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The Christian Civic League of Maine's Mike Hein calls Pam's House Blend:
"a leading source of radical homosexual propaganda, anti-Christian bigotry, and radical transgender advocacy."

He is "praying that Pam Spaulding will "turn away from her wicked and sinful promotion of homosexual behavior." (CCLM's web site, 10/15/07)


Ex-gay "Christian" activist James Hartline on Pam:
"I have been mocked over and over again by ungodly and unprincipled anti-christian lesbians."
(from "Six Years In Sodom: From The Journal Of James Hartline," 9/4/2006, written from the "homosexual stronghold" of Hillcrest in San Diego).

"Pam is a 'twisted lesbian sister' and an 'embittered lesbian' of the 'self-imposed gutteral experiences of the gay ghetto.'" -- 9/5/2008



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A "vicious anti-Christian lesbian activist."
(Concerned Women for America's radio show [9:15], 1/25/07)

"A nutty lesbian blogger."
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--Impeach Bush


who monitors yours Bevis ?? Just thought I would drop you a line,so the rest of your life is not wasted.
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Civil Rights on Death Watch?

by: TerranceDC

Mon Mar 23, 2009 at 17:13:22 PM EDT


This has been in the back of my mind for a while now, so I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: If the California Supreme Court upholds proposition 8, it will signify nothing less than the death of civil rights in this country.

Think I'm wrong? Well, which of these folks do you want voting on your civil rights?

TerranceDC :: Civil Rights on Death Watch?

It's something the NAACP and other civil rights groups understand, and why they've stood in opposition to the proposition 8 as it's passed into the hands of the California Supreme Court justices.

Next time you go to a protest, somebody please put these words from a previous post on a protest sign or poster. You have my express permission to use these words over and over and over again on as many signs, flyers, buttons, etc. you want.

You may not be gay, but you may be next.

The NAACP, the Mexican-American Legal Defense Fund, the Asian Pacific American Legal Center and those other civil rights groups probably get that they may not be gay, but if what happened in California on proposition 8 stands, they may be next. You may not be able to fit the next part on a sign, but it's the rest of the argument.

Remember that we used to live in a country where civil rights weren't decided by majority vote. Remember that we used to live in a country whose founding documents cite "inallienable rights." Remember that we're may not be living in that country anymore, and even if your rights were not up for a vote this time around, they are almost certain on someone's hit list.

...If you think for one minute that the people who have been against civil rights from the beginning will stop with same-sex marriage or with gay people, you may be surprised. What they did in California was to establish a beachhead as a basis for overruling almost any established civil right on nothing more than a simple majority vote. In other words, they got a foothold for establishing majoritarianism.

And that mean what, exactly?

What's unsaid and unquestioned in all of the arguments above is the increasing conservative push for majoritarianism. Or, to put it plainly, absolute majority rule. Might, in other words, makes right. The majority is automatically right , no matter what it wants or doesn't, because it's the majority. Only the current crop of Republicans and religious conservatives go a step further than traditional majoritarianism, by seeking to bar a future majority from disagreeing with the (perceived) current majority.

What's scary is that the creeping support for majoritarianism may result in a situation where no one has any "unalienable rights," that the majority can't take away, because the two avenues minorities have traditionally had to access justice that the majority withholds - the courts and the legislature- will have been delegitimized fo that purpose.They'll henceforth exist only for the purpose of enforcing the will of the majority because, as noted above, the majority can't be wrong.

And I'm not the only one concerned that we're about to enter and age where tyranny of the majority is the new norm.

Whatever the California Supreme Court ultimately decides, there can only be winners and losers, which would ironically include the court.

There are several problems embedded should the court uphold Prop.8. First, it would mean the majority, however slim, becomes the ultimate arbitrator for what is just in the state.

...Simple majority rule is a binary decision-making process that is unable, and in most cases unwilling, to examine the limits of its own power, which if unchecked can ultimately lead to the tyranny of the majority.

The concept of tyranny of the majority has its roots in Plato's Republic; it is used in reference to democracies and majority rule. The actual term originated with Alexis de Tocqueville; it is a criticism of any scenario in which decisions made by a majority would place its interests above a minority's interest to the point that majority will becomes "tyrannical."

This raises the question: Who gets to decide what's tyrannical? In our form of government that role has been given to the courts. They alone have the authority to call balls and strikes on the ideals that the people have committed themselves.

But the court has already ruled on this matter. Were it not for the mulligan granted to the electorate known as the initiative process, same-gender marriage, as an issue, would be fait accompli.

As I've noted before, the courts have been under attack from the right for quite some time, now, and the progress they've made towards disestablishing the courts as route for minorities to seek justice is disturbing.

As an African American and a gay man, I know that the courts played a role in my even being where I am today, because of opportunities I wouldn't have had but for decisions like Brown v. Board of Education; because people had access to the court as a route to obtaining justice when all other roads were firmly blocked. It's unlikely things would have advanced as far as they have if the only option was to wait for the will of the majority to shift. There are people whose lives would be radically different today, and perhaps not for the better, had the majority always been allowed to rule.

What we are on the verge of losing in our judicial system just now-and could just as easily lose down the road if we aren't vigilant-is the principle that might-in the form of numbers, in this case-does not and should not make right. As I've said before, it's the understanding that sometimes the will of the majority may also be the furthest thing from justice, and thus should not be allowed to stand.

We are on the verge of becoming a society where a Brown v. Board of Education could never happen. We are on the verge of becoming a society in which injustice would be allowed to stand because it's believed that's what most people want. We have only now stepped back an just an inch from the ledge. There will be another push, and another, and another in the next few years.

That was back in 2005. Four years later, we're back on that ledge and possibly even taking a step towards justice being defined by the will -- or whim -- of the majority.

Supreme Judicial Court Chief Justice Margaret Marshall, the commencement speaker at the Waltham school, expressed concern over recent attacks against the judiciary.

"Our courts function as a pressure valve to defuse political and social tension," Marshall said. "As a nation, we have tacitly agreed that it is better to settle our large differences in the courtroom than in the street."

..."I worry when people of influence use vague, loaded terms like 'judicial activist' to skew public debate or to intimidate judges," Marshall said. "I worry when judicial independence is seen as a problem to be solved and not a value to be cherished."

..."Respect for the rule of law is deeply imbedded in our American experience but it is not embedded in our DNA," she said. "Each of you must decide whether to embrace, to protect the rule of law, or to repudiate it. Make no mistake, inaction and indifference are acts of repudiation."

Marshall referred to past U.S. court rulings school desegregation and civil rights as proof that an independent judiciary is vital.

"Individual rights and human dignity are vulnerable when they depend for protection on the will of the majority or the good faith of those in power," she said.

One more push and, as I've said before, we risk losing one of the foundational concepts of our system of governance.

The way I see it, one of the things that a republic, or at least our republic does by design is to preserve democracy and protect the rights of the minority against the tyranny that can result from absolute majority rule. For example, the majority of citizens might decide that it ought to be a crime to criticize the president's policies. They might be strong enough and loud enough in number to get such a law passed. However, the Supreme Court-once a legitimate case winds its way to them through the lower courts-can decide that such a law violates the first amendment. You are once again free to call the president a blockhead without fear of being hauled off to jail and/or fined.

I think one of the great things about the way our system is set up is that it gives those in the minority both a chance to be heard, but also a chance to acquire justice when an injustice has been done, regardless of majority sentiment. On some level, the system recognizes that might does not make right. The majority may be wrong. What the majority wants may be unjust, and thus does not necessarily have to stand. Six million or so Massachusetts citizens can be wrong.

Fortunately, we don't have absolute majority rule in this country. If we did I shudder to think what rights and protections some Americans would still be waiting for the majority to decide to share.

I guess it comes down to a choice between modes of social change; a choice of rapid vs. gradual social change. The Massachusetts Supreme Court did in just a short time what would likely have taken another 20 to 30 years to accomplish, if then. The court that decided Brown v. Board of education did what would have taken several more generations to even start. I suppose it's only natural for a group of people who are suffering discrimination or other injustice to desire a more rapid course to relief; just as natural as it is for those who benefit or derive privilege from the status quo to be reluctant to change it in a way that requires them to give up or share what has been their exclusive privilege thus far.

Of course, the judiciary isn't the only route to achieving justice. It isn't the only means of settling the question. Public education and lobbying efforts can be and are often productive. In my personal and professional life, I've participated in both. Hearts and minds can and do change. Polls have shown that a majority of people who know someone who is gay or lesbian tend to believe that gays and lesbians should not be discriminated against because of their sexual orientation. But it's not the only route to acquiring justice. And it's not any more (or less) legitimate that the judicial route.

The answer from the majority-to those seeking equality, justice, and the like-is always "Wait. Wait until we feel like it." Some of us are still waiting, and balk at being asked to endure injustice for a while longer. Meanwhile we face discrimination without protection. Meanwhile we live without the rights and protections our friends and neighbors enjoy. Meanwhile our families live without the same rights and protections as the family down the street or on the other side of town.

What's more disturbing is that some progressives are too willing to ceded this ground, and quickly when it comes to issues -- reproductive choice and LGBT equality -- where doing so might win them a few more votes. Even when they themselves support reproductive choice and equality, the full implications of ceding that ground to our opposition get lost in the narrow focus on a particular issue or particular election,

The AlterNet commenter rues that Roe v. Wade gave social conservatives an issue to exploit, and fears it has empowered them beyond progressives' ability to counter, and suggests it would be better if Roe had never happened even if that meant that many women would continue to die from illegal abortions. The blogger for the Independent Gay Forum fears that the taking the fight for equality to the courts will result in a backlash and that it would have been better not to, even if that means that same-sex couples and their families continue to go without the rights and protections that other families enjoy.

Better to remember your place, keep your head down, and speak softly lest you draw the attention of the bully on the playground - the majority, that is - because the biggest and strongest deserve to rule based on nothing more than their might. Perhaps you can curry favor with them over time - several decades, perhaps - but until then you will simply have to live with injustice and inequality if that's what the majority deems you worthy of. Oh, you may speak up against it if you dare; write a letter to editor or join a protest. But you may not, you'd better not, take your quest to the halls up justice because they aren't (or soon won't be ) in the business of dispensing that commodity unless it pleases the mob.

Retroject that into the past, and you get a lot of judicial decisions that were important for minorities that probably shouldn't have happened. Of course Roe v. Wade shouldn't have happened, and neither should Loving v. Virginia or Brown v. Board of Education. For that matter, neither should the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or the Voting Rights Act of 1965 for that matter. And it goes without saying that the Lawrence v. Texas decision shouldn't have happened either.

Neither the decisions, nor the social changes the set in motion - and the justice dispensed to the minorities who approached the courts in seeking it - should ever have happened. And not just because the courts should no longer be in the business of justice for minority citizens (or women seeking reproductive freedom of choice). Even if it means that more people would have to suffer discrimination, none of it should have happened. Those who benefited from having legal recourse against discrimination shouldn't have benefited, and should have been discriminated against. Those who are alive because of access to safe and legal abortion shouldn't be.

...If the majority wanted discrimination to continue, than people should have been discriminated against. If the majority wanted abortion to remain illegal, than women who sought abortions should have continued to die in back alleys. Because the majority wanted it, and if the majority want it then it must be right.

And it's not just because the majority wanted discrimination at the time, or preferred back alley abortions (though one can assume they did, and that they were right because they were the majority). It's also because if you are a woman or a minority, your rights should not be the same in one state as they are in another. Of course, if you're a member of the majority, chances are you can go anywhere you want without worrying that, say, the legal status of your relationship with your spouse or your children. But if you're a gay family traveling through Oklahoma, if you have an accident and wind up in the emergency room you may find out that you're not a family in Oklahoma. Because you have fewer federally protected rights that you can count on everywhere in America.

And that's as it should be. Because the segregationists were right, the south won the civil war, and because we are (or are becoming) a confederacy after all. It may not be good for minorities, but that makes it good for America.

I'm hopeful the California Supreme Court - especially after a landmark ruling that not only placed marriage equality squarely in the realm of civil rights, but echoed with all that America has promised to be on paper - will not put a roadblock on one of the paths towards fulfilling that promise.

But I'm keeping a black armband handy just in case.

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Totally Agree
As I've said before, if people can vote away the civil rights of gay people, who's to say white redneck men and bitter black women won't team up and get along long enough to disable interracial marriages?  

It seems the white female/black male interracial couple is the most hated mix in this country, so don't think they won't come after these couples at some point.  They use the bible to hate on gays, just as they previously used it against race mixing.  

The question is, should the gay community support and help the next targeted group?  


Support unconditionally:
The question is, should the gay community support and help the next targeted group?  

I'm with Simone de Beauvoir:  "To will oneself free is to will others to be free."


[ Parent ]
Well, the end of civil rights in *California*
What a loss on prop. 8 basically means is the California state courts will no longer be in the business of protecting civil rights. They will no longer have that power, they will have abdicated it. Persons living in California will still have federal civil rights protections, for example under the 14th amendment. But if we find the state violating our rights to equal protection under the law-- or for that matter free speech, or anything else-- then our the federal courts will be our only safe recourse, because the courts will have decided that simple majorities are free to selectively eliminate rights at will. (And, of course, if the majority supports the idea of you having rights, then you generally won't be worrying about the state taking it away in the first place; it is precisely because ideas, speech, groups are unpopular that they wind up at risk of being suppressed.) In short the California supreme court cannot credibly let 8 stand without proclaiming our state constitution broken, fatally flawed in its basic design such that the popular amendment provision overrides all others, a document that says nothing for certain except whatever 51% of the populace wants it to that day. The federal constitution will be, for 30 million Americans, the only higher law left.

I worry
...about the possibility that the pro-H8 people are aiming their "will of The People" argument at SCotUS as well as at the California Supreme Court.  The argument was couched in terms too broad (as "inherent rights" of "The People", where "The People" is taken to be synonymous with "50%+1 of those who are able to vote in any given election) to be intended as California-specific.

[ Parent ]
I have made a similar
arguments in some of my blog posts.  If Proposition 8 is upheld, the precedent that will be established is terrifying.  Today it's the gays, tomorrow the non-Christians, perhaps Asians next, then after that blacks and Hispanics.  The lily white Christianists hate basically everyone but themselves and will slowly and disingenuously work to chip away the rights of others that they do not like.  

Upholding 8...
...is dangerous precedent all the way around.

If the Bush pResidency was a Constitutional crisis, upholding Prop 8 makes it null and void.  Letting 50%+1 determine the course of even one person's life makes even the concept of Civil Rights a non-issue.  Everyone will be at the mercy of every tin-plated demagogue that comes down the pike.


I don't think that the...
...California Supreme Court will go that far.  I think that they will cut the baby and do the same thing that the US Supreme Court did in Bush v. Gore.  

In other words they will uphold Prop H8 and then leave the decision, in technical language, "unpublished;" in other words they will uphold the proposition but declare that their decision is not to be used for precedent in future civil rights cases.


But the precedent, published or unpublished, remains
Next:
Deny healthcare to undocumented immigrants

Close Mosques through zoning rules.

Remove trans people from victim status in a murder:
"the killing of a trans person shall be charged as involuntary manslaughter"

Authorisation of excessive force by law enforcement to put down riots


I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid


I am CONFIDENT
that My Man Ming will do the RIGHT thing!  

You also
lack any credibility whatsoever, what with your super-secret decoder ring statements, and your "I've been sworn to secrecy" load of bullcrap.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing

[ Parent ]
LOL! I shouldn't do that but...LOL!
You are so right!

[ Parent ]
I Love you BROTHER!
I really do.  

[ Parent ]
Laugh Now MoFos!
You'll see. You don't KNOW what is going on underground. Thank GOD you don't. Types like you are the MoFos on the plantation Harriet Tubman KNEW to stir clear from!  However, you are my comrade in the Beautiful Struggle. It matters not if I am CREDIBLE in your eyes.  All that matters is that EQUAL RIGHTS are coming.  I AM SO GLAD THAT YOU WILL BENEFIT. You don't even have to thank me. Just thank GOD that people like me exist. We in the trenches don't need you. Blast me all you want...I'M WORKING ON THE FRONT LINE...underground...but on the front line...nonetheless...  

[ Parent ]
**LOL**
((((((((((HUGS STAYWOKE)))))))))))

I love you, honey. ^_^

I hope they do the right thing. I really do. But once again, you have more faith than I.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi


[ Parent ]
Humph!
Spend $60k on Law School and become a law clerk for a judge...I DARE ALL Y'All...one day you will understand what TRUE POWER IS...You better get your people in the PROPER POSITIONS TO BRING ABOUT REAL CHANGE...two straight guys (one from my from my alma mater; UCSD...once home to Herbert Marcuse and Angela Davis...props to Professor Irons...the man who taught me the LAW) are now compiling signatures to place an initiative on the CA 2010 ballot; The Domestic Partnership Initiative...Keori, I KNOW what you are doing; I give you mad props & much respect sista...Laugh now, MoFos...laugh now...I got last!  

[ Parent ]
$60K? Pffft.
I'm spending $10K GI Bill money on paralegal certification program with an emphasis on family and tort law. Learn all about legal writing and theory, reasoning, how to research with West, do the analyses, write the briefs, and in the end, tell the lawyers what to do. ^_^ Now I work with a guy who is married to a former family court judge. Add that to some government work, a clearance, veteran status, and friends in the University system and the legislature, and I got the HOOKUPS. Don't you worry, we'll get ours.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

[ Parent ]
You Go Girl!
You're doing that thing! I would suggest you get your notary license in addition to your paralegal certificate.  After working as a paralegal/notary for a few years....all the while putting back money for law school...why not do law school?  I believe you would make AN EXCELLENT ATTORNEY.  

[ Parent ]
Terrance
How much do I love you?

http://EQFL.org

James Madison in THE FEDERALIST:
Wherever the real power in a government lies, there is the danger of oppression.  In our government the real power lies in the majority of the community.

The concept of protecting unpopular individuals and minority groups from the tyranny of the majority is one of the key political ideas that drove the formation of the United States of America.  One after another, the Founding Fathers wrote about the need for a political structure that protects such individuals and minorities.  Madison was far from alone in that.  If the California Supreme Court rules that the majority has the right, by a simple majority vote, to deprive members of minorities of constitutionally guaranteed rights, it will mark the end of America as a political idea, as a political and philosophic bastion against tyranny.  One of the most important things this nation has always stood for will be dead.  And I can't imagine we'll see it revived again any time soon.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary


I wish you
had argued in front of the court, instead of that dweeb Brown picked. This is much more persuasive, in just a few words, than he managed to stammer out in the whole time he talked.

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing

[ Parent ]
Justice Ming W. Chin's Opinion
Read it MoFo when it is rendered. That's all I'm going to say.  You are so QUICK to DIS people...you don't even know...I'm fighting for YOU...ungrateful MoFo...Yes...YOU...QueerInSoCal...GOD help me to remain humble and compassionate in the face of my oppressors...forgive them for they know not what they do...I'm cool now...QueerInSoCal...EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE ALL RIGHT...I don't care if you don't believe me...I'm just a messenger.    

[ Parent ]
Peace and blessings!
Namaste, Louise.  I thank you for all that you do.

[ Parent ]
Fuck your Namaste.
The only other person who ever used that phrase on me is dead and I am GLAD.

Piss up a fucking ROPE.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners

Click here for DADT photobook


[ Parent ]
I Love You, Louise!!!!
Whoooooo, SistaGirl! May GOD bless you and keep you.  You BRING FIRE, FY-YA to my world...thank GOD I'm a Pisces cusping hard on Aquarius...Hee, hee, hee...But on the REAL; NAMASTE, my sister.  I honor the GODDESS in you...I really do.  Make way for A Beautiful World...it's coming...and YOU - Queen Mamacita Louise...along with QScribe, KeviKev, Mistress Teacher Lurleen, & King QISC are helping to bring it about whether y'all like it or not.  I thank you for contributing to the cause for a More Perfect Union and a Peaceful Planet.

Paz, blessings, and MUCH RESPECT!

La Lucha Continua...All Power to the People!

LOVE IS ON THE WAY...  


[ Parent ]
You're a fucking looney tune!
That you haven't been scooped up and institutionalized says alot about the sorry state of America.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners

Click here for DADT photobook


[ Parent ]
Whazup, L Doc?
Buggz Bunnie in da' House! You got that right, baby! Amerykah...love it or leave it!

Louise, your Ad hominem arguments are FUNNY!!! Haaa, haaa, haaa! I can't wait to see you on Comedy Central.

That's all folks...


[ Parent ]
Someone OD'd on the happy pills...
and I ain't talking about SSRIs either! Last time I was that luvved up I was dancing around in a dark room listening to repetitive music and chomping on little pills.

(bonus points if you recognise the quote)

____________________________________
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.


[ Parent ]
Hee, hee, hee!
Tavdy, you've made my day! Laughter is good for the soul. Who needs pills when I've got y'all to bring me giggles. HAAA, HAAAA, HAAAAAA! Love you!

[ Parent ]
OK
So you've got some sworn-to-secrecy pipeline, directly to Judge Ming, and you're "CONFIDENT that My Man Ming will do the RIGHT thing" - implying that Prop 8 will be struck down.

Why then would we need two people from your purported alma mater to "[compile] signatures to place an initiative on the CA 2010 ballot"? Your man Ming is going to strike it down - why would we need an initiative?

Or maybe you don't know what the hell you're talking about?

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing


[ Parent ]
I'm NOT Implying that Prop 8 will be Struck Down...
Prop 8 MAY be UPHELD. A Judge Chin drafted majority opinion MAY get the state "out of the marriage business". Marriage, as legally defined now[CA CONSTITUTION ART.1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS: SEC. 7.5. Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.], may be rendered unconstitutional as being violative of Equal Protection...as it is an under-inclusive LEGAL term [it excludes similarly situated SGL persons]. An ALL INCLUSIVE legal term like "civil union" or "domestic partnership" MAY be proposed. The Domestic Partnership Initiative would dovetail with this decision or bring it to the people if the court can't so rule (i.e., it's a matter for the Legislature as opposed to the bench). The overall effect  being the will of the people coinciding with the judiciary and/or Legislature; as the majority of people have no problem with civil unions/domestic partnerships that ensure all the legalities of marriage...just under a different, ALL INCLUSIVE, name.

Please see the following for further erudition:

http://www.google.com/hostedne...

http://www.newsobserver.com/15...

http://www.angus-reid.com/poll...

California may be the bellwether state helping to usher in Federal Civil Unions for All legislation...Or maybe I don't know what in the hell I'm talking about...you're so CUTE QueerInSoCal...    


[ Parent ]
Federalist Papers 10 and 51
Check them out.  You're on it!

[ Parent ]
.
If the California Supreme Court rules that the majority has the right, by a simple majority vote, to deprive members of minorities of constitutionally guaranteed rights

But I believe there are many who are saying that the right to marry is not a "constitutionally-guaranteed right", that's the rub. And however one feels about that, there is not much convicing the other side; yet this is a real crux of the argument.


[ Parent ]
The California SC themselves ruled that it IS constitutionally protected.
That's what started this whole mess.  The damage they could to by undermining their own ruling--damage not just to themselves and their authority, not just to the LGBT community but to American democracy itself--is positively mind-boggling.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary


[ Parent ]
REVOLUTION!!!
It's coming...

[ Parent ]
Many have said this, in many different ways,
  The action of actually letting prop H8 go before the people was the major wrong committed.  Not the way it came down.

 To even have a minority's rights be allowed to be placed in the hands of the majority set the precident that civil rights are up to the majority. The California Supreme Court let this happen.  If the Court overturns Prop H8, the Court will be overturning itself.  Which I doubt they will do.  

 Sadly, I think the court let prop H8 go to the voters because they thought it wouldn't pass and they would escape the pressures they would have fecad if they ruled prop H8 could not go before the people.

 I believe the only way Marriage Equality will return to California is one of two ways;

#1 Another amendment to undo prop H8.

#2 The complete removal of DOMA, and then a SCOTUS ruling that a States' Ban of Marriage Equality is Unconstitutional.

I hope I am wrong and the court overturns prop H8.  The revision vs. amendment would have given the court the right answers, but some Dip Shit presented that prop H8 is an amendment.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.


Ah yes, that's the rub
The action of actually letting prop H8 go before the people was the major wrong committed.  Not the way it came down.

That's the whole problem with the voter-initiative system as it exists in California.  ANYTHING can get on the ballot if it gets enough signatures.  It doesn't have to pass any test of constitutionality; it doesn't matter if it reiterates laws already on the books; as long as it gets enough signatures, there are no strictures.

I'm really hoping the whole system gets overhauled someday soon.  As a Californian, the last few elections have really tired me out with the barrage of state, county, and local initiatives we "get" to vote on.


[ Parent ]
the other half...
The other half of the problem in all initiative states afaik, is that the fantasy of good citizens concerned for their state running around collecting signatures is not the reality. The reality is instead well paid people collecting signatures, often lying about what the intent of the initiative is.

Initiative and referendum is a complete and utter failure everywhere as far as I'm concerned.


[ Parent ]
People have laughed at me many times
When I say I never want to live in a full fledged democracy.
Our form of government was never set up to be a full democracy, but a representative democracy (a type of republic).  Where the people have a say, but are governed by the constitution, representatives and laws.

People often choose their society to be organized as a republic because of  the prospect of staying free of state religion.  Theocracies have never succeeded without civil rights being sorely infringed upon.

Political thinkers like John Locke had a huge influence on the emergence of republics in America and France and his opinions are unmistakable: separation of powers, separation of church and state, etc. along with the other major political thinkers of the day.

The past decade or so, I have cringed when the loud voices in the political arena throw the words "we are a democracy, let us vote on it" around so easily.  Even in my Poli-Sci class, people talk about how they think the electoral college should be eliminated.  Oh I know W. wrangled that one, but damn it, it is in place to protect us from a popularly elected tyrant, most of the time anyway....
Terrance is right, if everything is left up to the majority vote, it will be the end of civil rights.


"They say that time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself." - Andy Warhol



"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal


DO THE RIGHT THING
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest.

-Mark Twain


CHIEF JUSTICE ROSE ELIZABETH BIRD IN 1986.

Believe it not, some " progressives " thought that Governor Hiram Johnson was wise in 1911 when he instituted the referendum and recall statute into the California Constitution.

 In 1986, a referendum recalled the late Chief Justice Rose Elizabeth Bird for her refusal to reinstitute the death penalty in the Ronnie Raygun presidential era.

 Ken Starr, dean of Pepperdine Law, and lawyer for the extreme Right Wing Billionaires of the Nation, suggested that the Republican and one conservative Democratic Supreme Court should not repeat their "activism" and repeal the "will of the people". All national and informed pundits say the split decision is uphold Prop 8 and uphold the few marriages made before the election.

 Other states, like the two with civil marriage, require that Constitutional Conventions with specially elected delegates change the state constitutions over a period of years, and many votes. That law saved marriage in the USA anywhere.

 Why am I giving up, and accepting my spouse and in-laws to come to Canada and eventually take up citizenship?

  It is because I believe that at my age (63) that I would never live to see the day when rights in the USA were equal to rights in Canada....simple enough!


"the will of the people"
Polls have consistently show that a solid majority of Americans support a woman's right to choose.  Similarly, every poll I've seen since the 60s has shown that most Americans favor handgun controls.  I wonder why the right wing isn't willing to acquiesce to the "will of the people" on those issues.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary


[ Parent ]
THIS IS EXACTLY WHY
I am not at all happy with Bastard Hypocrite Obama.

We have the power right now to push through Democratic agenda items such as civil rights issues that have been blocked for years. If it isn't done now, it could be another 30 years before the Presidency, Senate, and House are lined up like they are now.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. -- John F. Kennedy (inspired by Dante's Inferno)


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