattan Declaration wanted to jail gays and lesbians

Singular?

Signer of Manhattan Declaration wanted to jail gays and lesbians

This one guy may have a visible paper trail, but every one of the signatories should be pinned down - under oath - and asked whether they have the same goals.

I'm tired of seeing these christianists claim that 'gays already have their rights and I'm fine with that, I just don't want them to have special rights.'  Do they really believe that?  

Where they really okay with the doing-away with sodomy laws?  I sure don't recall seeing any of the anti-marriage oids working for the repeal of those laws.

Were they really in opposition to Jesse Helms when he wanted to quarrantine all gays?  He didn't succeed, of course, but he wasn't a singular voice in the wilderness either.

These people are placing their 'beliefs' in play.  They should be forced to put up or shut up as to what those beliefs actually are.

>^..^<

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by: KatRose @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 08:12:16 AM CST

So true

And that is the very point, Kat. They are going to be made to put up or shut up about those beliefs only if we make them. We need to point out their dubious allegiances and ask the crucial questions. And above all, don't let them get away with it.

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by: Alvin McEwen @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 08:21:09 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Akinola incited the murder of 700 Islamic people

but the pressure of the Anglican church is such that even an indictment seems unlikely; and Nigerial will never hand him over. He is Rick Warren's BFF; Warren authored an apologia about the good bishop.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 15:45:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

How can they have Primates and not believe in evolution?

Remember what FDR said, "I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it." Have you written/called a congress-critter today? 8.25, 6.21

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by: Jacques @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 09:22:47 AM CST

Especially in Africa... where they just evaluated ARDIPITHECUS.

Almost the entire October SCIENCE magazine is an evaluation of our oldest true link to our origin primate. Ardipithecus.. 4.4 million years old. (Dated by measurement of all the soils, seeds etc around the almost complete and 120 other partial skeletons they found... in 1994. In Ethiopia rich rift valley.

This link shows that we developed from a large primate, the chimps and gorillas etc branched off about 6 million years ago and have specialized in their own way.

This primates most distinguishing characteristic is that the canines of males are small! Thus there was strong selection of males without aggressive/hostile traits (as developed in the chimps/gorillas etc.)  Also they have good hips for walking, feet that still grip branches, hands much more like ours.. e.g. carried food, used pretools. Along with a hidden oestrus (as we have) it all comes down according to the majore author to having begun increased paternal investment in the family unit. The brain, then developed after that.

Not his apparently. 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 10:45:26 AM CST

[ Parent ]

different rules

how is this claim by the Christian right any different than the claim by the Taliban and al Qaeda that they only recognize laws that agree with Sharia?

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by: joe in oklahoma @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 09:33:22 AM CST

Because they're terrorists!!!! /sarcasm

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by: night owl @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 10:55:12 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm not sure the sarcasm is needed.

If the definition of terrorism is "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes." I think the actions of many, probably most, of the signatories of the Manhattan Declaration towards LGBT people count as terrorism. It is definitely true of Archbishop Akinola (who I personally would consider to be the antichrist were it not for Scott Lively; of course there's no reason why there shouldn't be more than one antichrist).

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.

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by: tavdy79 @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 19:34:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Realism

I think that the majority of anti-gay activists would support making homosexuality a criminal offense.  Therefore, Rev. Akinola's sentiment is not out of touch with the rest of the signers of the declaration.  He just fails to master the delicate art of political correctness.

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by: zazu @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 13:32:55 PM CST

Akinola is in power in Nigeria, PC'ness is unnecessary

He can do or demand as he wishes. For some time, I've wished that the LGBT press and the Episcopalian press would tie the breakaway churches to the man whose moral vision they profess to follow, particularly when it entails jailing LGBT's for simply being at the same location, and murdering Muslims by the busload.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 at 13:53:39 PM CST

[ Parent ]

>:/ grrrr

One thing I hate is forgein nationals wanting to stick thier noses in to my rights. Espically when its forgein nationals that are from countries that have abysmal human rights records!
The rest of the signatories? Yah, too much like the taliban and al queda. They want us to live by thier made up rules and for us to for go our god given rights.
I see more retoric and quite vocal retoric and quite possibly complete nut jobs acting out by resorting to violence as with the anti-abortionists.  

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by: Gina9223 @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 14:02:22 PM CST

Many American Churches Are Led By Akinola

A number of the breakaway Episcopalians are under his guidance.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 15:48:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Let me see if I got this straight...

When the oppressed fights for their rights against the oppressor, then the oppressor is claiming that they are being persecuted by the oppressed?

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by: Diana CT @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 14:51:40 PM CST

Seems odd until you think of it like this

Think of it like an abusive relationship. The abuser always rants about what the abused did to make them hit them. They work the same way.

"It's not our fault officer, the homosexuals make us take away their rights. The way they try to redefine marriage just makes us so mad, surely you would have done the same."

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by: Cerberus @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 15:19:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

TAKE their G*D DAMN tax exemptions

See what fight is left in the SOBs then.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 15:51:29 PM CST

The Negative Christian Voices

The negative Christian voices on the subjects of LGBT people, women, abortion and contraception are not the only one's that speak.  They may talk loud, but they are not the only voices.  There are positive voices in Christianity that are talking a very different language. Just yesterday a writer in The Episcopal Cafe had this to say about the Manhattan Delcaration.

"But for the signers, religious freedom does not extend to those who would bless same-sex unions out of religious conviction, or who of theological reflection understand that birth control is a matter of conscience and those who would pastor rather than condemn women who have had abortions.

The freedom to opt-out is not enough because conscience clauses for this group flows in only one direction and so, it follows, does religious freedom. "

In another post The Executive Council that includes the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church is going to talk about taking action on the anti-gay bill in Uganda.

Just this past week we heard from Bishop John Bryson Chane and his "Christian Case for Same-Sex Marriage. There are also groups like The Chicago Consultation Group and Integrity USA.  

I have listed all these groups with their web links to show that the negative voices are not the only ones we must listen to. There are positive voices that speak and act on the understanding that justice on behalf of LGBT people is a necessity.

And just in case I leave it out, I write a blog of my own based on the religious experiences of LGBT people from the stand point of the Gospel. The blog I write on a daily basis is taken from the daily lectionary of the Episcopal Church.  In the blog I discuss issues such as Spiritual violence, pastoral abuse and civil rights for LGBT people that seeks to include LGBT people in religious discussions and our full inclusion.  The link to my own web site is Philip's Many Thoughts. Everyone is welcome anytime.  

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by: PBearBudMN @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 16:33:32 PM CST

No excuses til the other voices denounce, and publically denounce...

Christian Homophobia and the phobes call for our deaths. Being in favour of our rights is all sweetness and light and so on, but til they call evil what it is, no excuses from the Christian side

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 at 13:56:11 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Link Correction

Hi, folks, after I submitted my reply, I tried the link to my blog that I left and when I clicked on it, it did not work the way I wanted it to. So, I am going to leave it like this.

http://philipsmanythougths.blo...

Again, everyone is welcome.

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by: PBearBudMN @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 16:37:49 PM CST

Another declaration of war from the christer cults.

These irredeemable bigots have been at it for 1300 or 1400 hundred years. During the Dark Ages and until about 1850 they burned and tortured us and stole our wealth with impunity.

Since the invention of the French National Razor and its use on obstinate clerics during the French Revolution and later examples set by the Bolsheviks and the Spanish anarchists they've toned it down a bit, but now they're showing signs of wanting a rematch.

What they do to us is pretty much what they do to everyone except racists, the rich, colonial powers etc.

In spite of their beginnings as a breakaway judaic sect they've fueled anti-Semitism for centuries. In Germany the vast majority of christer clerics, with only a few heroic exceptions, lined up with the Nazis and kept quiet about their mass murder of Poles, Jews, Soviet citizens and soldiers and others.

In the colonial world they're always been the main ideological buttress of colonialism, slavery and the mass murder of peoples from Africa, Asia, the Americas and Australasia. As Desmond Tutu puts it

"When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land."

They're the backbone of misogyny, the mistreatment of children and all the christer cults infested with child rapists.

To defend ourselves we should demand that the enablers and promoters of sexual abuse like Boston cardinal Law be indicted and extradited from their Vatican hideout.  The DoJ went after Polanski based on a 31-year-old warrant. Surely they can take on Bernard Law, whose crimes are much, much worse and much more recent.  

We need to push for laws and regulations that forbid priests, imams, preachers, rabbis, mullahs or pastors access to children unless armed guards are present to protect them.  

We need to fight for laws to confiscate the wealth of the roman cult cults that promote child rape to compensate their victims. It's time to reenergize the fight to tax the cults, secularize their schools, hospitals and universities and close their seminaries.

When hate crimes occur we should point out the relationship between hate speech and hate crimes and make every effort to sue the cults for promoting violent crimes.  

The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  

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by: donal1944 @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 19:54:23 PM CST

Some signatories of the Declaration of Independence discuss the cults...

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man." Thomas Jefferson

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government." Thomas Jefferson

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? ...superstition, bigotry, and persecution."  James Madison

"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself than this thing called Christianity"   Thomas Paine

"Lighthouses are more useful than churches" Benjamin Franklin

Compare them to cult lap dogs like Obama, Bush and McCain who, if they oppose same sex marriage are in fact bigots, or to panderers like the Clintons who built their careers pandering to bigots. The Manhattan Declaration is the antithesis of the Declaration of Independence.

By the time of the Second American Revolution things were even clearer.

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma. My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."   Abraham Lincoln

"I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs... We have men sold to build churches, women sold to support the gospel, and babes sold to purchase Bibles for the poor heathen, all for the glory of God and the good of souls. The slave auctioneer's bell and the church-going bell chime in with each other,  and the bitter cries of the heart-broken slave are drowned in the relgious shouts of his pious master. Frederick Douglass, Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, An American Slave, Written by Himself

The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  

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by: donal1944 @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 20:19:25 PM CST

The only thing I can extend to him...

...is my middle finger.

He needs to mind his own d*mned business, and stay out of ours.

Hate stops a beating heart.

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by: KarenS @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 23:35:10 PM CST

We all need to wake-up

Because the threat is there, it's real, and the ultimate goal of these people IS to set our civil rights back 30 years.

America has grown increasingly tolerant of the Christian jihadists in our midsts, and with the economy tanked coupled with the "conservatives" perceived loss of political power, we should not put anything past those who would do us harm.

They know that they don't NEED a majority to do us harm, they just need enough straight people to be apathetic and quiet when it comes to our defense.


= equality isn't free =

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by: NVTodd @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 at 01:35:36 AM CST

The Manhattan Declaration of Ignorance

This is what I wrote to a friend who asked me if I had heard about the Manhattan Principles:

Patti,

Check out a much more positive website, and then, if you haven't already, sign on to "The Dallas Principles."

http://www.thedallasprinciples...

As to the "Manhattan Declaration" it comes to us from the exurban area of Georgia outside Atlanta's I-285 beltway, based on the media contacts' telephone area code.  These people wear their redneck Christianist ignorance proudly, and sadly, there are a lot of uneducated and bigoted Americans who agree with them.

First, they don't seem to understand the nature of human life or the meaning of Genesis 1:27.

They don't understand that we do not become fully human beings until God breathes ife into us, and that only happens after we are born, when we take our first breath.  They ignore all the beautiful biblical imagery that relates life to breathing.  They choose to ignore the rights of living women to champion rights for those who are human beings only in potentia.  While I agree that abortion should not be chosen without concern for the potential uman life, such a choice is a personal moral decision and can only be made by a woman and her doctor.

The so-called "conscience clauses" are used as an excuse to deny equal rights and fair treatment to all.  Gynecologists, surgeons, pharmacists and others who are unable to perform their jobs because of a choice of their conscience, should be encouraged to find a profession in which they can freely exercise their conscience without discriminating against some patients.

I do not see anything in the Manhattan Principles indicating a call to end war, or to end the death penalty, but only to attack women's reproductive rights.

On marriage, these people do not seem to understand the marriage between David and Jonathan in 1 Samuel 18, or the love between Ruth and Naomi, as being worthy of consideration.  They confuse marriage with procreation, and take love out of the equation.  

To strenghen families is to be in favor of marriage equality.  These people have no concern for children, but only for discriminating against people who are different from themselves.

Homosexuality is not immoral.  The Men of Sodom were not gay, they were misogynists who were intolerant of strangers and people who were different than them, much like the creators and signers of the Manhattan Declaration, who are the truly immoral people.  St. Paul declared that marriage, for Christians, is only for those who are too weak to be continent, and who would otherwise fall into sinful fornication. True Christians are all called to celibacy - but only those whose libidos would otherwise lead them into sin should get married.  To deny marriage to gays is to insist that all gays must be celibate to be moral.  Neither God's Law nor Man's Law should contemplate the requirement of the impossible.

These people wish to deny religious liberty to those who do not believe as they do, while having their religious liberty protected by law.

These people do not even know who God is - if they understood that God is all male and all female - and that the original Adam was in God's image, male and female, they might understand that the Name of God contained in the Tetragrammaton is actually HwHy, or in English "He-She."

Perhaps they might have greater respect for those who are differently made, those whoa re transsexual or intersex or gay, becuase we are also made in the image and likenes of God, and there is a special place and a nam for us in God's House that is better than children - and that God's House is a House of Prayer for all people, including God's LGBT children.

Perhaps the creators and signers of the Manhattan Declaration are only Christianists, who use a veneer of Christianity to mask their baser prejudices and hatred for people who are different, much as a wolfclothed in the skin of a sheep remains a wolf.

Patti, these people are the kind whose dust should be shaken from our sandals.

Yours in Peace,

Joann

BTW, I have nothing against people who might self-identify or be perceived as rednecks, only agsinst the ignorant Christianist ones.

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by: Joann Prinzivalli @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 17:06:39 PM CST