Alabama: 20/20 experiment on gay PDA generates 911 call

Phone 911?

"There weren't many children who saw the couples showing affection in Birmingham, but there were plenty of adults who did."

I'm not so sure all of them could be classed as adults. The clown who phoned 911 ought to be up on charges for the misuse of an emergency number.

---

by: Carbonchild @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:12:24 AM CDT

"Sweet" Comment

Just saw some clips of the piece on Towleroad, and, to be fair, there was at least one woman who told the male couple they looked sweet sitting there as well, and the commentator mentioned most people did not have any problem with it. Of course, they only showed those who did have a problem, but that's TV for you.  

---

by: CPT_Doom @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:28:14 AM CDT

are you talking about the

New Jersey portion. Because Pam did mention the woman who said it was sweet, but the was in New Jersey (as I read it).

But I do have to wonder....although Pam said they might react negatively to a straight couple doing something more sexual, I wonder if that would be the case. (we might have to set up an experiment :)

As we saw with the "As the World Turns" gay kiss clip, a tame goodbye kiss was seen by homophobes as "making out" or highly sexual in nature.

Of course we live in a world were the FBI and military kepts (keeps) files on student groups who held "Kiss ins" at military recruitment centers, to protest "Don't ask" and listed these protests as terrorist acts (add this to my file!)  

Help defend equality, visit One Kalamazoo http://www.onekalamazoo.com/

---

by: Mattkazoo @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:02:03 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thought it was Alabama

But I may have misunderstood the clip I was watching.  

---

by: CPT_Doom @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:16:06 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, it was AL

No, the woman who sat across from the men, told them they were sweet, and even said "you'll like Birmingham, we're very accepting" (or something to that effect) was in Alabama.

As usual, the piece played up anti-Southern attitudes and all of the previews made you think the Alabamans would all be preaching hellfire and brimstone, but in fact, they talked to quite a few who didn't have a problem with it.

I do wish they had mentioned the fact that some of us don't want to see PDA in public period, whether same-sex or opposite-sex in nature. While I salute those same-sex couples who feel comfortable enoguh to make out in public, I personally don't want to see that level of affection from ANY couple, and it's possible that some of the wrinkled-nose crowd felt the same way.

---

by: kmpintj @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 13:10:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

sorry, kmpintj

I didn't see your comment before posting the same thing below...

But I agree with the comments on anti-Southern attitudes.  When I lived in Philadelphia, at least once a week someone would yell "faggot" from the window of a car at my boyfriend and me--and that's without doing anything daring like holding hands.  (We also constantly had stuff thrown at us from car windows, etc.  It has to be the most homophobic place I've ever lived in....)

---

by: Diogenes @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 16:01:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

PDA in Philly

My partner & I stayed in Philly 3 yrs. ago. We were near Penns Landing. A GLBT event happened to be going on that week. We did hold hands in public and had no comments or confrontations. Maybe lesbians get more leeway.

Our scariest encounter was on a pier near San Francisco! Very hostile looks and posturing from an African-American couple passing where we stood. Nothing happened, but it was the most worried I felt in public.

---

by: LAwaters27 @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 16:08:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

She was in Alabama

and she even chats with the guys, welcomes them to town and tries to convince them that "Birmingham is a very good place"!

---

by: Diogenes @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 15:57:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ok

I miss-understood the text version. Made it sound like she was one of the people in New Jersey. the quote was in the wrong place.

Help defend equality, visit One Kalamazoo http://www.onekalamazoo.com/

---

by: Mattkazoo @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 17:16:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Dept. of Irony

When I went to the ABC link to watch the video, I had to see an ad first.

Recruiting for the Air Force.

---

by: doctorscience @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:46:41 AM CDT

Not that hard.

"I don't really find it inappropriate, especially during the day when schoolchildren aren't running around. They might get confused and want an answer for what's going on," bystander Mary-Kate told us. The majority of the people who spoke about children seemed to echo Mary-Kate's feelings. They are indifferent to gay PDA but did not want to, or know how to, address homosexuality with children.

Those men are in love, like Mommy and Daddy.  People who are in love, kiss each other like that.

or

Those are gay men, they're dating each other, and that's what couples do sometimes.

I think what some straight people have trouble with, and this reveals some inner homophobia, they're afraid of explaining homosexuality in some type of broad or open way that might lead their kids to experiment with it at a young age.  Like if they say "oh those are two boys who like each other"  Most boys make friends with other boys, and that involves "liking" the other boys to a degree, but not in a romantic way.  They're afraid of accidentally suggesting that little boys should try to kiss their friends or something.

---

by: PunkZanyJ @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:49:38 AM CDT

same-sex "experimentation" by children

On this subject, I was interested to hear from my older daughter, who's now 23, that she made out with several of her girl friends in high school. She identifies herself as heterosexual. I suspect this kind of experimentation is really common! Ironically, I identified as bi-sexual at an early age, which made me afraid to do any experimenting... (this was 4 decades ago, times have changed, thank goodness!)

---

by: CathyG @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:01:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Was there a control group?

This would have been more effective if straight couples engaging in the same level of PDA had been planted in the same parks. Not that we really need the experiment to accept the hypothesis that a straight couple nuzzling on a bench won't spur a 911 call, but, you know...

---

by: boltgirl @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:00:14 AM CDT

Right

Yes, I just mentioned this above--disliking the sight of people making out in public may be more related more to the ACT than the gender of those involved. They never seemed to mention this in the piece.

---

by: kmpintj @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 13:12:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is familiar...

As the same thing happened to my boyfriend and me. We were a Junior and Senior in high school respectively last summer, and I had just returned from a two week trip to Alaska. We met in Williamson County in Tennessee in the town of Brentwood, which is known for the rich people who live there (as in there were neighborhoods filled with multimillion dollar homes), and in this area wealth comes with financial conservatism, which meant social conservatism is likely to follow as well. Anyway, I came to a public park to meet him, we kissed, hugged, exchanged gifts, hugged, sat down on a bench, put our arms around each other, and just chatted - very straightforward stuff. Also, I will note we were along a jogging path with trees on both sides, and a small stream separating us from soccer fields. We had some interesting reactions, namely an older man who was walking his dog who just stared at us. However, the part of my story that is important is the police officer who came up to us after about 20 or so minutes of us being there because someone had apparently called 911 and complained that we were making out, which we weren't at all; The officer didn't seem interested in that fact though. He asked us a number of intrusive questions, such as where we lived and went to school, if we had a home to move ourselves to, if we were aware women and children were in the area (remember we were in a secluded area though), etc. (the last point would have been great to discuss on grounds of why that fact shouldn't matter except for the general rule you don't want to piss off an officer). He also asked to see our drivers licenses and read something off of them into his radio, which was a little disconcerting - where we now blacklisted by the police or something? He also mentioned at the beginning, albeit very unconvincingly, that he didn't care what type of a couple it was; he sounded scripted. Anyway, at the end he told us we needed to leave or presumably stop any form of PDA. We choose to leave and enjoy ourselves elsewhere. During the whole experience, though, I will note that I was dumbfounded and silent, which is probably good or I would have tried to talk and say something that could have gotten me in trouble for something like 'obstruction of justice' if it annoyed the officer. However, my boyfriend and I were left with the questions of would this have happened to a heterosexual couple (obivously not), how were we supposed to handle the situation, and could we have refused to show him our IDs, among other things.

Anyway, just wanted to share as this post really hits home for me. Can't say we got any positive comments while at the park, and I hate to think of the smirk whoever called us in must have had when they saw they were successful in pushing us from the park.

---

by: OtterXero @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:01:15 AM CDT

sounds like intimidation

Neither of you were breaking the law, what the officer was doing might fall under "profiling" or at the very least "harassment", as there was no sufficient reason for you to be told to leave.  It's a public park, and you were doing nothing illegal.

---

by: PunkZanyJ @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:27:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Had my own experience

A while back (cough....)when I was still living with my parents, this guy I was dating and I went to the public park created and owned by one of the major corporations in town (off topic, but they'rrrreeee gggrrreeeaaaaattttt!!! Kellogg's if you didn't get the reference) So this is up north.

Sitting down by the small stream there, we hugged a little and kissed a couple of times. Very tame stuff. Right as we kissed a family (parents and 2 kids) rode past on their bicycles. The mother looked down at us and smiled (as if she was saying "how cute" or something). The kids didn't even look at us at first. The father though, his face twisted up and he nearly fell off his bike.

We laughed, the mother laughed and the kids nearly fell off their bikes laughing. Over all though, once the father regained his composer, he laughed a little too. I don't know if he was really ok, or if he just pretended to be, especially since his kids didn't seem to care what we were doing.

But I have wondered about, would it have been different if his family wasn't there?

Especially since later, with the same guy (we'll call him Will), at an outdoor concert, we had a group of frat boys throw a vegetarian burrito at us as we lay on a hill (no animals were hurt in my bashing :) That was really my first anti-gay experience. And that's too long a story to share here, involving a lesbian couple who were in to two of the bands...etc.

Just thought I would share my experience  

 

Help defend equality, visit One Kalamazoo http://www.onekalamazoo.com/

---

by: Mattkazoo @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:42:24 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

More funny stories:

That reminds me of a time my boyfriend and I were walking with friends through downtown Franklin, TN. We were holding hands and happened to walk by a Catholic church with some people gathered around out front. My boyfriend and I didn't pay any attention to it, but after we had slightly passed them, my friend behind me jumped/hugged me and told me that we had just made her day. Apparently, some father who happened to look over in our direction, upon seeing us holding hands, dropped his jaw in shock and disbelief. Apparently, it was a hilarious sight. So yeah... the reactions people have can sometimes be amusing.

---

by: OtterXero @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:48:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not to defend the police

in this case. But he probably came down at first because they thought you might be having sex in the park.

A friend of mine was busted and locked up, because he met a date at a local park. The police thought they were having sex in his car, since the park was a common cruising area. (the funny part is that they gave him this pre-generated card that basically said "we have your name in our system," and listing the places he could be arrested for engaging in sex in public. Including the long stretch of road used by female prostitutes looking for male clients....the card was 100% heterosexual, even though he was not busted for anything like that.)  

Help defend equality, visit One Kalamazoo http://www.onekalamazoo.com/

---

by: Mattkazoo @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:50:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'd have to disagree because...

There was absolutey no indication that there was public sex going on, and nothing we were doing would have indicate that. Plus, I'm sure he would have made some reference to that being reported because even if that wasn't happening when he met us, it would have been reported as happening earlier, so he would have questioned us about that.

---

by: OtterXero @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:15:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think

what Matt might've been trying to say is that perhaps that park is used by some gay men for sex, and someone reported you guys under the assumption that you were going to do more than kiss each other.

I'm not defending harassing gay couples, I think it's a waste of taxpayer money.  Straight people over-sexualize everything we do to the point where they see us holding hands and immediately assume we're 2-seconds away from a live porn show.

I'm amazed the way a PG or G activity amongst straight people is suddenly XXX-rated if a gay couple does the exact same thing.

---

by: PunkZanyJ @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:33:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes that's what I meant

straight people accuse us of being over sexual....but all most homophobes seem to think about is sex, sex, and more sex.  

Help defend equality, visit One Kalamazoo http://www.onekalamazoo.com/

---

by: Mattkazoo @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 17:21:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Your experience

OtterXero,
Refusing to identify yourself when asked by a police officer is not an option.  It will immediately raise suspicion and if you persist, will likely mean a trip to the station while they fingerprint you and try to figure out who you are-not a very attractive option.  What he was doing on the radio was running your ID's to see if you had any outstanding warrants.  Sounds like intimidation, in which case you could file a complaint with the department.  Not sure if it would do much good, but you made a good call in not pissing the officer off.  I'm sorry that you had to endure that kind of treatment.

---

by: actosrep @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 14:25:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Aren't there charges

that can be brought against someone calling 911 for a non-emergency?

Pity the operator didn't mention that and hang up.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

---

by: Louise @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:25:07 AM CDT

i don't think so

unless the caller habitually misuses the number, or calls in with a clear prank.  it is in everyone's interest that people feel safe to call 911 without fear of getting a fine for misuse.  even in cases like Pam mentioned.

Lurleen on Twitter

---

by: Lurleen @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:31:49 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

It is illegal

at least in some jurisdictions.  

I very well remember a case of a teenager a few years ago--a young black male who was in a predominantly white neighborhood, got lost, and called 911 for assistance (as he'd been instructed in school).  Rather than helping, the police showed up to arrest him for using the line for a non-emergency  call.  

I couldn't find that incident in a quick search, but I did find this: a woman arrested after calling 911 to complain that her onion rings were cold.  In this case, I have a wee bit more sympathy with the officers who arrested her....
http://www.ananova.com/news/st...

---

by: Diogenes @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 16:15:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

you must be right about jurisdictions, because

our neighborhood association urges people to call 911 for non-emergencies too.  the reason is that if The Powers That Be don't see the line being used enough, there is the possibility that it will be defunded.  I haven't heard of anyone here getting arrested for doing this.

in the case of the lost teenager, is it possible that the arrest was just harassment and not legit?  he was, after all, Calling While Black.

Lurleen on Twitter

---

by: Lurleen @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 19:51:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Non-emergency calls

In my previous career in Vancouver, there were a couple of times I needed to have a car towed away in the evening that was parked in the spot that had been reserved for our work trucks. Since by-law enforcement officers only work 9-5, the process was to call 911 and they would dispatch a squad car to come by to tag and tow the vehicle. However, when calling 911, when they answered, the first words to say are: "This is NOT an emergency." That way if it is busy, they can ask you to call back later.

---

by: Stephanie @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 00:39:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

One does wish his buddies would kid him for looking stupid on TV....

---

by: NancyP @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 19:41:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Against the Law of God

It's clearly stated in the Apocrypha's Book of Parks :

There shall be no kissing, canoodling or contact of any kind between the man and the man and the woman and the woman. If they deny the Word of God and seek each other's lips or hands or arms, a curse be on the grass around them, may it wither and die and may the bench upon which they sit be seized by carpenter ants. . . .

And so on.


"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

---

by: Lev Raphael @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:42:41 AM CDT

Fair's fair

If himself and I can "play" outside w/o comment, so should everyone else.

So saith the Book of Louise. (it's a very thin book)  

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

---

by: Louise @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:47:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

...imagine calling 911 with

Yes, that's what I said they're canoodling.. you've got to make them stop.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 15:32:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

LOL

Canoodlers Beware!

watashi no yomeiri wa doko desu ka

---

by: belfrieboi @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 09:29:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Making Out?

I've noticed that there seems to be a lot of subjectiveness on the subject of PDA.

One man's "chaste kiss" is another man's "making out".

In an effort to be clear, I'll say what I consider G-Rated PDA.

-holding hands.

-Short, quick kisses (lips or cheek) that number less than 5 in a row or last less than 30 seconds.

-Open Mouth kissing that is either rare, or is very brief, and is less than 5 in a row in the same amount of time.

-Touching of a nonsexual nature.  A quick pat on the butt, or a quick squeeze is one thing...multiple times, with increasing intensity is another.  Casually running fingertips down the partner's arm or back.

-Hugs, arms around each other, laying/leaning on one another.

And The "GET A ROOM" PDA:

-Kissing with tongue, that lasts more than 5 to 10 seconds.
-Groping(grabbing and holding breasts, crotch, butt).
-Anything that is obviously building in intensity, passion, vigor, etc.
-Regular PDA that continues, lingers more than a minute or two.  
-Touching each other's genitals above or underneath clothing.
-Foreplay.
-Doing something that visibly arouses the other partner.

None of this is hard, fast, rules, i'm not carrying around a stopwatch, or counting the number of kisses, it's just a general idea.
For me, the key is "Is there a build?".  Is the action saying, "I like you", "I love you" or "I WANT YOU NOW!"

I also take responsibility for the fact that I am watching someone else.  I always have the option of looking away, and it is not polite to stare.  I think, in some cases, those that are offended by PDA are blaming someone else because they can't/won't look away.  

---

by: PunkZanyJ @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 14:36:53 PM CDT

Right...

I agree with the PDA levels thing you're describing. What I described my boyfriend and I doing above was all G-rated as you've labeled it. However, I also have trouble understanding people who don't like PDA as 1) they can look away and 2) I enjoy seeing couples show affection, what I assume is an outward sign of a healthy relationship, which makes me happy to see. I need to remember that not everyone feels the same way though (but also that people can always look away). Again, though, I agree there's a difference between publicly recognizing a relationship and putting on a sensual/sexual show in public = public indeceny.

---

by: OtterXero @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 16:46:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

okay, i just fell off my chair laughing

when i watched the video.

lalalalala, and this is "Kaolin and James..."

Kaolin is an old friend of mine from high school.

Pretty, isn't he?  (he's the one sitting to OUR left on the bench)

:)

http://breakthterror.blogspot.com

---

by: breaktheterror @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 15:08:34 PM CDT

As an older woman and her adult daughter said....

they can move next to us, they make great eye candy.

---

by: NancyP @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 19:43:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

haha yep

and they're sweet guys, too.


http://breakthterror.blogspot.com

---

by: breaktheterror @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 19:59:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]