Sally Kern's bigotry is sinking Oklahoma's economic ship

Oh, My Goodness!

My head is spinning with things I want to say just from Sally's last two paragraphs above. Just a couple...I have to say just a couple.

So Sally thinks that her mother was sinning when she was conceived, even though (we assume) her mother and father were married at the time. I guess this means Sally thinks ALL sex is a sin, even het. sex inside of marriage. HER POOR HUSBAND.

Now that doesn't mean that the mother wasn't married or like that. It means that we have a sinful nature. And all of us are capable of doing whatever, the grossest thing. OK? But because of God's grace we don't.

Is it just me or is Sally saying that she may indeed have sinful/homosexual/"grossest" thoughts but by the "grace of God" she doesn't follow through with these thoughts/deeds/"things"?

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by: Fiona @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 11:18:01 AM CDT

I knew it...

She's really a closeted shrimper, but through God's sweet grace, she doesn't dare otherwise she's sent to hell, because that's where dirty shrimpers go when they die. She's a filth hound, I just knew it.

It's true cuz the Bible told her so--she has the audio version so it literally told her.

Curses! My million dollar ideas foiled again: "God Bless Your Brand!" http://www.christvertising.com/

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by: TJ McFisty @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 11:36:24 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

....sorry can't find it.

I'll bite.... what's a shrimper?

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 15:31:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

if i had to guess (which i do)

i'd guess it means "mackerel snapper".

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Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 17:04:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

urbandictionary.com

is the site I normally visit when I bump into a slang term I don't know.

If you want allies, you have to be an ally.

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by: dale @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 20:47:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Shrimper?

Back in the 80's when I was coming of age I had a huge list of sex slang stuff in soem book that had hanky codes and such.  I distinctly remember "shrimping" as a reference to toe sucking.

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by: techfun @ Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:47:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Her poor husband?

I think you can assume that a man who's stayed with her for any length of time probably doesn't rank sex all that high on his list.

Oklahoma has one of the highest divorce rates in the country. A raving prude like Mrs. Kerns passes for a normal person thereabouts. These facts are not unrelated.

* * *
By the way, am I the only one who thinks Kerns' speaking voice  sounds just like Mr. Mackey's on South Park?

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by: MollyNYC @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 15:22:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I suppose

he thinks it's a sin too. They seem like two peas in a pod.

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by: Fiona @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 15:48:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The notion that all sex is sinful

has been a cornerstone of KKKristian doctrine since the Middle Ages, when Pope Gregory the Great pronounced, "Sensual pleasure can never be without sin."  It is at the root of the squirrelly concept of "original sin" and it is ultimately why the KKKristian loonies believe we are all sinful (though I doubt many of them know the roots of this pernicious belief, Sally certainly included)--we came into being as a result of sinful pleasure, after all.  Even if there were no other reason to object to KKKristianity, the fact that its practitioners are trying to impose a medieval world view on women and men in the 21st century should be enough.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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by: QScribe @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 15:38:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Churches and religion are instruments of retaining power

I think your reference to the middle ages is very important here - and scary, since nothing has changed in the way religion and churches work.

Looking at medieval times you'll see that church and religion were mainly tools to control the masses: if churches can make everyone believe she or he is born as a sinner and needs the church to become a better person (= end up in heaven) they have the ultimate power.

That's why churches were a significant part of government 600 years ago - and that's why they shouldn't be today.

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by: rupi3000 @ Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 07:15:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

She's bats**t crazy

The only thing that makes any sense at all is that she has glitter for brains.  I think she's even more unhinged than our own Michele Bachmann (MN 6th).  

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by: dr haber @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 11:39:59 AM CDT

She's single handedly destroying Oklahoma's economy

Oklahoma is not a wealthy state as it is. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sonics relocation doesn't go through. OKC Mayor Mick Cornett has worked his butt off to get an NBA team to come to OKC (which is looking promising with the Sonics) and Sally Kern is doing everything she can to undermine it even though such a move would HUGELY benefit her district.

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by: AggieCowboy @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 11:53:10 AM CDT

The OK Government is complicit

By not denouncing Kern for what she is, they're tacitly showing that they agree with her. I wouldn't want to relocate a company to that sort of climate.

If, instead, the government of OK treated Sally the way she'd be treated in a family situation -- the crazy Aunt that they keep the kids away from -- then there'd be less concerns about the state as a place of business.

Kern may have started things but if OK loses business, the  top executives and representatives of the states, not just crazy Aunt Sally, are to blame.

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by: the.sue @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:10:02 PM CDT

Agreed, the Republicans in the State House

even gave her a standing ovation! Some of the Democrats have condemned her words, but not have not been as vocal as she has been...maybe this will give them the kick in the ass they need.

But then, here in OK

Republican = Far Right Religious Extremist
Democrat = Moderate Republican

Fortunately, there is Hope. There are a few bright lights flickering in the Darkness and many Okies are, fortunately, fed up with Inhofe.

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by: AggieCowboy @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:48:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

the key to understanding the religious bigots

the everyday homosexual just wants to be left alone

Translation: If they would just shut the hell up, so that we don't have to be confronted with the reality of their existence, then everything would be just grand!

the God that I know and love in His Word, a loving God, would not call something a sin and an abomination, and then make someone where they did not have a choice

Does it not occur to her that this is a very good argument for why being homosexual is not a choice? I.e., If God is love, and God makes no mistakes, then God must be OK with homosexuals, since God created them, and all ...

We are all born in sin

I think this is the key to understanding the religious bigots on this topic (and perhaps others, as well): They believe that people are inherently evil, and that the only way to ensure that people "do the right thing" is to threaten them with some terrible fate if they fail to do so. I see this formulation all of the time: "Without religion, there is no basis for morality." IOW, if you don't believe that there is a God who will:

1. Tell you what is right and wrong, and

2. Punish you if do wrong ...

... then how do you know what is right and what is wrong, and then why would anyone do the right things if there were no punishment for doing the wrong things ... followed by an explanation of the evils of moral relativism, etc, etc.

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by: rx7ward @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:10:28 PM CDT

good observations, but

i don't believe for a minute that the fundies actually think that "all people are born in sin" the way they claim to.  they certainly never use the argument--and they use it all the time--for anything else other than to bash gays.  it's an underhanded way of trying to create the illusion that they are not just picking on homosexuals, when in fact, they are.

it's also a way of saying saying that even if gays are born homosexual, then it is still a sin and it must be overcome.  it neatly shuts down a discussion about whether homosexuality has a biological component.  "we are all born in sin", but it's funny that their sins never get them denied civil rights, isn't it?  

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:57:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Right on, but ...

... see any discussion of atheism, for example. "Without a belief in God, there can be no morality. A lack of belief in God leads straight to 'anything goes,' and we all know that's a disaster!"

It's a vicious circle: people can't be born gay, because God loves us, and being gay is a sin; so, if a person is gay, they must have chosen to be, since people can't be born gay, because God loves us, and being gay is a sin ...

Rinse, repeat.

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by: rx7ward @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 13:23:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

atheism and morality

Take a look at what Conservapedia states about atheism and morality (anyone who is familiar with Conservapedia will not be suprised): http://www.conservapedia.com/A...

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by: djj @ Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:04:05 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sally Kern doesn't care

about economic benefit or even representing her constituents. All she cares about is forcing her religious beliefs and worldview on others by force if necessary.

Never try to train a pig. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.

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by: cali_techie @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:12:25 PM CDT

she has to hang tough

because otherwise she must admit that everything she has believed in has been a sham.  that's too painful for people like her.  i'm guessing that she is shouting her spew even louder now because she must continually convince herself that she hasn't been a chump for all these years.  and the public pressure of the situation is making that harder and harder for her to believe...

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Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:30:54 PM CDT

She's also facing the loss of her Seat of Power

from which she can force her choice of religion on other people. If she had simply issued the standard non-apology apology and kept her mouth shut, she probably wouldn't have had a challenger come November. But now, as Lurleen said, she can't back down without looking like a snake-oil salesman.

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by: AggieCowboy @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 12:58:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why would anybody in their right mind....

even consider relocating to OKC? It's a poor provencial backwater that's smack in the middle of one of the poorest, least educated, most backward, bigoted, and crazy states in the country. You'd be much better off to just pick a suburb of Dallas. At least it has the critical mass to have something resembling civilization in that part of the world.  

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by: vanitysmurf @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 13:19:42 PM CDT

silly sally

silly sally has been quiet lately.  is she ok, should i send a get well card?

http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com

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by: hippie4lyfe @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 13:30:04 PM CDT

knowingly committing to ignorance

I'm stunned by this:

It means that we have a sinful nature. And all of us are capable of doing whatever, the grossest thing. OK? But because of God's grace we don't. OK.

What she's arguing is the idea that if I as a human being, with a brain that supports complex problem solving skills and language, use reason and logic to come to a path of action, I'm acting without God and thereby evilly.  It's only by the grace of something external(something that I don't personally believe in) that I'm not out killing and hurting random people on the street. That's just insanity.  It really is.  

I've haven't met many thinking atheists excited about going out and killing or hurting people, or extremely dangerous behavior.  By Kern's logic, that should be happening a good deal more often.  Personally, I value life to an extreme degree.  My belief is that it's extremely likely that is my, and everyone else's, only chance at consciousness. So life is extremely precious from my point of view.

Many people live happy content lives with gods other than Kern's and some with no god at all. The most stunning answer I've gotten from fundamentalists over the years is to this question: "What about people who practice other religions just as passionately as you do yours?"

The answer has invariably been a variation on, "Well, their wrong aren't they? My bible is the living word of God."

It's frightening that Kern has power. She is committed to avoiding reason and critical thinking.

And I love the "everyday homosexual" bit (and now I'm pissed and going to vent).  "They don't go vote very often."  WTF does that mean?  Am I a radical homosexualist because I vote?!?! Seriously WTF!!! Is she saying I shouldn't be voting? Is an elected official implying that!?!?!?

Do I move from "everyday homosexual" to "aggressive radical homosexual" because I want to do something as extreme as file joint federal taxes?  How about being able enjoy safety from being fired for being gay or not masculine/feminine enough?  How about wanting to raise a family?  Do those things - the things that hets can typically take for granted as they live their everyday average lives - does wanting those very mundane things move me into the "aggressive radical homosexual" category?

Also, her meter drives me nuts.  Every time that I read her transcripts I think that I could be reading George W. Bush.  The two are a fine pair.

Electricity's for light bulbs!

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by: n8nyc @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 13:46:30 PM CDT

ugh and lol

there is one magical thing I believe in.

It's a magical condition (in an RPG it would be an "effect") wherein I can't detect sloppy grammar, stilted or immature phrasing, and messy sentence structure until after I've clicked Post. Preview doesn't seem to alleviate the condition.

:)

Electricity's for light bulbs!

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by: n8nyc @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 13:54:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

...oh heavens yes.

ALL THE TIME, everytime it seems. I can preview xxxxxx times and BINGO.. typo.

This comment is Highly Recommended. 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 15:24:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yep, I can't explain it

or escape it! lol.

Electricity's for light bulbs!

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by: n8nyc @ Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 17:41:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"There but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford."

Sally's theology is rather interesting. It's like she and her husband have chosen a grab-bag of theological stances and jumbled them all together. Then again, this seems to be a more common occurrence in Evangelical faiths.

Sally's views of sin are based on the concept of the original sin; that Adam and Eve's sin remains upon all of their descendants (all of mankind.) This is why she says that she was born in the sin of her mother, because her mother is a sinful creature and has passed that sin nature onto her offspring.

However, it's interesting that Sally tends to lean into the Calvinistic theology of Total Depravity when it comes to the nature of sin.

Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.

What I find really interesting is that she certainly must reject other parts of the 5 points of Calvinism, especially the concept of Limited Atonement.

Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect.

This, in effect, says that God only chose certain people to be saved, and all others who were not chosen will burn in the lake of fire (where Hell will be cast) for all eternity. I'm guessing Sally would only claim to be a 4-Point Calvinist at this point, as the Arminian stance of retribution is more forgiving, and thus, more trendy right now.

What's interesting about Sally's theology is how she makes it work for her, and assumes that everyone follows suit. She agrees with Total Depravity (in some form), but rejects what it truly means. She realizes that she's capable of any sin (even homosexuality - her view, not mine) but doesn't practice it in real life. She should realize that she's capable of becoming a lesbian at any point, but for the grace of God, and should thus have compassion on the LGBT community. Instead, she goes on witch-hunts of sin, and demonizes and slanders those "sinners" in the LGBT community.

Sorry about the Sunday School lesson; I just wanted to help you maybe understand a bit more about her twisted theology and where she's coming from. Then again, even with an Associates Degree in Theology (lame, I know) I still don't really know where she's grabbing her own version of her Christian god from.

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by: Rick @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 16:33:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks Rick

I'm always interested in understanding this stuff.

From my fundy upbringing I have a clear memory about a time when "book of life" stuff came up. The church spent effort letting everyone know they could ask Jesus into their heart and earn eternal salvation; it was there for "even the worst" (language that Kern reminds me of).

I was pre-adolescent and very frightened to learn that I could still go to hell despite having earnestly accepted Christ as my own personal savior. I asked how the two ideas could coexist. I pretty much got a "They just do and don't worry, you're saved" type of answer.  So, I think you're right, if Kern is a typical fundy, she must reject Limited Atonement.

I'd guess that a lottery system for entry into heaven wouldn't be so great for recruitment. The church I was in was always encouraging us to do all we could to increase the flock.

So, now I'm even more amazed at her lack of logic and continuity in an area where she professes devoutness.  

Electricity's for light bulbs!

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by: n8nyc @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 17:40:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

it sounds pretty serious, except.....

"Expect to take healthy risks. Expect to do everything I will ask you to do. Expect that some of the program may be a mystery to
you. EXPECT TO WORK HARD from the beginning-we will not waste time. Expect intense feelings to come up as you work
these tasks and processes. Expect the opportunity to experience the three A's (approval, affirmation, affection). Expect to be
supported via "911" calls during the week if you're having an unusual challenge.
Expect to be heard, supported, challenged, & to ask for what you want & need from another man. Expect your feelings of
masculinity/manhood to grow, depending directly on how hard you work."

sounds a little dirty (in a good way) to me!

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 13:48:32 PM CDT

oops, wrong article....sorry!

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 13:49:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

For the Bible tells me so....

How those words ring loud and proud throughout all their arguments. I'm sick of it. And it's always a "pick and choose" when it comes to quoting. To me, it's all or nothing. If you're going to quote some of it for your justification, then be prepared to be held to the same standard by all of it. Here's something I found on another blog. It made me laugh, but it is soooo true, and I WISH I could take credit for it. I wonder how many of these lil miss Sally k-k-kern has broken:

Exodus 21:7 talks of a man selling his daughter into slavery. Is it then ok to sell your daughter into slavery? Have you sold yours?

Leviticus 15:19 says when a woman has her period she should be isolated for seven days. Man, that's a lot of sick days. I hope you work from home!

Leviticus 25:44 says you can own slaves. Bit of a touchy subject these days, but if the bible says so...

Exodus 35:2 says anyone who works on the sabbath should be put to death. Guess that explains all the cars at the grocery store on Sunday. Must be there to witness the killing.

Leviticus 21:16-21 says God can't stand the sight of handicapped people. The blind, the lame, dwarfs, people with funny noses or blemishes, with damaged testicles, or broken hands or feet, crooked backs, or who have scurvy or scabs, or who have anything superfluous must not approach the altar of God. A lot of hot nightclubs are like that too. Hmm...Leviticus 21...good name for a club! Only the best of the best are allowed.

Leviticus 19:27 says you can't trim your beard. There go my shares in Gillette.

Leviticus 19:19 says you can's plant two different crops in a field or wear clothing of mixed fabrics. Have you ever planted a garden? I hope for the sake of your soul that it was all zucchini. And that better not be a poly-cotton blend you put on this morning.

And so many more.

I used to be one of those "everyday homosexuals," living my everyday life, but since I've been over here in Europe, it's amazing how angry I'm getting at what is going on at home. Was I blissfully blind before or is distance allowing me to finally have a clear picture? I've been so angry the last few weeks with one story after another, I can easily become her worst nightmare!

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by: USgayInRomania @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 13:49:19 PM CDT

Leviticus 25:44 Goes On to Say

that we may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. Does this apply to both Mexicans and Canadians? I know a few Canadians who won't take kindly to this.

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by: Fiona @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 15:00:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

.....see the MOVIE!!!

"FOR THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO""  is very very good at stripping away all the phoney 'Christianness' of these people. They can keep their god. I want mine fair and forgiving and equality promoting.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 15:21:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And the bible tells me so . . .

I, for one, have stopped stoning people who work on the Sabbath. My orthopedist has informed me that I will require Tommy John surgery if I continue to inflict all the wear and tear on my rotator cuff. I wonder if it's OK to just shoot the apostates instead. Of course, either way, it does become tedious and makes such a mess. It's really hard to clean viscera off concrete pavement and the stonees simply won't cooperate sufficiently to locate themselves on linoleum.

"Neither Lifestyle nor Agenda"

http://tips-q.com

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by: davidhart @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 15:28:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sally's god is the same as Fred's god

  Now what god does she know?  I am guessing the same one the WBC clan know and according to the WBC clan their god hates.

 Come on Sally, say how you really feel.  Get on stage with the Fred Phelps Clan and chant out loud.  Carry a few signs.  Topeka isn't that far way.

 

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 13:52:15 PM CDT

She says this stuff out loud?

My ex wife had the habit of saying whatever came into her mind without any edit on it.   We all have some wild thoughts that run through our minds at times, but if we just let fly with the wildest of them then we make ourselves look insane.

Then again some people are insane and the talk is ignorant and out loud.

I think Sally Kern is in the latter group.  

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by: mike mid city @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 13:56:58 PM CDT

The Temptation Theory

Ever wondered why some people are so rabidly homophobic and some (equally socially conservative folks) are not?  My theory is that those who most want gay people to hide away in the closets of the world are the people who are most tempted to indulge in a lil girl-on-girl or boy-on-boy of their own.  They really believe that being gay is giving in to the temptation of sin because they personally are tempted by it.

Sally Kern is a good example, talking about the temptation of homosexuality...  Tempting for whom?  Surround me with butterscotch candies, and I'll never be tempted to sneak one.  Chocolates, on the other hand?  Well, let's just say I'd need intervention to resist.  Seems our girl Sally in the same way finds the lesbo lasses tempting and needs the government to help save her from indulging in any sinful snacking.

Homophobia is such an apt term, because it applies to the fear of the homosexual self.  

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by: h0ipolloi @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 14:41:03 PM CDT

Not just temptation, action

If nobody is in the closet, then the Larry Craigs of the world have no one to get it on with.  I seriously think the bisexuals/gays who marry opposite sex partners prefer that gay sex remain at a certain level of taboo because then things like bathhouses and backrooms flourish and they have more opportunities for quickies on the side.  Look at how incredibly few male strip clubs there are in the country at a time when tolerance of gays is at it's peak.  It's like we ruined their setup by coming out or something.

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by: bgkev @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 15:14:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

...study has been done.

See notes from Violet Blues column in SF Chronicle a few weeks ago. A study was done on professed heterosexual males, they were shown various photos, benign, het erotic, het porn and all males erotic and m/m porn.  Penile tumescence was measured (yes you can, easily actually). True het males got aroused only with all female pictures or het porn. Professed 'homophobes' were aroused with the all male and m/m porn pictures also.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 15:17:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sally needs thorazine...

...that's really about the only thing that can offer her any peace.

The woman is, tragically, mentally ill.

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by: Storm @ Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 21:35:48 PM CDT