Q Of The Day: Is Dressing Like A Girl Different Than Dressing Like A Boy?

There should be parity, but...

Reynolds neglects to mention--and may well neglect to notice--whether or not the baby dykes at his school suffer harassment. It's true that what females are allowed to wear has more latitude. But even high school kids know the difference between straight girls in jeans and lesbians in butch attire; and I can assure you that young lesbians are constantly harassed and assaulted. Should Reynolds be allowed to "cross-dress?" Sure. But the tired argument from male-socialized people--that they're the only ones who get the back of society's hand when they "transgress"--is a crock. They just don't bother to notice when others suffer. I'm rooting for him. But if he thinks being "allowed" to dress as he wishes means everything will be hunky-dorry, he's in for a rude awakening.  

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by: hardcorps80204 @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 07:49:11 AM CDT

There has long been this double standard

What society deems appropriate attire for men has long been far more restrictive than it is for women. I'm sure the school even has a dress code that is far more limiting for men. I guess the logic is that men's clothing will only go to cover women up more and t5his is more "conservative." Of course women and girls had to fight for the right to wear pants so...this has not always been the case.

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by: SciFi Geek @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:50:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Women's attire...

...is also quite limiting.

When was the last time you saw a women's "Skins Team" play basketball in gym class?

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by: Jim @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 00:57:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

They should not be treated differently from anyone.

Likewise, female students should not be treated differently for their dress.

Hate stops a beating heart.

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by: KarenS @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:04:31 AM CDT

In an ideal world ...

... students could come to school in full drag if they wanted to, and the school system would have their back.

But it's not an ideal world.  And the binary-gender Nazis don't like to be confused, and so they set up these silly rules to keep everyone in their boxes where they supposedly belong.

To the question of the day: no, a boy "dressing like a girl" is different than a girl "dressing like a boy."  But I think it's also important to note the difference between "dressing like" and "presenting as."  The way I look at that photo above, Justing is "presenting as female," and I think that a girl could upset the apple cart just as much by "presenting as male."  That's very different from a girl who wears a flannel shirt, jeans, and hiking boots but keeps her flowing locks, eyeliner, and lipstick intact.

"There are two kinds of people in this world -- the kind who separate the world into two kinds of people, and those who don't."  -- Gloria Steinem

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by: red7eric @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:17:47 AM CDT

I'm not sure the implication is that it would all be hunky-dory

I'm sure it's just as hard for the lesbian students, but I wonder how many of them had to meet with a principal who strongly suggested they go home because of the way they were dressed.  

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by: Kringas @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:21:54 AM CDT

well, I wasn't told to go home...

but I was told if I "prettied it up a bit" I wouldn't be such a target for bullying.  

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by: fitswimmer @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:42:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

an ideal world

Ideally, any student should be allowed to wear whatever they want to school as long as it doesn't present a safety hazard, or is too bare. Either this, or every student could wear the same uniform, and I mean exactly the same. That would mean pants and shirt, even for the girls, since girls are "allowed" to wear pants in our society, and boys aren't "allowed" to wear skirts or dresses.
I went to a fairly liberal high school, and back in the seventies, I wore some pretty silly outfits to school. It's part of being a teenager for some people, to dress outrageously, or differently. People place just too much importance on clothing, and conformity. I'm a clothing design professional, and I've noticed that what the psychologists say is true: 99% of the reasons why we wear what we wear isn't motivated by comfort, warmth, or the cold, etc. It's for reasons of conforming, or rejecting the roles that are placed upon us by society. School could be a good place for kids to work out those relationships with society without getting beaten, ridiculed or censured.
It's interesting to note that in many parts of the world, men who don't wear a skirt/dress/robe would be the weird ones (Indonesia, Cambodia, Saudi Arabia) etc. There just isn't a single universal dress code that works for everybody, so why try to create one? How boring that would be.
Let the kids express themselves!

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by: pauliji @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:47:36 AM CDT

There is a double-standard

But it's certainly not total. Plenty of FtM folk I've spoken to have had troubles and tomboys seem to get less accepted the older they get. But there does seem to definately be a greater degree of free gender expression one way than the other both in dress codes as well as general public acceptance.

And things change across (sub)cultures too. There is more parity in Goth culture and for Goths in general culture. There are still bigots amongst Goths, though in my experience there seems far less, and certainly a goth guy can get away with far more androgyny and makeup etc in general public. But when it comes to uniforms and dress codes Goths are often discriminated against plenty too.

I can imagine no reason why there should be different standards of dress for boys or girls or biased standards of dress or overly restrictive dress codes either.

I think this kid is a hero. I certainly was not so brave at that age.

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by: battybattybats @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:40:53 AM CDT

I, for one

Think everyone, male/female/andro should get on the skirt train. They are so cool and comfortable!
But in all seriousness, I have often thought it is odd how much further women have to go out of their way to be considered crossdressing. I can be wearing a buttoned vest, collared shirt, jeans, loafers and no makeup and still be considered girly enough to please people. Men can be wearing a skirt, athletic t-shirt, short hair, beard and sneakers and because of one item of clothing, be crossdressing. I've always thought it was kind of silly.
I consider myself very feminine, but I have a lot more latitude with that than a man who considers himself very masculine.  

http://chimaerandi.blogspot.com/

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by: GirlyQ @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 13:54:00 PM CDT

Legally, you asked.

Ianal, of course.

Legally speaking, they can be treated differently because they can be expected to conform to dress codes, which may be structured by gender so long as there is a specific need for such that can be demonstrated.

This is why certain establishments can require women to dress in a certain way that is considered essential to business (many casinos, for example).  Dress codes at a topless bar can be and are legally different for men and women.

Should they be is not a legal question -- its a hypothetical one and law dislikes dealing with hypotheticals except so as to inform an actual consideration.

Now, do schools have a compelling reason to require students follow strict, gender based dress codes?

Well, to be frank, I don't know enough about the challenges of the school system, although I can expect that requiring girls to wear cups would be a bit strange, as would requiring boys to wear bras.

So from my ignorant of the facts of the matter position (which I likely share with many blenders), I'm gong to say that I have no idea.

It strikes me as, well, asinine to do it for the most part outside of dressing for sports (which I, as a transwoman, never did in school myself).

Then again, I'm pretty evil: I supported a unisex uniform clothing requirement that did not vary by gender.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 17:55:39 PM CDT

stir the pot and let the principal sort it out...

School dress codes usually include words like,"disruptive of the educational process."  Does attire calculated to attract bullying disrupt that process?  Are these distinctions that can safely be left to high school kids, or are these the kind of judgment calls we expect of schools when they are acting in loco parentis?

Yes, kids need a safe space to "test the waters."  The rest of the non-water testing students also need a teacher who is not distracted by discipline problems in the classroom.

So in a perfect world, it shouldn't make a difference.  We live in a world of balancing needs.

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by: GregC @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:33:32 AM CDT