San Diego's Qualcomm Stadium, the NOLA Superdome and the color of natural disaster politics

I was wondering how long.....

it would take for this issue to be brought up.  From what I seen in the media, most of the people affected by this disaster are wealthy white Americans.  Hence they get more help and more positive coverage in the media.

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by: dcmsufan @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 09:37:43 AM CDT

Malibu

Is wealthy white with celebrities, but not San Diego.  San Diego is naval/military industrial.  There is wealthy white areas like La Jolla, but the fires are not there.

I heard they evacuated the animals from the San Diego Zoo, which is near Hillcrest.

Make alot of noise. Life is short.

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by: Charley6 @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 10:30:30 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

San Diego ...

The area is mostly CONservative and republicon!

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by: Juan @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 14:22:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Red Cross Disaster Services

has activated the Mile High Red Cross Disaster Services call center.  I worked in the center during the 2005 hurricanes, Sep-Nov.  We work directly with the victims of the disaster helping them find clothing food and shelter.
It is the most emotionally demanding thing I have ever done in my life. 
I just saw one of the happy "brown smelly stuff" news report about how things are getting much better because about 1400 people left a shelter.  They were moved to another shelter.  Many won't have a place to go back to.  Even if their homes survived most won't have power or water for a while. Or the smoke damage is to severe to live in it.
I do my first shift Friday.  This should be interesting during the last 13 days of the campaign. 
Pam

Pam,
J'aime ma Peau

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by: Blonde Pam @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 10:00:55 AM CDT

Large Hispanic population

In rural areas, the population is largelyl Hispanic.  It is close to the the border of Mexico. 

Make alot of noise. Life is short.

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by: Charley6 @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 10:17:44 AM CDT

It's the relative competencies/level of corruptness of the governments involved

Why are the evacuations in San Diego going so much better than those in N.O.  Simple.  Governments of N.O. and Louisiana vs. governments of California and San Diego.  Who would you rather depend on?

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by: ksu499 @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 11:35:12 AM CDT

State governments

I was thinking about this angle, too.

Of course the US government is mostly to blame.  But the NO and Louisiana's government officials are just responsibile for the mess.

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by: Juan @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 14:24:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

America racist??

Let's see here...who said it best....I think it was the former first lady and current first mother:

“And so many of the people in the arenas here you know, were underprivileged anyway.  This is working very well for them.”

I'm sure the same philosphy is applied to the refugees in SoCal.  

So many of the people in southern california are overprivileged anyway.  The massages and yoga and WiFi being provided them is just to keep them in the style to which they are accustomed.

Is it racism, classism or both???

I think it could also be a bit of assholism, too. 

 

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by: Patrick @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 12:30:15 PM CDT

The difference isn't racial, it's political

Things aren't *always* about race.  The clear difference here is because you have responsive state and local governments here in California... and it doesn't hurt that they've dealt with this situation before.

If you don't know that Louisiana, and New Orleans in particular, have always been known for having the most corrupt state and local governments in the United States, you haven't been paying attention or you're deliberately ignorant. 

Has everyone forgotten that the coastal regions of Mississippi and Alabama were also devastated by Katrina?  There are plenty of black people who live there, too, and those are also Southern states, which we all know are 100% racist, right?  Do you mean to tell me that the governments of those states like black people more than those in Louisiana?  (Alabama doesn't exactly have a shining record in this department.)  No, it's because the governments there are less corrupt and more responsive.  Period.

Ray Nagin is an incompetent idiot, and that has nothing to do with his skin color.  I'm shocked that he was re-elected, but knowing the corrupt nature of politics down there, I wouldn't be surprised if the ballot boxes wers stuffed.  As far as Kathleen Bianco is concerned, it is common knowledge that she isn't running for re-election because she knows she'd lose.

Certainly, the federal government also shares in the blame, too.  But when natural disasters strike, the response starts locally and goes upward from there.  The local government of New Orleans was asleep at the switch (remember the thousands of school buses sitting in flooded parking lots?).  Not so in San Diego.

Finally, there are plenty of Hispanic homeowners in Southern California, too, you know.  It's not all lily-white out here.  And to say it's all about racism is an insult to the rescue workers--most of whom were white--who risked their lives saving people from flooded homes and from the tops of roofs in New Orleans. 

*Of course* there is still racism in the world, but blaming everything on racism is not only incorrect, it divides people from each other, when we all should work together to eliminate corrupt government, and create local systems that are truly responsive to everyone... like they should be.  San Diego is one example.

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by: Marvin the Martian @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 12:31:33 PM CDT

Thanks.

Right on.

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by: gideonse @ Thu Oct 25, 2007 at 15:24:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Largely Hispanic

Most of the people who are ending up in shelters and in need of assistance are poor and Hispanic. Wealthy white people can afford to spend a few nights in a motel.

But, the Bush administration courts Hispanic voters. They ignore Black voters. So, race and politics could be the differentiating factors.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 12:57:37 PM CDT

Its pretty different

The situation in NO was totally different from this situation. First, the hurricane disrupted a significant amount of infrastructure - sewers, water service, road access, communications -- that have not been destroyed by this fire.  The basic fact that sewers and water service continue means so much more in terms of shelter comfort.  It makes it easier for people to offer help. It makes it easier to feed, clothe, house people.  It makes it easier for emergency services to respond.
I don't think a comparison is appropriate.
But that does not negate the fact that the failings of the public sector in Katrina were miserable.  Wildfires in California are not new. We prepare well in advance for them. They happen on a yearly basis.  And its October -- the most serious month of the year for santa ana winds, drought, and fire. And we also expect that certain services will continue unabated such as sewer and water despite the fires.
In hurricanes, there is so much more going on, so much more destruction to necessary services.

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by: arled @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 13:31:14 PM CDT

Apples and oranges

I am very confident that racism, classism, and politics made Katrina even worse than it had to be.  However, a hurricane in New Orleans and Santa Ana-fueled fires in southern California are very, very, very different animals.  The comparison is confounded, and not one I would use.  It also is the case that emergency preparedness has been shaped, and presumably improved, by the experience with Katrina.

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by: KC @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 17:53:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

San Diego Fires

I am a New Orleans native who now lives in San Diego.  Both New Orleans and San Diego have major race problems, but they are also caring communities.  The reason San Diego has been successful while New Orleans was not is that San Diego has not experienced a complete regional collapse.  The news is sensationalizing the fires here.  There is a massive disruption of people evacuating, people are losing their houses and the air is stinky.  Period.  End of story.  Most of San Diego is going about business as usual.  Those of us unaffected by the fires (and that would be most of the City of San Diego as opposed to the COUNTY of San Diego) have the stability and safety and peace of mind to allow us to help each other.  That luxury did not exist in New Orleans. 

The federal government is more responsive because it is a much easier crisis to respond to.  I would also like to think that lessons were learned from what happened to New Orleans.  Things did not run nearly as smoothly during the huge Cedar Fires a few years back.  There have been years of finger pointing related to that fire, and no one wants to make the same errors twice.  If, God forbid, New Orleans is threatened by another major hurricane, I believe things will run much more smoothly.

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by: evilbird65 @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 14:29:33 PM CDT

Bogus comparison

Katrina vs. SD fires are soooo different that the "shelter-in-place" possibilities at Qualcomm vs. Superdome are likewise different.  Superdome lost power, lost water, lost sewer because the whole damn region did likewise.  Ditto roads (meaning ways to get help in and people out).  Meanwhile, fires hop skip and jump around and destroy lots of stuff on the surface, but not lots of infrastructure.  The fire moves on and what was a closed road is now an open road on which you can evacuate people or move in emergency supplies.

I live in Vista, up in North San Diego County.  It's scary right now, but it ain't a hurricane.  I may lose my home, but I won't lose my city or my life.  And I know when it's over there won't be 1,800+ deaths.  Keep a little perspective, people! The massages and wi-fi stuff are just rhetorical devices, distractions.  Ignore them.  (And don't think I'm a pampered SoCal resident used to the good life:  I have AIDS, survive on disability, and haven't had a massage in years.)

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by: chuck champion @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 15:50:00 PM CDT

Fox News: Al Qaeda is causing the CA wildfires

hass more there

http://thinkprogress...

DOOCY: Brian, the plot they say, according to this detainee, and they don't know if the detainee is telling the truth. The plot was to set three or four wildfires. But they don't mention California. They mention Colorado, Montana, Utah, and Wyoming. We do know for a fact that a number of the fires in southern California are of a suspicious nature and they are investigating arson.

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by: AHiddenSaint @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 17:06:09 PM CDT

Party, class, race, and military presence undoubtedly

played a role in the speed of Federal and state administration response. The areas affected in/near SD and LA had wealthy and middle-class, mostly Republican, mostly white/non-black hispanic voters, and, more importantly, donors. Some of the Orange Co area zips had Republican donations exceeding all but two or three zips in the whole country, or maybe even # 1. Also, Baaaaaaad publicity if the federal gov't ignores the urban area with the largest concentration of serving, field-ready military personnel. (I don't count the desk-jockey zips of middle-aged potbellied officers at the Pentagon).

Had a disaster involved only the slums of LA, I wouldn't expect prompt action from state and federal level officials.

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by: NancyP @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 18:29:56 PM CDT

Not really a valid comparison

Of course I'm sure it didn't hurt that San Diego is white, Hispanic and heavily Republican. And that this time are both Bush and FEMA were determined to show that they weren't gonna screw up a second time.

But as others have pointed out, there are a variety of major differences. I won't rehash many of the things people have mentioned, but I did want to touch on a couple of things:

- Californians are versed in the ways of wildfires. The ecosystem is meant to burn roughly once a decade. So while the scope of the fires was far larger than normal, it's something people and local governments have a fair amount of experience dealing with. Likewise, because the earthquake danger, California on the whole has a pretty emergency response plan and state and local agencies regularly practice for these sort of "mass refugee" events.

- As evilbird65 mentioned, things are chaotic in the fire areas -- but move outside them and things are relatively normal. And even in fire areas, much of the basic infrastructure like roads remain intact. Unlike in Katrina where infrastructure was wiped out, roads blocked, etc. for miles inland, making it tougher to get rescuers in and evacuees out. 

 - The Cedar Fire a couple years ago was actually far more destructive (as of today) and San Diego and other cities put a fair amount of effort to learning from them -- the "reverse 911" system (where the fire department call you up and tells you to evacuate) was a direct result of those changes, and one reason for the huge number of evacuees. While the improvements probably weren't sufficient, they did make a huge difference this time around.

- According to one news story I saw, roughly 95% of San Diego area residents have cars, compared to the 25% of New Orleans residents who didn't. So while there were big traffic problems, people could get out. Likewise, the even the blue-collar folks in San Diego are wealthier, so they had more resources to work with.

FWIW, the national media always over-hypes natural disasters in California. (They may also do so elsewhere, but I don't have the experience to speak to that.) For example, there's the annual "mudslides in Malibu!" story, thing is, Malibu invariably has mudslides whenever it rains heavily. Or if you watched the TV coverage of the Loma Prieta quake you would've thought SF was having a repeat of the Great Fire after the 1906 quake, when in reality it was handful of buildings in one particular neighborhood.

 

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by: LenaD @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 20:57:30 PM CDT

Some comparisons, some contrasts.

1. Like New Orleans, San Diego had its share of corruption (but then again, so does every other US city).  Remember that we were once known as "Enron-by-the-Sea" with the pension scandal (that cost Dick Murphy his job), the "lap-dance bribe scandal" that got three councilmen arrested, the Duke Cunningham scandal, and now Mayor Sanders is burdened with the Sunroad building.

2. One of the contributing factors is that Qualcomm Stadium was once used as an evacuation site during the Cedar Fire.  Most of the residents of Tierrasanta went there for shelter.  I don't think that the Superdome was once used as shelter before Katrina.

3. This massage and yoga stuff at a shelter only enhance the typical California stereotype.  It's not like New Orleans would do that for its refugees.

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by: Blood From Machines @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 23:07:07 PM CDT

Yeah, right.

Too Sense's post is just plain wrong, offensively so. And it's based on utter ignorance of what has been going on here.

The comparison between Katrina and the fires here in San Diego isn't valid. The only similarity is that they are both natural disasters. Sure, the northern fires disproportionately affected the white upper and middle classes, but the Harris fire is affecting working class Mexican-Americans and whites. We have yet to see how FEMA deals with this difference (and I'm prepared for the worst), but as of right now, there's no evidence that one race or class is being favored in the resue and fire-fighting effort.

As for the difference in the stadiums, again it's apples and oranges. Evacuation from the fire areas was easy, and there were a lot of places to go, so there were many fewer people that needed to go the Stadium--or any of the dozens of other places--than to the Superdome. Information was disseminated very well, so when one shelter was full, people knew where to go instead. There were not huge over-crowding problems anywhere. And there were a lot of people still around who could open their homes to friends and family. Unlike during Katrina, when everyone ran away if they could.

And the reason that there were so many services available at Qualcom was that they were actually available. The area surrounding the stadium was untouched the fires, and the stadium was easy to get to. If people wanted to volunteer, they could. And half the city was still there, and many wanted and could help. And the people at the shelters were mostly the poor and elderly. And we still were nice to them! Shocking, I know.

What happened in New Orleans is a blight on American history, and it was rooted in racism. But it was also rooted in incompetence on both a local and national level. San Diego was prepared for the fires and the county was incredibly efficient at saving lives. There are some truly evil Republicans and Christofacists in the county, and Bush probably likes them more than Black Democrats, but if you actually read the coverage, you'll noticed that the Feds haven't done anything yet. It's local fire departments and governments who have been doing the heavy lifting.

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by: gideonse @ Thu Oct 25, 2007 at 15:14:12 PM CDT