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Reason #4185 why Religion Sucks

by: RadicalRuss

Wed May 23, 2007 at 21:31:43 PM EDT


BAGHDAD ? The video is shaky, but the brutality is clear.

A slender, black-haired girl is dragged in a headlock through a braying mob of men. Within seconds, she is on the ground in a fetal position, covering her head in her arms in a futile attempt to fend off a shower of stones.

Someone slams a concrete block onto the back of her head. A river of blood oozes from beneath her long, tangled hair. The girl stops moving, but the kicks and the rocks keep coming, as do the victorious shouts of the men delivering them.

In the eyes of many in her community in northern Iraq, 17-year-old Duaa Khalil Aswad's crime was to love a boy from another religion. She was a Yazidi, an insular religious sect. He was a Sunni Muslim. To Aswad's uncle and cousins, that was reason enough to put her to death last month in the village of Bashiqa.

Sorry, Duaa.  You just have to die, because you love a boy who has the wrong Invisible Superfriend.  Our Invisible Superfriend who made us all and loves us all and created this "religion of peace" just can't stand it when you kiss a boy with the wrong Invisible Superfriend, so we have to kill you (Invisible Superfriend is far too busy to do it Himself).
RadicalRuss :: Reason #4185 why Religion Sucks
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And the scary thing is
I have a feeling I'm going to see this on Fox or somewhere as evidence that we should be afraid of the "Islamification" of the world.

<3 Sam

Well what the fuck else is it?
Christianity doesn't advocate this sort of horror. Only Islamofascists do.

[ Parent ]
No, not at all
Just like it doesn't advocate slavery, killing your kids because they lip off, or killing queers.

The only difference between Christofascists and Islamofascists is that the Christofascists try to use "civilized" ways to fuck over those with whom they disagree.


[ Parent ]
Poor comparison
I don't know of any Christian teaching that says gays should be killed, but Islam teaching does say that.

You people cheapen REAL horrific behavior when you raise a fuss at every little thing.


[ Parent ]
Christian teaching about killing others:
Leviticus 20:13:  If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. 

In other words, your holy book says kill the gags.

In Kings 15:11-12

As Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord, he took away the sodomites out of the land.

(I guess this is where good right wing Christians get their idea of "putting the fags on an island and then nuking the island")

You keep saying that the Bible does not encourage Christians to go against people of other faiths, but it does:

(from Deuteronomy)7:3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.  God forbids marriages with those of other tribes. [He makes an exception for Moses, though (Num.12:1, 9-10).] 
7:4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.  (If you do show any mercy to such strangers, "give your daughters to any of them, or "take" any of their daughters, then you'll get God so angry that he'll "destroy thee suddenly." )
7:5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.  (Destroy the altars, images, and places of worship of those with different religions. )
7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. (We're Christians, so we are soooooo much better than you.)

Josh, you are bearing false witness when you say your Bible does not show as much violence as the Koran.  I know you are proud of your religion, but denying the violence and bloodshed in your own holy book makes you look foolish.  The Bible gives Christians as much leeway to wreak havok as does the Koran to Muslims.  Stop acting so goddamned precious.


[ Parent ]
Oh wow. More Old Testament passages.
Seems like we've already been over this. More Old Testament readings to try to make a case for violence. Been addressed and discarded.  Why do I have to get all the especially slow liberals?

[ Parent ]
Try using real words
"Islamofascist?"  Geez, Josh, did you borrow Rush's dictionary?  Why not throw a "feminazi" from the "Democrat" party in, too, while you're at it?

Fascist is a melding of corporate and state interests.  Islam is the surrender of all worldly interests in order to serve the will of Allah.  Seems to me that "Islamofascist" makes as much linguistic sense as "compassionate conservative".

Here's the deal, Josh.  Christofascists (if I may) live in a society that has incredible wealth, relative security, and a usually decent police force.  Don't think there aren't plenty of them who'd be stoning adulterers if they could get away with it.  Islam isn't the only religion of violent conflicts, just the last to "grow up" (for example, look to Northern Ireland finally getting over the whole Catholic/Protestant thing).

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
As I said in my last post
..when you try to make a few people's words equivalent to genuine bloodshed, you trivialize the really bad stuff. Leftwingers do that all the time, I've noticed.

Sending emails (Foley is as bad as humping a subordinate (Clinton)

Telling what somebody else said that is still likely true (SOTU reference to Niger and yellowcake) is as bad as lying under oath (Clinton).

Telling the truth about a financial interest you severed (Frist) is worse than the FBI finding $90,000 of stolen money in your freezer. (Jefferson).

See the point here?


[ Parent ]
Seriously?
Josh, what world do you live in? Have you never heard of the Crusades? The Inquisition? Perhaps you might enjoy Louis Crompton's "Homosexuality & Civilization?" Feast your eyes on the Terror behind the Plagues! The Root of Evil! The Sin the Cries for Vengeance. And the medievals were more enlightened than today's "Evangelicals." Falwell, Robertson, and Sheldon would be the Anti-Christ! But gays would still be the root of all evil.

[ Parent ]
We aren't talking about 700 years ago.
I spoke in the present tense.

[ Parent ]
Then feast your eyes
On Westboro Baptist Church, Free Republic, "Left Behind: Eternal Forces."  Yes these people are the Fringe of your movement but they still advocate killing in the name of your "lord."

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
"But they aren't real Christians!"
If they don't somehow fit into Josh's all powerful, all-benevolent view of Christianity, then they aren't Christian.

[ Parent ]
(Sigh) We've been over this before.
People can and do say they are anything they choose. It doesn't make it so.

[ Parent ]
Thought the sect sounded familiar
It's not Islamic, although it reflects Islamic influences.

http://en.wikipedia....

From what I read, endogamy is strictly enforced.  It doesn't excuse this sort of brutality, though.


Definitely there is evil to go around
What these cousins and uncles did is another sign of how extreme religion poisons thought and how one's own family members are the frequently the ones who carry out the punishment.

Then the neo-cons, as you said, will use this as justification for their false war, even while ignoring that their conservativism promotes the same kind of ideological violence of one family member upon another. Parental notification laws, permission slips for Gay straight alliances, ex-gay camps encouraging parents to send in kids by force - all these things are the wave to make sure that parents are empowered to do the dirty work of promoting "family values". Human spirits and lives are destroyed, but they keep their eyes on the scripture or the ideology and its all good.

Of course, parents who committ these crimes can be viewed as victims of misinformation themselves, particularly having intolerant ubringing from granny and granpa. But who wants to blame poor old them? Maybe we ALL have Alzheimers


my heart goes out to Duaa
but this just goes to prove that there is a mentality of "my god" is superior to your god.

and the crowd in the US that keeps trying to be holier than thou is a threat to this country.

Duaa, rest in peace...I hope you were able to enjoy what love you had while you were alive.

For the rest of the general populace of the US...I love my boyfriend...what is so wrong about that?  How does my love for my boyfriend threaten your marriages?

I am not going to seduce your husband to be gay.  If your husband has bisexual tendencies, he needs to deal with them outside of my relationship.

Most gay guys don't want to get involved with married men because they bring a lot of closeted messed up emotions to the  relation.

For the holier than thou crowd, there is a difference between religious marriage and civil marriage, get a clue, please.


Religion DOES NOT SUCK
It is the perversion of the religion and man's misguided interpretations that suck.  Human-kind manggles the message of the creator in such a way that the creator does not and could not recognize it.

One can have that ole time religion and NOT have the bigotry and hatred that has permeated the culture.  But I suppose it's easier to paint with a broad brush, rather than to place the blame on the perversion of religion by the less than perfect mankind.  But it does a disservice to all of US who have a religous conviction and to those who support us who share those religions.

Fanaticism is not the equivalant to Religion, the former is a mental disorder.

 

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY


I can buy that
I feel that I can be cool with religiousness without fanaticism. I really think people are entitled to their religions, as long as they don't act fanatical. That said, I really love the rigorous rationalism of the atheist. But ultimately, religion is OK as long as we can weed out the bad message applications by people.

Having my cake and eating it too? He, he


[ Parent ]
Spirituality, Good; Religion, Sucks
Religion DOES TOO suck.  I'm not buying the "perversion of religion" angle; it's been used too often to justify too much.

Religion is the idea that YOU have the TEH TRUTH.  The only difference between your so-called "extremists" and you is that they really, truly believe that God thinks this or that and God really wants them to act on it.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Does NOT (NYAH) :)
Religion is the idea that you have the truth as it pertains to YOU AND YOUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CREATOR.

You don't have to buy the "perversion of religon" angle, but you shouldn't discount it simply because it seems to be overused.

There are many people of a religous nature that believe that God in Infinite Wisdom finds a way to reach each individual based on their needs.  Thus making the tenants of many religions viable as "the" answer for the individual, but not neccesarilly the whole.  It is in fact the perversions of the message that sucks, in that Humans, being imperfect by nature tend to make mistakes and over reach and misinterpret the tenants of GOD.  One also has to look to the historical context of how religions and their guiding books were put together.  Most religions were co-opted by political figures and distorted from their true origins, thus making it the bastardization of Religion the culprit and not Religion in and of itself. (Biblicly speaking one only has to look as far back as Constantine ala 330 AD to see that it was the ruling class that edited and pared back the Bible in order to manipulate the masses and form a relationship between religion and Politics...

Do you believe that those in the Metropolatin Community Church suck?  They are a Religous Church that embraces GLBT people and those of different ethnicities.

It is mankinds failings that have messed up the message of GOD not Religion in and of itself.

I also really do find it a disservice to those of us who are GLBT that have religous convictions to paint us all with the Fred Phelps Brush (It is the extremeists in any religion that muck up the ideals and the message).

It is difficult enough in this world that I have to battle the Organizations to respect that God has a plan for me and that God can have a place in my life without having to battle those I stand with on a daily basis in regards to my being able to have a belief in a Religion and the GOD of my liking.

Sweeping statements like the one you posted make it VERY difficult for those of us who believe in God, and the particular tenants of our religions, but also believe that God made us Gay and there is nothing wrong with that.

I just have grown weary of fighting both sides from the middle.  GAY and a loving God (as well as Religion-unperverted) are not mutually exclusive.

And I do agree that what happened to this young woman is in fact horrible.  I've avoided the video on the news because I have hated that Humans can pervert the word of God in such abysmal ways.

The perversion of religion is much like the perversion of science.  But that perversion doesn't make the HONEST outlook wrong.


The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY


[ Parent ]
You have to look at what the specific religion teaches.
It is the typical whiny atheist copout to say 'all religions suck'. The religions that suck are those like these middle eastern sects that preach violence.  Christianity does not do that.  People who lie about what a religion teaches in order to justify their violence do not negate the virtue of that religion. I wish you liberal fucks would understand this very simple concept.

[ Parent ]
Josh, every other person you meet is a liberal.
In the meat world, do you call them all "liberal fucks"?  Or are you cyber-grumpy? 

Regarding virtue and violence, you just dispense verbal violence.  No virtue.  Doesn't Jesus make you want to be a better man?  Seriously.  Or are you just a bag of sloshing invective?

Blessed are the peacermakers, Josh.  Jesus went berserk once in His life.  Otherwise, he was the dove of love.  Let's hear you coo, Josh. 

You. 

Can. 

Do. 

It.

Shuck your crust of machismo and be a gentleman. 


[ Parent ]
Sweetie, Josh generally responds in similar tones
to the folks who address him. By speaking one's language, they better understand you. I just believe in leaving no doubt about the message I am conveying.

"Some people you have to knock down in order to get their attention" --my dad


[ Parent ]
Ah, so you Dad was/is a violent man and thus you learned violence.
Break the chain, Josh.  Become a better man.  Follow the Christ's example.  As far as your message, to me it's a jumble of 'fucks' and 'sucks.'  I'll channel you:

'Fuck you, you liberal fucks.  You suck, you fucking fucks.' -- Josh, alleged follower of the Prince of Peace 


[ Parent ]
My dad's quote is a figure of speech, hon.
He was not a violent man, just as the great Josh is nonviolent.

[ Parent ]
Josh speaks of himself in the 3rd person
I believe, with all of my heart, that Lurleen the Elder is a very special person too.  She would tell you so herself, if she deigned to stoop to the common level of first person.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.


[ Parent ]
I thought he meant Josh Waterman
he did say "the great Josh".

THE Josh is nonviolent? REALLY?

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
THE Josh
Am I good?  Sure!  Great?  More of a work in progress.

THE Josh (or "Jingo Josh")is obviously aping the less attractive habits of his pill-popping idol, Rush, i e creating an honorific for himself.  Unfortunately, Jingo Josh doesn't have a fan base. 

It worries me when others speak of themselves in the third person.  One day, while telling his reflection how great he is and how he is soooo much better than "fucking liberals," his delicate little mind will snap in two.  Suddenly, his reflection will start telling him awful things, and next thing we know, Jingo Josh will be trolling New York City with a bag full of homemade pumpkin-shaped bombs, looking for Spider-man.


[ Parent ]
Nope, I'm THE Josh,
dumbfuck. The clown you are talking about is Josh plus a last name. I'm the only 'Josh'. Got it now?

[ Parent ]
already addressed
Please, see comment from Sat May 12, 2007 at 11:27:49 AM EDT

Electricity's for light bulbs!

[ Parent ]
Little logic guys
My dear friends, religion can never be benign, never be pluralistic, never tolerant. It's the nature of the beast for all religions to claim the "truth" by the "divine." If divinely true, then no other possibility is allowed. What truth allows falsehood? End of discussion.

As Walter Lippmann wrote over 70 years ago, religion by its nature is forced into a dichotomy: Either (A) it is true, which then allows no falsehoods, or (B) it is false, which then something else is true. If (A), then not (B). If (B), then not-(A). Simple logic of the disjunction.

With God's "truth" and stamp of approval/disapproval, to boot!


[ Parent ]
Atheists do the exact same thing they accuse everybody else of doing
Atheism is a religion that says all other religions are wrong. So I really don't see your beef.

[ Parent ]
Actually you're wrong
My version of atheism tells me that my beliefs are just as valid as yours as are Osama Bin Laden's as were Mahatma Ghandi's as are Anton Levey's.  What does that mean?  It means that neither you, I, or anyone else has the absolute truth because we could all be right, or we could all be wrong, or one of us right and all of us wrong.  I simply don't know.  In the mean time, I'll keep my beliefs and you can keep yours, but just like that, keep yours, I don't want them.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
But you atheists never follow your own advice
You are hell-bent on promulgating your religion to all corners. No thanks. One USSR was enough.

[ Parent ]
hell-bent?
Well, I personally don't bring up religion first.  It's when someone throws their religion at me that I have to put up my defense shields and say "Hey!  *three snaps round the word* Leave me and my beliefs or lack thereof alone!"

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
I think religion has very little to do with it...
...it is just another device that lets humans act out all manner of atrocities against one another.

If it wasn't religion, it'd be something else.

Just as religion can be used to bring enlightenment and compassion, it can also be used to bring destruction.  It just depends on whose using it for what purpose.

Saying religion sucks is indeed very broad.

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best day and night to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight and never stop fighting." -E.E. Cummings


[ Parent ]
Yep, Religion Sucks Bigime, and Not in a Good Way
It's dumb and dangerous, and artificially divides people who otherwise wouldn't be adversaries.  It is not a coincidence that the few remaining percent that is still in Bush's corner is the hard-core religious and uneducated.  Saying that religion is just peachy until people corrupt it is like saying cancer is just dandy until it spreads.  From the get-go, organized religion is run by the cynical to control the gullible.  One could argue that is no secret to the Republican National Committee, or to Kentucky Fried Hillary when her voice mysteriously changes in black churches.

=>The truth usually isn't pretty. Don't blame me for telling it.<=

You know...
...it is commentary like this which helps to engender hatred.  Instead of limiting your remarks to the abuse of religion or extremism, you blast the deeply held beliefs of BILLIONS of people with assinine comments like "Invisible Superfriend".  My faith didn't kill this girl, nor did that of my Jewish co-worker, or that of my Muslim neighbor.  Yet with this you include ALL of us in the evil that was committed against this girl.  Do you really think that any of us who are not of the extremist fringe and believe in God, regardless of what faith tradition, are celebrating this or any of the other so-called "honor killings"?  How stupid can you be?

If there was a loving Christian God
He wouldn't allow this.  As well as allow rape, murder, hurricanes, tonadoes, planes into skyscrapers, Hitler's, Falwell's ect.
Must not be one.

Make alot of noise. Life is short.

[ Parent ]
Let's see some resumes
Exactly. If I were a believer, I'd demand a better god. The one my parents tried to foist upon me is utterly incompetent.

~piXel


[ Parent ]
Then you could kiss free will goodbye
Even so, that's not relevant here.  This isn't an argument about theism vs. atheism.  I respect the fact that some people do not believe in God, others do not share my own faith in God, etc.  What bothers me is the asinine comment which started this post.  I am no more part of what these  a-holes did than RadicalRuss is part of the crimes of the atheist USSR or PRC.

[ Parent ]
No war was fought in the name of "atheism"
Stalin may have been an atheist, but that was not the cause of the Russian revolution.  Hitler started out as a Christian and used "jews killed Christ" for his own power.  He believed in astrology, and most atheists reject supernatural belief in any manner.  Atheism is about reason of thought and scientific evidence.

Make alot of noise. Life is short.

[ Parent ]
Actually it was.
The denunciation of traditional religions was a big precept with the Bolsheviks.

[ Parent ]
And I suppose
We won the Cold War because we put "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, "In God We Trust" on our money and as our National Motto?

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
Yes, but then
we started giving too many rights to the feminists and the atheists and the homos and we lost our protective shield of faith.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
Pagans!
You can't forget them durned pagans, what with their luring women from their husbands, teaching them witchcraft, and turning them into lesbians.  That's a sure way to get a plane run through the side of one of your buildings!

[ Parent ]
Hey! Leave us out of it! :-)
(grumble grumble) Less than 1% of the population and we are getting blamed for all sorts of stuff.

[ Parent ]
We won the cold war because
the USSR in its innate atheist selfishness did not have a government that allowed people freedom and prosperity. Rather, the citizens were repressed and unproductive. The United States with its conservative principles of freedom and capitalism outstripped the godless Soviet fucks in every measure of progress possible. As a result, they couldn't keep up and the godless state was dismantled. You liberals can only suppress freedom for so long.

[ Parent ]
You mean
Like the Christian Sharia law you'd like to impose on all of us "godless" liberal tax-paying law abiding citizens?

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
Blasting deeply held beliefs
You and billions can hold your beliefs as deeply as you wish, that doesn't make your superfriends any less invisible.

I do not think you nor any of the 96% of pseudo-rational religious people are celebrating a religion-based honor killing.  However, by saying that those extremists are "abusing" religion or taking religion to an "extreme", you provide cover to those very extremists by legitimizing their excuse for misbehavior.

For example, some religious "extremists" who "abuse" religion read Leviticus 18:22 and take that as their excuse to beat up and kill gay people.  So people like you will say, "Well, that Bible verse doesn't mean you should beat and kill gay people and the people who think that are extremists who abuse religion!" and in the same breath you'll say "love the sinner, hate the sin" or "the Bible is the Word of God."  Both of you believe your Invisible Superfriend wrote a book that says gays are abominations; the "extremists" just take the book more seriously than you do.

The problem is religion.  Like the old W.C. Fields joke, we've already established what you are, now we're just haggling about the price.

Personally, I'm just tired of having to coddle and tiptoe around plain facts, scientific truths, and observable reality just because it may offend any one of billions of people's Invisible Superfriends.  Until the human race can escape the intellectual immaturity of literal belief in miracles and religion, we'll never reach a place where we can coexist peacefully.

We have a president who literally believes that all Jews and non-Born-Again Christians are going to Hell and the end of the world is coming soon in a fiery Middle Eastern Armageddon.  Do you suppose that informs his Middle East policy just a touch?

We live in a country where a large majority of the population literally believe there are invisible angels flying around us all the time.  Do you suppose that might have something to do with us falling behind India and China in math and science?

We live in a world where each country and each continent is infected with contradictory shared mass delusions that insist they are the Chosen People of God Who Possess the Truth, that their God loves Them and Hates The Infidels, and that the greatest commandment is to love thy neighbor as one loves thyself... except when it is necessary to kill thy neighbor because he believes in the wrong God.  Do you suppose that might have something to do with millennia of wars and Crusades and Inquisitions and imperialism and colonialism and genocide?

(And before you bring up Pol Pot or Stalin, yes, atheists do shitty things, too.  But for every shitty atheist you can name, I can name three-to-five shitty Christians, Muslims, and Jews.)

To not recognize that it is religion at the heart of the problem and to minimize it by limiting it to extremist religion is somewhat like when the NRA tries to minimize the gun control issue -- guns don't kill people, people kill people.  Yeah, but the gun sure helped!  Similarly, religions don't kill people, extremists kill people... but the religion sure helped!  It's hard to be one of the 0.003% of religious extremists if there aren't 96% of the religious moderates who keep the religion alive.

As for "How stupid can [I] be?"  Not so stupid as to misspell "asinine" or believe a three-day-dead corpse can reanimate and float up into the sky, I suppose...

Religion is the idea that you have laws and authority higher than that of the society in which you live.  Until mankind can recognize that mankind is its own highest moral authority, religious strife and killing will continue.

By the way, I'm not the only guy who blasts the deeply held religious beliefs of billions of people...

"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad, and that is my religion." -Abraham Lincoln

"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." -George Washington

"And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter. " -Thomas Jefferson

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religions in it." -John Adams

"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose." -William Shakespeare

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg, winner of the 1979 Nobel Prize in physics

"Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis." -Pierre Laplace, to Napoleon, on why his works on celestial mechanics do not mention God

"Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church, but they were truly religious men because of their faith in the orderliness of the universe." -Albert Einstein

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature." -Thomas Jefferson

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to Liberty." -Thomas Jefferson

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My mind is my own church.  All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish [Muslim], appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." -Thomas Paine

"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion." -L. Ron Hubbard



"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
Oh sweet.
Harping on a misspelled word followed by atheist drivel?  Ok, that makes this a pointless exercise. 

[ Parent ]
Religion is a contagious disease.
Be careful.  Thinking reduces your chances of catching this particular plague.  But, once you have it, it stops a thinking mind.

There is no God.  And, if there were, He would have to be one sick POS to not lend us a hand -- help us every now and then -- as it is, IF He were to exist, He is the worst, most pathetic absentee Father of all time, the quintessential deadbeat Dad.


Fear is a disease
Anti-religious bigotry is still bigotry. You don't have to be religious or like religion, but when you start using that sort of sweeping language, you are in danger of the same irrational behaviour that you see out of many religions.

What should we do to contain this plague? Burn holy books? Lock up priests? Quarantine congregations? We should be promoting love and tolerance, not stirring up fear.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
No, it is not bigotry
Anti-religious bigotry.  Hmm.  I think not.

Now, if I were to start a business and put up a "No Christians Allowed" sign, that would be anti-religious bigotry.  But to merely state, "Hey, that whole idea of a three-day-dead corpse re-animating and floating bodily into the sky?  That's horseshit," is merely stating what should be obvious to anyone with a passing knowledge of biology.

I think the Green Bay Packers are the greatest football team in the history of the NFL.  You think it is the Chicago Bears and yell "Green Bay Sucks!" at me.  Does that make you an anti-Packers bigot?  No, at least not uintil you're kicking me out of the bar for my Favre jersey or beating up me and my family for wearing green and gold.

I promote love and tolerance.  I strongly believe in your right to believe in any Invisible Superfriend you wish.  The domain within your skin is your sovereign territory.  But the problem exists when you try to force that delusion upon me and my country and insist that any questioning of your delusion is bigotry.

What to do about it?  I suggest state-funded education for any person who wants it up through Master's Degree level.  Higher education is the ultimate cure for irrational religion.  Second, as someone else commented, I suggest that you so-called religious "moderates" start cleaning your religious house and policing the extremists rather than getting upset at those of us who point out your similarities.

I remember a time way back when people talked about being tolerant and accepting of religion, way back when religious folks were considered the "Silent Majority" and were openly considered to be kooky at best and dangerous at worst.  We were tolerant enough to see Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson rise from piddly-ass country preachers to influential leaders in million-dollar cathedrals, preaching hate and intolerance of anyone who doesn't buy into their Invisible Superfriend. 

Now, thanks to being tolerant and accepting of religion, some of our presidential candidates feel they have to kow-tow to these babbling biblical literalists, call for writing discrimination against gays into the Constitution, deny the human causes of global warming, deny the science of biological change (evolution), and work to put women back in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant.

So, sorry, no more Mr. Nice Atheist.  If we become any more tolerant and accepting of religion, we'll be praying in school, funding churches with tax dollars, and rounding up people like me for the re-education camps.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Well if that's the case Russ
there are far more of us, even if our beliefs differ, than there are of you.  If you get to forgo tolerance than kindly hold your bitching if we choose to do likewise in response.

[ Parent ]
That was not what I was saying, Russ
My objection was to the language. Religion is not a plague or a communicable disease. It is silly and it certainly doesn't deserve any special state sponsorship to prop it up, but it is not something that must be erradicated before it spreads beyond control.

I know that YOU are not advocating bigotry, for the reasons that you said. I also don't think that the comment that I was responding to was a literal call to quarantine or exterminate religious belief. But hyperbole isn't needed - the reality is bad enough. We can call religion irrational, impractical, hypocritical, outdated, or even dangerous, but when we turn it into something so vile that it cannot be reasoned with, we start off down that road of bigotry.

Look at North Korea. Is North Korea a threat? Yes. Does that mean that we should break off diplomacy, demonize the inhabitants, and nuke it into oblivion? No. What about give them what they want and hope they go away? Again, no. We have to keep talking and try to figure this out: what makes them so hateful, what makes them so afraid, and how we can arrive at a peaceful solution. I am not saying we just let them roll over us, but their mere existence is not the threat - it is their actions.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Then why is it...
...that the only people I hear complaining are NOT you sweetness and light religious moderates? Why don't you rise up en masse and yell "SHUT THE FUCK UP" at the Robertsons of this country or the whoevers of yours? Why do you just maunder on about how it's not religion, really, when people who claim religion as their motivation do things like this instead of publically denouncing them?

It's because keeping religion un-criticizable is more important than keeping it kind, is it? If not, why? Why is it all your condemnation is reserved for those who condemn religion instead of for those who make that condemnation comprehensible?

The past is not a shadow theatre. What rules there is not the ephemeral, but the irreversible. --Gen-Col Dmitri Antonovich Volkogonov


The Ridger wrote:
"It's because keeping religion un-criticizable is more important than keeping it kind, is it? If not, why? Why is it all your condemnation is reserved for those who condemn religion instead of for those who make that condemnation comprehensible?"

Those are clear and perfect questions.  I too wonder why people of faith who believe that religion should be an instrument of love and peace don't publicly oppose those who use religion to hate and wage war. 

Fundies base being "born again" upon this passage: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. ... He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

The passage doesn't suggest that one has to declare Jesus Christ as their "personal Lord and Savior" to be saved.  Rather, I read the passage as one must follow Jesus's lead to be saved: live simply and in service, turn the other cheek when struck, love your neighbor as yourself, withhold judgment, give what you own to the poor, and so on.  The key words in the passage are "life" and "follows me," neither of which suggest that there's a magic phrase that opens the Pearly Gates and one can judge others, wage war, live in luxury, etc., and still live eternally in the presence of God.

 


[ Parent ]
Moderates have hard time getting sound bites
Moderation simply doesn't make TV programmers salivate. You can't say your piece if no booker is interested. Bookers want drama, raving, pounding the table - nothing is better than having a guest lose it.

Mainstream denominations have been remarkably media ignorant. They are no competition for the conservative denominations and non-denominational congregations, which have invested heavily in owning media, producing media, having PR divisions, and which by their very nature have mastered mass marketing techniques.

And the majority of generally moderate denominations are fighting takeovers orchestrated by right wing carpetbaggers coming in and swaying congregations with propaganda. "Nice" simply doesn't cut it anymore - the pastors have to know how to deal with this type of church politics. See www.talk2action.org for details, look at article on left sidebar "shadow wars: the battle for mainstream faith".


[ Parent ]
There is a huge difference
between criticizing religion and condemning it with a broad brush.  There are many of us who don't agree with the status quo or the perversion of our religous beliefs for political purposes, and we do speak up.  You need look no further than Gay Bishop, Rev. Gene Robinson, of the Episcopalian Church to realize that there are in fact those of us who speak out to those in authority in our churches.

It isn't that we are trying to keep anyone from critical thinking about Religion as a whole, but trying to point out that you can't condemn an entire group of people based on the behavior of some of their members.

Isn't that an argument we in the GLBT community use all the time?  That you can't judge us all as being perverted child molestors because of a few people like Mark Foley?  We as a group don't like being labeled because of the actions of some simply because they have similaraties or share commonalaties, and we should be careful not to do the same to others.

It isn't right when they do it, and it isn't right when we do it.  If it is that's called a double standard.

 

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY


[ Parent ]
On Broad Brushes
Look, I'll say it again:  I'm trying to address the problem that exists when normally rational people accept faith-based solutions to reality-based problems.  In the extreme, it's Islamic nuts stoning a young girl.  In the minimum, it's Christian nuts not allowing a gay couple to move in next door.

The overall point is that it is nuts to base your life on what your parents told you their parents told them and their parents told them ad nauseum until we get back to the first Bronze Age nut who claimed he spoke with the Inivisible Superfriend whom no one else ever saw and for which he never had any proof.

The corollary is that even if you're a gay-friendly bishop who disagrees with Leviticus being God's approval of killing gays, but you still say there is a God who dictates rules to man, you're still contributing to the overall problem.  The extremists can then say, "Yes, you're right about the God dictating to man part, but you're not properly interpreting it."

Let's stop arguing over who's interpreting God correctly, since that argument can never be satisfied, and that's what has led to millennia of killings.  Let's argue over points that can be proved or disproved with evidence and experimentation.  Let's agree to live with one another under rules we all (as a majority) agree to and with standards of discussion that require objective reality we can all agree to.

After all, that's what the Founders wanted.  They built a country where no authority higher than Man's was the imprimatur of governance.  No Gods, no rule of kings appointed by God, no obesience to the holy books -- a secular culture is the only one where all religions can thrive.

(Boy, did I touch a nerve or what?)

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Blaming ALL religions for what Islamofascist nuts do is pretty fucking lame.
But it is a convenient way for liberals to advance their anti-God agenda.

Josh, for an alleged Christian, you're sure full of judgment and loathing.
Where's the love?


[ Parent ]
Loathing? Of people stoning a girl to death?
You're damn right. But wait. The fella who wrote this piece is exempt from the same accusation you made about me because he is an atheist, right?

Nah. There ain't no double standard.


[ Parent ]
You're being disingenuous.
We all loathe the stoning.  Saying that you do is akin to saying you breathe, as we all do. 

But for an alleged Christian, you lob invective and cast judgments and are generally verbally violent.  Is there a double standard?  Sure.  You allege that you're a follower of the Prince of Peace.  Russ alleges no such thing.  Therefore, you establish a different standard for your self, which you repeatedly ignore. 


[ Parent ]
Christians aren't called upon to be patsies
So if you expect me just to roll over and take somebody's shit, forget that.

I love how you liberals give yourselves license to do whatever you want just because you claim no standards. It's a great little system you have there. Sit on your brains and slam other people for doing the same things you do.


[ Parent ]
WOW, Josh is coming unglued.
  And he claims to be such a darling Christian.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

[ Parent ]
Just calling the leftwing hypocrites
on their hypocrisy, honey. It's what I do.

[ Parent ]
Than don't quit your day job.


If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

[ Parent ]
The worthless troll isn't Christian,
and is also too stupid to realize what he actually worships is his version of conservative politics.

[ Parent ]
Have you read the New Testament?
Are you familiar with the myriad warnings about judging?  Tempering the tongue?  About wealth?  Do you know the Golden Rule?  Do you know that the Christ urged all to turn the other cheek?

Here's my standard: if you assert that you believe in a certain theology, then follow that theology.  If you want to attack and judge, then you need a new religion. 

It's embarrassing to hear you call someone a "fat fuck" and assert that you believe in the Prince of Peace.  Christians ARE called upon to be patsies.  The Bible asserts that there's no greater glory than dying for God, then suffering joyously and gratefully.

 


[ Parent ]
Jesus also called a spade a spade.
Do you remember the marketplace scene in which Jesus became enraged at the moneychangers in the temple and threw their asses out?

Well, I am angry that the political hucksters and swindlers (liberals) are occupying  the sacred halls of government, and it's my job to get the hell out.

As for my sometimes descriptive language, for some people, you have to speak their language in order to get their attention.

But once again, you have absolved yourself of any standards of behavior since you latch onto the religion of anything-goes godlessness.  How very convenient.


[ Parent ]
Josh, Jesus was enraged by people who profited on the platform of religion.
Christianity, as embodied by the Christ, is the antithesis of that profiting.  Thus, his rage.  His rage was about money.  And that money-induced rage runs through the Bible:

"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" DAMNATION

"If he has exacted usury Or taken increase -- Shall he then live? He shall not live! If he has done any of these abominations, He shall surely die; His blood shall be upon him." DAMNATION

"If one of your brethren becomes poor, and falls into poverty among you, then you shall help him, like a stranger or a sojourner, that he may live with you.
36 'Take no usury or interest from him; but fear your God, that your brother may live with you.
37 'You shall not lend him your money for usury, nor lend him your food at a profit." ANGERING GOD

As far as "sometimes descriptive language," that's both a euphemism and disingenuous.  From what I've read, cursing and invective are you only ways to communicate.  You allege that you're a Christian, but fail to embody Christian compassion or even have a seminal understanding of Christian theology.  Instead, you fondle the Christ's one moment of rage, not even understanding the precipitator, and thus use that misunderstanding to justify your rage.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9). 
 


[ Parent ]
Once again, you are confusing
'compassion' for rolling over and acting like a pussy instead of standing my ground. I take my cue from Jesus to comfort the poor and make the oppressors uncomfortable by telling the truth.

As for profit, I wonder how you view somebody like Bill Gates who has earned billions, yet also gives billions in aid to the third world.  Do you think the world would have been better off had he never been around earning his vast fortune?  I'm anxious to see how you hypocrites would respond.


[ Parent ]
I view Bill Gates, the world's most generous man, as an atheist.
And I view Warren Buffet, the world's second most generous man, as an atheist.

Now, I'm curious, alleged Christian, how do you "comfort the poor"?


[ Parent ]
I consider it unseemly to toot my own horn about what I do for others.
So I won't do that.

[ Parent ]
Ah, so you're suddenly demure.
At least you managed to compose a sentence with inserting fuck, suck, whiny, kooks, or 'Liberals?  We don' need no stinkin' liberals.'

[ Parent ]
You wouldn't recognize Jesus if he bit you in the ass!
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'"

Enjoy Hell............


[ Parent ]
LMFAO. Get this. An atheist telling me I'm going to to hell.
I believe the wheels are starting to come off, Skippy.

[ Parent ]
Not mutually exclusive
There are many of us liberals who do not have an anti-G-d agenda.

You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think.  

[ Parent ]
Islamofascist is a nice word isn't it?
It has so many useful points.

1) It keeps you from having to learn yet another complicated sociological pattern or system of belief. Just lump all the people you don't like into a single word and assume that they are roughly equivalent.

2) It makes it so much easier to hate and to compel others to hate. Nobody likes Hitler, right? Well, if you don't hate Muslims as much as I do, you must be pro-Hitler!

3) It ducks any responsibility for creepy similarities between modern conservatism and the fascist movements of the 30's and 40's. I'm not a fascist, YOU'RE a fascist! Now get in your camps you fascists!

 

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Just ignore him.
First of all, Josh can't be a fascist.  That would imply leadership and from what I have seen here he is a born follower.  Besides, remember that "War on Christmas" thing that he posted?  I swear that I have seen that on a web site somewhere, maybe even here.  He's full of shit and apparently proud of it.  I just wish that those people would memorize buzz phrases like "love thy neighbor" and "to each their own".  Until they do though we are stuck with things like people who never went to law school whining about activist judges because they know for a fact that the decisions that they are against were based on a political agenda rather than the law.  They just *know* it.  They never heard it from a media source, they came up with that on their own. 

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
No, I don't think Josh is a fascist
I was just giving examples of that line of thinking. Calling Muslims fascists, then using that as an excuse to wage aggressive war, consolidate the power of the unitary executive, and restrict civil liberties is so glibly ironic that it would be funny if it weren't so serious.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
I noticed
That Josh seems to go for hit and run commenting.  All our replys and no comeback to defend his position?  Poor debating form, Josh.

[ Parent ]
He does.
He just comes back with more hate radio mantras.  I still think that my favorite was his utterly childish remark about me not being mature.  He sounded like a high school (or younger) kid but thought that he was being clever and profound.  Part of his problem is that he has no sense of irony and another part is that he's derivative in everything he writes yet thinks that he's a master debater.  Hmmm, I just noticed what that must sound like spoken so I'm going to leave it as is...

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
The Internet is thick and sticky with master debaters.


[ Parent ]
Eeew!
Is that why it sometimes takes a long time for this page to load?  ;^)

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
Oh, yeah, they gum up the Intertubes with their master debating.


[ Parent ]
Come on.
You girls don't know anything about that kind of stuff.

[ Parent ]
"girls"
So not only are you a Christofascist who thinks Islam is a "religion of violence," you are also a misogynist.

[ Parent ]
Why not?
I'm straight and Holly's bi.  What's your point?

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
When I read his post, I thought,
he doesn't know us very well. 

[ Parent ]
Re: When I read his post, I thought,
I thought that he just didn't pay attention.  He seems to skim posts for key words and then goes off in a Rush-esque way. 
BTW, I'll get back to replying to your post about death a little later (hopefully), I have about a bajillion things to do today but it's so good to have you back!

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
Thanks, Babe.
I could chat about death all day, so I look forward to your reply. 

[ Parent ]
LMAO Mena
Tell us all about your original liberal thoughts, honey. LMAO.

I have told the story of my daughter have her religion slighted on the hate-/nut- site DemocratUnderground. Those haters of religious zealotry (except against Christians) whined long and loudly over my little expose. See, liberals don't take kindly when you hit em in the nuts with examples of their own hypocrisy.  Remind me to tell you about the lovely pro-choicers my daughters  encountered when I took them to the March For Life in Washington a couple of years ago.

About the bad legal decisions, true, I am not an attorney, but like any good leader and decision-maker, I listen to the opinions of qualified people I trust. That helps me make my decisions.  That to me beats the hell out of relying on the fat fuck Michael Moore, the obscene perv Bill Maher, or the failed comedian-turned-failed talk show host Al Franken for talking points.


[ Parent ]
Oh, I'm sorry...
You wanted me to say nice cuddly compassionate things about these fucking murderers the author was railing about?

Don't you fucking leftwing simpletons realize these people would LOVE to do the same thing to you?


[ Parent ]
Invective examples:
"fat fuck"

"fucking leftwing simpletons"

So, what kind of Christian are you?  The loathing, slur-slinging sort?  Christian to me means that you emulate the Christ.  And Christians believe that the Christ sees all.  So, isn't the Christ witnessing your loathing of liberals?  Your personal attacks?  Your judging?

Frankly, Josh, I think that there are very few people who truly believe in Jesus.  The Bible says to foresake all that you own and serve the Lord.  Do you?  Are you using a library's computer in-between your shift serving supper to the homeless and your shift at the women's shelter?


[ Parent ]
I tell the truth.
If you get offended by the truth, it just proves you were one of the ones who needed to hear it most.

Jesus told the truth too, and it pissed a lot of liberals off in His day, too.


[ Parent ]
Jesus was no Republican, asshole
You are just another party tool.  Josh, the Grand Dragon left a message for you.  He wants you to clean the hoods for tonight's party.  And remember the kerosene for the crosses this time, or he's gonna kick your ass.  Those heathens aren't going to chase themselves out of town.

[ Parent ]
Liberals... liberals...
The Sadducees? The Pharisees? Herod, the Roman appointed King of Judea? Pontius Pilot, the Roman governor? How were any of the people that were pissed off by Jesus liberals?

  He angered people by defying religious tradition and preaching against wealth. He broke the divisions of class and propriety by dining with prostitutes and taking poor fishermen as disciples. He taught to turn the other cheek and bless those who persecute you.

Are you really that ignorant of your own Bible or are you just trolling for attention? Jesus was a pinko commie liberal, that's why he got killed.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
In Josh's mind: Liberal=bad, stupid person Josh doesn't like
Don't confuse the dear with the facts.  You might give him a headache..

[ Parent ]
Right, and Christian = good
Therefore
not good = not Christian
not Christian = Muslim
Muslim = not good

Where conservative and liberal can be interchanged for Christian and Muslim respectively.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Enjoy Hell, you worthless perverter of the teachings of Jesus.......
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'  But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies

  "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?


[ Parent ]
Oddjob,
I urge you to ignore Josh.  He comes here to call us names.  The name-calling goes on and on.  If he runs out of invective, he turns to Rush to acquire some more.  Then he repeats.  And repeats.  And he attacks in the name of the pink, blond baby Jesus. 

[ Parent ]
Oh please
"Islamofacist" is a is a null value buzz term.  It's sole purpose is to divert considered conversation on the state of the world in general and the Middle East in specific.

Also, Yazidi is not an Islamic sect, and therefore cannot be "Islamofacist."  I refer you to the link I posted in my earlier comment.  Other links that are useful to understanding the Yazidi religion:

http://www.answers.c...

http://www.britannic...

http://atheism.about...

http://lexicorient.c...

And articles on the reaction to the killing by Kurds and Yasidi Kurds in specific:

http://www.stophonou...

http://www.kurdishas...

I just really dislike imprecision.


[ Parent ]
Sorry
Wasn't yelling, just forgot to close my html.

[ Parent ]
No need to be sorry
Bold face doesn't look like yelling so much as speaking firmly and clearly. Sometimes that is needed ;-)

You seem to be missing a key corollary of IOKIYAR (or, it's ok if you're a Republican)  It is wrong, wrong, WRONG, to lump Christianity in with other religions, it being the God-breathed truth and completely different from all that devil mumbo-jumbo. However, it is perfectly fine to conflate other religions, because they are just so many variants of witchcraft and paganism anyhow.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Oh, I didn't miss the corollary
I just choose to ignore it.  I'm not a Christian (Wiccan, actually) and I am not mandated in any way to give Christianity pride of place.

I am not required to act ignorantly because someone else is.  :-)

I do allow myself the occasional snark, though.  };->


[ Parent ]
This is so rich.
It's OK for one of you atheist fuckers to blast these murderers up and down to high heaven, while taking the liberty (and being imprecise) of lumping all religions with these violent bastards. Yet it's not OK for me to take a shot at the violent motherfuckers. I get it.

You kooks are big on double standards.


[ Parent ]
Are you talking to me?
I'm not an atheist.

That said, I am not responible for anyone's beliefs besides my own.

Please do not lump all the commenters together.  Your generalizations totally ignore all the nuances of belief, nonbelief and opinion that have been expressed.

Throwing invectives merely highlights the paucity of your positions.


[ Parent ]
Aside from the Honor Killings
This religion has some compelling aspects to it:

"The chief divine figure of the Yazidi is Malak Ta'us (?Peacock Angel?), who is worshiped in the form of a peacock. He rules the universe with six other angels, but all seven are subordinate to the supreme God, who has had no direct interest in the universe since he created it.* The seven angels are worshiped by the Yazidi in the form of seven bronze or iron peacock figures called sanjaq, the largest of which weighs nearly 700 pounds (320 kg).

Yazidi are antidualists; they deny the existence of evil and therefore also reject sin, the devil, and hell.

I could dig a Peacock Angel god.

*So he's no different than say, the Christian god, who can't be bothered to help out with the chores once in awhile, but at least he has a staff.

~piXel



[ Parent ]
ignoring the point of the article
in order to take an ann-coulter-style jab at "libruls" is pretty fucking lame, too.

The gays stole my lunch money

[ Parent ]
I'm a liberal with an anti-God agenda...
...but I can assure you that I'm in the minority.

And, actually, it's an anti-"God" agenda.  I've come to think for a number of reasons that "God" is a problematic concept which should be relegated to the human past--and/or to literature--where it belongs.

The emotional attachment that some people have developed for the idea (or vague set of conflicting ideas that go by the name, really) is mind-boggling to me.  Their defensive reactions seem so similar, for instance, to Tom Cruise's agitation when the subject of psychiatry comes up.

It's disconcerting.  And it sure makes it difficult to talk honestly about religion.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto


[ Parent ]
Just keep it indoors
I have no problem with religion, as long as it is kept in the privacy of believers own homes. I don't ever want to see it expressed in public, or have my impressionable children taught that religion exists in our schools, or see religious people with loyalties to "higher powers" in the military.

I also don't think that religious people should be able to recruit young people or flaunt their lifestyles with parades and festivals and publications and strange clothing. That creeps meout.

Obviously, anyone who is religious is too mentally unbalanced to have a position of leadership and if employers don't want to hire religious people they shouldn't be forced to, especially if they think that religious people would be irrational employees.

Marriage is an important legal contract that bestows many priveleges and obligations - therefore I don't think that someone who is under the influence of religion is legally competent to enter into a marriage. Maybe they can make other arrangements, but not marriage.

So I am not prejudiced against religion in any way, I just don't think that religious people can demand to have "special rights".

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Cambridge Kid,
you're a funny kid. 

[ Parent ]
OMG, i'm totally memorizing that, cambridge kid
i hope you don't mind.  after all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....  :)

The gays stole my lunch money

[ Parent ]
Not at all!
and I am very flattered :-)

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
Best. Post. Evah.
If you weren't attached and I wasn't seeing someone, I would be proposing to you.  Right now.  :)

[ Parent ]
And just like that, Cambridge Kid,
you have a fan club.

Since I was first in line, I get to pick my position in the CK Fan Club first.

I pick "Dictator for Life."


[ Parent ]
You'll always be my "first" Holly
;-)

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
Tee hee
I'm blushing. You can be my PHB bf Josh. ;-)

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
Fan-freakin'-tastic!
CK, I'm going to steal this (OK, with attribution) but I'm going to make one minor change to this phrase:
anyone who is religious is too mentally unbalanced
by preceding it with "because of their belief in an Invisible Superfriend,"

[ Parent ]
Haha you are welcome to it
I like the addition

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
This is the part you atheist kooks overlook.
Atheism is a religious belief just as surely as Christianity, Zionism, or Islam. And by your zealous promotion of your brand of religion, you are every bit as guilty as the Christians you love to hate.

So please keep your damn religion away from me and my kids and the hell out of our schools and public buildings. Got it? The vast majority doesn't believe in your religion.


[ Parent ]
Rediculous....
re·li·gion  /r??l?d??n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
?noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
?Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

Please tell me exactly where does Atheism fit into here.... I so hope you point to #5 or #6.  Religious automatons like this Josh kid are such a great source of comedy.


[ Parent ]
You got it. #s 5 and 6.
'Rediculous'? Seems you have a dictionary. Use it.

[ Parent ]
You got me Josh....
I don't know how I'll recover from getting slammed on a typographical error.  Anyway...

"5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith."

How often have you seen or heard of atheists practicing their belief that that there is nothing in regards to an invisible superfriend?  Atheism, to be a religion, would first and foremost need a set of beliefs to practice.  One single belief, that "god" does not exist does not make atheism a religion.  Religions are a set of multiple beliefs in the unseen, the divine, and the supernatural.  Atheists explicitly do not believe in such things and in so doing, believe in "nothing" regarding such matters.  One cannot worship or practice a belief in "nothing".  Religion also needs rules, rituals, and leaders such as priests.  Atheism has none of this.

"6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice."

This one is easy, it doesn't pertain to religion in the divine  or supernatural sense at all. It is merely an expression such as...  "That guy has made fashion his religion."  So while it may pertain to atheism for some insignificant amount of people, it isn't comparable to religion in the divine cultural/societal way that you think it does.


[ Parent ]
Did I say we should teach atheism, Josh?
My post was obviously snark, so please don't work yourself up over it. It was half jest - but only half.

Still, do you understand the difference between teaching that "there is no God and there never was one, therefore atheism is the only rational system" and just remaining silent on the subject? You seem to think that going ten minute without preaching Josh's personal gospel is atheism.

If you are paranoid that learning some of the findings of modern science, a broad summary of what is known of history, and some of the cornerstones of literature will drive kids to be atheists, you aren't very secure in your religion.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
CK, Josh's personal gospel is:
Fuck you, you fucking fucks.  And God bless.

[ Parent ]
Likewise.


My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
Atheism is a religion...
...like baldness is a hair color.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
Sportin', I attend church, but at this point, it's mostly an agent of social...
...change, as it's United Church of Christ.  I've also attended Quaker meetings and a Unitarian Church.  They're all quite similar in their concerns.

The story the Bible tells becomes odder to me every year.  Step back and it looks pretty much like every other quirky creation tale.  Dissect it and it makes no sense: an all-knowing, all-loving God creates us and is so hurt by the very failings that He installed in us that he can't forgive us (so much for being all loving and all knowing, for it seems as if He were blindsided) until He submits in some masochism by cleaving the Christ from His body and subjecting that slice of Him to crucifixion.

However, the story does work for me if it all hinges on this sentence: Forgive them for they know not what they're doing. 

As an example of agape rather than an instrument of forgiveness, it's a stirring story.  However, one can't be a "Christian" neocon and believe in agape.  Agape precludes shock and awe, imperialism, and hating the homos.  Agape demands that one loves one's enemies.  Ironically, those folks at that agape website are dedicated to hate.


[ Parent ]
Sportin', another inexplicable part of the dogma is that we believe...
...in a God who won't reveal Himself.  If we do, we're saved.  If we don't, we're damned.

Imagine a parent behaving in this way.  The mother lives in the attic and never reveals herself to her children.  Those children must proclaim their belief in the hidden mother or be damned to the basement, where they sleep on a concrete floor beside the furnace.  And they must adore the absent, hidden mother or she'll sneak down at night, bust some pipes, and flood the house.  If social services arrived, they'd arrest the mother and charge her with felonies of abuse and neglect.  But this is how the Christian God is framed.


[ Parent ]
Revelations
Actually "they" beleive that "God" has revealed Himself once and will reveal Himself again at the end of the Tribulation.

That's like saying that Mom came down once a long time ago to make a sandwich long before you were "created" and she'll come down and visit you again after she's listened to all your whining and suffering and mommy devotion through the ventilation system and determine whether or not you're worthy of her to join her in the attic or your creepy uncle in the basement for the rest of your existence.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Hey, I like the addition of the creepy uncle.
It is a strange story, isn't it?  But if you read a lot of mythology, it's a pretty standard story. 

[ Parent ]
Where do you think
"Son of a B*tch" came from?  Or when things become unbearable crying "uncle?"

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
Atheists have the depth of a saucer.
They remind me so much of little insects in that their world is everything that's within two inches of their faces. No nuance capacity, no critical thinking ability, just pavlovian stimuli.  By God, if we can't hear, smell, see, taste, or feel it, it just ain't there.

Question for you godless kooks: Does love exist? What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What are the physical dimensions of it?  If you can't answer those questions, does that mean love doesn't exist?


[ Parent ]
um,
Are you talking about love the emotion?  Are you talking about attachment?  Are you talking about an instinctive sense of responsibility?  All of those are covered by biochemistry happening in the central nervous and other systems.  That's truth;  it's physiology.  You'll need to find another noumenal example.

In the past no one could have told you the weight of the earth or sun.  Now people know that. Even if it's an estimate, it's still measurable.

If you're looking for seemingly magical, otherworldly trends, why not check out [evil numbers] (from the Mathematical Association of America)?  Many evil trends surrounding 666 are exposed there!

Electricity's for light bulbs!


[ Parent ]
You have described man's physical reaction to love
but you haven't given us a physical description of love itself. How large is it? How much does it weigh? What does it look like? Please stop beating around the bush and answer the damn questions/

[ Parent ]
The physiological response can be quantified.
One could measure the amount of oxytocin released at moments of amour.  One could measure pupil dialation.  If you want quantification, that's possible.  What you deem the physical reaction isn't that at all.  It is the love.  Love is largely chemicals, which are released at programmed moments.

It seems you're thinking of love in that amorphous, squishy, 14-year-old-female-pining-for-misery-and-composing-bad-poetry kind of way.  Butch up, bud.  Your slip is showing.


[ Parent ]
Why do you insist on defining physical reactions to 'love' ?
I asked for quantitative measurements of 'love' itself. Not a description of its manifestations. WHY are you liberals so slow?

[ Parent ]
no love
without reactions.  That's why Josh.  It's just not magic.  Really, it's not.

Electricity's for light bulbs!

[ Parent ]
I'm beginning to think that Josh is a junior high girl, practicing her...
...Mrs. Married to a Man signature, changing her mind about her wedding colors every other hour, and believing that love is announced by beribboned unicorns that trot across a rainbow.

[ Parent ]
the "arguments"
certainly fit that source, lol.

Electricity's for light bulbs!

[ Parent ]
Yep, I passed through that point. We all do. We subjected our friends to navel-gazing cognition and poetry like this:
He and me,
that made we.
Alone I am,
without him.
Tears they fall,
like rain, yes, all.
But love persists
as I slash my wrists.
I bleed for he,
I die with glee.


[ Parent ]
What was Wilson's reaction to the love 'he' received in "Castaway"?
Just curious

[ Parent ]
A: Biochemically
originated and executed in the mind of an actor and other movie makers involved.  Again, love isn't magic.

Electricity's for light bulbs!

[ Parent ]
Blasphemer!
Next you'll be saying unicorns aren't real.

One can see, albeit indirectly, that much "love" was only lust.  Watch every other married couple sit across from each other in a restaurant with NOTHING to say.  Without the long gone, ephemeral rush of oxytoxin, they got nothin'.

It's interesting that Josh would cite Wilson, since Tom Hanks pretended to love a ball by pretending it was a person.  It's double decker pretense.


[ Parent ]
God isn't magic either.
Most of what He does is pretty mundane.

[ Parent ]
Oi vey.....
So most of what your invisible superfriend does is common, ordinary, and unimaginative?  This is just mind boggling.

[ Parent ]
Yep. God works in ordinary predictable ways most of the time.
You do good things. Good things generally happen to you. Cause and effect. Authored by God. Nothing earth-shaking. Very predictable. But also ingenious.

[ Parent ]
wait a sec.
I always thought the saying was "God works in mysterious ways!"  I have been so misinformed.  Now God is predictable and boring.  Geeze louise!  Good thing I don't beleive in him, I like a little randomness and shock every now and again.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
None of it is mundane, Josh
You seem to think that if we can uncover layers of complexity beneath apparently simple and mystical proccesses, that devoids their meaning. It is exactly the opposite.

Atheists don't believe that they can learn everything that there is to know about love and summarize it with a chemical formula; however, they do have the curiosity to look for more tangible explanations where theists simply see the mysterious design of God. Learning that certain parts of the brain are associated with love doesn't diminish it. Love is love is love. It is still just as beautiful and powerful.

It is amazing how many other things that you see around you are that way too. What would we know about astronomy, for example, if we had just accepted the biblical statement, "the earth stands still in the heavens; it does not move".  What would we know about the respiratory system if we still just accepted it as the breath of God passed into inanimate clay? Looking for natural explanations does not limit our appreciate of the world, it expands it exponentially.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Exactly Cambridge
That it's a challenge to summarize our natural world is exciting to this atheist.  I love the complexities.  Not believing in magic doesn't mean I lack an ability to be awestruck by the natural world. The fact that we lack the ability to fit or describe the phenomenon we're in doesn't prove that magic (i.e. god) is real.  But, it does provide endless opportunities for exploration.

Electricity's for light bulbs!

[ Parent ]
comment shift
Holly, my response it to Josh, not you :)  I think the comment nesting pushed mine down.

Electricity's for light bulbs!

[ Parent ]
Yep, I knew that.
Josh has a weird dichotomy in his thinking.  He writes as if he's a bully, but gets all squishy with regards to love.

[ Parent ]
Why is it that....
crazy religious right people like yourself go for these asinine comparisons.  You can't compare an emotion or attachment to a sentient being.  You can experience love, you can't experience god.  But if you want answers to your totally irrelevant questions, here you go.  No, you can't describe love in physical terms if you choose to ignore brain activity and patterns.  I'm sure in some twisted way you will see this as an affirmation that your invisible superfriend exists, while I can safely sit back and laugh at how totally, blissfully ignorant you are.

Also, enough with the liberals are the devil shtick.  It's so very tired and cliche.  The right is the side most known for corruption, lies, misinformation, and extreme incompetence.  Liberals are known most notably for civil rights and freedom.  Give me a liberal any day.


[ Parent ]
"This is too hard; therefore, you're stupid"
Actually the comparison is perfectly apt. The original statement was atheists are those who don't question the obvious. Well, not everything is obvious, unless you are an insect or small animal.

My point is, God isn't quantifiable in the physical sense. But like love, God is evident in the physically observable effects of His being. We have this wonderful earth and universe put into place, and everything generally moves towards the good or positive, whether it be evolution where species become stronger and stronger; or the stock market where the markers inch ever upward; or industrial progress with better ways to serve man; the good guys eventually win out over the evil liberal tyrants, as with Hitler and Stalin.  What intelligent being set all this in motion? It wasn't some bearded bespectacled atheist whose god is himself.


[ Parent ]
Josh, you actually composed a rebuttal rather than heave invective.
Good for you.  Alas, I have to go, but keep up the discourse.  Remember that chatting is good.  Puking slurs is bad.

[ Parent ]
And anger management classes will set you free, Josh.


You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think.  

[ Parent ]
Holly, if you can civilize Josh
all I can say is, I'm not worthy to stoop down and loose your sandal strap.

Sorry, sometimes I still get all biblical. Old habits.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Hold on a second....
I'm not sure if I'm reading you right with the Hitler/Stalin comment.  Do you really believe that Hitler and Stalin were liberals?  Hitler and Stalin were both communist dictators entirely opposed to liberalism.  If you are in fact thinking that those two were liberals, you should really learn more about liberalism because thats just rank ignorance.

I'll even link for you....
http://en.wikipedia....

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power (especially of government and religion), the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.[2] In modern society, liberals favor a liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law and an equal opportunity to succeed.[3]

What exactly do you find so evil about this?


[ Parent ]
ALL dictatorships are liberal by definition.
The key tenet of liberalism is a strong central government, and that's what dictatorships are. Conservativism's goal is less government; a weaker less powerful central government.  Have you heard of a dictator in history whose philosophy was "I want less power and less control. I want to be weaker?"  That's why no dictator can be from the right.

[ Parent ]
Absolutly and 100% Wrong....
Liberals key tenet is not strong government, it's the same as conservatism in this respect.  Less government, more limits on government.  Again, I urge you to read the definition of liberalism, enlighten yourself.

http://en.wikipedia....

"Broadly speaking,...... limitations on power (especially of government and religion)"

"A broader use of the term liberalism is in the context of liberal democracy (see also constitutionalism). In this sense of the word, it refers to a democracy in which the powers of government are limited and the rights of citizens are legally defined;"


[ Parent ]
Baloney
I don't know of any liberal politician in America who wants to reduce the scope of government. I don't need to look at fucking Wikipedia (where anybody can write anything) to define what everyone already knows.

[ Parent ]
Translation: "What Everyone Knows"=
What Rush told me between OxyContin binges.

[ Parent ]
OK. Name one liberal
who wants to reduce all income tax across the board, do away with government programs across the board, and reduce the size of government.

[ Parent ]
Hey Josh....
Name me one true Liberal.....

[ Parent ]
Can't do it?
Didn't think so.

[ Parent ]
That must save you a lot of reading
not needing to look things up, since what you know is what you assume everyone must know, and that is all that you really need.

Liberals do want to reduce the scope and power of government, in the sense that they want the government to be more transparent, more accessible to ordinary people, and more democratic. However, government is not the only threat to liberty.  As long as it truly represents the will of the people, it is a useful check against the undemocratic machinations of the powerful.

I am still not sure what Pontius Pilot, Hitler, and Stalin have to do with modern liberals in America though. Oh right, they all were opposed to The Truth (registered trademark of The Josh) and are therefore indistinguishable

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Fine. Name for me one liberal who wants to reduce the scope and power of government.
Of course you can only do that by lower taxes to stop feeding the beast. So name one leftwinger who advocates that.

[ Parent ]
Oh... I get it now....
the reason you can't name a single true liberal is because you think that democrat, left wing, and liberal are all the same exact thing.  At least thats what it seems since you keep switching liberal and left wing back and forth as if they were 100% interchangeable.  Your more uneducated and severed from reality ignorant than willfully ignorant on this issue.

[ Parent ]
Still no example you can give us?
What a fucking surprise. LMAO.

[ Parent ]
The question is based on a false premise
Simply butchering the government and drowning the dismembered torso in a bathtub is no answer.  One of the key tenants of liberalism is that government can help people when they are unable to help themselves, or do that which individuals cannot do for themselves.  I know you are going to sputter and puke "socialism" at that, but go right ahead. 

Conservatives treat government as an outside enemy.  The government in a true democracy would be run by the will of the people, for the protection of the people (it hasn't been that way for at least the past seven years).  The government is us, the spirit of the American people doing things that individuals cannot.  Individuals cannot construct highways on their own, they cannot protect borders on their own, they cannot address larger economic issues on their own.  That is where the government comes in.

You can piss and moan how liberals want to steal your money, but to me that is better than Conservatives, who want to steal and run your soul to mollify their own interpretation of God.  The amount of money that I am taxed is finite, my soul is not. 


[ Parent ]
I would ask you how it's based on a false premise
except you would give me more bullshit unrelated to the point.  The fact is, you liberals have claimed liberalism favors smaller weaker government, and you can't name me any 'liberal' politician who believes that.

Psst. A 'tenant' lives in a building. A 'tenet' is a belief. You say you're a writer?


[ Parent ]
Josh, W has grown government.
So did Reagan.  So did Nixon.  Think of gov't as an organism.  Every organism has a prime directive: perpetuation.  Those who govern execute that directive.

But, again, if you want smaller gov't because you covet your mammon, then you're not a Christian.  Jesus didn't even die with His sandals.  He died naked.  He died with nothing. 


[ Parent ]
One of my favorite Onion articles
A selection:

Vatican Rescinds 'Blessed' Status Of World's Meek
'Screw The Meek,' Says Pope

The meek's blessed status was originally bestowed upon them by Jesus Christ Himself, but there is enough latitude in His gospels and teachings to allow us discretion in this manner," the pope said, "especially in light of the financial goals of the Church as it enters the 21st century. From this day forward, the Church position shall be, 'Blessed are the affluent, for they have indeed inherited the Earth.'"

In an effort to move away from its traditional meek core demographic and attract more upscale worshipers, Vatican officials announced a number of changes for the Gospels. Among them: Christ shall be said to have been born in a rustic-but-spacious birthing suite and not a manger, with the amount of gold and frankincense bestowed upon Him by the wise men quadrupled and the amount of myrrh halved; it shall henceforth be as easy for a rich man to enter Heaven as it is for a camel to pass through a heated three-car garage; and the episode between Christ and the moneylenders in the temple shall from now on be interpreted as an internecine argument over appropriately aggressive fundraising tactics.

http://www.theonion....

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Sadly
That perfectly describes "conservative Christians" like TEH Josh.

[ Parent ]
AKA
Jingo Josh?  BTW, this board needs to have an option or something that we can download to ignore certain users.  There are so many good posts here but we are getting mired down with this loser.

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
We could all just ignore him
he will go away eventually.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
True
But it would be so much easier to not even bother downloading his posts in the first place.  There have been others like this too, michael and ND30 for example.  I can see differences in opinion but he's over the top with the faux outrage thing.  He seems to think that it's cool but it really is tiresome. 

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
Jingo Josh
Perfection!

[ Parent ]
CK, that works as humor because the Pope and Pat Robertson live...
...in mansions.  Jerry Falwell did too.  A person doesn't even have to open their mouth.  Their accouterments reveal everything one needs to know about what they consider precious.

[ Parent ]
Ghandi said it best
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

In fact, its kind of like if someone created a Ghandian warrior cult with slaughter as a sacrament and imperial conquest as a "Ghandi-ordained" foreign policy.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Now I will wash your feet with my hair.


[ Parent ]
Mmmm...
kinky

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
You're my kinda (Cambridge) kid!


[ Parent ]
Back at ya babe ;-)
Now quit saying nice things, I'm getting all blushy at work

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
Smaller, weaker government
In the sense that it doesn't control your day to day life.  You know, in the sense that it doesn't attack people for being gay.  Or control women's bodies.

Oh my God, I made a spelling error!  You caught me!  I am completely and utterly imcompetent because I made one error, because as we know competent people never, ever make errors.

Don't you have to go keep billy goats from crossing your bridge?


[ Parent ]
A Christian shouldn't even care about money.
The Bible forbids it: "Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

So, someone concerned with preserving their wealth is a Christian in name only. 

The Bible assures that God will provide.  If a person truly believes that there is a God and that the Bible is God's word, they'll foresake all they have and trust in God.  Few do.  Therefore, few believe in God.  In the end, we'll all agnostic.  We don't know, but most alleged Christians swaddle themselves on Earth for the possiblity that there is no Heaven.

I see that Josh has returned to cursing.  That too makes me think that he doesn't truly believe in Jesus as the Son of God.  Christian dogma asserts that God witnesses everything we do.  Yet, time and again, Josh embodies loathing.  Anger.  Hatred.  He proclaims himself superior and super.  He dismisses the Soviets as "fucks."  Liberals are also "fucks."  Since he alleges that he believes in God and likely believes that God hears all, his behavior reveals his true beliefs. 


[ Parent ]
That is not liberalism
Liberalism aims for the greatest freedom, the greatest opportunity, and the greatest dignity for all people. It is utilitarian.

Modern small-government conservatism is not aimed at increasing the freedom of individuals to succeed, it is aimed at allowing wealthy and powerful persons and corporations to use their control over the food supply to enslave everyone else. If you don't think that is what happens, look at pre-revolutionary France, look at the US during the Depression, look at the post-Reconstruction American South right up until the 60s.


What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
Complete and utter bullshit
Liberalism crushes opportunity. It creates cycles and generations of dependence. Don't believe it? You'd be astonished at the number of fourth- and fifth-generation welfare recipients.

Nobody is fucking 'enslaved by corporations'. That is just leftwing baseless pap. People are free to work anywhere they want or to start their own businesses anywhere they like. Liberals hate capitalism and business in general, both big and small.

You need to get out into the real word and live life before spouting all this shit you don't know anything about.


[ Parent ]
Well,
can't say I didn't try to enlighten him.  Show him the truth, yet in quite perfect right wing form, when confronted with truth and fact he turned to denial.  Sad really, how terribly powerful the disease of ignorance can be, especially when it's self imposed like this kid.  Liberals for bigger government and hate capitalism...... you can't get farther from the truth if you tried.

[ Parent ]
OK. You have the floor. Prove it. Give an example.
You say I deny your truth. So now is your big chance to back it up. Name one liberal politician today who wants an across-the-board smaller federal government and the corresponding reduction in taxes.

Do it.  Or shut the fuck up.


[ Parent ]
Back to you Josh....
There are no liberal politicians today that I can think of.  Not true liberals that actually belong to the liberal party.  Now, prove me wrong.  Name one liberal that is for big government and high taxes, or even just one of those two things.  Also, if you have a problem with wikipedia, look up liberalism anywhere; a dictionary, an encyclopedia, whatever.  Liberals are for small, limited government and as most people know, are extremely pro-individual rights.

[ Parent ]
That's easy.
Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich, Barbara Boxer, Charles Schumer. Too many to list are liberals who want bigger government and higher taxes.

[ Parent ]
Add me to the list of wanting more taxes.
Since W doubled the national debt, we need to raise taxes.  This Iraqi occupation is the first war that came with tax cuts: 6 of them.  W has called his war WWIII.  So, we're waging WWIII with tax cuts.  Your children will pay.  Your grandchildren will pay.  Your great-grandchildren will pay. 

You elected someone to hate the homos and someone who, instead of turning the other cheek, attacked.  For the hatred and killing, you, by proxy, have doubled the national debt.  I truly wish that only Bush-voters had their taxes doubled.  They wanted their hating of homos and their revenge: they should pay for it.


[ Parent ]
Liberals are really concerned with the national debt?
That's pretty funny considering their history. No government program can be too large for these people, except, of course, national defense. The reason there is simple. There aren't any votes to be found in the military ... certainly nothing like in those masses of poor dependent blacks.

And what have Pelosi and Reid done about the debt you're so concerned about? They do what they've always done. More and more earmarks. More spending.


[ Parent ]
YES YES
we've heard it before from the conservative republicans. They want lower taxes so they won't lose their control of they oligarian society they have created, and they are for keeping government out of peoples personal lives. The ironic thing though is that these religious republican fundie groups are the very ones that want to control the people by using the government to create and enforce laws that discriminate against people that they feel don't live up to their "moral standards"

[ Parent ]
So the liberals are the smart ones
Well, maybe except Hillary.  She really isn't all that liberal.

So why do you hate smart people, Josh?  Why are so so full of hate and rage?  Why are you so emotional?  Is your conservatism rubbing you raw, little trollet?


[ Parent ]
Last Ditch Effort....
then I'm giving up on you Josh.  Some people just do not have the IQ, common sense, or reasoning and logic skills to comprehend such simplistic things.  Those people you listed.... not liberals.  They may have liberal viewpoints, they may agree with some liberal tenets, but they are not liberals.  Ideologies (i.e. liberalism, conservatism, socialism) are set, they aren't dependent on people who share some of their ideals.  A conservative is not liberal because he favors extreme individual rights.  He's a conservative with a liberal viewpoint or ideal.  Likewise, liberalism does not endorse larger government because one or a few liberals do, they are just liberals with another ideologies viewpoint.  People belong to certain ideologies when they are in agreement with the major and majority of the tenets of said ideology.  The tenets of liberalism is extreme individual rights, small limited government, extreme freedom, transparent government, and free enterprise to name a few.  These are set tenets of liberalism.  For someone to be a liberal, they would have to agree with the major and the majority of the liberal tenets.  Being that all the people you named are for more government, that rules them out of being liberals because one of the major tenets of liberalism is less government.

[ Parent ]
It's hell when your textbook doesn't match up with real life, isn't it?
Makes it sort of hard to see how twisted the liberal bastards have become compared to your idealized definition, doesn't it?

[ Parent ]
Just give it up Josh.
I've pretty much stopped reading your stuff because you are too predictable to be entertaining any longer so you may want to unleash your rage in a place other than as a reply to this comment.  It has been fun though.  My favorite is that you came to a blog run by a black lesbian and start acting like you are a persecuted minority just because you are a Christian.  Gay and trans people are just treated so equally in our society, how would they know what it's like for you?  I wouldn't either, I'm a woman.  A "honey" if you will.  I'm glad that you and your ilk are ok with borrowing more and more money from China.  Just don't say that we didn't warn you.  As for your list of liberals, that seems like a list of people who Rush whines about the most.  Yada yada yada.  Whatever dude, whatever.  As for Bill Gates, who cares?  I'm sure that the corporations are glad that you are cheerleading for them but for the most part most people don't care unless they are interfering with politics and voting machines.  How do you maintain such a heightened state of indignation all the time?  It's kind of creepy.  I still think that a reality based community isn't for you and really do think that you should go elsewhere.  You're right, you just don't fit in.  Toodles!  Too bad I'll never find out why Bill Maher is a pervert.  Oh wait, isn't he the guy who got busted with Viagra on his way back from visiting some sort of tourist area where the main attraction is underage prostitutes?  You are so right on that one!

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
LMAO. I'm the indignant one.
I have heard nothing but whining and bitching for you liberals ever since I signed on here. You whine about corporations, but in typical liberal fashion, you don't stop to think who corporations really are.  You think of them as these giant things. These gargantuan faceless entities. What corporations are are thousands of day-to-day workers like you, tens of thousands widows, retirees, and grandparents whose pensions include stock in these companies, and maybe a handful of well-paid vice-presidents and one super highly paid CEO. And that CEO doesn't earn what a fucking leftist rock star makes. So there you are. Your hateful image has been unmasked. Corporations are 99+% average people. Your hatred, as usual, has been misdirected. If you have to be mad at somebody, direct you anger at these government and media fuckers who try to destroy these job-providing corporations, such as the anti-big oil crowd who proffers the absurd notion that oil companies control the price of gasoline, and that there should be a windfall tax on them.

[ Parent ]
zzzzzzzzzz....yawwwwnnn


[ Parent ]
Just waking up, Patrick?
Let's hear it for the .

[ Parent ]
You know what, Josh?
I'm not your tutor. You clearly don't know much about labor theory, history, economics, political science, or even your own religion (let alone anyone else's). The "real world" you live in must be very sheltered indeed. I am tired of defining words for you, explaining fairly easy concepts to you, and untangling your childish spaghetti logic.

I would suggest that you do some reading, engage yourself with more people outside of your circle, and listen to someone other than Rush for a change. I had hoped that you were here for wider exposure, to test your ideas against opposing ones and find your weaknesses. Instead you seem to want to schizophrenically lapse back and forth between proselytizing and spitting insults. You may think that you are opening us up to ideas that you never heard, but really all you've contributed are tired Fox News talking points and it is getting boring.

If other people want to keep playing with you, they can do what you like, but I think I've fed enough trolls for awhile

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?


[ Parent ]
LMAO. A green college kid who never made a dime is lecturing me
on the real world? That is too fucking funny. Look kid. I pay more in federal taxes than you will make in ten years. And for some little leftwing college snert to bloviate to me about applications learning and knowledge is just outright absurd and laughable.

[ Parent ]
So, you're rich?
Then it's time to be a Christian, Josh.  Trust in God.  Give it all away.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, what's
that about a camel and the eye of a needle? :)

Electricity's for light bulbs!

[ Parent ]
Exactly.
According to the Bible, every rich person is damned.  Every damn one.

Thus, rich, alleged Christians don't truly believe in God.  Why would one drive a BMW if you're driving to Hell? 


[ Parent ]
I'll ask again.
What about Bill Gates? He made millions and gives a lot away. Would the world have been better off without him?

Hint: It's all in how you see and use your resources. But I do love those folks who don't even believe in the Bible now getting all self-righteous about selective passages that they misinterpret.


[ Parent ]
Bill Gates
Is not a Christian. While I won't say he's an atheist, he has said he is not a "huge believer" in religion and that he doesn't know whether he is a god.  He's even said he has better things to do than go to church on a Sunday morning.  Bill Gates is not a Christian--unless you say he is, Jingo Josh, because you seem to believe you are the arbiter of genuine Christianity. 

[ Parent ]
Not self-righteous.
Just wanting you to do the right thing.  You can't serve two masters.  What is it?  Mammon or Jesus?  The data suggest it's mammon, since you're not wanting to give to the gov.  Bill Gates made tens of billions and is leaving 10 million to his kids.  So, he's giving away more than 99% of what he's earned.  Warren Buffets' kids only get a million each.  So, that's two rich man who're doing the right thing.  Are you their peer?  I don't care if you're worth tens of billions, but are you giving away more than 99% of what you've earned?

According to your divine manual, your soul is at stake.  There are dozens of passages warning against wealth, just as there are dozens of passages warning against judging.  Since you judge so freely, I assume you covet and hoard just as freely.  The first speaks to character.  The second suggests damnation...by a book you believe to be the inviolate word of God. 

I assume you are against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan too, given that the Christ blesses the peacemakers and urges all to turn the other cheek.

Josh, I'm going to take a break.  I think you're cognitively calcified.  You probably read the warnings against wealth and construct some greasy caveat because you love money.  You love judging.  You love revenge.


[ Parent ]
I get it. You people now have an out for being underachievers.
You can claim the reason you don't make any money is for spiritual reasons. What another great built-in excuse for sitting on your brains all day while taking shots at the achievers.

As for me, I know the key is to control the money and not be controlled by it. Bill Gates apparently is master of his money, as am I. And I notice Gates is very careful about how his foundation doles out money. I am sure he wouldn't consider squandering it by giving extra to the federal government. Since I already support nine or ten liberal 'families' with my taxes, I don't feel the need to pay any more in taxes.

And yes, since I am pro-life, I am all for preventative life-saving measures like the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I, like the president, believe a few thousand lives is a reasonable trade for a few hundred thousand lives that would be lost to an Al-Queda dirty bomb.  If only FDR had had the foresight in the 1930's to take down a dictator preemptively. 16 million Jews would have been spared. But then again, FDR is not the visionary GWB is.


[ Parent ]
FDR is not the visionary Josh and GWB is
Wow.  Where do you start with that one - the notion that Saddam = Hitler, the notion that Hitler really did wage war on us and Saddam didn't, the fact that we had verifiable intelligence on Hitler and not Saddam... or can you even get to that point without spurting your coffee out your nose when you read "visionary" and "GWB" in the same sentence and not on "The Onion"?

Yes, a few thousand lives is a reasonable trade.  Especially when they aren't your own.  Besides, they're just young, undereducated, usually minority, underprivileged kids, so this is working out well for them.  It's not as if they are "achievers" like Josh.

Hmmm... claiming to pay more in taxes than I'll make in ten years... claiming the high horse of "supporting" liberal families with his taxes... are you SURE you're not Michael the Libertrollian from New Hampshire?  Can there really be two libertarian multimillionaire assholes who like to troll liberal blogs for fun?

Damn, what is it about this blog that makes it irresistible for multi-millionaire libertarians to spend enough time to write sixty-one separate comments containing thousands of words to convey disgust with 98% of its audience that he finds to be muddle-headed commie liberal fat fucks who are sitting on their brains and undermining achievers like themselves?  You'd think they'd rather spend that time making more money.

Thursday, May 24: 7:30am.  2 comments - Just getting warmed up...

Thursday, May 24: 9:13pm - 10:51pm.  12 comments - Now we're on a roll...

Friday, May 25: 7:08am to 11:25am.  31 comments.  Isn't that smack dab in the middle of the workday?  Or if you're out here on the Left Coast with me, that's 4am-8am -- time you should be getting ready for work.  No, wait, I know, you've achieved so much that you don't have to work.  Bravo - I knew that hard work would pay off so that someday you could go slumming with your superior conservative rich Christian white male self on the liberal black lesbian's blog.

Friday, May 25: 4:53pm.  1 comment - just a quickie after work, I suppose.

Friday, May 25: 9:22pm - 10:49pm.  7 comments - a little more wingnuttia before heading off to bed.

Monday, May 28: 2:54pm - 3:54pm.  7 comments - Another hour after a weekend break, smack dab in the middle of the workday.

Tuesday, May 29: 8:14am.  1 comment.

Tell you what, Mr. Achiever, if you're the big fish you say you are, prove it.  Give us any small way of verifying you're the big time rich dude you claim to be.  As Christian as you are,  I'm sure you have no skeletons to hide and no reasons why you wouldn't want to witness to the world.  Besides, if you really are Mr. Successful, your words would carry more weight than if you're the Rush-listening parents'-basement Fighting Keyboarder I'm betting you are.

I'm sure you'll decline -- Michael did too.  He claimed that letting his identity be known would endanger not only himself, but so many of his rich and famous friends and many of his super important business interests.

But I wouldn't ask you to do anything I haven't done myself.  Do a quick Google on "Russ Belville" and my whole life is out there to be seen.  I'm 100% no bullshit WYSIWYG and I doubt you can claim the same.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Really?
I would love to see that.  Email your tax forms to boonimusprime@gmail.com.  You can black out the ssn and account information.


[ Parent ]
I'm sure I'm going to send my tax returns
to some liberal dumbshit who wouldn't understand them if they weren't EZ forms.

[ Parent ]
By that logic
Bush must be the ultimate libruhl.  And I must be con-servative.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
It's just infinite, Josh
God is evident in the physically observable effects of His being.
This is where theists get stuck.  Look at the Universe!  See how unimaginably immense and incomprehensibly complex it is.  Obviously, some Invisible Superfriend must have created it.

This is the "Existence requires Creation" argument.  It's been used by the Creationists when they say, "Well, cell phones just don't spring into being by random chance; someone created them!" or some other nonsense.

Well, then, what created God?  Of course, the Joshian answer is God is Infinite, the Alpha & the Omega, He existed before time and space.  Which just shows that the theist accepts the concept of the infinite.

My question: why can't the Universe just be infinite without the meddling of an Invisible Middleman?  It Big Bangs, it grows and coalesces into heavier elements that become living beings that eventually grow brains enough to create internets and compose Christian messages to "fat fucks", and then it collapses in a Big Crunch and a picosecond later Big Bangs all over again.

You compare the atheist to an insect that sees only what's two inches in front of the face.  By that analogy, I suppose the theist is the puppy dog who realizes his world is controlled by Master and he'd better be a good puppy.  Unfortunately, your analogy falls apart if the Invisible Superfriend is the human, because then you've got a grown man concerned over whether two male ants are fucking.

Lest anyone take me to be anti-spiritual let me disabuse that notion forthwith.  Like the ephemeral "love" Josh taunts us with, there are also feelings of "humanity" and "togetherness" and "empathy" and "caring" that I feel just as strongly as any other human.  These are measurable and quantifiable in many ways, but that doesn't diminish their nature when felt in the human heart.  In fact, I think it speaks volumes about a person that they require belief in the Invisible Superfriend in order to justify or harvest those feelings.

Overall, it's the fear that the Universe exists without an answer to "why?"  The fear that our existence is no more or less special than the existence of dirt, dogs, or dwarf stars, and that our relevance on the cosmic scale is an infinitely small number approaching zero.  The fear that our  destiny within the human community is ours alone to determine and the fear that at some point in time, our "self" won't exist anymore.  It's the fear that evil and good happen because people choose to make them happen rather than being helplessly influenced by Invisible Superfriend or Superfoe.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Not to be nit-picky but...
and then it collapses in a Big Crunch and a picosecond later Big Bangs all over again.
Since this isn't a science blog I won't go too in depth (don't want to put people to sleep!) but the idea right now is that there won't be a Big Crunch.  The universe will continue to expand indefinitely, which is the good news.  The bad news is that at some point all of the hydrogen that fuels the stars is going to be used up and it will be very dark.  Eventually atoms will disintegrate into subatomic particles too. 
Russ, if you are interested in something cool, and I suspect that you are, do some web surfing for information about branes.  I love the smell of string theory in the morning!  ;^)

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
I think I recently heard
a view on Nova to the effect that the Universe is expanding at an accelerating rate and that when its expansion rate exceeds that of light, there won't be enough cohesive matter and energy to maintain normal relations. I can't find a quick reference for that though.

That brane page is interesting!  I'm not an astronomy person (physiology geek), but it is fun to read about.  Even if it doesn't gain acceptance, or something else replaces it, it's a beautiful model.

Electricity's for light bulbs!


[ Parent ]
Re: I think I recently heard
The universe will also get so large that even light would take too long to travel from one galaxy to another. 
If you are interested in this sort of thing, you may want to check out this book.  I suspect that it may be popular enough to be in local libraries, especially in a city the size of New York.  I haven't read it yet myself but the lady who wrote it gave an amazing lecture at Fermilab last fall and this may be the next best thing.  She focuses mostly on extra dimensions.  Fermilab has public lectures, we are going to this one in a couple days.  It looks like Brookhaven might have  some public lectures too, it's hard to tell from their site.  The Fermilab lectures are at a high school level, which is nice, and a lot of the speakers are also college professors so they know how to present stuff and how to answer questions from the public. 

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
"I love the smell of string theory"
If there was a string theory fan club, I would join it. I'm an artist by nature and by trade, but I find quantum physics incredibly fascinating. It's like we are searching out the building blocks of reality itself, at least the reality we inhabit. That's a creation science I can get into!

[ Parent ]
ooh, that's the wrong order
By large/size do you mean volume or mass?  You could design ways to measure/estimate these.  They would be measures on the reactions governing love. 

You could have picked up on a slip of the sentence in my original comment about measuring and estimating (I meant, just because something's an estimate doesn't mean it's not a measurement(and vice versa) - every measurement's an estimate isn't it?)  Or, you could have noticed that I should have probably written "mass of the earth or sun" rather than "weight."

Instead, you seem to be saying telling me that we can experience love without physiology.  You must be making an innocent cart-before-the-horse mistake.  Our biology is the origin of love, not the other way around.  Without the biology, no love.

Don't get me wrong.  Experiencing love is a great part of being human.  It's wonderful.  It's just not magical, so you need another example.  Again, you might like the 666 example above.  Or maybe start reading some pop-physics books on quantum mechanics.  Many folks like to fantasize about touching the ghost that way.

Electricity's for light bulbs!


[ Parent ]
ooh, that's the wrong order
By large/size do you mean volume or mass?  You could design ways to measure/estimate these.  They would be measures on the reactions governing love.

You could have picked up on a slip of the sentence in my original comment about measuring and estimating (I meant, just because something's an estimate doesn't mean it's not a measurement(and vice versa) - every measurement's an estimate isn't it?)  Or, you could have noticed that I should have probably written "mass of the earth or sun" rather than "weight."

Instead, you seem to be saying telling me that we can experience love without physiology.  You must be making an innocent cart-before-the-horse mistake.  Our biology is the origin of love, not the other way around.  Without the biology, no love.

Don't get me wrong.  Experiencing love is a great part of being human.  It's wonderful.  It's just not magical, so you need another example.  Again, you might like the 666 example above.  Or maybe start reading some pop-physics books on quantum mechanics.  Many folks like to fantasize about touching the ghost that way.

Electricity's for light bulbs!


[ Parent ]
God, religion, and church
Three different but related things--and that's an interesting topic all to itself.  The social and communitarian aspects of church appeal to me, too.  You make it all sound so uplifting and beneficent, and I'm sure since you're involved, it probably is.

Your kind of liberal protestantism was born out of the same enlightenment period that brought us representative government, inalienable rights, and individual freedom.  It used to represent the religious mainstream in this country, I think, but historically speaking, it's the exception to the rule when it comes to religion.

In any case, it all seems to be collapsing and crashing down along with the rest of our enlightenment heritage.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto


[ Parent ]
Yes, it seems to be collapsing.
When someone declares their Christianity, I now assume the worst: warmongering, greed, etc.  Of course, this doesn't apply to all Christians, but millions elected Bush and supported his invasion and support his imperialism...in the name of God.  I once wrote an article comparing Bush to Hirohito and I still believe that's an apt analogy: both were allegedly appointed and informed by God.

It's kind of you to assume the best, but United Church of Christ would fare very well without me.


[ Parent ]
For the last time
America has not annexed any country for over 100 years, ergo we are NOT an imperialist country.  Please learn what the damn words mean before you toss them about so frivolously.

[ Parent ]
Imperialism:
"Main Entry: im·pe·ri·al·ism
Pronunciation: im-'pir-E-&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : imperial government, authority, or system
2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence We invaded.  We occupy.  We gained "control over the political or economic life of other areas."  We're imperialists.

What's frivolous is your use of adverbs.  Adverbs are the mark of an undisciplined mind.


[ Parent ]
Did you forget, precious?
Iraq had free elections and adopted a constitution. We do not have dominion over them.

I know, I know. "How dare we export freedom?"


[ Parent ]
Gosh I forgot
Hawaii came to us first.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ Parent ]
The American pineapple barons did
and they were the only Hawaiians that mattered.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
Me too.
I have mentioned this here before but I'll do it again- I am an atheist but tend to think of religion in the same way that I think of fetishes.  They might not be my thing but no one is forcing me to do anything that I don't want to do and as long as no one is getting hurt (in a bad way) I really don't care what other people do.  Whatever gets people through, ya know?  It's when religion is used to deny people rights and/or force them to support it through taxes or tithes is when I have a problem.  I also don't get what people get out of it except perhaps a feeling of stability and a way to accept death.  Unfortunately a lot of people have decided to use the time they have until their inevitable demise to make other people's lives as miserable as possible instead of appreciating every day that they have in this world.
Cambridge Kid, consider me part of the fan club too.  Can I apply for the office of Beard?  ;^)

My America includes LGBT families.

[ Parent ]
LOL no need for a beard, Mena
I've taken to shaving regularly. You can help me pick out my clothes though - I seem to have gotten the gay gene, yet missed the closely associated fashion gene. ;-)

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
I thought all you people
had a flair for picking out clothes.

[ Parent ]
Say, Mena,
regarding death, I can't understand why anyone would want to live forever.  As a devout child, I feared immortality.  Time hasn't changed that.  We're just not wired to live forever.  Life chips away at us.  Live a thousand years and there won't be much left.  Live a guhzillion years and you'd be mad.

[ Parent ]
That kind of thinking comes from a feeling of powerlessness.
I've never understood people who think life would become boring after so many years. I think of all I could accomplish if I had a thousand years. Liberals are thinking about, well, you know what. Number one.

[ Parent ]
Reason 4185
I find it very hard to dispute Sam Harris' statement that an atheist is just somebody who refuses to deny the obvious.

"You are the rest of the world."

Atheists think one dimensionally.
I guess they simply lack nuance. Didn't the goofy bastard John Kerry use that term once?

If it ain't in front of their faces, it just ain't there. My son has a gerbil who feels just the same way.


[ Parent ]
Yes we tend
to base our life and beliefs on reality, not some imaginary dude that lives in the sky, along with all of the fucked up trappings that go along with believing in him.

[ Parent ]
Since religion
seems to be the basis of most problems in the world, one has to wonder why so many people delusionally follow it along with all of its weird OCD-like rituals.

Some have speculated
that the great river civilizations, such as Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, and India developed religion as a way of mobilizing slaves for irrigation projects.  Without despotic rulers and angry gods, it is not likely that anyone would have been willing to submit to backbreaking labor that took generations and had a very high mortality rate. How they got people to buy into it in the first place though is beyond me.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
That easy,
they got people to buy into it by intimidating them with fear that something bad would happen to them if they did not beleive. The same tactic used by the fundies to this day.

[ Parent ]
You Could Say the Same for the American South
The rewards of a more fair afterlife were cynically promised by the white slaveholders to their black slaves, via Christianity.  What a bogus cartload.  Keep in mind, an attempt was made to raise me as a Catholic; I resisted then, just as I resist the bogus "war on terror" now.  I have come to the sad conclusion that given multiple choices, people choose the easiest option.  Following is the couch-and-remote option of life, especially when it comes to religion.  Of course, being gullible/stupid helps.

=>The truth usually isn't pretty. Don't blame me for telling it.<=

[ Parent ]
Absolutely
And all the land from East Texas to Georgia and north up to Arkansas was swamp and rainforest until slave labor cleared it for planting.

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

[ Parent ]
So you opted for the religion of atheism.
And now your god is yourself and the plantation massahs of liberalism. Looks like you got duped to the greatest degree possible. Reread your last sentence, please. It's so apt.

[ Parent ]
Religion is not a Disease... It thrives on one.
  First a little about me.  South-central Louisiana-  Thats where I was born, raised, and continue to live.  I was raised a roman catholic.  Went to church like a good little lemming every Friday, Sunday, and holy day.  Friday's because I attended a private catholic school from kindergarten through high school.  12 years of religion classes (don't recall religion being taught in kindergarten.  I ended up coming out of all of that agnostic.  The majority of the hate, violence, intolerance, and vilest acts and words I have witnessed in my 27 years of life have come from those that claim to be religious and acting on "Gods" will.  I'm a poster boy for the debunking of the idea that being gay is a result of environment.

  I find that religion in and of itself is not a disease but rather thrives on the worst disease this world has ever known, yet is easily cured.  Ignorance.  Pure and simple, study after study, real life experience after experience, I've seen it and read about it.  The more knowledgeable the person, the less likely they are to believe in an Invisible Superfriend (I love that term btw).  The more religious a country or state, the higher the rates of crime and all manor of detestable horrors.

  Some might ask why agnostic rather than atheist.  Well, it has to do with ignorance.  I loath ignorance.  I find the declaration that there is a "god" to be ignorant as there is no proof, but I also find that the declaration that there is NO "god" ignorant as well, because likewise, there is no proof.  I find atheists less ignorant than religious believers because their belief begins and ends with there just being no "god" where as those who believe in "god" go on to believe in whole host of other egregiously inane and unprovable things.

  As to those that would say "What about all the good that religion and churches do?"  I say take a look at this:

http://www.holysmoke...

  Now tell me.... you have this serial murderer, rapist, pick your poison person who after serving his time goes on to live a life doing charity work, feeding the poor, spending what money he stole from his rich victims to open hospitals and schools.  When you look back on his life are you honestly going to say "Hey, he did some bad things in his past, but he's done so many good things too, so I wouldn't mind working for/with him"  No, your not.  Your going to remember him for the vile person he was.  But oddly enough, there is a double standard when it comes to religion.  The religious block out all the horrors of their past.  They block out the fact that more people have died in the name of a "god" or "gods" than for any other reason on this earth.

  If you want to believe what a bunch of flat earth, geocentric, bronze age barbarians wrote on the skin of animals and bark... it's all yours.  Just don't try to influence my life and human rights because your invisible superfriend doesn't agree with me or mine.

....Sorry for the rant....


Addendum
I should have said:

The religious block out all the horrors of their past AND PRESENT.


[ Parent ]
Just getting up?


This is as far as I got
I have heard nothing but whining and bitching for you liberals ever since I signed on here.
Don't you mean "at" and not "for"?  This is going to be another rant drawn straight from Rush's Fact-o-matic isn't it?  Not interested.  Either get some real facts or new echo chamber mantras or go away.

My America includes LGBT families.

I just don't respond to him,
  He has no points to make, and no way to convince me he has anything but Rush talking points.

 

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.


[ Parent ]
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