Clinton Camp Stokes RFK Flap by Blaming Obama

No

I don't think Hillary hopes and dreams for Obama to be shot.

But she wants to be well-positioned, just in case.  The (alleged) hard-ball demands for the VP spot seem kind of macabre in retrospect, don't they?

What I think the incident reveals is the way she and Bill and maybe other close advisers have been talking and thinking in private.  "Anything could happen.  We should be ready."  It's an unintentional reveal.  It's second nature for her to think in such a way, and it didn't even occur to her how it would sound if she came too close to saying it out loud in public.

But who knows?  Mainly, I feel sorry for her at this point.  It's an ugly and sad end to a campaign which absolutely was a historic achievement.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 00:33:27 AM CDT

Re: No

She doesn't even need to remain in the campaign if this is her theory.  If Hillary had conceded last week, and Barack had been assassinated at some point between now and the Democratic convention, does anyone have any doubt who would have been picked as the nominee?  Anyone??

If her prime hope was for him to be assassinated, she should have been making nice with his camp and preparing to swoop in at the proper moment.

If she wanted to compare herself to RFK, she would have been better off just saying that he was still campaigning, despite trailing, in June.  I suspect that she added that he was assasinated to emphasize that the only reason he stopped when he did was because he was given no choice, but she was foolish not to realize how those that like to demonize her would eagerly spin her words.

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by: Beth @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 00:49:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Alternative POV

You know, the thing is, y'all are all assuming that Hillary sees Barack in the role as RFK.  But the fact is that RFK was trailing while still campaigning in June, and I'm pretty certain that Hillary sees herself in that role. Her point, inaptly made, was that it's not unprecedented to see major candidates still fighting for the nomination this close to the general election.

Since RFK, Jr. wasn't offended by her comments, and she's offered a clarification (and her actual intent was pretty obvious in the first place), why is this still an issue?  Other than to score political points, that is.

Also, I'm getting really tired of supposed political allies threatening me with coat hangers and back allies unless I compliantly vote a straight party ticket.  I've no present intention of voting for McCain, but the Democratic party shouldn't count on blind devotion from women just because McCain's Supreme Court nominees might be less to our liking.

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by: Beth @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 00:42:23 AM CDT

Tomorrow the HRC will blame Obama for killing RFK

And demand an apology. Just wait. The descent into madness is getting there but not complete.  

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by: Mr. Larry @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:02:57 AM CDT

Sen. Clinton has already apologized.

I agree with those who don't believe she meant anything nefarious by the remark, but I find it one of the clumsiest political comments I've heard in a long time.

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by: oddjob @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:06:11 AM CDT

Not only that

but she managed to make herself the victim of a misunderstanding.

"Why sniff! are you all picking on me???"

GAH. Make it end, make it end, make it end!!

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by: Louise @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:44:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh...

so THAT's how you do the "--" thing. Huh- live and learn...

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by: Louise @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:45:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Much Ado About Nothing

I for one had no problem with her comment.  Being a former history major I knew exactly what she was saying.  I do agree the whole comparison w/Bills '92 campaign was a real stretch though as he already had things wrapped up in April.  Anyway, I think this is another perfect example of Obama supportes blowing up any little thing she or Bill say.  It's really lame in my opinion.

Here's how I think things will go down: She will stay in 'til the end.  Then sometime in the next month after that she will endorse Barak in exchange for her debt being paid off AND Obama will pick Kathleen Sebelius as his VP.  That way he gets rid of Hillary (she will be happy with the debt being paid off) and the Sebelius nomination will placate much of Hillary's female base, preventing a mass exodus to McCain.

my 2 cents

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by: xrk9854 @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:27:43 AM CDT

Cosmic Karma

Clinton fanned the flames of Obama's gaffes in the past.  This is a case where the media will distort a statement as a detriment to Clinton for once.  How does she like those apples?

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by: oregonstudent @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 07:02:45 AM CDT

It is interesting

If anyone else saw the coverage of this issue on Meet the Press this past Sunday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30...

Timmy was really trying to turn this into a HUGE, larger than it is, event.

He actually ignored what was being said by the Hillary supporters (including Robert F. Kennedy Jr.) and tried his best to make it sound like Hillary was calling for the assassination of Obama and that she should apologize more than she did. And its funny because I can't find that clip on their web site. Why not?

It made me sick. Why is this an issue? She explained the comment, the explanations make sense. But yet the media lacking the ability to report any actual news is trying to create a story out of this.    

I especially liked how he spun any support into just the words of a Hillary supporter....but gave more weight to Dowd.

nothing new at this time.....

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by: Mattkazoo @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:28:06 AM CDT

Don't Believe Every Comment You Read

I suspect there are quite a few McSamers out there who are posting as irrational Clinton supporters in an effort to break down party unity.  

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by: Troy @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 10:11:53 AM CDT

I'm BEYOND sick of this crap

Then the ironic task of explaining to my young nieces, "President McCain was elected because older women who had fought tooth and nail for abortion rights when they were your age decided that Barack Obama stole the nomination from the would-be first woman president and voted for McCain in protest.

First, this notion that Obama "stole" the nomination: for every Clinton supporter I've heard say that, I've heard a dozen Obama supporters snarking about her sense of "entitlement."

Second, I'll tell you exactly how you'll get President McCain in the fall:  Keep on insulting and alienating Clinton supporters.

Whether anyone here likes hearing this or not, the biggest pool of additional votes for Obama in November is Clinton supporters and he's not going to win without us. Want to explain President McCain to your daughters? How about "a lot of us thought that looking down our noses at people, especially women, who'd voted for "Hillary" was one hell of a lot more important than getting our candidate into the White House."

If I should want to explain a President McCain to a kid, at this point I'd plan to say "there was another candidate who might have done a fair to great job; but his supporters were so damn obnoxious they made even George W. Bush look good."

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by: talkstocoyotes @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 11:39:15 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Awww, Hillary's supporters feelings are hurt!

Excuse me?  Looking down my nose?  Insulting and alienating?  Man, this whole "Hillary's hurt feelings" meme sure has grown!  Lemme just run down some of the insults and alienation:

"Obamatrons"
"Obamanation"
"Obamanoids"
"Christ complex"
"your Savior, Barack"
"deluded"
"brainwashed"
"cult of Obama"
"empty suit"
"I wouldn't have stayed in that church for 20 years"
"He says he's a Christian; I take him at his word"
"McCain and Clinton have years of experience; Obama has a speech from 2002"
"Jesse Jackson won South Carolina, how'd that work out for him"

And for those who claim the "assassination" comment is being blown way out of proportion:

"bitter"
"cling to guns and religion"

It is not alienating nor insulting to turn to the candidate who has run the losing campaign, the one with no mathematical chance of victory, the one who signs on to pledges that Florida and Michigan won't count, the one who said delegates were the measure of victory until she didn't have that edge, the one who continues to divert fundraising money and attention that should be focused on John W. McCain, and ask her to bow out, or at the very least, not tear down the presumptive nominee.

Look, in 2004 I supported Kucinich, then Dean, then Edwards.  I detested John Kerry.  I knew his nomination was doomed (when choosing between two Northeastern silver spoon Skull'n'Bones Yale graduate Washington insiders, people will pick the one who doesn't seem "elistist") yet I phone banked, argued, canvassed, marched, and donated to the Democratic nominee.

Kerryites had alienated and insulted me, too.  "Kucinich - doesn't have a chance!"  "Dean?  Yearrghh!  Too left-wing!"  "Edwards - trial lawyer!"  Not as severely has the Clinton camp has this time around, but still, I was looked upon as one of those starry-eyed far-left Dem-base youngsters who didn't have the political common sense of the mature, sensible Kerry supporters.

To even say that "the biggest pool of additional votes for Obama in November is Clinton supporters and he's not going to win without us" is yet another bit of temper tantrum yowling better suited to seven-year-olds.  The biggest pool of votes for Obama should be DEMOCRATIC votes; you write as if Hillary's the leader of a minority party in a parliamentary system, and we need to co-opt her for a coalition government.  And this after Obama (not his surrogates, though, I'll grant) has been more than gracious in not attacking Clinton in any of the divisive ways she's attacked him!  In fact, the balance of alienation and insult in this campaign is so far tilted to the Clinton side that I need only remind you of two words you haven't heard from the Obama side this cycle to prove my point:

"Monica Lewinsky"

Yet another reason why I see Hillary Clinton as the presumptive nominee of the Connecticut for Lieberman party.  Already I hear murmurings from the Clintonistas about how Obama's supporters have "hijacked" the party or how "out of the Democratic mainstream" we are in the "MoveOn anti-war activist base" of the party.  They've enshrined the Clintons as THE Democratic Party and allegiance to any other is heresy.

She started with name recognition, a huge bank account, an experienced team of Washington insiders, and a media so in the tank for her she was declared the "inevitable" nominee as early as Oct 2007.  She was the hare, so confident of victory she lollygagged, didn't take caucuses seriously, only set up shop in the "significant" states, and didn't plan past Feb 5th.  She got beat by the Obama tortoise, fair and square.

She lost.  Get over it and get to work for the Democratic party and defeating John W. McCain.  Your feelings are hurt?  Tough shit, it's politics, wear a helmet.  And if she can't/won't convince her 17 million followers to do that, she's a Lieberman and she will be guilty of inaugurating Bush's third term, a 7-2 conservative SCOTUS, and a war in Iran.  (Somewhere, though, Ralph Nader will breathe a sigh of relief.)

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

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by: RadicalRuss @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 13:04:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The Clinton camp

has threatened all-out "civil war" within the party if Hillary is denied her birthright, er, the nomination.  And they have done so quite openly and unashamedly.  I can't wait to hear the argument that that is not a threat to hand the election to McCain this fall.  (Note that the "Obamatrons" have made no such threat.)

But I suppose the fact that they're saying that is the fault of Obama supporters, too, right?  

It's too much to hope that the Clintonistas (so there!) will stop churning out this hogwash.  But trying to claim that the fact they're saying this stuff is the "fault" of anyone but themselves is pure baloney.  Or are we supposed to believe that they're all such weak-kneed, intellectually impoverished clods they are actually letting their opponents dictate what they say?

As I've noted here before, I am not an Obama supporter.  As a proud Green, I don't have a dog in this fight.  But I have been consistently appalled by the Clinton campaign's total lack of anything resembling honesty or integrity, not to mention the overt racism, etc.  They have run a campaign worthy of Karl Rove at his vilest.  The fact that the Democratic Party has permitted this swinishness to continue unabated is one more reason I'm happy not to be a member of it.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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by: QScribe @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 15:50:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bill? O.K.! Obama? NO.K.!

The NYT has an unintentionally hilarious article about how the Clinton campaign acted vis-à-vis the Brown campaign in 1992 much as the Obama campaign is acting towards the Clinton campaign now.  Of course, Bill Clinton is decrying the same moves in the Obama camp that his adherents used, successfully, in 1992 when it was mathematically impossible for Brown to win, just as it is now for Clinton (even though she's closer than Brown was).

Another example of The Clintonion Principle of Relatiivity

link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05...

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Tue May 27, 2008 at 08:13:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Um, can't we all just...you know...

As a tepid Obama supporter (after Edwards dropped out) with a partner who has enthusiastically donated to Clinton (we have the coffee mugs to prove it), I'm sick of the overblown rhetoric from both sides. First, HRC said something dumb. I seriously doubt she wants Obama assassinated, but she put her foot in her mouth. She should say, "I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said what I said. It was offensive. I was wrong to say it." End of story.

At the same time, a lot of the Obama folks have used this comment as further proof that HRC is in league with Satan or something. I don't like her nasty tactics (then again, his habit of starting every fourth sentence with "Look,..." annoys me as well), but not much really separates their positions. That's why we're all arguing over their personalities and phrasing, as if we were judging reality show contestants.

I hate to break it to you, folks, but he's not the messiah, and she's not the anti-Christ. I like him more, but both are better than McCain, and the people who would vote against one or the other after the convention are being pretty damn stupid.  

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by: guspup @ Tue May 27, 2008 at 08:17:58 AM CDT

He's not the messiah but...

   for what this country needs he just might prove to be nearer than anyone else in this race. Just how far do you want us to tear him down since your phrasing is an attempt to do just that?

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Tue May 27, 2008 at 22:28:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]