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The Christian Civic League of Maine's Mike Hein calls Pam's House Blend:
"a leading source of radical homosexual propaganda, anti-Christian bigotry, and radical transgender advocacy."

He is "praying that Pam Spaulding will "turn away from her wicked and sinful promotion of homosexual behavior." (CCLM's web site, 10/15/07)


Ex-gay "Christian" activist James Hartline on Pam:
"I have been mocked over and over again by ungodly and unprincipled anti-christian lesbians."
(from "Six Years In Sodom: From The Journal Of James Hartline," 9/4/2006, written from the "homosexual stronghold" of Hillcrest in San Diego).

"Pam is a 'twisted lesbian sister' and an 'embittered lesbian' of the 'self-imposed gutteral experiences of the gay ghetto.'" -- 9/5/2008



Peter LaBarbera of Americans for Truth Against Homosexuality heartily endorses the Blend, calling Pam:

A "vicious anti-Christian lesbian activist."
(Concerned Women for America's radio show [9:15], 1/25/07)

"A nutty lesbian blogger."
(MassResistance radio show [16:25], 2/3/07)


Pam's House Blend always seems to find these sick f*cks. The area of the country she is in? The home state of her wife? I know, they are everywhere. Pam just does such a great job of bringing them out into the light.
--Impeach Bush


who monitors yours Bevis ?? Just thought I would drop you a line,so the rest of your life is not wasted.
--"Joe"

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Pam Spaulding

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An Online Magazine in the Reality-Based Community.


Obama and Clinton botch the 'immorality' question; Edwards answers it directly

by: Pam Spaulding

Thu Mar 15, 2007 at 00:00:00 AM EDT


I received plenty of emails about Hillary Clinton's triangulation over Gen. Peter Pace's assertion that gays are immoral, however she's not the only one who bobbed and weaved.

An ABC reporter asked her a direct question about whether homosexuality was immoral, and the wheels spun and this came out.

"Well, I am going to leave that to others to conclude."
Hardly a statement of support for a community that she's trying to squeeze cash out of on the DL.

This shouldn't have been a hard answer to offer up, given she's for the repeal of DADT, but there you have it. Her inability to answer the question with a flat out "no" to ABC resulted in underlings scrambling to clarify the message. (CNN):

Clinton's spokesman, Philippe Reins, said the New York senator "obviously" disagrees with Pace and that everyone, including the general, "has the right to be wrong, but should not inject their personal beliefs into public policy."

Then Wednesday night, the campaign released a statement from the senator herself, saying, "I disagree with what he said and do not share his view, plain and simple."

"It is inappropriate to inject such personal views into this public policy matter, especially at a time in which there are young men and women in such grave circumstances in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and around the world," Clinton said.

But let's be fair -- Barack Obama was equally weak on this matter. When asked the same question about homosexuality and immorality, suddenly the smooth-talking, crowd-pleasing Obama caught a bad case of the sHillaries when talking to Newsday:
On Wednesday, Newsday repeatedly asked Obama if same-sex relationships were immoral.

"I think traditionally the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman has restricted his public comments to military matters," said Obama, leaving Capitol Hill. "That's probably a good tradition to follow."

He turned the conversation to opposition to the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy: "I think the question here is whether somebody is willing to sacrifice for their country."

Later, an Obama spokesman said the senator, in fact, disagrees with Pace.

What? He had to have this leak out through a spokesperson after the horse is out of the barn? How w-e-a-k is that?! But think about it. These were calculated answers. Take a look at this insight into the homo-triangulation going on in both campaigns:
Clinton and Obama supporters, speaking on condition of anonymity, said both might have been trying to avoid offending socially conservative Democrats, particularly churchgoing African-Americans, who share Pace's views.
Sigh.

At least John Edwards had the cojones to directly answer the question on the first try when Wolf Blitzer asked him about it on The Situation Room:

BLITZER: Let's talk about General Peter Pace, the chairman of the joint chiefs. He suggested today, his own personal opinion, homosexuality, he said, was immoral. As a result, don't change the don't ask, don't tell policy.

First of all, in your opinion, is homosexuality immoral?

EDWARDS: I don't -- don't share that view. And I would go -- go further than that, Wolf. I think the don't ask, don't tell is not working. And as president of the United States I would change that policy.

BLITZER: Is the don't ask, don't tell policy immoral?

EDWARDS: I think the don't ask, don't tell policy is wrong. It's not working. I think what it's done, effectively, is kept us from having some of the most talented people we could have in our military. It's caused -- caused more problems than it's solved. And it ought to be changed.

He also reiterated his position on marriage equality and his struggle with "crossing the bridge" to accept it. See that after the jump.
Pam Spaulding :: Obama and Clinton botch the 'immorality' question; Edwards answers it directly
I see him seemingly inching closer each time it's addressed, but it's sort of like watching paint dry; you don't know if the color you slapped up on the wall is going to resemble what you really wanted. This time around he clearly sees the similarities one can draw between Pace's "excuse" (his upbringing), to Edwards's prior answers about the topic, so look at the last line of this exchange.
BLITZER: I know you've wrestled, because you've said it on several occasions, with the issue of gay marriage.

Tell our viewers whether or not you've come to some sort of firm conclusion whether you support the notion of gay marriage.

EDWARDS: I don't personally support it. But I very strongly support the idea of ending discrimination, of civil unions, of having substantive rights for partners. I think those rights are, in fact, civil rights, and I also might add, I don't think it's the -- it's the role of the government, the federal government, to tell churches what -- what marriages they should bless.

BLITZER: Well, what about in civil ceremonies? What's wrong, in other words -- why are you wrestling with the issue of gay marriage?

EDWARDS: Oh, just because of my own personal life and the culture and the place in which I grew up. It's -- I feel internal conflict about it. And to be perfectly candid about it, it's an issue that I continue to struggle with.

And I -- I think I am like a lot of Americans. I don't -- I want to end discrimination in this country. I want gay and lesbian couples to be treated fairly and with respect and with -- and with dignity.

And -- and I am very troubled about the idea that any president would impose their personal cultural beliefs on the country.

OK. So where does that leave us if he's elected? Interesting, and close, but no cigar. The federal DOMA question still needs to be asked -- would he call for the amendment or repeal of the law?
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Opie Doesn't Fool Me
Edwards getting off onto some tangent about what unions churches bless is a bucket of hogwash.  That is not the issue.

The issue, Opie, if you're reading this... is when two men or two women go to their local city hall in whatever state they live in, and ask for an application for a marriage license.  Should they, or should they not, be given it?
I am sick of you waiting for your pie to dry on the window sill while you pretend you're thinking about it, when actually you are really waiting for the new poll/focus group numbers to come in.

=>The truth usually isn't pretty. Don't blame me for telling it.<=


You Nailed That One, Chadster
Love the pie image.

[ Parent ]
I Have to Correct You, Pam
I'm sorry, but I have to correct you, Pam. Obama did not catch "a bad case of the sHillaries." It has been as plain as day from the very beginning that Bill and Hillary are Obama's political role models.

As for Edwards, I can't say his reply is all that much better than the others'. I'm sure he would not hesitate for one moment to call the expulsion of all African-American members of the military immoral, but the best he can for gay folks is "wrong", i.e., in this context, "not in our best interests," "self-defeating."

I'm still waiting, though, for the courageous politician who proposes banning EVERYONE from the military...


True about Obama
Good-- I'm not the only one who has noticed certain Clintonesque traits in Obama.  That means it's not my imagination.

=>The truth usually isn't pretty. Don't blame me for telling it.<=

[ Parent ]
Jump off the bridge, Edwards
...and I hope you are tied to Clinton and Obama when you do it.

"Well goooolllly, I don't think them homos are immoral.  I just don't think they are worthy.  See?  Big difference!"

It is going to be a long 19 months until we know which idiot wins the race.


After
After what Edwards did to Shakes I have a hard time believing anything he says about morality.  He invited them to join his family and then left on the porch when the crowd came with pitchforks and torches.  Perfect for a guy who wrote a book about homes.

no excuses
for Edwards or the rest of them - I don't imagine that any of the top three candidates would have handled that situation well -- they are politicians, and sorry to say, political self-preservation appears to trump everything else in this generation of pols.

[ Parent ]
John Edward's Integrity & Attitude toward gays...
First of all, unless you folks haven't noticed (forgive my soapbox), we live in puritanical U.S.A., NOT Canada or another  truly industrialized, enlightened nation.  John Edwards seems to have a track record of matching his words with his actions. 

The man comes from a strong Southern Baptist  upbringing, but he has always been a strong voice for OUR RIGHTS, far more than Hillary.  And if you think Obama is a wiser choice, just visit the Southside Chicago church that he has started attending only SINCE he became a U.S. Senator.  I did (I live in Chicago), and felt fortunate to escape with my life intact.  In the name of "god," the Rev. James Meeks presides over a new, 50 million dollar sanctuary in the middle of abject poverty and a sea of public housing nearby, and preaches to 14,000 of Chicago's Southside residents every Sunday, advocating racial separatism, and teaching THE "ABOMINATION" OF HOMOSEXUALITY, and that's putting it nicely.  Wish David Geffin had checked that out before his fundraisers.  Louis Farrikan supports Mr. Obama. 

Those gay brothers and sisters of mine that want to restore democracy to this country, not further a totalitarian regime that denies our rights FURTHER, may wish to investigate John Edwards a bit more. He's not perfect, but he seems to possess integrity, know what he's talking about, inject passion into his platform -- and he cares about our welfare.  It's not empty rhetoric or lies.

SecondCity


[ Parent ]
Is this struggle to be coherent still progress?
I know straight people who are generally supportive of GLBT issues but they sometimes falter and struggle when talking about it.  Being an out lesbian for many years,my close straight friends, having been around me and being subjected to my rants, usually easily discuss GLBT issues, ask me when they are unsure about something, etc.  But for my not-so-close friends, acquaintances, family members, these topics and discussions don't come so easily, even when their underlying beliefs/intentions are generally good. 

It really is a fairly recent development that politicians are now regularly asked to comment on GLBT issues.  I'm not surprised that they flub it; I'm not surprised that they're trying not to offend various constituencies (would they be Democrats otherwise?).  What I ask is do they have the capacity to evolve/change in positive directions.  I think John Edwards shows signs of being able to do so.  Obama, I can't tell.  Hillary, I fear, is a lost cause because she's been at this long enough and I see the same song and dance over and over. 


LIKE I SAID
Last week I brought up the point that Hillary had been courting the GLBT vote by pandering to us with promise of change for us in society if she were elected. I did not have a lot of confidence in her as her husband did the same thing and later took the coward's route when it came to DADT.
The lastest issue of not making a strong stand against Pace's ignorant comments only proves that she will say what ever it takes to keep herself ahead in the polls. Careful consideration should be paid to her actions as we head forward to the next presidential election.

Not trying to spam
Just trying to jump in the conversation here - this post ties in with the Keillor flap:

Well, I guess this is why...
...no leading Democratic contender for a major office will speak unequivocally in favor of marriage equality.  The 'ick' factor remains strong among the generation of Edwards, Clinton and Keillor.  The older the generation, the ickier we are to them.  The mainstream has come far enough to respect our right not to be fired simply for being gay - ENDA may become law in the next couple of years - but by supporting marriage equality that implies that the mainstream will fully integrate us into society.
Ain't gonna happen until the generation of my children (teenagers) are old enough to start making a difference by voting and running for office.  I have confidence in these kids. Clinton, Edwards and Keillor are old school.  Obama is on the cusp but I'm not holding my breath.  He smacks of more the slick politician than great statesman - a younger and far more pleasant sounding Billary Clinton figure.  He's not going to stick his neck out for our issues any more than the aforementioned. I'm already so over the 2008 campaign - they've all lost my support.  Wake me up in five years.  2012 will be much more interesting.


Yes, I agree
when you wrote, "...no leading Democratic contender for a major office will speak unequivocally in favor of marriage equality." 

I honestly don't look for this to happen for 2008 either.  I don't see any frontrunners speaking out unequivocably for marriage equality.  I think that the line for this campaign will be, "I support civil unions...." 

I don't see gay marriage as the boogieman it was in 2004 for the republicans.  One reason, is because of Guliani, I think.  For that, I am grateful.  I'm kind of tired of this issue being used as a wedge issue to divide americans. 


[ Parent ]
But, wouldn't they be for marriage equality if...
they're for civil unions.

After all, the erred assumption is that civil unions and marriage are the same thing but by a different name.

Anyone with a little bit of common sense knows they're not, right?

This goes back to an old discussion that ran here.  If they only want to give us a piece of the whole pie and then sit us down at the kiddie table because we're not grown up enough to get hetero rights, then by god, tell us how you are going to accomplish the impossible!

How will we miraculously be equal citizens with the heteros when the institution THEY deem we are more suited for isn't equal?

This situation of separate and unequal is much more complicated than getting a Dem get in office and then having them say "okey, dokey, queers can have civil unions now."

How, how, how?  That's what I want to know.

In the meantime, I'm just "not there yet" (how's that for honesty?) on supporting any Democrats in any way, shape, or form.  What's good for the goose...


[ Parent ]
"Close, but no cigar"
And Edwards, although not there yet, is the closest. I've had a chance to hear Edwards speak in person and a chance to meet him (briefly) during his short-lived 2004 primary campaign. He still hasn't quite said what I want to hear, but he is at least honest in admitting he isn't "there yet." But I remember thinking, when hearing him in 2004 do a stump speech, "This guy is actually thinking on his feet. He's adapting his stump speech to the questions he's being asked." I worked in radio for years and interviewed a lot of candidates for a lot of offices. Many could not answer a direct question about anything, but would deflect the question and answer an unasked question so they could get back to their boilerplate. Edwards didn't do that. 
Hillary, who I believe should remain doing a fine job as senator for my home state of New York (I've lived in Tennessee for years, but my family is all back in upstate NY), is just not presidential material. She won't "admit" to anything she hasn't vetted with her campaign advisers. Obama, well, I'm not sure there is any "there" there with him. I'll have to wait and see but he is still too Hillary-esque for me at the moment. Great speaking style but no substance. Yet.
Also, while I love this country, I hate the fact of knowing it will not abide having a female or a black (or mixed-race) president. Not yet. Just won't happen. Too much sexism and too much racism still.
What I most want is a Democratic victory in 2008. Neither Clinton nor Obama can make that possible if either is the candidate. It's tragic that in the 21st century race and gender could make the difference, but that's the tragic reality of America.

I don't agree much
with your analysis.  I don't like John Edwards as a candidate.  But mostly, I don't think he has a prayer.  I think both Obama and Hillary have the best shot at becoming the next U.S. president of all the candidates.  I don't see anything at all promising on the republican side and I think that scandal and the Iraq war will continue to plague republicans, making their chances smaller at getting elected. I do think that of all the candidates, Hillary has the most "stuff" when it comes to being presidential material.  Of course, it's early and we have a long way to go before any kind of analysis is really meaningful.  For what it's worth, I haven't heard too many analyses like yours (could be the east coast bubble I'm in) so I found your thoughts unique and interesting.

[ Parent ]
Democrat's choice
For every democrat president wannabe,

You can speak with LGBT voters, campaign workers, donars, and voters OPENLY and HONESTLY...or don't f*ckin' bother.

ANY queer organization who's thinking of justifying, or winking at being disrespected by a candidate...DON'T, we are in NO G*D DAMN MOOD after 6 years of being the object of Bush/Cheney's hatefest.

everyone on the same page now? GOOD!


RIGHT ON!
HEAR, HEAR!

[ Parent ]
Absofreakinlutely!!!!
Hehehe, I said over on the DNC blog that unless these jerks grab their nads and get with it, I may just have to say (in the now infamous words of their Golden Boy, John Edwards) "I'm just 'not there yet' on voting for a Democrat."

And I don't want to hear this crap about being scared to offend the black church-going community...almost my whole office is black and I just came out to two of them the other day.  I was scared out of my mind and still fear something is going to be done to me, but damn it, I won't live like that.  Let what will happen, happen.  If I have the guts to put my life, my health, and my job on the line by coming out, then they can step up to the line and take some hits too.


[ Parent ]
SURVIVOR
I've survived 20 years of AIDS, Katrina, and Bush 43...so Hillary and any other Democrat aren't going to make me break a sweat...if they can't give me an honest open discussion...F*CK EM!

Flip Flip
How is triangulation a sound political strategy when Hillary's campaign keeps having to explain her position? Republicans are going to run campaign ads of her making contradictory statements? I can see her having her Kerry "voted for it before against it" moment.

They all know that old news isn't news
The strategy is to evade the question when the iron is hot.  Then most people forget the whole thing and the candidates can go back and "clarify" for the benefit of not alienating the other part of the possible consituency.  Wingers who just read headlines don't hear the clarifications just like they don't read the headline corrections made in newspapers a day later, hidden on page E6. Answers like these allow the candidates to have it both ways.  They don't piss off the social conservatives or the conservative democrats because they don't really answer the question straight away.  Then later, once the media has moved on to bigger scandals, they can say to the LBGT crowd, "Oh, I just wanted to clarify what I meant...." and it doesn't make one headline.  Social conservaties get to remain blissfully unaware of their stances on these issues, and LGBT people come away from the 'clarification' with a nice warm fuzzy feeling.

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