Hillary invokes RFK assassination

Tone deaf at best

Self absorbed and narcissistic at worst

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by: Zorya @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 15:27:01 PM CDT

I think she means

that Bobby Kennedy was still in the race in June, only being stopped by an assassin.

factually she is on point.  but she is terribly tone deaf.  she could have mentioned kennedy being in in june without mentioning the assassination.  

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 15:39:33 PM CDT

Factually on point?

No. People campaigned in June because CA had its primary in June. Also primaries started in the middle of March, not in January; they did not last 6 months like this year.

She is also wrong about '92 - Clinton was the clear front runner by March and his campaign was calling for Brown to quit because "of the math."

So not only tone deaf but fallacious.

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by: Chester @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 20:44:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks for clarifying

I remembered it as a late primary.

And checking around on the Internets, everyone seems to say Clinton had it locked up in March or April at the latest. While not as egregious as the sniper fire lie, you'd think she'd remember her husband's campaign better.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:39:36 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No need to mention the assasination

She isn't just tone deaf, she's jumped the shark.

It would have been perfectly fine to mention RFK still running in June, though it's a poor comparison because the primaries have been shuffled in order since then.

I think her mentioning the assassination is a Bushism: her Freudian slip is showing.  She really hates Obama, or at least what Obama has done to her prospects.  She wants him gone.

Her unconscious was speaking loud and clear.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 15:44:00 PM CDT

Among her apologies

should be one directly to the Kennedy family.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 18:24:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The one big puzzle for me

in this campaign is why the party leaders haven't done something to force this horrible creature out of the race.  She has pandered to racists (and done so overtly, not just "in code," as weaselly politicians usually do).  She has been caught in one outrageous lie after another.  She has made veiled and not-so veiled threats against the party.  And now this outrage.

I know the Clintons have a lot of friends and a lot of influence.  But she can't possibly be so powerful as to have frozen the entire party in fear.  When will Reid, Pelosi and the rest come to their senses and force her out?

Imagine what the country is in for if this abominable person actually does make it to the White House.  Do we really want to see a president who panders to bigots and licks her chops with relish at the thought of a rival being assassinated?  If McCain represents four more years of Bush, Hillary represents four more years of Karl Rove--to the Nth power.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 15:59:54 PM CDT

i'll give you the reason.

because the person you think of as "horrible creature" is the choice of nearly 50% of democratic voters.  party leaders would be fools to anger them by appearing to thwart her.  obama realizes this very well, as is obvious in the way he carefully does not ask her to bow out.  he gets it, but many of his supporters don't.

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 17:14:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I get it

And I don't think of her as horrible.  I think some of her remarks have been, and I decry her letting Bill run amok-ish.

I honor her commitment and service and brains and that's why I want her to become either Majority Leader and a Grand Old Woman of the Senate (we need one), or Chief Justice.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:41:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

A Supreme Court Justice

with this kind of judgement would not be an asset to the country.  IMO, with this gaffe, she's proven that she's either ignorant or cynical.  Neither are qualities I want in a justice.   Maybe she just gets diarrhea of the mouth during campaigns.    In any case, I think her constituents benefit from the option to vote her out if need be.  

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by: Troy @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:45:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I disagree

I think the heat of the battle has undone her, has made her lose her cool. This was supposed to be a march to victory, steady, assured, magnificent. Like one of those "triumphs" the Romans had for their heroes. Sitting on the bench and hearing cases is a much calmer, more thoughtful process, out of the glare of publicity and battle.

Please note: I am being sympathetic to HC.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:49:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Would it be possible for the Obamanistas

to take a breath and stop seeing some insidious plot or subterfuge or nefarious scheme and ulterior motive to everything Hillary says or does?

It's the reason I don't read Aravosis anymore. Too shrill, paranoid, and cutting up one of our own worse than the rethuglicans. Almost a Freeper level of hysteria.

Let's just tone it down, 'K?

Your Christ (Obama) is gonna get the nomination.
Hillary is not the anti-Christ. Relax and let this play out.

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by: SharonB @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 16:08:33 PM CDT

Oh, and before anyone goes there as a case in point...

...no nefarious subliminal meaning to the Christ metaphor.
Ya with me?

I will vote for whoever gets the nom.

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by: SharonB @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 16:28:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Tone it down? You could start.

I am sick of hearing Clinton supporters claim that we think Obama is a messiah or Jesus.  That's your utter contempt projected onto us. It's insulting to people who are just as impassioned as you Clinton people are.  All one has to do is express the slightest enthusiasm for Obama and one's labeled--in effect--a fanatic.

I blame Clinton herself, and Bill.  From his Fairy tale comments to her her jejeune mockery at a campaign event that drew embarrassed laughter, they have proven contemptuous of Obama's groundswell of support.

You'd like us to relax?  You might set us a good example, then, and stop the nasty rhetoric.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 16:59:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Insidious

Your Christ? What an insidious remark. A response such as this is usually elicited from poor and ungracious losers in a meet, of which Hillary has fallen prey to of late. "Cutting up one of our own" is not so bad since you've taken it to the opposite extreme and has proven youself to a repugnican tone. 

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:21:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I second that emotion

My neighbor down the street, a New Yorker in her mid-80s, and I have had great political discussions.  She and I both leaned towards Edwards and were sorry that he dropped out, but our move to Obama was based on comparison/contrast with Clinton, enthusiasm for his speeches and style, respect for his record (which we bothered to read about).  Neither of us is overly excitable or a cultist or a teenybopper in terms of our likes or dislikes.  We made a rational choice, but we're also happy to feel good about a candidate.  Why are we continually degraded as "Obamamaniacs," deemed to view Obama as a messiah?  That couldn't be more insulting.

Yes, I admit there are insults lobbed from both camps, but the drumbeat of degrading insult and assumption that to support Obama is to have somehow lost one's senses has been a real shock and disappointment to me.  My spouse is one of the calmest, least easily ruffled, least hyper people I know, and he's followed a similar path as I have about Edwards, Clinton and Obama. He disliked her Iraq vote, and he's grown increasingly disenchanted with what she's said during the campaign and what Bill has said, too. And as someone who revered JFK, RFK and MLK (and a war buff who's read a lot about FDR), he's grateful to have a leader with their potential or inspiring change and movement in this country. We're not maniacs, we're not fanatics, we're not cultists in some corybantic political display.  We're sensible Democrats who made an informed choice.  

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:00:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes to everything you said Lev

But I'll also admit for the record that I made lots of snotty comments referring to the Obama campaign as the "Children's Crusade" back when Edwards was still in the race.  :-)

The negative emotion coming from my end--and I'm probably not alone--comes from real disappointment with Senator Clinton.  Her alliances with the DLC, with Scaife, with Fox News, her vote for the war, her sponsorship of a constitutional amendment to ban flag-burning, her exploitation of racial resentment, all of that stuff and the rest feels like a betrayal specifically because I want to think better of her.

...

Whoa, nice one...

cor-y-ban-tic, adj.

Of, pertaining to, or resembling, the Corybantes (the priests of the Phrygian goddess Cybele) or their rites; frantic; frenzied; as, a corybantic dance.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:21:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

One of our own?!?

I would respectfully suggest that you speak for yourself.  No candidate who has invoked racism as baldly and as consistently as Hillary has; who has been caught in as many flat-out lies; who seems to advocate starting a nuclear war with Iran; who voted for the Iraq war and has continued to support and defend funding it; and now who says she's in the race because she's waiting for her opponent to get shot--no such candidate is one of mine.  If you wish to claim such a cynical opportunist as one of yours, more power to you.  But leave me out of it.

And for the record, while I prefer Obama to Clinton, my support for him is tepid at best.  I think the LGBT community would be terribly naive to believe he'll listen to us over his pals, Donnie McClurkin, Kirbyjohn Whatsisname and the rest.  I also find him somewhat naive, and I have serious doubts he has the political chops to effect the kind of change he keeps promising.

It might be convenient for you to think of Hillary's critics as knee-jerk "Obamanistas."  The truth is far more complex than that.  

But I apologize if my remarks offended anyone.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:56:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Is anyone really surprised?

This is a logical development in the increasingly desperate campaign of someone who has demonstrated that she will do whatever it takes to win.

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by: johnbinpt @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 16:33:12 PM CDT

Not the first time she has said it either

So don't give me the "tired" excuse or misspoke (again)...

From a March 6th interview with Time:

http://www.time-blog.com/swamp...

She is pathological at this point in time...

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by: bkmn @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 16:33:52 PM CDT

It's her only hope

She's been blowing this dog whistle for a while now. Her only hope is that some nut with a gun goes after him.

She is beyond contemptible. What an a**hole.

Samantha Powers was right, Hillary is a MONSTER.  

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by: vanitysmurf @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 16:43:47 PM CDT

Absolutely appalling

Sadly enough, I cannot believe that Clinton did not understand the implications, whether paramount in her mind or not, of mentioning RFK. It is another sign of her continuing slide into self-imposed political obsolescence. I have said it before and this is just another sign that her increasingly-unlikely quest for the nomination has led her to become exactly the stereotype she's been labeled with - the nasty, shrewish politico who will stop at nothing. I don't see how that is going to attract the superdelegates to her, and she now needs an astronomical 83% of all remaining delegates to win.

I have to think her actions are costing her political support within the party, whether that is stated or not, and she risks losing the position of power in the Senate she was once seemingly guaranteed.  

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by: CPT_Doom @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 16:50:01 PM CDT

One psychologist's opinion

My spouse, a psychologist, saw the RFK comment as I did an expression of her unconscious hostility, but also added that she may be afraid of his being assadsinated, so his interpretation is more charitable than mine.

Y'all have a great holiday weekend.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 17:05:04 PM CDT

I've heard a lot ...

... of people express the fear that he will be assassinated. I think it's a pretty common fear out there right now.  

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by: rx7ward @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 17:58:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I have heard some of the same...

  type of comments.  And I am sure there are some white supremisist groups that have talked about it from jokingly to honestly planning it.  There are nut cases through out the whole USA.  They are the same nut cases that beat up LGBT people for being LGBT.  Not voting for Obama because you might think he might be shot is just the same as telling an LGBT person to stay in the closet IMO.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 21:48:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The character issue

While I give Clinton credit for quickly apologizing, this extraordinarily tactless slip, and her interest in re-writing rules she herself had previously agreed to, both apparently motivated by a rather sick mania in not accepting defeat, are incredibly disappointing.  Leadership should involve honor, integrity, ethics, and humility.  This is more ruthless-dictator-type behavior.  Seriously.  You would expect thuggish leaders of unstable, junta-controlled countries to pull tricks like to this to keep or acquire power at any cost, not a serious, mainstream American Presidential candidate.

I didn't used to have any strong disrespect for Ms. Clinton.  I leaned toward voting for her for a long time.  But there's a difference between being assertive and refusing to roll over and playing dead, and being narcissistic, shamelessly and manipulatively asking to cheat, and a plain old lying (send the First Lady into the Bosnia sniper fire).  In my opinion she cannot exit the contest soon enough.

And I had previously thought maybe she'd be a reasonable vice president.  I don't think that any more.  Her character is too poor.

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by: KC @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 17:09:34 PM CDT

It wan't really an apology..

It was the infamous, "I'm sorry IF someone was offended," and she specifically called out the Kennedy family for the fauxpology, but not the other 2 frontrunners, including the one whose assassination would benefit her IF ONLY SHE STAYS IN THE RACE.

I'm not a Clinton hater by any means. But we've seen what 8 years of a President who can't admit an error has done for us.  

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by: lyonside @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 23:59:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A technical comment.

Please do not embed things that autoplay.  It is the most annoying thing possible for a web page to do.  Embed it such that it loads without playing, or link it instead of embedding, please, for my sanity.

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by: John @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 17:14:54 PM CDT

AGREE!

Some people can read you on office breaks... there should be no unchosen sound!

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 18:46:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

it's swapped out

Put in the YouTube. It wasn't available at the time of the orig post.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 18:51:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yeah...

I voted for her, and I would still like her to be president, but even I have to admit she's screwing up worse and worse these days. I'm concerned this is how a tightly-controlled person goes to pieces under stress. Still buttoned up, but the cracks are getting bigger and bigger. I would like to see her exit the race gracefully and with dignity, to keep growing into a respected elder stateswoman, but these are unpromising signs showing. I think losing is really hard on her... she hasn't made peace with it yet. I hope and pray for her she finds peace within herself and can let it go, having given it her best, with no further embarrassments.

Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

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by: Hypatia @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 17:51:52 PM CDT

so anybody.

Still want her for VEEP?... So it can be 'preordained.' I don't think so.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 18:48:03 PM CDT

this is not in defense of clinton, but

rather to put into perspective the effort by pols to get political mileage out of the kennedy assassinations:  i lived in MA for 6 years, and heard teddy kennedy speak at many many many events.  i can't think of one where he didn't invoke his sainted dead brother.  i think this is rather pathetic, as teddy is a political giant in his own right and long ago ceased needing his brothers coattails.  but there it is.  so while i think clinton's earlier comment was stupid and ill timed due to obama being under threat and teddy being ill, there was a little gremlin whispering to me "ooh, teddy'll be sore because hillary just stole his best pander-to-patriotic-sentimentality line!"

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 19:39:47 PM CDT

But she wasn't pandering--

--so she didn't steal it.  And she wasn't trying to get any mileage out of his assassination by invoking it.

She didn't really apologize, either.  I watched the clip and she looked really embarrassed, kept looking down.  She goofed big time.


"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 19:53:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ugly, ugly, ugly,,,

   that you disparage Ted for speaking of his brother, at any time. Sure, some may get tired of it but when you lose someone close as a family member or a spouse, it's part of one's memorializing to mention their deeds, your respect and have that person live forever in your life in some small way. I have heard spouses and surviving brothers do the same thing. It's something you shouldn't ask someone to do, not to speak of your dead brother at certain places, unless they are psychologically consumed of obsessed with it. Many mention other statemen or presidents no different than Teddy. You should rightly divide his comments before spewing your tainted view point.  

   That's whats unspeakable, your insensitivity. His references to his brother, either or, could and probably were references to their ideals, accomplishments and dreams for this country, and unfortunately, we did lose a lot for this country with the death of two great persons of the Kenndy family. I often, very often think of what might or could have been for this country had things been different. (Read about Bobby Kennedy and his trip to Mississippi for a more insightful retrospect).  Personally, I do believe, that Nov. 22, 1963 and June 5, 1968 were the death of a nation and a democracy. This nation has been in a tail spin ever since, attempting to regain their former glimmer after the last great war, but has always paled. Robert Kennedy broke with President Johnson over the Vietnam war and had he made it to the white house, history might have proved a greater light to the world for democracy and for civil rights, which has continually eroded with federalism and the repugnician agenda.

   Teddy has proven his own and he was the youngest brother. What's so unusual about following in your brothers footsteps? I high admire my older brother and I'm not afraid or ashamed to say so, as I am sure Teddy felt the same way. Nothing wrong with that.

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:59:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

yep, i'm just an ugly, ugly ugly monster

who has the nerve to see politicians for who and what they usually are.  sorry to burst your bubble.

there is a republican running for US senator in MA who has been running on the coattails of his brother, who was one of the airline pilots killed on 9-11.  he's using crashing twin tower images and his brother's that tragedy for all the personal political gain he can wring from it.  maybe you should give him a look.  he might be to your liking.  or is it only ok to run on tragic coattails when your a democrat?  his name is ogonowski.  check him out.  seriously.

Lurleen on Twitter

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by: Lurleen @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:46:04 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think that horrible...

   I would not do it but the Kennedys were in place long before the grew up, maybe you should critisize Joeseph instead of Ted. He lost two brothers I think didn't he? Double the pain! Double the grief!

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 14:22:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Same comments, different tone

One could make the same comments without accusing some of being ugly and unspeakably insensitive.  One could say; I see it differently, as --

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:05:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you Lev...

   I grew up on rough living and rough talk and sometimes it just comes out. Sorry, can I say cruel, cruel, cruel?

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 14:17:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Pam,

I just saw the TIME quote on Daily Kos and popped over here, and there it was, so thanks for staying on top of this weird story!

Not only did she say the same tactless thing twice, she also used almost identical wording to describe her husband's win in each case. Maybe that's fatigue, maybe that's something she's practiced saying, or has been saying to herself. And maybe it just slipped out each time.

Maybe.


"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 20:41:10 PM CDT

She thinks there still ONE way she can win the nomination.

Some say it's a long shot and others are very much gathering their courage to march forward against their silent fears of the worst.

Just as Hillary Clinton HOPED that whites would refuse to vote for Obama based on his skin color, now she HOPES that someone will assassinate Obama so that she can claim the nomination.

In my mind, she's calling for and endeavoring to incite the assassination of her political opponent, just as she has tried to incite color-aroused voting patterns that she hoped would enhance her electoral chances.

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by: francislholland @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 21:58:59 PM CDT

This country's politics...

   is not below such a thing.

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:01:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Keith Olbermann commentary

is up on www.americablog.com.  It's something else.

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by: KC @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 22:20:38 PM CDT

Wow!

I agree with what he said, but thought he went way overboard with his outrage.

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by: Naperville Mom @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 00:15:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

He bothers me sometimes

When you read what he says as opposed to listen to it, there's a world of difference.  His strong rhetoric becomes sometimes overbearing, excessive.  Somebody who love shim should tell him that righteous indignation doesn't have to be shouted, bellowed or shot out of the mouth of a rhetorical cannon.  he's so on-target, it's a shame to see him undercut his own efficacy as an analyst.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:44:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree...

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:03:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The last thing in the world

Obama wants is Hillary as his running mate.  He will not let himself be pressured or bullied into it.  There are plenty of other potential V.P.s to consider that can help deliver the "stupid white people" vote that he's been unable to attract thus far, without the abundant baggage that comes with Hillary.

All she's doing now with all these blunders is giving Obama plenty of reasons to cite when questioned as to why he didn't choose her as his running mate.

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by: Naperville Mom @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 23:55:07 PM CDT

Double taboo

Clinton broke not just one, but two taboos in evoking the possibility of Obama's being a target:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

Not her finest hour.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 15:22:26 PM CDT