Ex-gay Randy Thomas torches ex-gay 'therapist' Richard Cohen

It's Like "Springtime for Hitler"

I saw that lengthy Cohen segment on TV the other say, and I got as hysterical as the audience.  I also saw him on the "real news" and Cohen was equally funny; he doesn't need help to cause laughter.  And I don't mean laughter WITH him.  So I disagree with Randy Thomas.  I don't want Cohen to shut up.

=>The truth usually isn't pretty. Don't blame me for telling it.<=

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by: Chadster @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 16:12:03 PM CDT

That video of Cohen with the tennis racquet is precious...

...If he does that too often he'll develop ex-gay tennis elbow.

/tic

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by: raj @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 16:12:31 PM CDT

Definitions

"Richard Cohen does not represent me or thousands like me, who have moved beyond a life defined by being "gay."

I don't get that at all. I'm gay, but that hardly defines my entire life, it's just one facet of the person that I am.

The whole 'ex-gay' thing is so much bullshit; if they were truly trying to follow what they view as Christian law, they would stop lying to themselves and to others admit to the person that they are and remain celibate, rather than pretending that they are cured.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

Douglas Adams - 'The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy'  

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by: Val @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 17:39:18 PM CDT

Definitions

Let's not forget that the Cult of Therapy created the neologism "homosexual" in the 19th C. If a human being could be "homosexual," the Cult of Therapy might have had a case for claiming him/her "pathological" and in need of a "cure." Unfortunately for the Cult, one cannot be "homosexual," an oxymoronic neologism. "Homo" means "same," and sexual means "reproduction by male and female members of the species." Obviously, "homo" cannot be "sexual." The disease is with the word the Cult of Therapy had crafted.

When Gay Liberation demanded "evidence" of a "homosexual pathology and cure" in the 1970s, the Cult of Therapy democratically decided to vote "homosexual" as healthy, lest its lack of evidence, its oxymoronic neologism, and its unproven and unsuccessful "treatments" be exposed for lack of evidence. In 1973, the homosexually-sick became gay-healthy. Some call it "science by evasion." I still prefer to call it a Cult.

Now that 450+ species have been documented to have a same-sex attraction and behave in simulated sexual action, including H. sapiens, clearly no disorder, pathology, sickness, or dysfunction is plausible, much less a "cure" possible, unless Nature itself is pathological. (Natural law theorists, who persist in the Naturalistic Fallacy, better clue-in to Nature's wonders.)

The matter of "definitions," that Cohen and others raise, is a valid point. Why use words that CANNOT define an oxymoron or use an oxymoron to define individuals? That is precisely why "gay" replaced "homosexual." "Homosexual" is linguistic abuse (per J. L. Austin, the philosopher of language). No one is defined by words, moreover, we USE words to describe ourselves or point individuals out (by ostensive denotation). Wittgenstein's "use determines meaning" gives the proper direction of fit, and "homosexual" is unfit for linguistic use.

One "uses" the word "gay" to pick-out a constellation of features that are immensely variable, but at the root of the word is same-sex attraction and same-sex simulated sexual activity. No one claims gays engage in coitus or intercourse, but "fuck" and "suck" capture the engagements a little more accurately. When gays "sex" each other, it's a metaphorical figure of speech, a nominalistic short-hand, for simulated sexual behavior, which Nature finds ubiquitous, and gays find pleasurable, healthy, and thoroughly natural.

To pursue an "ex-gay" strategy, therefore, is unnnatural, unhealthy, and unpleasurable. So, why would anyone be so inept to do so? Oh, I suppose aversion techniques, brainwashing, reparative techniques, repression, sublimation, can act to "off-set" Nature's doings, but it is clearly abnormal, pathological, and sick to try. Perhaps frustration, false-guilt, self-loathing, repressed feelings, self-delusions, etc. have some pay-off. But the pay-off is definitely "sick." It's a perversion of a natural endowment by artificial torture and Pavlov's operant conditioning to subvert nature for some metaphysical ideal that is merely "a face in the clouds," an illusion, a fantasy, a diversion, and other misdirections. The "evidence" overwhelmingly demonstrates an inordinately-high recidivism into nature.

Like the Cult of Therapy, the Metaphysicians of Mind, and the Deity Peddlers, it's all quite senseless, not simply a "linguistic" abuse. When recidivism occurs, hopefully the "damage" done by these abuses will recede into history, but some folk are really damaged for life. For what? Defining the preposterous into something non-existent?

Blog: Cultural, philosophical, political, economic, and evolutionary commentary on current events and gay men and their lifestyles

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by: Gay Species @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 17:38:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

i'm sure each organization would stress

that there is no one proven or completely effective method to put a person on the road to becoming straight. 

i don't care about what methods they use, i just wish they would be honest about what their real INTENTIONS are so we can have an open dialogue on this subject instead of playing pretense all the time.  it's obvious: the only people buying this crap are the people who don't like gays in the first place.  otherwise, where are the homocamps that homosexualize straight people?  it's not about making a "choice" in the way they've termed the word. 

however, they can teach you to "choose" to shift the way you behave, to "choose" to suppress your impulses towards members of your own sex, right?  they will teach you to "choose" to conform to manmade gender roles and to push away everything that might be considered queer.  and wouldn't that be a lot easier for everyone to understand?  to be truthful and proclaim that it's not about "choice" or "change", at least not in the way they've historically sold it? 

that video clip from the montel williams show with alan chambers a few days back was interesting--alan kept stressing over and over that exodus doesn't have the ability to change people, that people have to choose the path they want for their life.  and he was absolutely right--it DOES come down to a choice, ultimately.  do you want to have sex with another man, or do you want to spend 9 months trying to get an erection over your new wife's naked body? 

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 17:55:35 PM CDT

Clowns seeking $$$

That's all these exgays are.  Clowns who can't get a regular job so they decide to go "ex gay" and make $money, lots of it!  $$$$

The saddest part of all this:  the young gays & lesbians who fall for these LIES.

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by: Juan @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 17:57:43 PM CDT

Well Juan

Their "movement" has a definate shelf life and the ex-gay crowd knows this.

I don't seriously believe that in 20 years any ex-gay spokesperson will be able to make any sort of living off of this particular trade.

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by: Scott @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 18:37:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

One of the funniest things I've ever seen

Sascha Baron Cohen's character Bruno interviewing "Pastor Quinn" (available on UTube) is absolutely a scream. Listen to Pastor Quinn sincerely answer the question about whether it's true that it's okay to admire a man's penis in the shower but once he puts it in his mouth he's crossed some kind of line? And why is being gay so out this season? Even "being fabulous" is nicht-nicht as it happens. I've never seen the freaking fools these so-called pastors are made so expertly obvious.

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by: Livia @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 20:12:15 PM CDT

Make the sale

So many of these things read like infomercials. Snake oil comes in many forms and there's obviously a market niche for this.  In the end, it's not about salvation, but about making money, that it's off others' misfortunes is a mere detail.

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by: Brian @ Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 00:12:11 AM CDT

No Standards Of Care For SSAD

We followed up Jim Burroway's piece on the Ex-Gay Watch with No Standards Of Care For SSAD.

Jim stated the problems in his article; we followed up with an examination of "Same Sex Attraction Disorder" (SSAD) -- by that name or any other name by which ex-gay affirming organizations like NARTH and/or PATH want to label this "condition." These organization don't have any published standards of care to define "appropriate," evidence-based clinical practice/treatment guidelines -- which would be guidelines for the conversion therapies -- for folk that are diagnosed with "SSAD."

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~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau

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by: Autumn Sandeen @ Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 05:03:23 AM CDT

ohhhh my

Lover's quarrels can get sooo messy.

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by: HDBiker @ Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 05:58:48 AM CDT

The Besen/Cohen Video

It's still avaliable on Comedy Central

Part 1 http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/jason_jones/index.jhtml?playVideo=83951

Part 2 http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/jason_jones/index.jhtml?playVideo=83951

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by: Mike in Texas @ Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 09:33:09 AM CDT