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The Christian Civic League of Maine's Mike Hein calls Pam's House Blend:
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Ex-gay "Christian" activist James Hartline on Pam:
"I have been mocked over and over again by ungodly and unprincipled anti-christian lesbians."
(from "Six Years In Sodom: From The Journal Of James Hartline," 9/4/2006, written from the "homosexual stronghold" of Hillcrest in San Diego).

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"A nutty lesbian blogger."
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NC U.S. Senatorial Candidate Forum, Durham, NC. (Cunningham, Lewis, Marshall)
You can review the Tweets from the event: @PamsHouseBlend.
My wrap and video are here.


Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: gays are 'immoral'

by: Pam Spaulding

Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 20:30:00 PM EDT


[UPDATE: Think Progress has the audio of Pace.
UPDATE 2: I wonder what Pace thinks of Matt Sanchez's interview on The Michelangelo Signorile show yesterday (see the end of the post)?
UPDATE 3: SLDN's Steve Ralls says you can send a message politely taking Pace to task by filling out the DoD comment form online, or call the Pentagon directly, at (703) 428-0711.
UPDATE 4: Freeper reactions are below the fold.]

Well it's nice to see a refreshing, frank, Tim Hardaway kind of anti-gay statement coming from the military leadership, which has presided over countless immoral military acts in Iraq. Way to go.

Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that he supports the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" ban on gays serving in the military because homosexuality is "immoral" and on par with having an extramarital affair.

..,Addressing the controversial policy as part of a wide-ranging interview with the Tribune in Chicago, Pace said the military should not "condone" immoral behavior by allowing gay soldiers to serve openly. He said his views were based on his "upbringing," in which certain types of conduct were thought to be immoral.

...Pace did not address concerns raised by a 2005 government audit that showed some 10,000 troops have been discharged because of the policy. Among those discharged were more than 322 linguists, including 54 Arabic specialists, according to the Government Accountability Office report.

"The real question is: what is moral about discharging qualified linguists during a time of war simply for being gay or lesbian?" said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights advocacy group. "Our military needs the best qualified men and women who are willing to serve in the military, protect our freedoms and preserve our American values of equality."

Uh, what does Pace's upbringing have to do with military readiness and effectiveness? This is not the kind of leadership the military needs when medically unfit soldiers being shipped to Iraq, roaches and rat droppings are in the hospital rooms of wounded vets, and there is a shortage of trained people waiting to serve whose only "crime" is being gay.

Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN) didn't hold back and calls for Pace to apologize.

"General Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces," said C. Dixon Osburn, the group's executive director.  "Our men and women in uniform make tremendous sacrifices for our country, and deserve General Pace's praise, not his condemnation.  As a Marine and a military leader, General Pace knows that prejudice should not dictate policy.  It is inappropriate for the Chairman to condemn those who serve our country because of his own personal bias.  He should immediately apologize for his remarks."

...The Williams Project at the University of California-Los Angeles estimates at least 65,000 lesbian and gay Americans are currently serving on active duty and the reserves.  Another 1 million gay Americans, the group has estimated, are veterans of the armed forces.

"Regardless of one's opinion about `Don't Ask, Don't Tell,' every service member deserves respect," said Osburn.  "Secretary of Defense Gates should immediately condemn Pace's remarks.  Their apologies should be swift and sincere."

National Stonewall Democrats weigh in:
"We expect President Bush to condemn these remarks out of respect for our men and women who are currently serving and dying in Afghanistan and Iraq. It is immoral to send our servicemembers into battle without the proper equipment or plan. It is immoral to deny them proper medical care upon their return and it is immoral to revoke support for our troops based on this misguided policy reaffirmed by General Pace and the White House.

The current "Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue" policy is not only immoral, but it creates a threat to our national security by dismissing qualified personnel for political reasons when they are desperately needed to combat the War on Terrorism. It was the wrong policy to enact in 1993, and it is the wrong policy to pursue today. That is why Congressional Democrats have introduced the Military Readiness Enhancement Act in an attempt to fully support our troops and defend the security of all Americans."

- Jo Wyrick, Executive Director, National Stonewall Democrats

Personally, I think Pace should resign -- contact your members of Congress and tell them that.

Anyone who would denigrate the gays and lesbians who are already serving -- many openly in their units where their commanding officer and colleagues are accepting -- doesn't deserve to lead. Pace has nowhere to hide on this one. Unacceptable.

John is spot-on:

No, I'd say "immoral" is letting our own injured and maimed soldiers sleep in their own urine when you all knew about it and didn't give a damn. Immoral is lying to the American people in order to get us into a war. Immoral is sending hundreds of thousands of US soldiers into battle without the proper armor. Immoral is risking the lives of our soldiers by still not having a plan for victory or exit.
Actually, Pace is right in line with the thinking of the knuckledraggers over at WingNutDaily:

What is your reaction to the latest campaign to install 'gays' in military?

UPDATE 2: Military man, darling of Fox and conservatives like Ann Coulter, former f*ck for hire and gay porn star Matt Sanchez was on the Michelangelo Signorile Show yesterday and declared that he's not gay.

Surf over to Joe.My.God to listen to clips of the show, where he evades questions about DADT, his life in porn, and gay bloggers. Joe:

Signorile was led in circles for most of the interview, getting Sanchez to at least declare that he is not gay, never was, and that he willed himself into erections during all that man-fucking. Set your bullshit detectors on high.
One of the ironies of Sanchez's appearance, now with Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff mooing about the immorality of homosexuality, is that Sanchez says he has spoken to the Marine Corps and was told that he didn't have to worry about getting kicked out. Has Pace been notified of this?
Pam Spaulding :: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: gays are 'immoral'
What are they saying in the swamps? Take a look...

Actual Freeper Quotes?

Nice to see straight talk from a general.

Well, I predict that he'll be replaced or retired by this time next week.

Uh oh. Somebody is gonna be resigning soon.

Let's keep Pace.

Welp, he's done. LOL

whoa, the macacca is going to hit the fan now. But you know, it's about time conservatives stood up and said it like it was. Now if the rinos get a spine and back him Pace, things might improve.

As a vet (USMC) I admit I don't support the don't ask don't tell policy. I think you should ask, and kick the homos out!

Those soldiers from Sparta sure were wusses, now that I think about it.

Anyway, why would anyone want to defend anal sex?

It's always seemed dumb to me to put a flagpole in the middle of a foxhole, anyway.

Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip Hooray! God bless you, Peter Pace.

Oh boy. That sound you hear is the spineless Pubbies running for cover. Unfortunately, the General will be fighting another war shortly, a fight for his career.

Schumer will call for him to resign tommorrow.

Now he's gone and torn it.......... He should ask what the MSM never will: since homos are almost universally liberal, and we all know liberals almost universally hate the military and will not serve, just why are homos so eager to get into the military?

"Anyway, why would anyone want to defend anal sex?" Paging John Edwards.

He didn't say they couldn't fight, he said it was immoral.

Gay people have served in the armed forces since day one, what they want is to be open about it. This would undermine moral, send the wrong message to our enemies and oppose the prevailing military culture. Don't ask, don't tell is the only policy that allows soldiers to keep their private lives and serve their country if that is their wish.

Well, They asked and he told! Pace is one of Bush's best appointments yet.

Good for this General. Homosexuality is a sick, twisted perversion on the same level as abortion and cannabilism. Only a society as moral compromised by political corrrectness as ours could possible condone the kind of perversive behavior we "protect" here.

As the good General pointed out, there are lots of heterosexual activities that are immoral also. Unfortunately, heterosexuals like them. That's why the homosexual agenda is so popular. If we start saying we should care about morality, it's going to impact a lot more people than the homosexuals.

Homosexuality is a sick, twisted perversion on the same level as abortion and cannabilism.

Are you sure you want to go there? Tell me one religion that calls homosexuality a perversion that does not also lable pre-marital sex the same. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that there's a huge can of worms that's been open for a long time. Homosexual behavior is only one of those worms.

Well, the general did say he thought it was on a par with extramarital sex. I guess he'd be in favor of kicking out soldiers who had extramarital sex.

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Well, I think...
...that ugly, pencil-necked geeks with jug ears are immoral. I also think it is immoral to give children alliterative names.

Perhaps Peter Pace should worry if I'm ever put in a position of power and influence.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.


I demand his resignation
and we all should - how are gay service people supposed to feel safe even under DADT with the highest ranking officer spewing such bigotry ?

I wrote my congressman to demand Paces resignation - I wish everyone would.



Like Opening a Time Capsule
Seriously, Pee-Pee's comments, and those horrendous poll stats look like something dug up from 1957.  Could one argue that we haven't come a long way, baby?

=>The truth usually isn't pretty. Don't blame me for telling it.<=

All immoral soldiers removed?
Should just immoral homosexuals be banned from service or does he propose that any unmarried soldier that is having sex should also be banned?

Is it a ban on all immoral behavior or specific immoral behavior?

If specific immorality only should be banned (same sex acts), what does that say about his morals?  Is he saying he condones pre-marital sex?

The swiss cheese of his judgment needs to be examined.

Is he saying that he only wants moral soldiers raping and killing Iraqi girls and their families? 

Will he propose a morality test in order to serve in the military?

If adultery is immoral, then we certainly can't have a President - a commander in chief in charge of the military - that has been immoral. 

I guess that rules out Guiliani and Gingrich...


What's really immoral
Great post. Solmonese and the John whom Pam links to argue that it's immoral to discharge gay and lesbian soldiers at a time of war. While I agree with that view, I think we risk losing sight of what's really immoral, which is this guy working and colluding on the fundamental injustice of depriving gay and lesbian people of the rights that fellow citizens enjoy. Let's not collude in making gay and lesbian people secondary or apologetic by trying to find a more palatable, supposedly universal reason for why this policy sucks.

[ Parent ]
even worse
it would be even worse to say it suddenly is OK to accept LGBTs into the military at a time of war because they fucked up and have no plan.

they knew DADT existed in 2003 when Iraq was invaded. 

if it is suddenly immoral to keep them from serving now, it was just as immoral before the war started.

DADT is a disgrace.  This war is disgraceful.  Our government is immoral.


[ Parent ]
Gosh, yes! When will those radical activists stop using the military...
...for fringe social experiments, like letting blacks serve alongside whites?  It's an outrage, I tell you, an outrage!

/sarcasm

"If the apocalypse comes... beep me." -- Buffy Summers


Pace is saying that lying is more moral than honesty...
Don't ask don't tell requires gays to commit a lie of omission in order to serve.  Don't ask Don't tell throws honesty on the scrap heap.  You'll have gays in the military either way, but Pace prefers dishonesty and has the gall to call that MORAL.

This man's idea of morality is truly a perversion of morality, a 180 degree perversion.

Folks, this is what REAL perversion is -- exchanging the truth for a lie.


Excellent observation
Yeah, it really boggles the mind that they (Pace et al) consider themselves moral (add decent, honorable, and so on) when they are requiring fundamental dishonesty. We need to make that connection and expose it for its fundamental insincerity and cruelty.

[ Parent ]
"Corrupt culture"?
"...this is the one institution of our society hasn't be subverted by the corrupt society"

Bullshit!  The marionettes who are trying to control the military are the corrupt.  Halliburton, ExxtortionMobil and others are corrupting the military for their own gain.

Also, General Pace has very corrupt religious views that he can't keep to himself.


Power-worshipping authoritarians and their fetishes
It would be disastrous--this is the one institution in our society that hasn't been subverted by the corrupt culture.

*squawk*  The military is the only good and pure and true thing we have left here in America!!!  Everything else is infected with moral cancer!!!  *squawk*

Fascism is here, folks.  And, yes, as a matter of fact, it  is wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.  Please, increase your level of political activism in any way you can.  I hope I'm being alarmist, but the chances that these totalitarian freaks are going to go down quietly is pretty slim.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto


Sportin', I think the reason fascism is back is because...
...those who defeated it last time are too old or too dead to fight it again.

[ Parent ]
As seen on the silver screen ....
Governor Tarkin: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.

General Tagge: But that's impossible. How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?

Governor Tarkin: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.


[ Parent ]
UhOh
Im afraid of Darth Cheney starting to Force Choke me

Try not. Do or do not. There is no try.

[ Parent ]
Upbringing
He said his views were based on his "upbringing," in which certain types of conduct were thought to be immoral.

In my upbringing, also, certain types of conduct were thought to be immoral. A big one was joining the military and learning how to kill people.

When you have an organization whose sole MO is to use force and murder anyone who gets in their way, if need be, I find it very surreal for someone running it make distinctions about what is moral and what isn't.


Peter Pace - wasn't he on Queer As Folk?
Peter Pace picked on a peck of puckered peckers. Now say that 69 times fast.

Blaming the "upbringing" again?
Isn't this "upbringing" stuff what John Edwards used to explain why he can't say gays and lesbians have the right to civil marriage?  Must be the latest fad in explaining away bigotry for people of all political stripes.  It's just a way to avoid responsibility for their own bigotry:  "it's just the way I was brought up."

Please. 


You Got That Right About Edwards!
What Opie said about his upbringing and why "that's why I'm not there yet (about same-sex marriage)" was a nauseating, cowardly cop-out.  He also blamed his attitude on being 53 years old.  That's what he said.  Like being for equality and upholding the Equal Protection Clause is some kind of teen-age, skate-boarding, pot-smoking hippie idea.

=>The truth usually isn't pretty. Don't blame me for telling it.<=

[ Parent ]
did the taunt get him any closer?
I wonder if Edwards got any closer to understanding why it is important for him to move his ass a bit closer to being "there" regarding marriage when Ann picked on him.

Do you get it, John?  Ever been called a faggot before, John?  Ever been denied citizenship before John?  Put it together John....I realize you are an attorney and a former Senator...it must be hard for someone with your education and experience to understand why it is a problem.

unless...you are only saying that to appease the right wing lunatics...you know, like the ones that called you a faggot.


[ Parent ]
Pace is an idiot, of course, but it should be recognized that...
...the US military has become little more than an adjunct of conservative evangelical christianity.  http://www.salon.com...

My only issue with the discrimination against gay people is that "veterans" are awarded bonus points on civic service exams, both at the federal leval and at the state level.  That's why there are so many stupid people in the civil service.  Some of the dumbest people I've run across in government service only got there because they had served in the military, whether or not they actually saw combat duty.


Pace's "Upbringing"...
... is Catholic, incidentally.

Suddenly it becomes much less surprising.


Pagan Papist?!!
So, if Pace is a Roman Catholic, that means to all evangelicals/Baptists/fundies, Pace is a pagan, idol-worshipping, immoral papist. Wonder if he believes that his colleague's anti-Catholic religious upbringings should be the basis of military policy? On the flip side, as a Roman Catholic, he cannot be accepting the immorality of adultery (all those divorced and remarried), heresy (all Protestants), and fornication (all those married in churches not accepted by Catholicism) - is he arguing for rules against all those people?

[ Parent ]
Actually, it means that he is beholden to...
...the Harlot Vatican, the Whore of Babylon.

I never cease to be amused at the lengths that these christian cults go to denigrate one another.


[ Parent ]
"Upbringing" is no excuse for bigotry.
I tossed off my American Baptist upbringing when I was 10 years old.  Ironically, it was because of the obvious anti-Catholic bigotry expressed by our American Baptist minister.

Pace's Catholic upbringing is no excuse for his anti-gay bigotry.


I was raised by bigots
And now I'm gayer than a $3 bill!!! 

Upbringing has nothing to do with how you eventually turn out.

Only someone who believes they have no control over their lives and ultimately their destinies would believe something like that.

Well, that sounds like most fundamentalists I know!


[ Parent ]
Callie
Based on my upbringing, it would be okay to call African American's "darkies."  I don't do it because it is wrong, stupid, and would rightfully paint me as a jackass.  I started questioning my upbringing around the time puberty reared its pimple-scourged head.  Most people learn to reject many old "truisms" and incorporate new information about the world.  I learned that difference is a good thing, and not to trust the old hierarchies put in place by my forefathers. 

Now watch: Pace will respond to the outcry by saying his words were "taken out of context."


[ Parent ]
Hey! Ya'll took all my comments!
Seriously, all great and accurate comments.

You know, he likened homosexuality to adultery and tried to claim that being gay is just as immoral and thus immoral people shouldn't serve in the military.

Gee, I wonder how many people would be able to serve in the military if adultery could keep you out.  After all, it's just as immoral as homosexuality and immoral people shouldn't serve.  Therefore,...you get the point.


Covering His Ass
Likening homosexuality to adultery and disapproving of both in the military is just his way to cover his ass later so he can say I'm not a homophobe - I'm against all sexual immorality in the military.

If extra-marital and pre-marital sex are also immoral and thus verboten I feel sorry for all military personnel. And since the Bible specific outlaws masturbation for men...

Ah, maybe we've uncovered the real reasoning. Prevent all these sexual men and women from having sexual release (does the word saltpeter ring a bell here) and they'll channel all that energy and anger into fighting the enemy.
Yeah, that's the ticket.


[ Parent ]
you're on to something here
turn the military into The Fightin Priests & Nuns.  Only the celebate may serve.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.


[ Parent ]
In the immortal words of Stephen Fry...
When will people stop using the phrase "in my upbringing" to try and excuse their prejudiced feelings and beliefs? Do people not realize that you can change what you learned in your upbringing?

I was listening to Gen. Pace's comments this morning and still can't get over how obsessed these pundits are with what two consenting adults decide to do in private.

Perhaps Pace should deal with all of the heterosexuals who are raping our servicewomen and focus less on, as Stephen Fry put it, "What you do with your penis or your bottom or anything else is so supremely irrelevant in a moral sense. It's what we do with our personalities and other people that matters."


an answer
Well, if everyone in the military who actually believes in defending America were to start thinking logically and morally, within an hour or so the only American military personnel remaining in Iraq would be a handful of Pace clones and newly-enlisted felons.

Then, if the current ruling junta still was hot on keeping the Iraq occupation going, they'd have to turn to....

oh, I dunnow, the Freepers and the Bush twins?

Kat

>^..^<


[ Parent ]
The Bush twins can't go.
They're drunkards and fornicators. 

Every soldier who's killed someone over there has to return, for they broke one of God's Big Ten: Thou shalt not kill. 

Every guy and gal over there who's slept with another soldier out of wedlock, or who EVER slept with someone out of wedlock has to return, for they're fornicators.

Every officer who portrayed the war in a dinengenuous way has to return as they also broke one of the Big Ten commandments: Thou shalt not lie.

Every soldier who took a souvenier that didn't belong to them has to return: Thou shalt not steal.

And so on.

Bada-bing, the war's over. 

Now Bush and the rest of us have to show some real leadership and configure a way to live with less oil, rather than relying on imperialism to keep the oil pumping.


Oh, please, Holly
They're drunkards and fornicators.

So they would be perfect fodder for the bois in the military.

/tic.


[ Parent ]
Rape of servicewomen, civilian foriegn women and young girls,
being clients of prostitution including child prostitution....all moral, because all heterosexual, in Pace's eyes?

Here's The E-mail I Just Sent The DOD AT THE Address You So Kindly Provided
Please explain to me how Gen. Peter Pace can justify the exclusion of gays and lesbians from military service because homosexuality is immoral when, in order to meet recruiting goals, there have been over 8000 MORAL WAIVERS issued in order to allowing convicted felons to serve in the military?

Also explain to me how Gen. Pace can use his upbringing to justify discrimination against any American, all of whom have been created as equals by The Creator? This sitting in judgment is immoral since God is the only one with the right to judge morality.

Finally, if morality is so important to Gen. Pace, why didn't he resign the moment he found out that the war in Iraq was the response to a created fiction to sell a war that politicians wanted to fight regardless of any opposition. That, and the subsequent deaths of over 3200 American man and women, is probably the biggest act of immorality that this nation has seen. If Gen. Pace is so set on imposing his morality on gay and lesbian Americans wanting to serve their country in time of war, how can he ignore that moral code and continue to serve under an immoral Commander-In-Chief fighting an immoral war. He should resign his position on the joint Chiefs of Staff as an act of moral indignation.


look in the mirror, general, if you're looking for immoral behavior.
I wish one of the reporters had asked General Pace what act is more immoral...sex between consenting adults or his allowing our wounded soldiers to receive substandard care and to languish in filthy, bug infested hospitals.  Another example of an arrogant, big mouth who needs to take a good look at himself in the mirror before he starts making judgmental opinions about others.

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