Howard Dean to superdelegates: settle it by July 1

The high ground has left the building

It's too late for that. The most we can hope for is rapid regrowth on the scorched earth.

After all, there is a Clinton involved.

Sen. Clinton will not do the right thing until it's forced upon her. It's not about us as a nation. It's about her. Always will be.

Pennsylvania... I am always out of step with my life-long state. At least our courts stopped discriminating against lesbians in custody cases in the nick of time for me. Locally, anyway.

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by: LAwaters27 @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:37:59 AM CDT

you're right, it's all Clinton's fault.

After all, she's the one raising legal roadblocks to prevent the seating of delegates from MI and FL, thereby disenfranchising voters in 2 pivotal states.  Oh wait, that's Obama doing that.  Never mind....

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:46:17 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I missed something

I hadn't heard about Obama's involvement in the legalities of those two states. I thought the states legislators make that call. No one seems to have a solid proposal for handling that mess -- one that would not cause more problems of a different nature. (Not just who the presumed winner would be, but procedural problems). But I admit am not informed enough on the finer points of how it all happened.

My comment was on the gift the Clinton's have for being polarizing, divisive figures. Not meant to imply that Obama is a saint.

It strikes me as futile to call for "high ground" when a Clinton is seeking office.

Obama may be actively resisting a re-vote. My point is that it was Sen. Clinton's campaign that went to race-baiting; Muslim-baiting; scary, radical African-American Christian baiting; patriotism-baiting...

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by: LAwaters27 @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:44:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

And it gets worse and worse

Now her campaign is sending around material from The American Spectator and World net daily to fight the Obama campaign.  Could it get any sleazier?

from salon.com:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/c...

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:24:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You didn't miss anything; she's just wrong.

See my answer to her below.

You may also notice that Lurleen doesn't address the disgusting, GOP-style politics that the Clinton campaign is engaging in. No, she "contributes" to the conversation only by spreading misinformation about the FL and MI primaries.  What a shame.

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by: torrentprime @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 13:10:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You're wrong again.

Those states, in full knowledge of what it meant, chose to place their primaries outside of the time allowed by the Democratic primary. They did it knowing they would be punished by losing their delegates.  It happened, and they did.  Clinton is on record acknowledging this fact that the primaries in those states were beauty contests. Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan! You want to seat delegates from an incomplete, illegal primary? She is trying to change the rules, in the middle of the game, because it will help her.  She won a contest that didnt count and that no one else was in. Sounds like democracy to me!

"Legal roadblocks", indeed. Do you have a random word generator to write your posts?  The rules were set months ago, and Hillary is trying to CHANGE the rules, Obama wants the rules followed. In what universe is this "raising legal roadblocks"?

You're helping spread the lie of disenfranchisement by claiming that those contests were anything other than beauty contests. Whether you're doing so knowingly or not is something only you can answer.

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by: torrentprime @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 12:52:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hillary speaks up about Michigan

In her own words.  Of course, this was back when she was the inevitable nominee running as a virtual incumbent.

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

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by: RadicalRuss @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 13:08:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

smearing obama for following the rules

while BREAKING those same rules, is what this game is all about, apparently.  it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that clinton's supporters aren't afraid to engage the same tactics--blaming the michigan and florida primary fiasco on obama, in order to continue to stain his name for the sake of getting the already-defeated nominee ahead.  like clinton, they'll be happy to hand the presidency to mccain over her inevitable defeat.  

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 13:13:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Disenfranchising?

Living here in Michigan I know for a fact you are wrong.  Nobody outside the state caused the trouble here, but our own party leaders all the way up to the governor herself.  They moved the primary despite the DNC warning them that if they did, the votes wouldn't count.

The Michigan Democratic party broke the rules, plain and simple. THEY disenfranchised voters in this state.  The road blocks were brought on by their stupidity.  

Seating delegates from this bogus election would not remotely be fair since many voters stayed away, knowing their votes wouldn't count, or pissed off because their candidates weren't on the ballot, or angry that write-in votes weren't allowed, either.

Seating delegates from a primary where only one of the three then-major candidates was on th ballot smacks of Soviet-era elections.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 13:32:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Someone remind me...

Why were primaries moved so so far ahead and earlier than they have been in the past?  I've forgotten the rational.  I know California's primary wasn't until June historically, but to move it up to the first week in Feburary along with many other states which never had primaries that early????  Sure doesn't look like a good idea now.

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 13:13:38 PM CDT

Michigan

The story in-state is that Granholm and other Clinton supporters wanted to both lock up the state for her early in the primary season and make Michigan's primary "count."

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 13:33:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is a long discussion

And there are great discussions of it online, but basically this year the long-threatened events finally happened: the other states were tired of Iowa and New Hampshire (and those that immediately followed) being the end-all and be-all of the primary process. Other parts of the country wanted more influence, so they moved their primaries up.

Which is fine, as far as it went (the diversity of our country really does demand that a more balanced electorate than IA and NH can offer should drive such crucial primary momentum), but then Iowa and NH went apeshit and waited to set their primaries earlier and earlier to make sure they retained their god-given "right" to be first.  At one point, a possible scenario was floated whereby Iowa would caucus in mid-December. Add to that the fact that some states didn't move their primaries any earlier but left them in May or June, and we have an insanely long calendar.

You can argue or whether this whole thing is a bug or a feature, but it's been a very interesting year...

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by: torrentprime @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 13:38:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Levin on the primaries

Here's the letter I just got from Levin's office when i wrote complaining about the primary mess.

Dear Mr. Raphael:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the 2008 presidential nomination process and the Michigan Primary. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on this important matter.

Many voters have long been concerned about the disproportionate impact of small states like Iowa and New Hampshire on the presidential nominating process. As you may know, in 2004, the Democratic National Committee (DNC) set up a commission to review its presidential nominating procedures to allow for a more fair and representative primary process. Upon completion of this study, the DNC commission recommended a new sequence in which New Hampshire would hold the third nominating contest. It was only after New Hampshire indicated its intention to violate this official sequence and DNC officials refused to do anything about it that Michigan decided to move its primary forward.

On September 4, 2007, Governor Granholm signed state Senate Bill 624 into law (Public Act 52), which moved the Michigan presidential primary contest to January 15, 2008. In response to this move, the Democratic National Committee (DNC) made a decision to strip the Michigan Democratic Party (MDP) of its voting delegates to the 2008 nominating convention. Furthermore, several Democratic presidential candidates chose to remove their names from the Michigan primary ballot. The Republican National Committee (RNC) chose to eliminate half of the thirty Michigan Republican Party (MRP) delegates to its 2008 nominating convention.

I am disappointed by the decisions made by both national party committees to deny delegates their seats at the nominating conventions. Unfortunately, this development represents yet another example of the hammerlock Iowa and New Hampshire hold on the national party committees to perpetuate their unjustified first in the nation status in holding presidential caucuses and primaries. I supported efforts to move Michigan's primary to an earlier date because I believe that many states, including Michigan, have critically important issues they want the presidential candidates to address.

I have long been concerned that the presidential nominating process has been unduly dominated by two states, Iowa and New Hampshire, neither of which reflects our nation's diversity. Because these two states demand the right to have the first caucus and the first primary, candidates visit those states more often than probably all of the remaining states combined during the primary and caucus season and focus on issues important to those states.

For these reasons, I am an original cosponsor of the Fair and Representative Presidential Primaries Act (S.2024), which was introduced by Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL) on September 6, 2007. This bill would provide for rotating interregional primaries and caucuses for the selection of delegates to presidential nominating conventions. S.2024 would allow states to decide the process by which they nominate delegates, while prescribing the order in which primaries and caucuses take place. This legislation would group states into six specific regions: Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Midwest, Southwest, West, and Southeast. This bill would determine six separate primary election dates, where one state from each region would be assigned to vote. This would allow for a more representative nomination process where a random sample of states would vote for their presidential nominees, thus limiting any undue influence from a specific region of the country. S.2024 has been referred to the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration where it awaits further consideration.

Some members of the Democratic Party have called for new primary elections or caucuses in Michigan. In recent weeks, I have been working diligently with other Michigan leaders to resolve the question of seating Michigan's delegates to the Democratic National Convention. Unless an agreement is reached before the nominating convention, the issue of seating Michigan's delegates will be addressed by the Democratic Convention Credentials Committee.

As you may know, I have not yet endorsed a candidate for the 2008 presidential contest. There are two outstanding candidates in my party seeking the presidential nomination. The debate over who will represent my party is vigorous and healthy, and I look forward to enthusiastically supporting the eventual nominee in the 2008 presidential election.

While I continue to follow the primary campaign, you can be assured that I will work toward a more representative and fair presidential nomination process. Thank you again for contacting me.

Sincerely,
Carl Levin

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 14:29:58 PM CDT

why such a mess

they need to figure out earlier, john mccain will be too powerful.  hillary should drop out she is hurting the party and Obama has more delegates.

url]

http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com

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by: hippie4lyfe @ Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 20:16:06 PM CDT

I agree fully,

  I am so tired of the mud slinging going on.  McCain is going to have a walk in the park by the time this mess is over.  

 I have heard enough from Hillary and Bill that I will not vote for Hillary if she is the Democratic Nom.  I will admit I have not been a Hillary supporter as I just don't trust the Clintons but would have voted for her anyway over the republican.  But not anymore.

 Given her 3:00 am phone call crap and saying McCain would be better, her not wanting to do away with all of DOMA. The latest Smears regarding Wright.  That did it for me.

 If it is Hillary, I will vote 3rd party.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 01:26:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]