Joe Murray: anti-Catholic rhetoric tolerated within the American Family Association

by: Pam Spaulding

Mon May 07, 2007 at 06:00:00 AM EDT

One eye-opening experience for Joe during his tenure at the AFA was the tolerance of anti-Catholicism within its ranks (Joe is Catholic). He found a strong belief among some of these "Christians" that Catholics are not Christian and need to be saved. This from an organization that is quite dependent on filling its coffers with contributions from conservative Catholics, who sidle up to the AFA because of its anti-gay stance. I asked Joe to talk about his experience (Tim Wildmon is up in arms over any discussion of the AFA appearing to condone anti-Catholic views). Emphasis below is mine.

Pam Spaulding: One matter that has been quite controversial about the evangelical movement is its treatment of Catholicism. While the "pro-family" organizations work hard to sidle up to socially conservative Catholics, taking advantage of the anti-gay rhetoric of the current Pope to fill their coffers. However, there's still an uneasy relationship -- this is particularly true in the South, where you'll find that many evangelicals don't even consider Catholics to be Christian. You've experienced that bias personally. Tell us about that, and what do you see is the larger issue here?

Joe Murray: Pam, your question brings up a very good point-while many politically active evangelical organizations are more than happy to collect Catholic dollars, they have absolutely no intention of giving credence to Catholic dogma. Make no mistake; it has been my experience that the marriage between traditional Catholics and evangelical Protestants is a marriage of convenience, not conviction. Let me explain.

A few weeks back when you published our first interview about my change of heart over gay rights, I knew that I would ruffle the feathers of my former colleagues. A number of these folks, whom I still consider friends, have been fighting the "homosexual agenda" for so long that the lies they were told have become truths, thus making it hard to understand how I could adopt this new position.

I anticipated that my proclamations over homosexuality would be challenged and I would be tossed in the same boat as Benedict Arnold. This, however, did not happen, at least to my face. What did happen, though, is telling.

Shortly after our interview was published, I received an email from Tim Wildmon, President of the American Family Association. Let me first state that I do not have a problem with Tim, nor do I hold any personal animosity towards him. I have worked with him, interviewed him a few times, and understand that he has some impressive insights. This, however, does not give him "get out of criticism free" card.

Tim's first email to me expressed concern over the license plate comment, which I addressed in our second interview. Tim, however, sent a second email that dealt directly with the issue of Catholicism, evangelicals and the South.

Specifically, Tim was upset over a comment I made in relation to your question over how evangelicals would treat Mitt Romney, since Mitt is a Mormon. In responding to your question, I expressed doubt that evangelicals could embrace Romney's Mormonism because evangelicals have many issues with Catholicism.

As a side note, Tim did not necessarily disagree with this position as he explained in his email, "Now as for the Morman [sic] church, they have a whole different theological teaching than do Catholics or Protestants. It's not even close. And Morman's [sic] agree their religion is different than traditional Christianity that is why they try and convert us to the LDS. This does not mean they are bad people, quite the contrary, most are good people who live clean and are patriotic. The kind of people you would like to have as neighbors. And for some that is a consideration when voting for a president. It would not prevent me from voting for Mitt Romney but it might some other Christians and if you understood Morman [sic] theology (and perhaps you do) you would understand why Christians might hesitate. Mormans [sic] believe God is a physical being on a planet for instance and that one day we all will have our own planet, like God, if we are good Mormans [sic]. And on and on."

Back to the concerns of anti-Catholicism, I referenced a devotional in which a major player in the AFA ministry, commenting on his recent mission trip to Spain, stated there were not many Christians in Spain, just Catholics.

Tim initially tried to split hairs explaining the comment was "something to the effect that there were Catholics in Spain but very few Christians." This, though, was not a accurate characterization as to what was said. Tim then added, "We have hired many Catholics over the years including Joe Murray? Take us on where you want to Joe, but didn't think you were the type person to just make things up."

In response to Tim's email, I wrote, "During that devotion he said that? Spain was in need of missionaries because there weren't many Christians there, just Catholics. That is what he said... period?We all know what he said and what he meant."

I also added, "And Tim, many of your employees do not consider Catholics to be Christians. This I know from experience. And just because you hire Catholics does not mean that all is okay. If people in positions of influence hold beliefs that Catholics are not Christians, they can influence policy, etc." The exchange, however, was not over.

Tim wrote back stating, "That is one statement from one person at one meeting and we all know there are countries and places where there is a dominate religion practiced but the people have not really been personally converted to faith in Jesus Christ. (Name concealed) could have just as easily have said about a trip to Georgia, 'There were plenty of Baptists but there are very few Christians.'"

But the problem was that this AFA official did not say anything about Baptists, he singled out Catholics and this smacked of the anti-Catholic bigotry that is prevalent in the South. While at AFA I was asked repeatedly by employees if "I knew Jesus," "If I was saved," "If I knew where I was going if I should die tonight," and all of these questions, I cannot help but believe, were targeted at me because I was young and because I was Catholic.

A number of AFA's evangelicals consistently asked me to "visit their church," and repeatedly told my friends, behind my back, of course, that they planned on "saving me." It was brought to my knowledge that a person who I thought was a friend approached a high ranking AFA employee, who was also my friend, and gave a book to this person on how to bring the message of Christ to Catholics. The book was delivered to this person because we were close friends and the evangelical thought this person would be able to best influence me. This is not the behavior of people who believe Catholics are Christians.

All the while, Tim pointed out in our email exchange that "AFA cannot take responsibility for how the Catholic Church is viewed in the South," he also diminished the prejudice against Catholics by adding, "Which I think, quite frankly, you are basing on an old stereotype."

Make no mistake, I never said that AFA was "responsible" for anti-Catholic bigotry, nor did I ever say that Tim or Don Wildmon were anti-Catholic. I did say that there are some employees that hold anti-Catholic beliefs and some of those employees are in positions that can possibly influence policy.

To write this problem off as an "old stereotype," testifies to the artificial relationship between Catholics and evangelicals. The fact that Catholics aren't view as Christian is not a point of concern, so long as checks keep coming in.

As Tim wrote to me, "Our current survey of where AFA's support comes from is showing Southern Baptists # 1 and Catholics # 2. If AFA was so anti-Catholic you would think our RC supporters would have picked up on over the years and stop writing us checks?"

Such a response leads me to believe that there is no incentive to combat anti-Catholic bigotry if the checks keep rolling in. Rather, there is an incentive to refrain combating such bigotry, for Catholics are still sending in money regardless of the inaction and defending Catholics could upset Evangelicals, thus stemming the cash flow from this group. So, the status quo wins the day. And I fear this might apply to most evangelical organizations.

And further, I do believe that AFA has a duty to combat anti-Catholicism if it wishes to sell itself as a Christian organization. AFA cannot just sit idly by and say there is nothing it can do. That is pure Hogwash.

The fact of the matter is simple-even if the AFA employee's devotional was not the position of AFA, AFA had a moral responsibility to condemn that comment. No such action was taken. Rather, the silence was deafening. And to defend its lack of inaction by saying the organization has hired Catholics is just as effective as Texaco saying it was not racist because it had some blacks on the payroll.

Again, I know Tim & Don and I believe that they are not anti-Catholic. But just because the two highest figures in the organization are not anti-Catholic, does not mean that such bigotry does not exist within the four walls of AFA. By falling to address the issue and take a stand for Catholics, condemning all forms of anti-Catholic bigotry, AFA helps to fuel such bigotry.. And if they have taken stands against anti-Catholic bigotry, stands I am unaware of, I welcome them to inform me and I will reconsider my position.

***

What I like about Joe is his ability to engage on the difficult issues we discuss here in a civil manner; he is open to other points of view, and looks for solutions and bridges to discussion rather than simply turning the blowtorch on. While we don't agree on some issues -- I'll have a Q&A on reproductive freedom soon that illuminates that (I'm still answering the questions he posed to me) -- he's coming from a place of personal honesty, which is more than you can say for the folks running the show at the AFA.

Related:
* Former AFA columnist Joe Murray speaks out against homophobia and hypocrisy
* Part 2: Former AFA columnist Joe Murray answers your questions
* Joe Murray smokes the religious right on hate crimes legislation
* Poor Tim