It's time to tell the world who we are

As the one person who voted...

I've thought about doing the same thing, as I agree with the goals and effort here.

Doing so is pretty interesting and potentially risky an action on my part and I'm still considering it, very carefully.

AHS's story is well done, and I think that perhaps I will also post such a stroy once I've managed to colm down enough from the events of the last few days.

 

 

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 10:37:38 AM CST

My experience

For several years, I volunteered at my local Gay and Lesbian Center. One of my evenings was Thursday, when the Transgender Support Group was held.

On those particular evenings, it was difficult for the center to get volunteers. Most of the volunteer workers wanted to be at the center to socialize and the transgender group held their meeting behind a closed door. So, the volunteer was basically alone at the reception desk the entire evening.

However, I got to meet many of the group members during their smoke breaks and when they signed in.

They came from every type of background. Some where educated professionals with the means to afford numerous surgeries. Others were quite poor. Some had supportive families. One trans woman was living in her car -- rejected by her entire family and unemployed.

I saw some spectacular transformations. I also saw a few that were not -- large, masculine men whose biology took them far beyond the point of ever being able to pass for female.

I observed some negative attitudes from some of the more "real" trans women toward those they thought were too masculine and perhaps brought more scrutiny to themselves. I also observed a lot of boasting and pride from those who were transitioning more successfully. I have to imagine these attitudes were discussed in the group.

I recall one day when Prissilla burst through the door, ran up to the reception desk and proudly announced, "I had my orchie!" I didn't know what that was. She explained it was an orchiectomy -- the removal of the testicles. The group actually had a party with cake to celebrate the event. I have to admit I was horrified at the thought. But, it made me realize the pain and commitment it takes to transistion.

Prissy transitioned into a lovely middle-aged woman. She had seven or eight surgeries -- to her face, neck, hairline, and, of course, her genitals. She was thrilled with her success, but deeply saddened that her son had chosen to cut all ties with her.

In spite of this experience, I didn't recognize my own prejudice toward trangender people until just a couple of years ago. I have learned so much from trans friends online.

When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will.

- Abraham Lincoln.

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by: Fritz @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 11:01:26 AM CST

Interesting.

I observed some negative attitudes from some of the more "real" trans women toward those they thought were too masculine and perhaps brought more scrutiny to themselves. I also observed a lot of boasting and pride from those who were transitioning more successfully. I have to imagine these attitudes were discussed in the group.

In my experience, having attended just such a group for a little while, that doesn't really happen. But then I wouldn't say that I observed a lot of "boasting and pride" from the prettier trannies. Maybe my group was just more egalitarian for some reason. 

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by: anomie @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 11:19:17 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I'll say this much

I've never seen it happen face to face.

I've heard it does, locally, but nothing big. Its mostly a bit of local crap twixt CD's and TS's that has a local history I find all of which to be rather stupid.

I have, however, seen it online. Factional disputes over terminology, the SOC, stealth, passability, age, sexual oreintation, surgery status, blah blah blah.

So it wasn't a surprise to me, personally.  Another example of it is the difference in opinon between SuzyQ and I, for example. I would hope neither of us thinks poorly of the other, but that we have slight differneces in overall approach to things.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 11:32:49 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Oh.

I have, however, seen it online. Factional disputes over terminology, the SOC, stealth, passability, age, sexual oreintation, surgery status, blah blah blah.

That I've seen. Good God, I've witnessed some absolutely bitter disputes over who's "real" and who's not, who's entitled to call themselves what and who's not - yikes. Something about the internet seems to bring out the worst in some people. Transpeople aren't immune.

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by: anomie @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 11:41:16 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I would most likely not fit in the real to them

I do not have the background of being caught as a child finding clothes. I do not have many of the horror stories. I was lucky in either the way things happen or how they went that my parents accepted me. When I did tell them I had places I could go and stay if something happen.

I've also had the unique experience of seeing many different types of intereactions. I do not wish to tell where it happen or give to much information, but I also helped in getting a group of TG's together. What made my friends family is we were there for each other. Nobody took advantage and everyone looked out.

I think the biggest fight I've had is trying to get someone not to do to much. I've seen people who do not have the confidence to dress out in public, people who do. I am more still at the private stage. That is why if I stayed quiet I could live a normal life without worry, but how can I stay quiet when so much has happen?

I'm going to be meeting a new TG in not to many days. We were introduced by a friend. I am still scared even though I have a history of success in meeting people. I will most likely start going to a few TG start groups. One thing I have noticed by a lot of people who are just starting out is they do not know as much on what to do.

Make up still scares me. When I tried on female clothing I didn't even know how to put on the panties. My fear, nervousness, and not knowing is what caused me to need a lot of help. Oh the first time I went shopping I was never pushed but nervous as heck. By the time I got back to he vechile with my friend who helped me I had sweat everywhere. She gave me a chance to back down, but I wanted to and I felt strength from having someone I could trust who was there. It really helped me.

If you can set up a place where people are free to explore you would be surprised by the heart behind people. It's just getting to know them and listening.

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by: AHiddenSaint @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 13:32:25 PM CST

[ Parent ]

a note on female attire

something maybe to help ease your mind if you're a bit insecure about figuring out how to dress and get made up like other women:  not all women dress in skirts and pantyhose and wear make-up.  maybe knowing how to do those things is important to you, and that's fine if that's the case.  but maybe you can take a little pressure off of yourself by knowing that even if you're wearing jeans, tube socks and no make-up, you're still every bit the woman as born women.  i and many of the other born women i know (both gay and straight) under the age of 60 seldom wear "girlie" stuff (nails, skirts, heels, full-blown make-up) unless there is some formal occasion requiring it.  just be yourself.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 13:54:31 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Learn from another Twoman

or go to the source many ciswomen use - the makeover for teens manuals that teens like to use - these have chapters on makeup. Then buy some cheap stuff at the grocery store and experiment. Learning this is a rite of passage, like learning to tie a man's tie.All private, and if anyone asks, you can just say you are buying some for (daughter, niece, etc).

Or, if anyone knows of a T-friendly cosmetician at one of those makeover stores in the malls, go there for some instruction. Or - know anyone who does stage makeup? They are usually a dab hand at doing standard makeup.

 BTW, do as I say, not as I do. I am pretty clueless about makeup and do just the basic stuff once in a while for dressy occasions. Lazy, and not high femme.

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by: NancyP @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 18:12:24 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The real them,

We are all real, we all have a different past.  I know many that didn't dress when younger, as well as those that did. I have met many with the same fears as I had, and different ones as well.

  As for support groups, I have been to alot of them in Orlando, Tampa, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale and Jacksonville Flor-DUH.  As well as two in Illinois.  All were different, but most were very informative, I made quite a few friends. I found alot of help with various aspects of transitioning, from make-up to clothes.  Some of the groups were T only, others were mixed LGBT and a few straights.  I remember one where it seemed like a TS vs CD beauty contest.  A couple of them had LGBT politics as a topic, while others had topics of family members and how to deal with them.

  All the groups were different, but had a few things is common as well.

  The bottom line is we all are different, and we all are real, as we all are human.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 23:52:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I sometimes do a short bit about

the transwomen who are "HOLEier than thou".  I've seen it all too often.  But we're human.

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by: Jami @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 12:54:48 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Ha!

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by: eastsidekate @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 13:38:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Difficulties Finding Volunteers

I wonder why the Transgender community didn't offer volunteer staff on those evenings.

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by: ptboat67 @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 14:40:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

It would have meant missing the meeting

There's a period that starts not too long after you start dealing with this and that lasts until arounfd the tme of surgery (should that happen) where that group is the one time that most of them feel like they are part of somehting and can forget all the other crap going on.

I will say that every T support group and evry T gathering I've ever gone to has been a *most* interesting experience that can take weeks to sift through internally.

Its nothing compared tothe GLB gatherings I've attended -- entirely differnt flavor and sense -- and visually, its akin to night and day, lol

And then, there are some surprises...

Last night was a big meeting, with lots of different gals.  Some I'd never seen before (which isn't unusual, there always seems to be someone "new" at the meetings), and a few I siply hadn't seen in a long, long time.

When I attended my first group session, I didn't go dressed, and I was very quiet. Very nervous, apprehensive, blah blah.

I got a ride home from one of the gals. I had the immense need to just talk and ask and learn and be with someone other than myself.

And she stayed, and talked -- until 4:00am.

Things changed right after that for both of us, contact fumbled, real life intruding, homelessness, and so its basically been a year and a bit since I'd seen her last.

She didn't recognize me. At all.  When I reminded her, she freaked, lol. Its that sort of thing.

CHange is the constant in a T's life during that period. Everything is changing -- slow for some, fast for others, not enough of either for just about all.

Those meetings represent something around them that doesn't change.  A rock in the river one can cling to when the current is strong.

THey can't find T volunteers for those meetings becuase all the T's are going o do their best to be in the meeting.

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 15:28:26 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Right, but...

I understand how important those meetings can be, but my point is that it seems that the transgendered community was there to be in a closed door meeting without ever mixing with the gay community, but needed the gay community to volunteer to provide a space for them without reciprocation or self support.

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by: ptboat67 @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 15:32:24 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't know about that meeting, but..

I know that the meetings locally here are open.  We close the door because it saves energy, lol.

Here, T's are invovled in all the organizations, and when there's a meeting for gay folks, we do man door. Or woman the door. Or andrgyne the door.

(gah -- you get the idea)

So I suppose the best thing to do, rather than leaping to a conculsion that isn't founded on enough information, would be to ask about those meetings at that location, and see.

I suspect the T folks manned the door during the gay meetings. (I know I would, though, so that's my leaping to a conclusion without evidence).

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 16:02:00 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I was going off what was written

My experience has been far more akin to the prior post than to what you wrote.  My experience with the trans community, with some exceptions, of course, is that the general attitude is one of separation and even homophobia within that separation, so I have often wondered, over the last 24 years that I've been out, why the gay community has bent over backward to include a group, sometimes to their detriment, that spends so much eneergy declaring that it is absolutely separate from it.

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by: ptboat67 @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 16:28:43 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yes.

You were going off what was written.

And you leaped to a conclusion that has no basis in truth.

What detriment has the trans community ever provided to the gay one?

I've asked this before, and no one seems to have an answer other than transexuals are a problem, but they use transgender as a code word for them.

And what bending over backwards has been done?

And where does the Transgender community declare that it is separate from the others?

Seriously.

Give that some thought.

Becuase wihout examples that are, acutally, what you describe, I can't answer your unspoken question, only the absence of it.

 

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 17:34:31 PM CST

[ Parent ]

i learn so much from such personal experiences

Thanks for posting this story and to aHiddenSaint for sharing the story of her life.  Narratives such as these are all too often missing, or put in the background, when we discuss politics and policy.  I'm horrified that HRC let this happen, and this one individual's story, a beautifulluy humane and authentic story, is why the recent decisions are so incredibly dehumanizing and disappointing.   

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by: timinchicago @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 17:04:37 PM CST

Very nice post Ahiddensaint,

  My story is posted here in many parts.  I am sure many here have read my comments. I am sure many have a very good idea of who I am, where my heart is, and how bad my spelling and typos are as well.  My goal is to one day fit it all together in one piece. 

  I am glad that you shared with us. Huggs.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 23:23:24 PM CST