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FL - It's Not Called the Hate Amendment for Nothing

by: quinnelk

Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:25:48 AM EDT


(Pastor Wicker's been drinking too much fundie moonshine. - promoted by pam)

Wow.  At first glance, that's all I can say about the comments from Pastor Hayes Wicker of Naples, Florida.  Here's what he said at an anti-gay event last week:


This is a tremendous social crisis, greater even than the issue of slavery.

Wow.  

quinnelk :: FL - It's Not Called the Hate Amendment for Nothing
For those who don't know, fundamentalist right-wingers in Florida are attempting to pass a constitutional amendment in Florida this year that would ban gay marriage in the Sunshine State.  The same gay marriage that is already illegal under four separate parts of state law.  And this amendment wouldn't just ban gay marriage, it would also prevent civil unions, cities and corporations from offering benefits to gay couples and anyone from giving benefits to unmarried straight couples.  But let's leave aside the practical implications of the proposed gay marriage ban in question, I've talked about that in the past and I'll come back to it over and over again throughout the year, let's look at the hate ingrained in this particular phrase.


This is a tremendous social crisis, greater even than the issue of slavery.

Keep in mind, this isn't about banning gay marriage.  Gay marriage is already banned in Florida under four different laws.  What this nutjob is actually saying is that the fact that they haven't yet enshrined hatred in the Florida Constitution, despite not one single legal gay marriage ever taking place in Florida, is not only a "tremendous social crisis," but one greater than slavery.  That shows an astounding amount of hatred not only for gay people, but for African Americans as well.

Let's take a quick look at the history of slavery and its outgrowths in American history:

  • Slavery caused approximately 30 million people to be ripped out of their homes, families and lives
  • Slavery included the horrible conditions of the Middle Passage, where the cramped, diseased and abusive conditions led to the deaths of as many as 15 million people
  • Slavery in America was hundreds of years of the near total subjugation of an entire class of people
  • Slavery involved the beating, flogging, raping, and murder of millions of people
  • Slavery tore apart families, kept people illiterate, and kept most in abject poverty
  • Slavery nearly destroyed the United States
  • Slavery led to the death of one of America's greatest presidents
  • Slavery transformed into sharecropping, tenant farming and the prison-lease system, which combined to keep most African Americans in virtual slavery through the beginning of the twentieth century
  • Slavery laid the groundwork for Jim Crow, lynching, a corrupt justice system, assassination and the long-term economic deprivation of African Americans long past the end of slavery

Now, for comparison's sake, let's take a quick look at the history of no gay marriages in Florida and the fact that the ban on gay marriage isn't in the Florida constitution:

  • Gay marriage ripped no one out of their home, family or life
  • Gay marriage included no Middle Passage
  • Gay marriage killed no one
  • Gay marriage led to the subjugation of no one
  • Gay marriage involved no beatings, floggings, rapes or murder
  • Gay marriage tore apart no families, kept no one illiterate and led to no poverty
  • Gay marriage has had no negative effect on the United States
  • Gay marriage killed no presidents
  • Gay marriage transformed into no forced subjugation or de facto slavery
  • Gay marriage did not lay the groundwork for segregation, lynching, corruption, assassination or economic deprivation

One of these things is not like the other.

And just in case you weren't convinced by that quote that this was all about hate, the article goes further:


Without such an amendment or a law, Wicker said, it could lead to legal marriages in Florida between "man and dog" and "father and child."

Wow.

This isn't just about hatred, it's about stupidity.  How is it possible for someone to be so wrong and so misguided about so much?  In the annals of critical thinking there is a logical fallacy known as the slippery slope.  Simply put the argument that one step in a particular direction guarantees that we will continue down that path towards worse outcomes.  In the real world, it's hardly ever true.  In this case, it's incredibly untrue.  First off, without this amendment, gay marriage is still illegal in Florida.  And even if gay marriage were legal, the fact that two consenting adult humans who are unrelated could marry would in no way legally require bestiality or incest being made legal.  It's the height of silliness to think otherwise.  Those things would still be illegal under other laws, including federal constitutional law.  Beyond that, the people who support the legality of gay marriage don't support the legality of bestiality or incest.  In fact, they all oppose it.  Just like everyone else.  And if gay marriage were made legal, it wouldn't change anyone's opinion on these other issues.  How do we know?  Because gay marriage is legal in several places.  Bestiality and incest aren't.  And there are no negative consequences for anyone out of that legalization.  Not one.  These arguments are ludicrous and the people that say things like:


This is a tremendous social crisis, greater even than the issue of slavery.

Or  


Without such an amendment or a law, Wicker said, it could lead to legal marriages in Florida between "man and dog" and "father and child."

are not only ignorant, they are morally bankrupt and about as un-American as a person could possibly be.  Hatred of other citizens based on their innate characteristics, particularly when those characteristics harm no one, is as close to evil as one can get without raping, molesting or killing someone.

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Sally Kern's got a boyfriend!
"I'll take your terrorism, and I'll raise you SLAVERY!"

"Oh, Wick!"

**loveybigotsounds*

http://breakthterror.blogspot.com


they are getting crazier by the second
the sad part is nobody will hold this moron accountable for that

http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com

An equally sad part...
Is that there are people who will agree with him.

[ Parent ]
The truly sad part
  Is the voters of Flor-DUH will vote for this amendment without hearing the insane BS the Jack Asses spew.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

[ Parent ]
Stunned
I really thought that I had seen/read/heard it all. I was wrong. Truly disturbing.

Never mind slavery, I can think of a hundred, a thousand, hell, with some help, I can think of literally a million things more vital to society than enshrining bigotry into our legal framework.  


If these "moral leaders"
couldn't find a way to whip their followers into a frenzy of panic verging on hysteria, they'd have nothing.  With calm, cool, rational discussion, they lose every time; so they resort to this kind of rubbish.  There are parallels to the struggle to end slavery here, but they're hardly the ones this clown has in mind.  Supporters of slavery tried to maintain their position by spreading fear--the "sure" prospect that freed slaves would overrun the South, killing their former masters and raping their wives and daughters.  Oh, and yes, they bolstered their position with arguments from the Bible.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu


[ Parent ]
Chances Are
We'll actually defeat this in Florida.  They have to get 60% for it to pass, which is unlikely, particularly if we do our part and fight it.

Florida is not the crazy red state everybody keeps saying it is.  The only things we do that make the national headlines are the bad things, but they are far from the only things happening here.


Talk it up
In my more rational moments I agree we're going to defeat this nonsense. But every once in a while I start thinking about all the yahoos who live in the hillbillyville Florida towns and cities.

Although we are very invested in defeating this amendment it is still amazing to me how many people have no clue. They have no clue that we can't get married in Florida. They have no clue we already have laws prohibiting same-sex marriage in Florida. They have no clue that this is not just a "gay marriage" amendment. They have no clue it affects seniors, anyone who works for counties with domestic partner registries, inclusive companies and straight people, too.
And I live in South Florida!!

I have been talking to everyone I know and meet about why we need to SayNo2 Amendment 2. Last weekend I had lunch with my mother (South Florida) and sister (Orlando). While waiting for our meal I started talking about why we need to vote no and gave them information pamphlets. My sister who hasn't registered to vote since she moved to Orlando 8 years ago said she was going to register. My mother started asking all kinds of questions, realized it affected domestic partnerships and then stated "I would never vote for this amendment. Most importantly it discriminates against your relationship. And it would also affect some of my friends who are domestic partners. I'm going to have to tell everyone I know not to vote for this." These words from my Mom, who at age 72 (4 years ago) when she learned I (at 49) was in my 1st same-sex relationship said "I guess I'll have to get used to it."

You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think.  


[ Parent ]
Of course it's more important!
Much as he would like to re-introduce Slavery, it's not that big a deal any more, and hasn't been for some time.
Remember, the Southern Baptists split from the Baptists over the issue in 1848.

There is no situation so complex it can't get even worse

This Amendment is Unconstitutional
The SCOTUS ruled so in Romer v. Evans.

But that aside, fucking ridiculous statement.


okay
Without such an amendment or a law, Wicker said, it could lead to legal marriages in Florida between "man and dog" and "father and child."

I've been to the backwoods of Florida (one of my ex's was from there).....and no offense meant to Floridians.....but they already have that without gay marriage.

Help defend equality, visit One Kalamazoo http://www.onekalamazoo.com/


No offense taken by this civilized Floridian
Just last week we read about the yahoos in hillbillyville

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/...

I'm convinced that Florida needs to be divided into 2 different states: Civilized people to the south, hillbillies to the north.


You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think.  


[ Parent ]
Ahem
I'll have you know that two of the most progressive cities in the state are Tallahassee and Gainesville, which aren't in the South.

[ Parent ]
"man and dog" and "father and child."
As though those "organized movements" would ever gather steam - even if it were true that animals could sign marriage contracts, and that some people are only capable of experiencing romantic love with members of their own offspring.

Furthermore, one important reason parent/offspring marriages are illegal is to prevent parents from "grooming" their kids as potential mates, thereby confusing the protector role of parents with that of potential predator.

By use of these slippery slope examples, either Pastor Wicker is a complete idiot AND has done no research on the subject, or his concern is an intentional lie.

Actually, it's probably all three.  


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