NY Magazine: married men on the down low

MM are everywhere

I'm sure many of the blenders here can tell you how many times they have either been approached by married men online or how many profiles they have seen saying, Married, must be discreet.

 Countless I tell you.

 And my 40yr roommate who is only out to a few friends still has no desire to come out to his family or work. And heaven forbid you will ever catch him at a pride parade. However, you can always find him locked in his bedroom most of the time. Sad, I've tried my darndest to crack open that shell he lives in but some are just set in their ways.

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by: Pta @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:32:00 PM CDT

Ex-gay ministries often hold up as a successful outcome for an

ex-gay man to be married to a woman.   They are so hidebound to their doctrine that homosexuality is chosen (or learned) that they will set up who knows how many people for the anguish of a failed marriage. 

Of course, the men in the article know they're gay, they're not pretending—to themselves.  Reprehensible behavior: sexist (exploiting the women), as well as self-oppressive.  This is the best argument possible for gay marriage—to give men the privileges of marriage without having to deny their sexual desires.  Conservatives should support gay marriage, to protect all the women who would otherwise find themselves in this dismal situation.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

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by: drosophila @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:49:59 PM CDT

Ah, but this is the thing...

<i> nservatives should support gay marriage, to protect all the women who would otherwise find themselves in this dismal situation. </i>

 Nearly all conservatives...including the female conservatives...decry anything that would actually "protect" women...

 

ee 

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by: Julien Sharp @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 13:09:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Heterosexual " married men

The AIDS epidemic (early on) showed how common married "straight" men were frequenting baths, and cruisy parks....a quick stop for a bl*w job on the comute home to the wife and kiddies. Women who want their husbands staying home would be wise to NOT give up oral sex, on their wedding day....just saying.

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by: underbear1 @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 13:14:08 PM CDT

Well...

Actually, oral sex alone has a very low risk of contracting HIV; any married men who did become HIV+ from same-sex encounters most likely went further than that.

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by: kmpintj @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 13:52:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

oral sex is the gateway drug

Yes many supposedly straight men also recieved anal sex at parks and bath houses, which is the highest risk behavior, most I'd say started dropping by parks for a quick BJ.

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by: underbear1 @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 14:13:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I've read that receptive anal is the endpoint behavior for

many men, they start out doing oral sex, then try insertive anal and finally receptive anal.  Apparently, for many men, that's the most pleasurable form of sex, so they end up preferring it.   Alas, of course, it's also the riskiest behavior. 

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

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by: drosophila @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 20:16:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

what is most pleasurable

is always poisonous ;-)

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

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by: Cambridge Kid @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 22:54:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

These guys...

These are the guys who make it impossible on us.  Right there, on the surface, they'll admit, for the most part, to being gay, but their pursuit of this "lifestyle" underground is implicit admission that there's something wrong with it.  They have all that lovely internalized homophobia (that alarm goes off anytime someone has the balls to disparage "gay pride" to me) that tells them this is something of which they should be ashamed.

 

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by: eric @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 14:28:03 PM CDT

Are there any "straight" men left?

Are there?  I ask that more than half-seriously.  Until recently my job had me working crazy hours for several years .  It was difficult to see friends, let alone find and nurture a regular relationship with another guy, so I simply decided that until my life slowed down it was ok to play the scene and enjoy hooking up for casual encounters. 

Having been a happily out gay man for more than 20 years, I have been a regular on various hook-up sites, an occasional visitor to the heavily wooded local park in my neighborhood and even -- a few sleazily amusing times -- to the neighborhood porn shop.  So I speak from experience when I say of Craiglist, "I HAVE NEVER MET SO MANY STRAIGHT MEN IN ALL MY LIFE!"

There were days when it seemed like the majority of men on Craigslist were married closet cases looking for a little on the side.  I had a number of exchanges with some of these guys, but stopped fairly quickly because I got fed up with their weird attitude of guilt and smugness. They sounded a lot like the guy interviewed in the article.

I finally told off one particularly smarmy jerk who made some very demeaning comments about his wife and women in general -- at the same time he was making snotty comments about "obvious" homos.   If there was justice in the universe, guys like this would be condemned to a lifetime of lousy blowjobs from snaggle-toothed hookers and overpriced hustlers until they come clean -- so to speak.   Besides, there's enough of the residual Catholicism from my upbringing to feel that it's seriously wrong to deceive someone with whom you are in a committed relationship -- gay, straight or whatever.

The parks and porn shops were frankly a lot better -- at least by comparison.  There was still a sense of caution, but the the willingness to appear in a location where men were clearly looking for sexual contact with other men, coupled with the open expression of desire and the immediate indication of interest (or not), gave this more public sex a degree of honesty that was generally lacking in online exchanges.  

There was one guy at the park whom I hooked up with several times and we had some long conversations about his relationship with his girlfriend, his conflict between wanting to be honest and the expecations of family, and the homophobia in his (minority) community.  He talked about challenging his brothers and male cousins on this and even stopping them from harrassing a gay guy in a bar.  This kind of gay or questioning person who wants to live a life of more integrity is someone I'm willing to support (ok, and have sex with) because he has the courage to make some effort to grapple with the conflicts in his life and identity.  

The guy in the article and the many married men who compartmentalize their lives to enjoy the benefits of a hetero lifestyle while using other men to get their rocks off are beneath my contempt. They better be looking for other GMMs, because if I had my way, no self-respecting gay man would shake hands with these down-lowlifes, let alone give them the kind of hot man-on-man action they so desperately crave.  In the past I might have pitied them, but now I can barely muster disgust.  By their own lazy choice they have condemned themselves to lives of fear and quiet desperation.

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by: Smartypants @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 15:13:52 PM CDT

ok at the risk of being flamed, I'll say that I have some expertise here....

I lived that way for several years.  Not that it matters, but I felt guilty, terrible and tortured the entire time.  I was extremely conflicted about my behavior and my sexuality the entire time.  My eventual outing caused enormous pain and suffering to everyone involved and I have pretty much lost my life as it was.  I am rebuilding that bit by bit now.  My ex thinks I am scum (probably a valid feeling on her part) and my kids are estranged (cept for my daughter who lives with me).

My divorce was about as ugly as it could be.  The trial (In VA no less) was literally like walking through the gates of hell.  The only thing that saved me was a tough Lesbian Lawyer that saved me from my good intentions and attempts to make things right.  It wouldn't have helped and would have left me destitute.

Now some in here prolly think thats deserved and thats fine.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I certainly wouldn't fault someone for that.

Looking back I wish I had even a small awareness of how I felt about men when I was much younger.  It certainly would have allowed me to be who I really am and to save a lot of pain and suffering for people that I did and still do love.

Now that I am out, I do go to Pride and actually love going.  I feel totally and completely accepted for the first time in my life.  Many people know my story in detail and most are sympathetic, but I still admire them for having had the courage and awareness to be who they are from the beginning.

If I had to do it again, would I?  Not sure that I can even rationally answer that.

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by: dcmsufan @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 15:17:36 PM CDT

Let me add this....

I will say that I encoutered many many gay men that openly sought married men in particular.  Not that it means anything, but I think many of them viewed the no strings as what they were looking for.

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by: dcmsufan @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 15:22:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

hrm

i feel the same way about this guy as i feel about a straight guy who has affairs with women. or a woman who cheats on her man with anyone. or... you get the picture.

 

all transgressions in this vein should be treated equally. 

 

duplicitous scumbags, all of them!

 

(to other attorneys out there: bring back the heart balm torts!) 

 

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by: emily2 @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 15:32:18 PM CDT

Although,

I'll probably be flamed for this too but at one point I thought that my husband may be bi-curious.  He tells me that he isn't, and I believe that because he knows that I really don't have a problem with same sex encounters, but he does have permission to experiment.  The only condition is that I want to know about it before the fact- I don't like secrets and surprises.  The part that I don't like is the dishonesty, not the sex. 
Dcmsufan, I can see it in situations like yours though, sort of.  This society still has problems in accepting gays and I have seen how gut-wrenching it is when someone doesn't want to be gay and is having trouble accepting the fact.  The best way, not to be flippant about it, is that there are some people who go gray and have to dye their hair because they can't accept getting older and some people don't bother.  We all have different levels of comfort about ourselves.  Hopefully that made sense...

My America includes LGBT families.

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by: Mena @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 16:57:42 PM CDT

Straight Men In Search Of B-Jobs? Gimme A Break!

This article underscores several facts:  First, that masquerading as heterosexual, not marrying a same-gender partner, is what demeans traditional marriage.  Second, that masquerading as heterosexual demeans Gay identity and distorts society's perception of it.  Third, that masquerading as heterosexual is an ultimately selfish act that can conceal contempt and hostility toward heterosexual spouses.  Fourth, that masquerading as heterosexual reinforces heterosexism as a societal norm.  Fifth, that Gay activists are crazy if they see someone's "right" to be closeted as compatible with equality goals.  The closet symbolizes deception, shame and fear, and none of those words are synonymous with pride.   

Here's another fact: There is no such thing as a Straight man who repeatedly risks his reputation, marriage and family cohesion for unpaid sexual encounters with other men!  I don't care what takes place during those encounters.  Such a man is either Gay or bisexual, but most likely Gay.  Straight men in the habit of having sex with men only do so for pay, or in situations like prison where they have no access to women for a long time.  In both cases, they have to mentally disengage from the act somehow, much in the same way Gay men do when they have sex with women. 

Please, spare me this ludicrous notion that married men go on the "down low" because their wives refuse them oral sex. Come into the 21st century, already!  Oral sex has been common among heterosexual couples for a long time.  What's more, most Straight guys who crave fellatio would sooner die that get it from another man!  It's simply not true that "any lips will do."  Believe me, female prostitutes still do a brisk business; I see them at work on a regular basis.  Oral sex, I'm told, is their main transaction.  They do not share their clients with "down low" men!

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by: Stuffed Animal @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 17:17:57 PM CDT

Is it just me?

Sorry everyone, but this is infidelity, regardless of the genders involved and the motivations behind it. 

I don't consider myself a judgmental person, but I've seen firsthand the damage infidelity can cause to the spouse, the spouse of the other involved party, and, most importantly, the children.  As a gay male, I also see a lot of it being the MM's want to eat their cake and have it too.

It is a huge disrespect to all involved and the respective partners.

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by: Phil @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 17:38:18 PM CDT

yes!

i posted the same sentiment above. infidelity is infidelity, period. when you break the trust that you have with your spouse, you're a scumbag. it doesn't matter whom you cheat with.

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by: emily2 @ Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 08:56:32 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

a story

a friend of mine was in a heterosexual marriage when she came to terms with the fact that she was gay. before she went around schtupping other women, she had the decency to tell her husband that she realized she was gay. she filed for divorce, gave up the house (because it was her best friend she married and she didn't want to rub salt in the wound), and went on with her life. then she started dating her current partner.

 

was it difficult? absolutely. but the right thing to do is not always easy. hiding in the front of a heterosexual marriage may be easier in the short run.

 

william is a lying, weasely, wussy, pathetic scumbag of the lowliest order. sorry. it takes cojones to stop living a lie, and clearly, he doesn't have any. my lesbian friend has ten times the cojones of william the wimp.

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by: emily2 @ Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 09:10:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

outing

them with hidden recodring devices is something my partner and I have discussed. I have NO TOLLERANCE for ANYONE hiding in an opposite sex marriage. I know of my share of them and I have nothing to say to them except don't let me find out who your wife is!

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by: HDBiker @ Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 09:20:30 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I've desperately wanted to see an article like this.

<quote/> As long as he can keep his gay life clandestine, William's tacitly saying same-sex relationships needs to remain underground and that our relationships should not be treated equally in open society. He reinforces the idea that same-sex attraction is all about the sex, making quickie dates and rendezvou. He has more than enough internalized homophobia still stored inside his confused mind.<quote/>

Couldn't have said it better myself.

<quote/> "This is not the life I was meant to live. I don't know what that life is, what it looks like, but I know it's not this." </quote>

It is this quote that just drives me crazy about the closet.  The first one demonstrates the sheer bigotry of it all.  Like they can escape who they are.  This isn't a grade school assignment or playing with dolls.  It's real life and comments like the first one just anger me to no end.  There's this community of these people on this blog I used write on (mostly Christians) called "Gay ain't OK...but it's hard to walk away".  Sad.  All of the blogs are so similar saying exactly what this guy is saying.  Some are married.  I wrote one and he responded with "that isn't the life I am meant (or called) to live" and that's stupid.  Having those attractions is a pretty good sign that's the "life" for you.  Fitting in is so much more important than being honest.  That's sad.

I felt that way for a long time.  Two things helped: getting a huge crush on a guy and Ted Haggard.  The second is self-explanatory.  I knew that I couldn't do that to my wife and kids.  What happened there was sad and dispicable.  I just couldn't do that to someone I loved.  The first was having feelings that were greater than just thinking some guy was cute.  I imagined dating him and such.  That emotional link was what I needed.  It wasn't just the sex anymore (not that I didn't dream of that too).  It got to the point that I never had feelings like that toward a girl.  Ever.  Thought I had crushes before but never one like the one I got.  It was stronger than physical.  So I think those two things are the what I needed to save myself.

<quote/> "They didn't feel the need to advertise it."<quote/>

They pretend that every single gay man is a big flamer that just can't wait to let everyone know.  It's not about that.  That is stereotypical.  He only left out that gay relationships are just one guy taking advantage of another.  That's a response I got from a gay fundie about why he couldn't have that lifestyle.  They have all of this miseducation and lack of knowledge.  It's sad but it's sick too.  I feel sorry but then they are the type of people that makes my life harder to life.

 

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by: JBravoEcho09 @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 18:42:23 PM CDT

Btw, I don't know how to quote haha

Someone help me!

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by: JBravoEcho09 @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 18:43:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

how to quote

< blockquote > at the front of the sentence, and < /blockquote > at the end.  but remove the spaces i put around the text between the brackets.

and more importanlty, thanks for your post!

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 19:14:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks

I wish there was a place that helped out on that around here.

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by: JBravoEcho09 @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 11:50:38 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I was amazed

I went to college in the 80's and then as my sexuality was awaking AIDS pushed me back in the closet.

 

In my mid-30's (mid 90's) I came out and was having fun on the scene...the internet sure made a difference in my life.  I made new friends and had a lot of fun.  I was amazed at the number of married men in their 30's that were questioning their sexuality.  (Aside: Mark if you read the Blend- you still rock...)

 

Now in my 40's, I am lucky to have my boyfriend...I am glad I didn't get involved in the world of str8 guys cheating on their wives....it is the epitome of closeted activity, and only leads to couples breaking up and families being subjected to the court system. 

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by: bkmn @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 19:59:59 PM CDT

bkmn, Similar Story for Me

Teenager in the Disco era, 1970s Freedom in San Francisco had it's appeal to a kid in the South. Knowing I was attracted to guys / men since age 3 or 4, I knew I would have to leave. Leave I did then the horrible 80's AIDS epidemic happened with full blown Media Coverage. Not a good time, I stayed pretty much celibate and in closet.

I got married thinking it would straighten me out, it did not, 3 miserable years of pure hell with that woman, a religious nutcase, then 2 additional years to hammer out a divorce (MD has no quickie Divorces). FREE AT LAST at age 32. I came to realization I could no longer live a lie, face the truth I am a Gay Man, find someone I want to live my life with, move on.

1993 AOL Personals Looking for Love - I connect with the sweetest guy, 4 months younger, my contemporary, he steals my heart and I steal his. Fastforward 14 years, we are still together, I plan on spending the rest of my life with him, thick & thin, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer. Sounds like a Marriage Ceremony... If given the option to legalize this relationship... WE'D DO IT!

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by: RogernDC @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 23:01:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

what it means to be gay

William here contributes to the public perception that all gay people want is sex and that the emotional portions of a relationhip are disposable. It's sickening. He's hurting his family, and compartmentalizes it away. The longer he keeps this secret, the less likely his current wife or kids will have any desire to talk with him once he's forced to come clean about the adultery (by his conscience or through being found out).

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by: DC @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 20:49:31 PM CDT

The REAL DANGER of "het" married men on the down low

The STDs/HIV/AIDS they could expose their wife to, who may never kow she was put at risk, and feels no need to be tested.

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by: underbear1 @ Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 01:44:56 AM CDT

typo above kow = know

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by: underbear1 @ Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 01:45:57 AM CDT

When it comes to AIDS/STDs - Get Real

When it comes to disease, maybe it's time for straight women to face reality just like gay men have had to do. Sometimes men (and women) cheat. It's a fact of life. Deal with it. We all have to ask ourselves, do we want to bet our lives on the honesty of our partners. If the answer is no, then we have to take precautions. Straight women seem to think that being straight entitles them to live a condom-free existence. Well it doesn't. It's no fun for gay men to have to use condoms all the time either, but at least until there is a cure or vaccine for HIV/AIDS or an effective microbial gel, those are the breaks. Gay men understand that we have to take responsibility for our own health. If straight people had to live like we do, maybe there would be a lot more pressure to find a real cure for AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.

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by: claudew @ Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 13:05:03 PM CDT

Yeah if you are dating

I was shocked when I found out that none of my straight friends like to use condoms.  Really, I thought it was assumed. Shows how naive I was. And it isn't even just "What if my boyfriend is a closet-case and he drags in AIDS from the gays?" Plenty of straight people got AIDS from straight people. Also, abortion is no picnic. Neither are various non-lethal STDs. How did gay people get to be better at this than straight people?

 But if you are in a committed monogamous relationship, you should be able to trust your partner. If a woman's husband goes out and gets HIV and infects her with it, that is HIS fault. 

What the hell was I doing in Oaxaca in 1992, on the eve of the Zapatista revolution?

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by: Cambridge Kid @ Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 13:30:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That attitude is part of the problem

Gay men do not expect the government to save us. We know, because we are men ourselves, the nature of male sexuality. That is not to say that men can't be monogomous, but that many won't be. The reason isn't even important. It's just dealing with reality.

Every gay man in a relationship, even one that is supposed to be monogamous, has to make a consious decision whether to stop using condoms. We just don't take it for granted. Some do stop using them but many, many do not. Those who do know they are taking a calculated risk no different than the decision to have recreational unprotected oral sex.

Moreover, monogomy isn't just assumed in the gay community. It has to be negotiated. There are other equally socially acceptable, mainstream options such as open relationships and polyamory. Because these are socially acceptable within the gay male community, people like me who are so inclined are far more likely to be honest than in the straight community where things like swinging and polyamory exist only on the fringes and people who want certain careers know they couldn't live those lifestyles openly even if they wanted to. The reluctance of straight people to want to talk about the details of gay co-workers lives coupled with the fear of being accused of anti-gay discrimination makes it easier to live an "alternative lifestyle" for gay men without discrimination than their straight counterparts. If people can accept you as gay, the rest is unimportant.

It is straight privilege to think that they shouldn't have to make the same painful decisions that gay men make every day, simply because they are straight.

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by: claudew @ Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 14:04:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"How did gay people get to be better at this than straight people?"

One friend's/lover's death at a time

   http://aidshistory.nih.gov/tip_of_the_iceberg/photos/quilt.jpg

and we had plenty of practice

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by: underbear1 @ Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 16:53:35 PM CDT