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NC U.S. Senatorial Candidate Forum, Durham, NC. (Cunningham, Lewis, Marshall)
You can review the Tweets from the event: @PamsHouseBlend.
My wrap and video are here.


Waterboarding IS torture

by: RadicalRuss

Thu Nov 01, 2007 at 11:38:04 AM EDT


The Senate is still wrangling with the nomination of Michael "Accent on the 2nd syllable, not the 1st" Mukasey to be our next Inquisitor Attorney General.  The only thing holding up his nomination are those pesky questions about waterboarding.

Is waterboarding torture?  The AG nominee can't answer this simple question with a yes or no.  Well, gee, it depends, I don't know, how are you defining it, what the media calls "waterboarding", delicate circumstances, and so on, Mukasey continues to wriggle and sidestep the question.

Because the answer is "yes".  Waterboarding is torture.  We prosecuted the Japanese for war crimes when they waterboarded our troops in WWII.  The museum to the atrocities of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia show numerous pictures of those genocidal maniacs waterboarding innocent Cambodian villagers.  We supposedly invaded Iraq because Saddam was an evil bastard who tortured his citizens (sometimes by waterboarding).

So Mukasey must dance, for if he says under oath what most Americans know in their hearts and minds, that waterboarding is torture, then that opens up Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, Rumsfeld, and any other administration figure complicit in these techniques to charges of war crimes in the International Court.

But don't take my word for it; read the words of a former master instructor and chief of training at the U.S. Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE) in San Diego.  These guys train our soldiers to resist torture techniques if they are ever captured by the enemy (after the jump...)

RadicalRuss :: Waterboarding IS torture
I have personally led, witnessed and supervised waterboarding of hundreds of people. It has been reported that both the Army and Navy SERE school's interrogation manuals were used to form the interrogation techniques employed by the Army and the CIA for its terror suspects. What is less frequently reported is that our training was designed to show how an evil totalitarian enemy would use torture at the slightest whim.

Having been subjected to this technique, I can say: It is risky but not entirely dangerous when applied in training for a very short period. However, when performed on an unsuspecting prisoner, waterboarding is a torture technique - without a doubt. There is no way to sugarcoat it.

In the media, waterboarding is called "simulated drowning," but that's a misnomer. It does not simulate drowning, as the lungs are actually filling with water. There is no way to simulate that. The victim is drowning.

Unless you have been strapped down to the board, have endured the agonizing feeling of the water overpowering your gag reflex, and then feel your throat open and allow pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs, you will not know the meaning of the word.

How much of this the victim is to endure depends on the desired result (in the form of answers to questions shouted into the victim's face) and the obstinacy of the subject. A team doctor watches the quantity of water that is ingested and for the physiological signs that show when the drowning effect goes from painful psychological experience, to horrific suffocating punishment to the final death spiral.

Waterboarding is slow-motion suffocation with enough time to contemplate the inevitability of blackout and expiration. Usually the person goes into hysterics on the board. For the uninitiated, it is horrifying to watch. If it goes wrong, it can lead straight to terminal hypoxia - meaning, the loss of all oxygen to the cells.

So, how does it feel to have America equated with the most murderous, torturous regimes in the history of the world?  The fact that we even have to have a debate, not on whether we torture, but what we can define down from torture and still get away with, shows just how far George W. Bush has taken this country down from a shining city on a hill to a psychotic meth addict in the gutter.
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Other testimony

I wonder if anybody caught this part of his confirmation hearing:

Q: Does the Constitution still exist?

A. It depends on what you mean by 'exist'?

Yes - I just made that up.  But, is what Mukasey actually doing any less disturbing than that would be?

Kat



>^..^<

They were asking Mukasey a legal question.
Mukasey didn't answer because he could not say whether waterboarding  was illegal torture because he had not been briefed on the details of the classified technique and did not want to suggest that CIA officers who had used such techniques might be in “personal legal jeopardy.”

Bob, can you clarify the issue of "illegal torture."
I have not been following this story much yet. Is it not true that all actions that constitute torture?

[ Parent ]
Oops! That should read
I have not been following this story much yet. Is it not true that all actions that constitute torture are illegal?

[ Parent ]
Actually this phrase was taken from the New York Times.


[ Parent ]
Waterboardng isn't classified.

Its already outlawed in the UCMJ.

The United States has signed several binding trreaties that state it is, indeed, torture.

The US has laws preventing the use of torture on people.

The rest is, well...



http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

[ Parent ]
Legal Question
He wants to be Attorney General.  The job involves answering legal questions. 

[ Parent ]
Did you know
It's against the Geneva Convention, which is a treaty which we signed. That means that it's against OUR laws to use any torture because the Constitution holds treaties to be higher laws than anything that congress can pass.

<3 Sam

[ Parent ]
History
Waterboarding goes all the back to the Spanish Inquisition and in more modern times the Salem witch trials.  We were all taught in grade-school that it was torture then.

does Mukasey know anything about anuthing?

Just like Gonzales, who "didn't know" what was going on in his department, Mukasey should be dismissed because he "does not know" what waterboarding is.  Is he always going to be this unprepared in office?

Better, why doesn't someone on the committee suggest that he go home and cram, then return with the answer?

Maybe this would in the future keep all these slimy characters from thinking that feigning ignorance is ever a good way to avoid answering.

 Tomistocles



Oh well. Hillary doesn't answer anything either.
And she wants to be president.

[ Parent ]
I'm glad you agree with me on Mukasey, Bob,...

...and I'll grant you that Hillary is not exactly forthcoming or unambiguous in her answers.  And admittedly neither are most other Democratic candidates.  But I'm sure you will agree that, compared to Giuliani and Romney, who are an embarrassment to national politics, Democrats are totally steadfast.  Do you support Huckabee perhaps?

But in your zeal to strike back, you missed my point, honey.  You should read more closely...but wait, it might then turn you into a Democrat.  Horrors!

I am making the point that pretending not to know something should not be any more acceptable than a wrong answer.  The equivalent for Hillary would be, say, "uh... driver's licenses for undocumented aliens...uh...I can't answer because I'm not sure what the benefits of having a driver's license in New York State are...and I'm not exactly sure which illegal aliens are included in the deal...I haven't been briefed."  But she didn't do that, did she?



[ Parent ]
Hillary was asked for her opinion; not a legal question.

There's your difference. Hillary is so damn crooked, she won't commit to answer answer that could come back to haunt her politically.  When she does slip up and offer a definite opinion, she'll deny she said it.

As I said, Mukasey was asked a legal question, and being the precise legal scholar he is, he felt he did not have enough facts to issue a generic answer.

I hope that clears it up for you, Chauncey.



[ Parent ]
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