How many fundie parents passed out when Adam Lambert did this on the American Music Awards?

And?

Madonna has done the dog leash thing. Janet Jackson did the simulated oral sex thing in her video for "If" (nice performance here by Janet, by the way).

Leaving aside the fact that Lambert sounded terrible (he's a good singer, this wasn't a good performance), I have no problem with this.

Oh,...oh, Adam is a MAN. And a admitted man of the homosexual persuasion. I get it.

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 09:23:45 AM CST

OMG...

You could hear the collective pearl clutching from China.

On the flip side of this, what he did was crude and unnecessary and clearly only done for shock value.

That said, wasn't it just a few days ago that his management expressed concern about him being on the cover of Out and demanded that he appear with straight people so as not to pigeon hole him as a "gay" artist?

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 09:28:58 AM CST

[ Parent ]

His management said that, true

Adam didn't say that.

And this doesn't pigeon hole him as "a gay artist", per se, so much that it depicts a simulated gay male sex action.

Two women could get away with this. Why not two men ?(I know why, with the men comes the "ick" factor.)

And...OF COURSE it was done only for shock value. It will still be interesting, though, to see how this plays out in the media. They did linger on to the simulated oral sex here longer than they lingered on Janet's wardrobe malfunction, so unlike CBS(?) then, ABC knew this would happen.

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 09:44:38 AM CST

[ Parent ]

This week, Adam Lambert did what is supposed to be unthinkable in 2009.

He told both the self-appointed gatekeepers of all things correctly gay and all of fundie America to go to hell.

Lambert is an expert singer technically.  His vocals in this performance were a choice for this performance.  It may not have been to one's particular taste, but it wasn't an accident.

Saying that his performance was done for shock value is like saying the sun rises in the East.

As to whether or not it was "appropriate"?  It's taken us how long to have a world-famous male performer who's proudly queer -- not only on stage, but in real life?  I call that not only appropriate but long overdue.

It's called "For Your Entertainment", not "for your delicate sensibilities" or "finely-tuned sense of taste or style".  I love the fact that it was trashy in every sense of the word.  I'm glad there's high art, but I'm also glad there's this.

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by: diablorobotico @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 10:24:18 AM CST

The song sucked...

but I pretty much agree otherwise. I've seen indications on other threads that they have reason to believe that there were serious problems with the mics and other sound system. Given how well he usually does, seems likely.

On the other hand, I agree about the proudly queer performer part.

Can you imagine what we might have gotten from Freddie Mercury or even Elton John back at the early "make a name for themselves" parts of their careers if they felt as free as Lambert clearly does?

I wouldn't be surprised if he is deliberately taking a cue from the Madonna playbook - do just enough that is shocking, especially early on, to create the image, and then mix in enough class and talent (sometimes on completely different material) to keep the people who just came to gawk.

Besides, if he starts out doing a career mix of hard rock, showtunes, ballads, and alternative stuff, he positions himself to be able to constantly change to meet whatever direction he wants to go in the future.

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by: Lymis @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 10:52:48 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Hey, I never said I liked the song!

I just think he performed it exactly the way he intended to.  And I do appreciate his spot-on '70s sensibility, which is all the more fascinating since he wasn't alive then.  I thought it was solid old school lyrics with a catchy-enough melody.  But with a performance like that, I wasn't really paying attention to the song.

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by: diablorobotico @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:16:06 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I have to agree....

As a number one fan of Joshua and Jacob Miller who 'Came Out' both to us and their Jehovah's Witness family on LOGO TV series... they, of course, got creamed by their Nashville Record company (who loved the $$ they got for the show) but then did not put out a hard copy of their first CD...and have not let them record since.

But time moves on... Wonder if we will ever see any of the KNOWN to be closeted older gay singers come out? 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 10:54:37 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Being proudly...

queer and being LCD trashy are 2 different things and should not be confused.

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 13:24:47 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't know what "LCD" trashy is, so no chance I'll do that, then.

We can't spend forty years talking about how we owe everything to drag queens who fought back at Stonewall and then say Adam Lambert is a disgrace.  

Some people knock at the door, some people knock the door down.  Some people have mirrored doors that swing both ways and have half-naked people hanging off of them.  That last group are the proud queers who represent me.

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by: diablorobotico @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 14:43:26 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Double standard, thy name is parenthood

Several news outlets have covered this "shocking, grotesque" performance, the typical outraged squeals of, "But think of the CHYLDRUN!"

I'm proud of my fellow Americans that the response has been:

1) What the hell kind of lousy parent are you, with your child up and watching TV at 11 pm?

2) Your kid watches violence on TV all day long; where's your outrage about that?

Miley Cyrus did a pole dance at the televised Teen Choice Awards while wearing an outfit that was a cross between East end street walker and NASCAR groupie, complete with hooker boots, while her female backup dancers were hip-thrusting wearing halter tops and spanky shorts. Disney hasn't pulled the plug on her since that piece of trash.

People in this country have got to stop acting like sex is this horrible, shameful, dirty thing. Attitudes like this are why we have Baptist preachers accidentally asphyxiating themselves at home, behind locked doors, while wearing two wetsuits.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 10:49:46 AM CST

Right on, Keori....

And SO WHAT? Someone simulates oral sex. On TV. We have horrific violence on TV all day (and night)long and nobody bitches about that. If they hate this, they'd have apoplexy over what's shown on TV in Europe. Which is the future of TV in the States if Showtime and HBO are any indication.  

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by: Mindyinlongbeach @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 10:58:08 AM CST

[ Parent ]

What the hell was so shocking, anyway?

Other than the fact that the performance wasn't up to his usual standard. Lambert's act featured a pretty even cross of male and female backup dancers and singers. One kiss and a few seconds of head thrust, and parents everywhere are clutching their pearls and screaming until they turn blue.

Madonna masturbated on stage in 1990, FFS. And how many music videos have featured "artists" grinding on a pair of faceless T&A?

Oh wait. They were all nominally straight. My bad, sorry.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 11:06:38 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Good to know those TV ratings work, too

First, no parent with a shockable child should have them watching the show in the first place, even if it was on a 2 in the afternoon.

Second they ran the TV rating of TV-14 at the beginning and every commercial break, didn't they?

Third, the is so like the Nipplegate scandal. If it weren't for DVR's and YouTube, how many people would have noticed this, even those WATCHING the show? Why do I suspect that the sort of people who are shocked! SHOCKED! at this were either not watching the show at all, or were off getting a sandwich during his song?

If you have to rewind or download the clip in order to be shocked! SHOCKED! and then actually choose to do so, then you need to rethink some aspects of your life very urgently.

For me the big test of the reaction to this is the next round of Adam Lambert coverage for whatever. Will it be "Adam Lambert released...." or "Openly gay singer Adam Lambert released..." or even plain ol' "Former American Idol runner-up Adam Lambert released..."

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by: Lymis @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 11:00:43 AM CST

[ Parent ]

He sold a cruudy song, and got lots of lots of press from folks who don't buy his CDs

I'd call that pretty savvy.
The more the family Values folks screech, the bigger lambert's career will soar. He will be the gay BAD BOY.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 11:12:35 AM CST

The quality of the lyrics and choreography are irrelevant.

It's uplifting to see men doing men and men kissing men.  

I'm all for rubbing it in their christer faces.

Go, Adam!

The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  

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by: donal1944 @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 11:52:17 AM CST

it was all

edited out of the west coast feed. . .and who's kids are up at 10:50pm on a school night to watch this drivel?

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by: ggw59 @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:10:35 PM CST

Prejean can just ....

We'll just label this interpretive dance.

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by: Passionforprog @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:48:37 PM CST

What counts!

Never mind that the song is terrible and the performance sucked.... Adam did shocking gay stuff!!! OMG! YEA!!! Cue the gay cheerleaders to say how brave and edgy he was, and how anyone that didn't love it is old or homophobic.

Whatever.   I liked Adam on Idol.  Now it is pretty obvious he is choosing style over substance, shock over talent. Presenting the male, gay Britney...

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by: rf7777 @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:59:05 PM CST

It was inappropriate...

for network TV. Had this been on HBO or just on cable, it would not have been that big a deal.

However, it was not appropriate for the simulated oral sex on broadcast TV.

I would not be surprised if ABC got a fine from the FCC over that stunt.

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 13:22:57 PM CST

You've never seen simulated sex acts on network tv shows?

I have.  I couldn't count the number of hetero couples I've seen thrusting and slipping beneath the sheets on everything from soap operas to prime time.

You are right, however, that it was a stunt.  And an excellent one at that, which did exactly what it was supposed to do.  As evidenced by this very thread.

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by: diablorobotico @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 14:46:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I LOVE the song

And I'm not one to buy much popular music. Now that that's out of the way, I didn't watch it live but watched on YouTube and thought the whole things was much to do about nothing.  How many women have done lap dances on TV to me, now what are THEY simulating?

This guy is really good AND he had his act together.  He has said that he is not a politician so why are people so ready for him to take the mantel of gay role model.  He's an entertainer, let him entertain.  The guy from Out is only saying stuff on the record because he needs Adam.  His mag only goes after the twinking crowd (and they have also ruined The Advocate which used to be a good magazine but now only focuses on celebrities and anyone under 24) But I digress.

For a first appearance I think it was brillant.  Now every appearance he makes people will be wondering what he is going to do.  This guy is smart.

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by: BB @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 13:53:10 PM CST

He's a gay role model...

whether he likes it or not. That's the simple reality of life as part of a minority group. You are represented in the puiblic consciousness by the extremes. The moment he came out, he became one more symbol of "gay men" in America to that part of the country that is neither.

Its unfair, but it is reality.

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 14:51:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

But he does not have to embrace that, Geek

If you embrace that role for yourself, that's fine. It's unfair to put some sort of pressure to socially conform to some standard of "gayness" that probably only exists in your head onto Adam. Obviously, he's actively resisting it (as I do).

Mus be the bougie in ya talking.

And he could spend his entire life trying to please everyone and please noone. Here I am America, whether you like me or not!

I like that message.

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 14:55:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Please...

lets be realistic here. He does not have to do anything. But the point is that regardless of what he thinks he is a gay role model. Just as many minority athletes end up representing their ethnicity to the public despite their reluctance to hold the responsibility.

That is the simple reality of the world in which we live. I'm not personally bothered by his behaviour since ethnicity means that he can never represent me. He's just reinforcong the stereotypes that America already has about the way gay men look and act. Besides, he's NOT resisting some standard of gayness, he's wallowing in in. He's conforming to the standard that America already believe that gay men, no matter how much they protest, secretly adhere to.  

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 15:09:16 PM CST

[ Parent ]

And let him wallow in it

if that's what you choose to call.

Charles Barkley has always resisted this (since you bring up the subject) and to me, he was a role model in that regard.

So, either Barkley or Lambert represent me in that regard (not that I'm exactly a person that reinforces stereotypes). In fact, most people aren't quite sure what box to put me in. And that's they way I actually like it.

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 15:15:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I mean. in that sense

Barkley would fit the stereotype of the irresponsible black man, right?

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 15:16:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

YES

he does. That is exactly my point. Barkley is used as an example of an irresponsible black man despite the fact that he does not want to be a role model for anyone. The fact remains that he becomes symbolic of the behaviour of black men in the public consciousness.

It then falls on each of us to prove that we are NOT like him.

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 15:20:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

No, I get your point

and I suppose that, at times, I fit the stereotypical angry black man or oreo cookie, or that finger snapping shade throwing drama queen. At any given moment, I can be either of the 3, or all 3 at the same time.

Then again, I've had gay men (of all races) that get an attitude at me when I get my football jones as I am apt to do at this time of year. Or, I'm black, I'm not supposed to enjoy the opera. Or whatever.

Look, my philosophy is (and it's hard to actualize in this society, I tell you) racism and homophobia are society's problem. Not mine.

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 15:26:54 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Wow, you just don't know

of all the "ideas" things that you have ever posted, this is the one that's the most personally offensive to me. For a lot of reasons.

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 14:59:48 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Why?

What did I say that was "personally offensive?"

I merely made a statement of fact. You may not like it but it cannot be ignored.

ALL minorities are judged by their extremes. When I walk down the street on the northside, I have to make the extra effort to look particularly inoffensive lest I get lumped in as being one of "those" black men. Yes there are black men that are uneducated thugs, and I'm not one of them. But you know as well as I do that in this society, it is up to US to prove that we are not one of them.

The same is true of gay men. Obviously not all gay men are oversexed drama queens, but that is the image in the popular imagination. Everytime a famous gay person lives up to that stereotype, reinforces the idea in the popular consciousness.

That is HARDLY news to anyone.

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by: SciFi Geek @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 15:17:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

That pressure to conform shit

I don't think you meant to be offensive, to me it just is. Offensive.

And, no, I don't have to prove a goddamn thing to anybody. If you judge me by extremes, then that's your problem, not mine.

And noone has ever mistaken me for an uneducated thug.

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 15:22:14 PM CST

[ Parent ]

This is a good discussion

When I walk down the street on the northside, I have to make the extra effort to look particularly inoffensive lest I get lumped in as being one of "those" black men.

I don't do that on the northside of Chicago. I didn't even do that in Maine.

Now in Maine, it did occur to me standing on the road, at night, alone, and by a church (I was coming from a 12-step meeting) waiting for a ride to pick me up that I was asking for it...meaning that this isn't exactly a good place for a black man to be playing games on the phone and chit-chatting, etc.  

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 15:37:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

But this was a blow for equality

Sure, Lambert was making the case that gay artists, particularly gay male artists, should be as shocking and overtly sexual as straight artists. Of course, in this case he is actually mimicking straight female artists, but I think that was the point.

Lambert knows that many artists, Madonna in particular, have used open sexuality to shake people up and make a name for themselves. He is trying to do the same, and explicitly stated that censoring his act for the West Coast feed - which was done - would be discriminatory. Madonna's role on the floor in the wedding dress was 20 years ago, and that was not censored. Her kiss with both Brittany and Christina - which Lambert totally homaged by choosing the platinum blond keyboardist - was not censored, so why should his?

He may not be a gay leader like Harvey Milk, but Lambert is clearly prepared to, if not pave new ground, at least demand the same respect and treatment that any other artist gets, and that is powerful.  

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by: CPT_Doom @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 15:47:02 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Exactly.

And I only wish I had a queer role model like Adam Lambert when I was growing up.  Not everybody likes their art -- or their heroes -- to be sanitized and obedient.  If nobody thinks twice about a male same-sex kiss on the concert stage in twenty years, we'll all know exactly who we have to thank.

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by: diablorobotico @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 16:44:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

This is the point.

That's why I always loved Prince as opposed to Michael Jackson. I mean, Prince was shaking things up long before Tipper Gore put in her $.02.

Of course the irony is black queers, in a sense, have always had role models that could shake up conventions like this.

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by: kevinchi @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 17:09:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Remember though

That people were just as outraged when Madonna kissed Britney Spears.

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by: Donica @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 17:51:04 PM CST

And could care less now.

I think that's the point. This is a potential blip as far as scandal goes, but as far as groundbreaking, it works. It has the added advantage of being pretty ludicrously tame.

If Lambert had been the half-naked one in leather and chains, the pearl-clutchers could get some traction, but he was in a suit! Edgy, true, but not only fully dressed, but by rockstar standards he might as well have been in a burnoose.

If he manages to have a career (he definitely has the talent), this is going to go on the list of TV moments with Elvis's carefully cropped pelvis - to be laughed at as how provincial people used to be.

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by: Lymis @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 19:28:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

True

But having to listen to the homophobes is annoying.

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by: Donica @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 22:08:25 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The video is down

It looks like the video is down. My coworkers were complaining about it too, I wanted to see if it was as bad as they said. Oh well.  

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by: reblaw @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 19:22:12 PM CST

It's ridiculous, though

Out magazine lambasting him for not being gay enough, homophobes lambasting him for being too gay. It's ridiculous already.

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by: Donica @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 22:07:40 PM CST

Call ABC! Support Adam!

Come on people support your man!

Call ABC and say you loved his performance, state your name and state. Push Adam over the top! Cancel out the haters calls!

Please call 818-460-7477

As each prompt begins Press:

1 for Audience Info
Then 2 for Comments
Then 5 for ABC Specials
Then 368 for ABC Entertainment

You will then have 30 seconds to leave a message of support!

"Every time an ambulance passes it is either someone who opposes gay rights dying or someone who supports them being born."
~ Christopher Hayes

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by: Eddie89 @ Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 20:08:30 PM CST