Obama, Clinton, and McCain camps punt on California marriage equality ruling

Reality Check

When the decision in Loving vs Virginia came down, it is estimated that over 60% or more of American voters disagreed with the Court.

Earlier today I checked with a Yahoo poll.  60% + agreed that the CA Court over stepped itself and legislated from the bench.  60% + thought marriage should have remained between 1 man and 1 woman until the people of CA voted to change it.

Get real!  If you were running for President and knew what the polls were saying about the American people's opinion, what would YOU have your spokesperson say?  I would be a good little liberal and be FOR civil unions ... just like Barack and Hillary.  AND I would silent on the California decision ... just to volitile and nothing in it for me as a Presidential candidate.  Yet.

The fight for full LGBT Equality is NOT over.  Be strong and be ready to really fight!  And read my blog in your spare time! http://ravenhurst-ravenhurst.b...

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by: Dagon @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 19:34:52 PM CDT

they could have said plenty that was meaningful and "safe"

If you were running for President and knew what the polls were saying about the American people's opinion, what would YOU have your spokesperson say?

It's ridiculous to hide behind "leave it to the states" when that is an intellectually bankrupt position. It's more worthy of respect to simply say that the matter will be decided at the Supreme Court level because of the matter of full faith and credit, and congratulate a state willing to move toward equality first, rather than wait for SCOTUS.

They could make a statement that these ballot initiatives in California and Florida, for instance, are allowing the majority to determine the civil rights of a subgroup of citizens -- and that is fundamentally wrong.

Those statements are honest and accentuates the reality of what needs to happen without nodding to The Homosexual Agenda, as both have publicly stated that they approve of civil equality in principle (save Clinton clinging to one part of her husband's DOMA).

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 19:55:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm cool with the responses

I'm cool with the responses.  We are getting closer and closer to marriage recognition.  And if you want to do more than complain, well, I can tell you how.  You see the very welcome California gay marriage decision means Iowa's going to need some love from you all as its sure to inflame the Republicans trying to take over the Iowa legislature where they are presently in the minority.  You see we've got our own gay marriage battle here in Iowa, which is now before our state Supreme Court which, as of this week, has a 4-3 progressive majority.  And the legislature is at risk because the dems this year held firm against a Constitutional amendment to make our gay citizens second class citizens, which followed their actions last year in extending civil rights protections to the GLBT community.  So please send some love if you can.  More info at the link.  http://actblue.com/page/iowane...

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by: Facts are Good @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 21:20:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

and we're facing an amendment here in NC

As I noted in my earlier post. As I said to Kate this evening, "I'm so happy about CA, but look at what we're facing yet again here at home; it's hard to feel overjoyed for long when there's always an uphill battle somewhere in the country."

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 21:23:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm with you.

I'm still so very happy for Californians but in 6 months we may have discrimination written into Florida and other states' constitutions. Kinda takes the wind out of the sails.

You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think.  

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by: Dianne @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:59:20 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Love to help, but...

Can you spare a link to the organizations doing the activities you're asking for donations on behalf of?

My budget is limited and may need to stay closer to home, depending on the AZ state house. That 's a fight for half a loaf that will probably be lost well before November, though.

If OTOH we're on the brink of another pro-equality finding from a state Supreme Court, and IA needs help to keep the Lege from reversing the advance, I'm in.

But wait, there's more!

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by: PhoenixRising @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 14:31:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ballot Initiatives

"They could make a statement that these ballot initiatives in California and Florida, for instance, are allowing the majority to determine the civil rights of a subgroup of citizens -- and that is fundamentally wrong."

I totally agree Pam!  An individuals rights should NOT be determined by majority rule.  To me, the ability to vote on another person's civil rights an anathema and it's contrary to everything a constitutional republic stands for; equal justice and protection under the law.

I would suggest that the next ballot initiative of California, Arizona, Florida, and all the rest of the states where these things are used should be to limit the scope of future ballot initiatives to taxes, etc.

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by: Jon Michaels @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 22:44:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes!

these ballot initiatives in California and Florida, for instance, are allowing the majority to determine the civil rights of a subgroup of citizens -- and that is fundamentally wrong.

This is the big message that I want to see pushed harder. Civil Rights are not up to public opinion. That is completely  in opposition to the Declaration of Independence. Imagine what this country would be like right now if Loving had been left up to a state-by-state public vote then. Truly embarrassing. Another Civil War in the making.

I also want to see these anti-gay folks being loudly called out as anti-American. They do not believe in equality. They do not believe in freedom of religion. Let them move to Russia if they don't like they way America works. They have no problem stealing our rhetoric, even if it doesn't make any sense. Why shouldn't they be held accountable for not living up to these sentiments?

____________________

Donate to Carmen's Place

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by: jackalope @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:07:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually it was a hell of a lot more than 60%

In 1958, pre-Loving, it was 94% according to Gallup. By 1968, the year after the ruling, opposition had only dropped to 72%. It remained above 50% in polls in 1972, 1978 and 1983 before finally being outpaced by approval 48% to 42% in 1991, some 24 years after marriage by interracial couples became everywhere in the U.S. Yet recent polls show same-sex marriage is approved of by about 40% of Americans. Marriage by same sex couples enjoys FAR greater approval now than interracial marriage did for about two decades after it became legal nationwide and right now only 1 state has same sex marriage with California on the way.

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by: craigkg @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:39:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank God for you Pam.

Would Obama be comfortable if Jim Crow laws were revived?

Would that be better off left for the states to work out?

I don't even want to talk about Clinton...it is her HUSBAND that stuck us with DOMA.  It hasn't even been 100 years since women had the right to vote.  Should states get to decide who gets to be a citizen??

Such despicable pandering...pretending that it is acceptable for any politician to uncritically support a states' right position is not respectable.  Thank you for not letting them get away with it.

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by: Patrick @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 19:40:49 PM CDT

Major difference between McCain and Obama-Clinton

Notice the big difference there?  McCain doesn't say that same-sex couples should have equal rights.

The court only brought out into the light what has long been obvious to everyone - that calling a same-sex relationship relationship by a different name while saying it is the same thing is totally silly.  It doesn't satisfy anyone!  It is either offensive to same-sex couples (as the court noted) or it is "marriage in all but name" and offensive to traditional marriage supporters.  So with any luck, Obama and Clinton won't be able to hide in that dark cave anymore, that position is now untenable.

Clinton and Obama now know about same-sex conception, or they better know, because they have people who read the blogs I comment at.  So they are now asserting that same-sex couples should have a right to conceive together, just like all marriages do.  McCain is now able to say that only a man and a woman should be allowed to conceive together, and conceiving together should continue to be a protected right of marriage.

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by: Locke @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 19:41:25 PM CDT

Leaving it to the states

Zheesh, that is indeed old.  Brings back memories from my history classes in high school when we learned about segregation.  There was also Nixon's Southern Strategy, which due to the same stupid people believing the same stupid things, still works.  I guess that being a "conservative" means not learning anything after getting out of the 6th grade and unquestioningly believing everything that agrees with what you want to believe in.  

My America includes LGBT families.

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by: Mena @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 19:49:28 PM CDT

I prefer McCain's statement

at least he's being an honest bigot.

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 20:14:46 PM CDT

Wouldn't go that far

McCain is more concerned with the right of majority to hate than with the right of the minority to equal treatment.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 20:42:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

i know, but

he's not playing "states rights" games.  i find his straightforward bigotry almost refreshing.  this canned campaign press release stuff is an insult.  you know, it was a ruling of this very court in 1947 (or was it '49?) which started the great unraveling of the anti-miscagenation laws that ultimately ended in loving v. virginia.  this court was in a sense the first step in making his won parents' marriage legal in all states.  he could have really had some profound things to say, but he slimed out.  of course so did clinton.  so, for today, i'll prefer an honest message of hate from mccain to a fake message of kinda-equality from obama.

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 20:51:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A European LGBT Activist friend

remarked that "McCain is the only one that doesn't have haemorrhoids from sitting on the fence"

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Sun May 18, 2008 at 15:31:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Disappointed in Obama and Clinton...

...but not at all surprised.

That said, I'd like for someone to ask McCain if he disagrees with the Governator's decision to veto the SSM bill that was passed in the State Legislature twice, on the grounds that "the courts should decide". I want to watch him squirm as he tries to decide whether to cozy up to the fundies or to avoid pissing off about the only Republican left who's not toxic.

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by: Darkrose @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 20:23:48 PM CDT

I can't believe Arnold had a stronger statement than Obama & Clinton

His statement today:

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is vowing to uphold the California Supreme Court's ruling striking down a state ban on gay marriage.

The Republican governor issued a brief statement shortly after the court announced its decision Thursday.

The governor said, "I respect the court's decision and as governor, I will uphold its ruling."

He also reiterated his previously stated opposition to an anti-gay marriage initiative proposed for the November ballot. That initiative would write a ban on same-sex unions into California's constitution.

http://cbs5.com/local/schwarze...

And back in April he was saying this:
"I will always be there to fight against that," the governor said in San Diego at the annual convention of the Log Cabin Republicans, the nation's largest gay Republican group, as the attendees erupted in loud applause.

The Austrian-born governor drew laughs from the crowd when he added:

"I think we need a constitutional amendment so that a foreign-born (person) can run for president, but not against gay marriage. That would be a total waste of time."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...

This is why I say I will help to get Obama elected, but my money will go elsewhere like to Equality CA.

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by: Juan @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 20:47:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

like he has a choice

"The governor said, "I respect the court's decision and as governor, I will uphold its ruling."

it's now the law of the state of CA, Arnold HAS TO abide by the ruling.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 22:23:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ask Mitt

From the moment the MA decision was announced, he was openly working to overturn it.

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by: Darkrose @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:49:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

one can obey the decision AND work to overturn it.

that is what willard romney did.  he recognized that it was the law of the land, and properly directed state agencies to act accordingly.  but that didn't stop him from playing an active roll in trying to get an anti-equality amendment passed.  the two things are not mutually exclusive.  

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:20:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

..wonder if he will show up.

At friends weddings this summer?  He must know many in the entertainment business and other areas who are planning weddings, and some won't mind being a political tool to help 'the cause.'

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:06:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Erg....

the legal argument with marriage is that it IS left to the states. In fact if anyone has actually read the opinion of the state supreme court, you will find that they make their decision under the California state constitution and state statutes.

Marriage has always been among the "domestic exception" to federal court dealings (also includes child custody and divorce). You will almost never make it into any federal courtroom with these kind of arguments...marriage is a state matter and state law controls. I know that's the legalistic argument no one wants to hear, but every single advance in this arena, which has taken place in the courts, has taken place under an individual state's constitution (which is always capable of giving MORE liberty and rights than the federal constitution) and state's statutes NOT the federal constitution and federal statutes.

So before we start hurling names at people who know the legal argument, we can certainly begrudge them for not explaining themselves properly, but we should know that taking a poll is not how the legal system works...you can think differently, but it doesn't work well in the real-life courtroom.

Let's congratulate these legal teams who have made these advances.

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by: captsfufp @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 20:26:24 PM CDT

Whoops!

That's fine, I'll just send my political donations and energy to PFLAG, or some other activism effort that offers a better return on my investment than flushing it down the toilet.

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by: CBrachyrhynchos @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 20:29:52 PM CDT

May I suggest...

...Equality for All?

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 20:43:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

...YES!

EQALITY FOR ALL worked their little tails off trying to stop the petition drive here in California.... and almost did... and maybe have... as now they are saying it will be the end of June before the whatever board 'decides' if there are enough signatures.

I hope in all the hoopla of all the glorious weddings going on ... not one of which will harm one het marriage ... they will simply announce, nope sorry not enough signatures.

But then a plebiscite landslide victory would be even better.

Please donate whatever you can to EQUALITY FOR ALL.

Geoff Kors of Equality California has said that over and over, because EFA is ORGANIZED and ready to go. 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:03:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

if you are holding your breath for a candidate for president

if you are holding your breath for a candidate for president to say ALL the right things. in All the right ways the LGBT community wants to hear...you'll die of efixiation, and your candidate wouldn't win.

REALITY CHECK

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 20:54:46 PM CDT

Agreed

But I'd go even further.  If you are waiting for any Democratic candidate at the national lever to take a foursquare stand for gay equality, I hope you have a lot of knitting to keep you busy while you wait (and a copy of War and Peace would be a good idea too).  The differences between the parties (and again, I'm talking about the national level here, not the local level) are rhetorical rather than substantial.  If that's not true, how do you account for the fact that the Democrats have let Bush do everything he's wanted to?

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:31:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Blanket statement not true

My local Congressman, Brad Sherman, is for marriage equality.
Both my state reps past and future voted for marriage equality in the state legislature.
One can get complacent with elected officials like I have.

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:57:49 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

committed

Hillary Clinton believes that gay and lesbian couples in committed relationships

I'm really tired of the "committed relationships" caveat in all of these discussions of gay marriage. I understand that some straight people have to be convinced that not every gay and lesbian person is looking for a hot no strings attached evening and that gay people can have serious relationships. At the same time, the "committed relationships" term needs to go if we're really going to talk about equality. Do straight people getting married at city hall or Las Vegas have to talk about how they're in a committed relationship? Did Britney have to show this? Do the characters show it in the "What Happens in Vegas" movie?

I know I'm expecting too much from the candidates, but that term still annoys me.  

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by: NeilinCA @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 20:58:11 PM CDT

we are barely near the end of the DARK AGES of Cheney

Have you all forgotten how bad it can get?

JESUS cut Obama and Clinton some slack,

not being spied upon on phones and online, not being labled unpatriotic, or picked up in the night and sent to a Black prison to be tortured with NO Habeas Corpus...vs. not saying they are CHAMPIONS of all things queer.

grow up.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 21:00:21 PM CDT

if you don't push,

they will never give you what you want.  it's that simple.  it is good that people are keeping the pressure on.  

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 21:33:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Knowing where and when to push is key

Going off half cocked isn't a winning strategy. Sometimes you bide your time, sometimes you make your best choice, and only hope things work out better than you imagine. Sometimes it's a lucky break from the right court, with the right mix of judges, who make a world-changing decision, and THEN you pounce to make the most of it. Queer couples who want to marry, that are from States outside CA, (without a State constitutional amendment banning same sex marriages)RUN to CA and tie the knot NOW!
Then sue your home State for not recognising your legal marriage. That's how we win marriage Rights in EVERY State.
just as inter-racial marriages became universally recognised, gay/lesbian marriages will follow the same path. Brace yourselves Supreme Court, we're coming in massive numbers from dozens of States.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 22:06:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's not just about the presidency...

I hate how every four years the presidential election cycle takes over everything.

Why should we give our time, energy, and limited cash to reluctant supporters of the comfortable and safe positions, when we have dozens of grass-roots organizations fighting in congress, the courts, the statehouse, city hall, and the school boards? I'm not saying that we should do something stupid like stay home in November.  

I'm saying spend queer energy and money on queer politics.

I'm saying let's keep a comfortable distance from Democratic candidates so that we are not in a conflict of interest between supporting the candidate, and criticizing them when they fold.

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by: CBrachyrhynchos @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:14:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

or to say it again...

The fact that elected democrats might be forced to compromise by the nature of our government, doesn't mean that I have to.  

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by: CBrachyrhynchos @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:37:56 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

...lets see INTERACIAL marriages.

Would include Obama's parents right??  We know he needs to get some of the whacko Xtian vote, but..... he better be ready to happily attend lots of gay weddings on Jan 22.

I still think pages and webpages and lots of videos of celebrity weddings this summer and fall with actually turn some of them, get them thinking in the right direction, after all their votes are SECRET right. 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:58:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Have you forgotten

that the Patriot Act was originally Democratic legislation?  It was drafted by the Clinton White House.  But the Republican Congress refused to pass it because they didn't want to give Bill that kind of power.  Once they had W in office, they passed it eagerly, using 9/11 as a pretext.  But ultimately, we have the Democrats to thank for it.  (And can you really imagine Hillary's White House voluntarily ceding back all the power it gives her?)

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:46:15 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Today's Evasion of the Issue Won't Play for Five Months

An intense firestorm is about to engulf California as the religious reicht pours gazillions into the contest to overturn this decision and to write their bile into our constitution via the ballot initiative.  Both candidates will be forced to confront the issue squarely.  There will be no room on the fence.

We already know that the Clintons are totally chicken-shit when it comes to Gay and Lesbian issues.  I have higher hopes for Senator Obama.  I'm not worried about what he says or doesn't say today.  He's going to have five months to explain himself.  Will he throw us under the bus also?  Experience tells me yes, my hope tell me no.

Meanwhile, come celebrate this great victory with us in San Francisco this June at the Gay Freedom Day.  We have much to celebrate.


Houston Bridges

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by: Houston @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 21:25:33 PM CDT

LOVE SF

If I don't get there for Pride, you'll just have to celebrate a little harder for me by proxy....Have a helluva party!

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small

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by: peteyPornpig @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 22:17:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

sad

they could have atleast said this is a great day for equality, but i guess they would look hypocritical

http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com

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by: hippie4lyfe @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 22:07:01 PM CDT

Love One Another

Jesus said love one another and so I believe in gay marriage.

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by: edoneill89 @ Thu May 15, 2008 at 23:32:43 PM CDT

The Democratic Candidates dropped the ball...

  Along time ago when it comes to Marriage Equality but keeping their heads in the sand on LGBT issues.

 The ick factor drum beating from the right is easily dismissed with the truth that two people in love who are the same gender do more than think about sex 24/7.  

 with Clinton and Obama singing the tune of one man one woman marriage crap only feeds to the passing of these bigoted amendments in CA, AZ and FL.

 It doesn't take a rocket scientist to take 20 of the over 1,000 benefits straight couples have vs same gender couples to get away from the ick factor and point out the discrimination same gender couple have.

 How silly do the Peter and Bam Bam already look as they focus on the SEX, SEX, SEX.  

 The Special Rights crap would have been easy to blow out of the water as well.  We all have seen how the wackos go on and on about it with lies easily debunked.

 We saw how fast the act of actually saving the Sanctity of Marriage came to a screeching halt when an amendment was added in PA to strickly limit divorce.  I am sure we all would agree that divorce is the number one killer of marriages.

 The Democratic Candidates should have been debateing this issue from the beginning and the ick factor would be basically a dead issue.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 00:20:36 AM CDT

Nancy Pelosi got it right...

I welcome the California Supreme Court's historic decision. I have long fought against discrimination and believe that the State Constitution provides for equal treatment for all of California's citizens and families, which today's decision recognizes.

I commend the plaintiffs from San Francisco for their courage and commitment. I encourage California citizens to respect the Court's decision, and I continue to strongly oppose any ballot measure that would write discrimination into the State Constitution.

Today is a significant milestone for which all Californians can take pride.

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by: BusyTimmy @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:03:32 AM CDT

Civil Unions - Proposal for New Laws & Inititatives:

All legal unions, both past and future, where one or both partners are of African descent shall be declared Civil Unions but otherwise have the same rights and responsibilities as marriage.

Would Obama, Clinton or McCain support the right of states to pass such laws? If not, why not?  

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by: claudew @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:40:14 AM CDT

seconded....

Obama is a mulatto, and would have been a bastard in most other states than Hawaii in l961 right?  Talk about double standard!

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:53:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

tell the DNC,"thank you we'll do it ourselves"

With the courts moving our way, and the vulnerability any politician would face openly supporting Marriage Equality, LGBT organizations and individual couples need to shoulder this issue.
MLK and Harvey Milk didn't run to political parties to give their movements leadership, They already had those qualities themselves. Rosa Parks didn't phone her senator to discuss whether they would recommend not sitting in the back of a bus, and hold a press conference to discuss the matter. Viet Nam protestors didn't wait for Johnson approval to decide to hold moratoriums and general strikes on campuses.
By doing this ourselves we keep control of how we progress, it's our choices, and no one elses.
The phrase "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of our way" comes to mind concerning political candidates. We will do the leg work on this issue, just don't get in our way, and when the time is right for them, they will join us.

What have you done today, to make ya feel PROUD?


~Heather Small

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by: peteyPornpig @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 12:19:26 PM CDT

baboons in drag

Obama - "... and he will continue to fight for civil unions... and continues to believe that states should make their own decisions when it comes to the issue of marriage." In other words, he's a pigheaded opponent of same sex marriage and a supporter of states rights in the tradition of George Wallace and for the same reasons. Obama publicly panders to the cults.

Clinton - "... Hillary Clinton believes that ... that civil unions are the best way to achieve this goal." She has said and continues to believe that the issue of marriage should be left to the states." Another pigheaded opponent of same sex marriage and supporter of George Wallace style states rights. Clinton publically panders to the cults,

McCain - "John McCain... recognize marriage as a unique institution sanctioning the union between a man and a woman..." Another pigheaded opponent of same sex marriage who panders to the cults.

Their positions are virtually identical and are in conflict with our fundamental liberties and civil rights. All three candidates oppose same sex marriage to compete for the support of the abrahamic cults: jesus inc., the yahweh corporation, mormon enterprises and allah ltd.

A vote for any of the three isn't just a wasted vote - it's a vote FOR bigotry, war, and the continued assault on our standard of living.


The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  

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by: donal1944 @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 13:03:34 PM CDT