Minneapolis Quakers take stand on same-sex marriage

Quakers

They may well lose some members over this.

Probably not, the Quakers have always been progressive. This shouldn't hurt them too much, if at all. Or at least judging from the Quakers I have met. The anti-LGBT, anti same sex marriage people could not survive in a open democratic church structure like the Quakers, they are the type of people who need a strong leader who tells them how to think.    

nothing new at this time.....

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by: Mattkazoo @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 20:19:28 PM CST

Clarification

The concern expressed by the congregation was that male-female couples might leave because if they were married in the Quaker faith that they would also have to go through a civil marriage to get their marriage certificate.  

The congregation voted to support same-sex marriage anyway.

The first couple to express interest in being married in the Quaker church understands this and wants to go through with their marriage even if they have to have a second civil marriage.

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by: bkmn @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 20:45:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Comment on clarification

I've made a longer comment elsewhere, but I can vouch that no couple in the meeting--straight or same-sex--said they would leave or said they would not pursue marriage at the meeting as a result of this decision.  

After all, for the moment, if same-sex couples (Quaker or otherwise) want to get legally married, they have to travel out of state, so it's not too much to ask STRAIGHT couples to go to city hall or to a justice of the peace for their civil marriage.  It's a blessing that Iowa and Canada are so close to Minnesota (to the south and to the north, respectively), where all couples can be legally married.

Blessings,
Liz Opp, The Good Raised Up

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by: lizopp @ Wed Dec 09, 2009 at 11:58:29 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Cool beans

I have always liked the Quakers.
If I was a theist, I'd probably be a Quaker or a Unitarian Universalist.

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by: PurpleLove08 @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 20:27:19 PM CST

Though the UUs at least

aren't all theists -- for awhile, IIRC, atheists were actually the majority.

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by: M @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 20:31:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

There's a lot of common ground between the two faith traditions

As a matter of fact their service committees work jointly on a lot of projects.  The biggest difference seems to be the order of service - UU's have more structured services than Quakers.  UU's also ordain ministers, Quakers do not.

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by: Phil @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 20:41:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Isn't there one major difference?

Quakers are Christians by definition.  U-Us are not (although individuals may be).

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by: Lurleen @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 22:04:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yes, but it seems to be a pretty open definition

Again, I'm coming at this from the UU perspective, but I have some friends who are Quakers - actually Society of Friends is the proper term.  It takes a pretty open view of Christianity and is not per se tied to the Bible.  It seems, from my perspective, to focus more on the Holy Spirit - the third part of the Trinity.  However, it is a more personal relationship with the Holy Spirit - a far cry from Evangelical churches where the emphasis is to "spread the word."  There also do not seem to be the Dogmas associated with even the most liberal Protestant faiths.

I am unsure whether Quakers are considered Anabaptists, as are Amish, Mennonites, and Hutterites.

Those services held by Society of Friends that I've attended were lay-led, and seemed to consist of a time of personal meditation and reflection, prior to anyone speaking.

Are there any members of Quaker congregations here who can shed some light on this?

I enjoyed attending these services.  It was a refreshing change of pace for me and I really felt I came away with something from them.

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by: Phil @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 22:55:01 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Quakers, Christians, and Anabaptists

Historically, Quakers were--and many still are--anabaptists: not performing (physical) baptism and other such sacraments.  

These days, some Quaker branches, Quaker meetings, and Quaker individuals are more Christian than others, and yes, our roots are in Christianity.  

Generally, Quakers might be better thought of as a faith tradition that strives to live out a primitive Christianity--one that historically differentiates itself from current right-wing, mainstream fundamentalists.  At least in the U.S.

Like most religions, it's complicated.  

Blessings,
Liz Opp, The Good Raised Up  

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by: lizopp @ Wed Dec 09, 2009 at 12:04:06 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Same

Always loved them.

"Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion, you must set yourself on fire!"

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by: Reiuji @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 22:41:55 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Same here

They're one of the first, if not the first, religious organization in America to vocally object to slavery and become abolitionists. The Quakers are many kinds of awesome.

"Oh, I thought you meant a specific plan. With maps and stuff." -Buffy

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by: Aspasia @ Tue Dec 08, 2009 at 15:45:11 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't know the particulars of this situation

but this melts even my bitter grinch heart towards religious groups.

Some really are about love.  Wow.

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by: Tom P @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 20:41:29 PM CST

I hope they start doing this throughout the country

like they are in Britain. It will certainly damage the "God's will" argument.

NOM ~ "Mine is an honorable task and I shall drown out anyone who claims otherwise!"

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by: RainbowPhoenix @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 20:54:15 PM CST

God Bless the Minneapolis Quakers

The shared their church when MCC Minneapolis began. They even had hateful graffitti sprayed on their building, which MCC insisted they would pay to clean up, and Quakers said No, we were their guests.

They really are an outstanding congregation!

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 21:28:38 PM CST

I'm not sure what Friends preach concerning their members who are gay/lesbian

But the over riding principle of treating others as equals, is what they put into actions, better than any faith group I've seen.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Tue Dec 08, 2009 at 00:20:47 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Hello, I really can't say that I know of ANY other org that "treats others as equals"...

really sorry to say.  This is the Missing Link in all other sects.  Usually there is a heirarchy with old white Grand Poo-bahs to whom you must bow dow.  I never knew.  I plan to learn more.  Thanks!

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by: customartist @ Tue Dec 08, 2009 at 08:23:45 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Wonderful!

A true act on principle.  

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Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 22:06:17 PM CST

Quakers aren't uniform, but not related to Anabaptists at all

Without getting too much into the details, every Quaker or SOF meeting is different.  There are conservative groups, especially in the Midwest and Texas, but most of the Quaker groups in the Upper Midwest are extremely liberal and have performed same-sex blessings for as long as I can remember--way before other churches did.  Some of the Quaker colleges are extremely conservative.  Regardless, even the conservative ones believe in racial equality and are anti-war--the SOF has been pacifist since they first formed.

If you've never been to a Quaker meeting, it's one of those things you should do before you die.  Especially anyone who has been poisoned by traditional church.  I can't stand the cannibalism of Communion--even at MCC--so I started going to Friends meetings a few years back and it's amazing.  Not what you'd think at all.  

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by: blakelight @ Tue Dec 08, 2009 at 01:48:46 AM CST

FYI:

They are not the first congregation to adopt this policy. A UCC Church in Southern Oregon did this in January 2009 http://archive.dailytidings.co...

Also interesting to note the number of denominations testifying in the NJ Senate Judiciary Committee today. The most compelling testimony, IMO, coming from ministers who said their faith allows gay marriage. However their congregants did not receive the same legal recognition as other faiths.

 

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by: goddesspdx @ Tue Dec 08, 2009 at 03:06:04 AM CST

From One Quaker

I've been a "convinced" (meaning I converted) Quaker since 1972, and while nominally the RSOF is considered to be a Christian denomination, we are notorious for having a variety of views even within our own meetings; some are Christians to their own degree; others are not.

The traditional Quaker meetings are the ones with the unprogrammed meetings for worship and have been the staunchest supporters of equality.  When I lived in Minneapolis in the mid-1970's and attended meeting there, I was impressed by their stand on gay and lesbian issues, including marriage even back then.  So this stand is not surprising, and it fits in with the Quaker tradition of peaceful resistance.

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by: Mustang Bobby @ Tue Dec 08, 2009 at 06:42:56 AM CST

more of this..

i'm basically a religion hater but knowing i have that skewed view i'm always looking for things that are good about religion to balance my view in the other direction.  i don't want to be a hater.  my partner went to william penn college in iowa in the 70's, a quaker college.  she also is atheist but has nothing but great things to say about the quakers, except that her prof's would always show up to class on the harshest of iowa winter days.  i was always impressed with the amish response to the crazy guy that shot up their school kids.  they embraced his widow and made sure that she was cared for in her time of grieving.  no blame, just love.  i always respected that they lived their faith but didn't try to make others participate.  i have an older sister that is mormon.  she has never tried to 'convert' or 'preach' to family but she talks all the time about church activites and the things that her 5 kids and 20+ [i've lost count] grandkids are doing.  when my sister, and neices, were married in the temple in salt lake, mom couldn't go inside.  she didn't like it but didn't pitch a bitch.  heck, not all mormons can get in the temple so at least it is a consistant rule.  my point i think is that without my 50 years of watching my sister convert in high school, go to byu, marry, raise kids in this faith, send her sons on missions, etc.  i can see all the good things the mormons do and how they provide so much more education and opportunity and support to others because they believe it is the right thing to do and they do it cheerfully.  it is such a contrast to the news of the things the church does that again, it helps me with balancing my views.  thanks for posting this story and i would like to see more of this kind than more of the other.  i'm weary of focusing on stupid religious people.  if that is all one focuses on then that is all one sees and these folks can't be reached.  we really need to seek out and recognize the 'good' ones and bolster their efforts to be heard.  we could blunt the arguement of the bigots with the example of the good religious that just do good and don't seek the reward of fame and attention.  let us focus on the positive for all our mental healths and to feel good about people again.  it is a move worth pursuing imho.

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by: swabby @ Tue Dec 08, 2009 at 08:23:21 AM CST

From a member of this particular Quaker meeting

First of all, thanks Pam, for picking this up and posting.  Apparently Pam's House Blend is one of the main sources where other Quakers and non-Quakers are learning about the news!

Second, please correct your readers: Twin Cities Friends Meeting is in Saint Paul, not Minneapolis! (And since there is a Minneapolis Friends Meeting, this could be very confusing, though they also are a GLBTQ-friendly meeting.)

To read the actual minute that was approved, click here.

Third: It's unlikely that members of Twin Cities Friends Meeting or of this branch of Friends will leave as a result of this decision.  For one thing, the meeting has had on the books since 1986 a minute (a record of a decision) affirming that our own meeting would "marry" same-sex couples--meaning that we would bear witness to God's joining two people together, whether that be a straight couple or a same-sex couple.  

Also, there have been plenty of opportunities for worshipers to be a part of the conversation, discussion, and Spirit-led discussion, prior to considering the minute in a more formal manner.  During those times, no one indicated they would leave the meeting or the Religious Society of Friends.  That said, there are some Friends who express discomfort at some parts of the minute--but ideally, Quakers strive to lay aside our personal preferences and instead listen inwardly and together for a sense of where God is leading us.

So we took this step, in faith.

Lastly, I'd like to say that a few houses of worship within the Twin Cities area had preceded the Meeting's action by a few years.  At least one (I think two) UCC church has done so, as has a UU church.  I can say this with great accuracy because I served on the ad hoc committee that explored the question of marriage equality on behalf of the meeting, and I spoke to these local houses of worship about their own process.

Okay, that's enough for one Quaker to say!  Thanks, again, Pam.

Blessings,
Liz Opp, The Good Raised Up

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by: lizopp @ Wed Dec 09, 2009 at 10:36:12 AM CST