Why does God hate Oral Roberts University?

Prosperty Theology

As most people here probably realize, there exists something called "prosperity theology" that posits that God wants us to be prosperous and that wealth is evidence of God's favor. My boss, a wealthy woman, is an avid believer in such.

This article is just about prosperity theology in action, nothing more. All of you are just playa haters, so stuff your envy in a sack and get with God's program!

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by: Jim @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 09:19:43 AM CDT

Yep, but prosperity theology is a recent invention.

If you'd proposed such a thing 70 years ago, theologians would have laughed at you, even though it's always been in play.  The reason the Catholic Church required its priests to be celibate is because they were, by dint of procreation and generational entrenchment, turning parishes into fiefdoms.  No sons meant term limits on familial power.  So, even in those wayback days, "men of God" were hoarding.  However, even a casual reading of the Bible reveals that rich people are going to Hell, if there is a Hell.  I know that's a strong statement, but it's not my position.  It's the Bible's position, again and again.  The Bible is quite clear about wealth: if you believe in God, you give away all you have and trust in God.  Rather, if you believe in God, you fling away all you have for money will mark you for Hell.

To whom more is given, more is expected.  To whom much more is given, much more is expected.  If there's a God, I expect He expects your boss to do much more than redecorate her kitchen.

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by: Holly Capote @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 09:36:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rich Christians

"The pride of the dying rich raises the loudest laughter in hell.", John Foster.

You can't have it both ways.

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by: mike mid city @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 09:45:24 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yep, you can't serve two masters.

If one is mastered by money, then one's master is Satan, who tempted Jesus with money.

I love that Foster quote.

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by: Holly Capote @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 09:48:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

let's not forget...

...If the Catholic Church had to pay to support all of the children a married priest would have then forget making the bucks!

"Yeah. Sylvia-Louise. You know, with a hyphen?" - Barbara Streisand in What's Up Doc?

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by: jonnyt @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 11:50:48 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

CHRISTIAN Bible

You are speaking only of the CHRISTIAN Bible.

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by: Holly in Cincinnati @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 11:53:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

of course,

because the Roberts's profess to be christians.  So it is appropriate to hold them up to their own standard: the New Testament (Part Deux of the Xtian Bible)

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 12:16:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

an opening as narrow as the point of a needle

 I had to search for this quotation form the Midrash and found it on the site of a friend of a friend:

 

http://scheinerman.n...

The Rabbis emphasized that God  is desirous of our repentance and inclined to forgive. In the midrash on Shir  Ha Shirim (the Song of Songs) they wrote:

 

 

"Open to Me [Song of Songs 5:2]".  Make for Me an opening (of repentance), an opening as narrow as the point  of a needle, and I will make the opening so wide (for pardon) that camps  full of soldiers and siege engines could enter it.

 

 

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by: Holly in Cincinnati @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 12:05:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Some Finer Points of Christianity from My Boss

My boss, who wears very nice clothes and jewelry, explained to me two basic principles of Christianity:

First, there is nothing wrong with wearing expensive things because it's all a matter of "what's in your heart." As long as you don't think your expensive things make you better than anyone else, it's OK. (Odd, though, how often I've heard her denigrate other women for what she considers their frumpy looks.)

Second, she and her husband collect Rolex watches, but there's nothing wrong with that. You see, "they're a good investment." So long as they are not a foolish expense and maintain their value, God approves.

It's an education.

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by: Jim @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 13:54:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Technically correct, but not consistent with the message's general tenor & spirit

If it were, the message would not end this way:

Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

- Luke 12:33-34 (New American Standard Bible)

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by: oddjob @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 21:40:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Entertaining

Her take on theology is convenient in light of her appreciation for expensive clothes and Rolexes.

Reminds me of the founders of and high-ups in the Amway corporation.  They tend to subscribe to a conservative, very self-serving version of Christianity that conveniently protects their wealth and privilege.  One of them said publicly, "I believe God blessed this business."  For anyone not familiar with Amway:  Relatively few people people high up in the chain make money off of payments required of people lower in the chain, who, literally more often than not, lose money.  It's arguably a form of robbery.  I imagine it helps if you think God blessed your business because most decent people couldn't justify it.

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by: KC @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 22:02:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If you'd proposed such a thing 70 years ago, theologians would have laughed at you

Not necessarily.  This idea has a long history in some strains of Calvinist theology.  IIRC Andrew Carnegie was a big enthusiast of one strain of this kind of thinking.

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by: oddjob @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 21:29:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yeah, I suppose Carnegie would have to think that.

Imagine a charity-fixated version of Mr. LaBarbera, a person who warned against gluttony and greed and urged all to love all.

Nah, I can't imagine that, considering that they crucified the last guy who did that.

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by: Holly Capote @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 22:51:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Carnegie believed in making a killing and then giving it away.

That's why there are a lot of Carnegie Libraries around the country, and most likely why there is a Carnegie Hall in NYC.

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by: oddjob @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 23:02:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Calvinism...

hahaha prosperity theology andso called Name is Claim it heresy.... hmm it doesnotsurprise me Calvinist believe in wealth religion.. Calvinism itself is Heresy to true Christianity... predestination.... that God chose who will be saved and chose whowill go to hell before the beginningof time??? imean.. youcould be a murdering idiot who is a patholical liar (George "Dumbya" Bush) and be guaranteed a place in heaven .. and a person who is a saint.. Mother Teresais guaranteed Hellbecause Godflipped acoin before you wre even born... hmm.. it kind of goes against the whole faith based salvation of the new testement

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by: adamkratt @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 03:41:55 AM CST

[ Parent ]

So very right Holly...

   Jeremiah has a lot to say about covetousness..., but the fundies will pound their scriptures where ever they can against us, but never themselves. They are hypocrits and liars.

 Jeremiah: 51:13 O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures, thine end is come, and the measure of thy covetousness.

Ex: 21:18 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:03:24 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Ah yes,

Good old "name it, claim it" godliness.  Or as some escapees from this theology call it, "blab it, grab it."

Guess we know where they have laid up their treasures. 

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by: Zorya @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 10:05:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Guess we know where they have laid up their treasures.

BINGO!!!

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by: oddjob @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 21:30:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

God talked to me last night and He wants all y'all to know...

...that He wants his preachers to live in palaces.

"From Pope to tv preachers, I want 'em in palaces," He said.

"But won't that plush living tempt them from their Heavenly focus and their Earthly duties, your Heavenliness?"  I asked.

"Pish-posh," God said.  "They're men and women of God!  They're tempt-proof!  Their job is to worship me and brag about it."

"But," I persisted and checking the sky for darkening clouds as I did, "aren't they living lives in exact opposition to Jesus's life?  After all, Satan tempted Jesus with land and riches and Jesus refused that Hellish temptation to live a life of poverty and service."

"Stupid kid," God said.

"Me?" I asked.

"No, Jesus.  He should have taken that deal.  After all, I'm not making any more land.  Ha-ha!  He could have set Himself up in a palace and appointed a whipping boy to die for Him on the cross."

"Would that have worked?" I asked.

"Sure, sure, sure," said God.  "Isn't that the way it always works?  Don't all y'all always want someone else to suffer for you?  Well, if that's the way it works for you, then that's the way it would have worked for Jesus too?  Now, I gotta go.  Later, gator."

However, after our chat, my room did smell a bit like sulfur.

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by: Holly Capote @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 09:30:35 AM CDT

Holy cow Holly Capote!!

Exactly, and once all the people of God buy into this they can vote for their own selfish desires.  Make making money ok with God opens the gates of hell for the well intended.

Even better, make hating people who aren't exactly ok with (me, my , mine) God allows the majority to dominate and subjugate with blessings from Jesus.  Once more opening the gates of hell for the well intended.  Even a well intended nation.

Well Jesus said it was Him or money couldn't be both.

He said in as much as it is up to you (my disciples) live in peace with your neighbors.  Love your neighbor as your self.

Well so much for hoarding money and advocating the subjugation of minorities, be that minority racial or sexual.  It clearly runs counter to the Gospel, you know the Word of God that was Jesus. 

That being said, and it needs to be said, anyone advocating such actions are in fact denying the Christ, crucifying Jesus again.  These people are anti-Christ.  It is only with the permission of such false preachers of the Gospel that His will is thwarted by the very people seeking HIm.

Jesus is love and so is His message.  Anyone who preaches anything else is anti-christ.

Oh ya, we know Bush couldn't smell the sulfur when "God" told him he wanted him to be President.  His ivy league head was up his Texas sized ass at the time.  Or was it the hebbe geebees from quitting coke and booze at the same time?  Who knows?  I'm thinking Satan does a real good "God".  You have to test the spirits, as Jesus said.

Love and peace of Jesus the Christ to all

Mike "Mid City" Valentine

 

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by: mike mid city @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 12:55:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Amen, Brother Mike. Amen.

I also often contemplate the many ways that alleged Christians recrucify the Christ in what they do and don't do. 

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by: Holly Capote @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 15:07:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Apple doesn't fall

far from the tree, I see. Oral was always one of the more despicable money-grubbers, and he ran with a pretty horrendous crowd. When you can be more shameless than Jimmy Swaggart or Jim Bakker, you've done something.

Incertus

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by: Incertus(Brian) @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 10:05:30 AM CDT

According to the thumpers' own book,

Jesus allegedly said "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

But who gives a rat's ass what Jesus allegedly said, right? Christianity is not now, nor has it ever been, about his supposed teachings. It is, and always has been about power, wealth, and oppression of others for the personal gain of a few. 

 

A society without religion is like a maniac without a chainsaw.

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by: Jen @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 11:27:47 AM CDT

Very true...

   and they have rewritten and rewritten the bible to read as they please, called paraphrased.

  Every time I do a search at a search engine, it invaribly, gives me the the "New International Version" and every time, I have to do another search under King James Version. They have the search engine throw you to the version they like best and everytime I have to do another search under "King James Version" They don't want their young "followers" to read the King James Version. They have the search engine to feed the young what they want them to learn. One day, you won't be able to find a King James Bible.

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:13:03 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Since we're on religion

Here's an lolfossil:

(it's in the mode of ICANHASCHEEZBURGER?)

Electricity's for light bulbs!

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by: n8nyc @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 13:23:34 PM CDT

$39K at Chicos?

Egad!  Even God knows that the crap they sell at Chico's is just plain tragic.

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by: Blood From Machines @ Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 20:49:11 PM CDT

DUNK THIS

Isaiah 59:19

So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. This is the Word of the Lord for ORU faculty and students and all who have been blessed and touched by the Lord by ORU. I believe, like as Brother Daugherty said, his heart is in ORU, my heart is for ORU also, but it's the heart of the Holy Ghost that birthed and raised up ORU and will burn out the chaff that preaches or dictates or tries to come against with a one size fits all theology that gives blanket absolution to the liberal mind set of homosexuality, lesbianism, and the abortionists. These are the last days.

Ephesians 5:15-17

15See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

16Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

I believe the will of the Lord is for ORU to always be led by the Holy Ghost, to be filled with the Holy Ghost, and to burn like the torch on the Campus of ORU for the glory of Jesus Christ

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by: MIKE OKC,OK @ Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 21:48:44 PM CDT