Obama resigns from Trinity Church

I agree with your last sentence.

I don't have a minister or spiritual leader.  I don't go to church.
I have values and morals.

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 18:10:36 PM CDT

Unfortunate, but necessary--and not just for him

I would hate to be an ordinary worshipper at Trinity right now, having to dodge cameras every Sunday, or worrying that the press were going to call my shut-in mother and harrass her. Hopefully this will allow the church to get back to doing what it does--and keep it out of the election, where it never should have been in the first place.

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by: Darkrose @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 18:30:13 PM CDT

uh...

it's Father Pfleger, Pam. He's a Catholic priest.

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by: vanitysmurf @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 18:57:24 PM CDT

Same paragraph

I think you (Pam) probably meant "object lesson" rather than "abject lesson."

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by: KC @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 19:05:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I had the same thought

but abject makes a good pun!

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 20:09:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Get ready

for a new round of "omg he's a secret Muslim and this proves it" hysteria.

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by: vanitysmurf @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 18:58:36 PM CDT

From Article VI of the US Constitution....

"...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."  

"I like your Christ, but do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." ~Gandhi

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by: keithan81 @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 19:21:51 PM CDT

Resignation

Here's the deal: We're not electing a chaplin. I've found the "focus on the pastors/priests, etc" weird as hell. It's NOBODY's business. See Article VI of the Constitution. Supposedly, there are NO religious tests for public office.

I'll be happy when we Americans stay focused on reality and not someone's mythic system.

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by: brat @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 19:31:42 PM CDT

Social rather than political activism, IMHO.

Hi! I read this blog every day because I think Pam has really smart takes on issues of race. I don't usually comment on blogs, but I wanted to give y'all my opinion on this one... I grew up a black, Catholic on the South Side of Chicago and I just wanted to clarify something about Father Pfleger and his, uh, performance at Trinity. First of all, I agree with you all about the mixing of Faith and State. It's totally detrimental. I think the Democrats have, unfortunately, gone off the deep end in emphasizing their faith in this election cycle. Thanks for that plan, Howard Dean!

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify that Father Mike, for all his faults, is a social activist rather than a political campaigner. He was speaking at Trinity as part of a program about addressing race. He was one of a panel of speakers, black and white, even though the media focused exclusively on the nutty white Catholic from the black neighborhood. First of all, Father Mike wasn't preaching the Sunday sermon -- he wasn't even at his own church. He mocked Hillary Clinton in a way that was really crass. AND he violated a rule that he preached to us a million times when we went on Youth Group outings with other (whiter) parishes, "Don't clown in front of the White Folks. Let's keep our dirty laundry at home, folks." (Father Mike thinks he's black, btw.) Anyway, he knew that he was under a microscope -- he even made a joke about the streaming video feed while he was cracking jokes about Hillary. Everyone would definitely have been better served if he had left Hillary Clinton out of commentary.

BUT, to be fair, Father Mike was using Hillary Clinton as a current example of what he believes happens when white people and black people vie for the same jobs -- white people feel entitled to the job and feel outraged and offended and swindled when a black person is chosen instead of them. This leads to conflict and resentment on both sides. You may disagree with his opinion on this matter. But it wasn't campaigning. It was the same kind of outspoken social activism that we got from Father Mike when he lobbied the Archdiocese to force this white parishes to agree to play against black parishes in sports leagues (this was in the 2000s, btw, not the 1950s). And the kind of outspoken social activism that we got from Father Pfleger when he lobbied parents to adopt some of the disproportionately high number of black kids that were tangled up in the foster cares system, even though he got into trouble with the Archdiocese when he adopted kids himself. I could go on and on... But I'm sure you don't want to hear it. ;-D  

I know this was a long comment! But I felt compelled to clarify things a little bit, here because you all have some really good, insightful conversations about race and I thought an important point was being lost in the inaccurate media hoopla that represented Father Pfleger's speech at Trinity as something it really wasn't.  

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by: Trilbe @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 21:05:26 PM CDT

Thanks

for clarifying.

Technology can either be used to capture moments and give depth to stories or to deciminate info into twistable, biased soundbites. To get your insights has helped me understand much more and I appreciate it greatly, having never heard of Father Mike before these recent events.

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by: Louise @ Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:56:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Clap your hands if you love double standards

When a Clinton supporter goes off the deep end, "the bigot knives come out" but when a nutty priest throws a shrieking tantrum about Hillary Clinton in Obama's church?  Here comes The March of the Excuses; hallelujahcanyasayamen?

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by: talkstocoyotes @ Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:37:36 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Fr. Pfleger unwise and uncouth in this case

He should have known better. Period. He might take shelter in the fact that the Catholic Church will never be disciplined for electioneering, but his diocesan bishop should kick his ass for stupidity - if only for not recognizing the political issue. There ARE other ways of getting the point across. Get this guy to have someone else review his sermons before they are delivered, and give pointers (this is not uncommon in the Protestant world). Ridiculing a specific someone before 6,000 people is Just Not On for a priest.

Yet more proof that no clergyperson is going to be excellent at all things needed in running a parish. He might be doing some good as a certain type of confrontational activist. Grade F for homilectics, though.

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by: NancyP @ Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 16:56:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The problem for me, Tribe, is that "Father Mike"

said exactly what was in his heart, so if you really buy the religious bs, then he's a sorry excuse for a Christian leader of a flock.  At any rate, he's exhibit A (or is it B?) for why Trinity's tax-exempt status should be revoked.

I'd be interested in your take on Pfleger's exhortation to the crowd at that anti-gun rally last year.  You know, where he said the owner should be dragged out "like a rat" and "snuffed"?

As you can tell, I think he's a dick. That doesn't exclude believing that he may have done good things as a community activist.

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by: Pollyanna @ Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 19:53:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

As a proud member of the United Church of Christ

I hope Obama will join one of the UCC's in Washington DC.  There's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  The UCC is an amazing, progressive Christian Church with a great record of promoting peace with justice and inclusion.  It's just a shame that lately the mission seems to have taken a back seat to some majorly big egos at Trinity.

I really hope he doesn't leave the UCC.

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by: Zeke @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 21:07:10 PM CDT

It's A Crime

I think it's a crime that the Obama Family was forced by the political season and the 30 second sound bite milieu of the main stream media to abandon their faith family.  A true tragedy.

I listened to Rev,. Jeremiah Wright's long speech at the National Press Club.  A thoughtful man of great faith who correctly takes pride in what the people of his church have accomplished in their community.  

How they have reached out o meet the needs of people with AIDS/HIV; people in poverty, people needing help getting an education; people in all sorts of need.  Rev Wright was fascinating in his lecture as he brought a deep understanding of history and theology and sociology together to explain the experience of Blacks in the USA over the last several centuries.  Fascinating.  

He taught me a great deal about the various strains of Black Americans from Africa and the Carribian and the Islands off South Carolina.  Fascinating.  I found him extremely well educated, a wonderful speaker, and a dynamic leader.

The church he described was a church I would be proud to attend and bring my child to.  A church that worshiped and learned.  But also a church that DID ... ministries to all sorts of people in need.  Plus a church that considered international justice issues ... apartheid for example, years before the USA was even interested.

But because of a few 30 second clips, the Obama's are forced to abandon this wonderful church and leave behind their faith family.  This is incredibly sad.  Incredibly sad.  Middle America may feel better, but I sure don't.  I feel sorry for Barach and Michelle and their children.  A meaningful part of their family life is gone ... sacrificed on the altar of Fox News.  Such a crying shame.

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by: Dagon @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 23:56:39 PM CDT

he opened the door to this possibility all by himself

by using religion as a political tool.  i have difficulty finding any sorrow in my heart for what has befallen.  overt religion should never be part of campaign schtick.  

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by: Lurleen @ Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 00:02:17 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Can you imagine

Reagan's faith being twisted by MSM as Obama's has? Utterly disgraceful.

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by: Louise @ Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:57:56 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Honey, this is an election

not a church picnic. Like it or not, a large percentage of Obama's potential voters aren't going to view these shrieking public tantrums in a very positive light. And like it or not, Obama was affiliated closely with this church and its leader; all politicians have some clunky baggage to deal with on their way up and he's no exception. If he regards it as such a tragedy, he should have stayed in Illinois.

And it doesn't matter if it was a "few 30 second clips" or a three-hour magnum opus; Wright's dog and pony show was political cyanide and Roman Catholic Follies following it up was just the antifreeze icing on the cake.

If this comes to a surprise to Obama, he certainly wasn't very well prepared this year. And in view of the fact that he's now the Democratic nominee, I hope he isn't as self-righteously naive as his supporters.

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by: talkstocoyotes @ Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 11:45:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

YAY!

I can only hope that with both Obama and McCain getting burned from their overt political use of religion, we will start to see less of the self-serving god talk from candidates.  nothing says "you're not one of us" to an atheist or non-christian than presidential candidates kissing the sandals of the christians.  can we please be done with this nonsense now?  please?

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by: Lurleen @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 23:58:50 PM CDT

time for a change

I know this is tangential but maybe it's about time we just revoke the tax-exempt status of religious organizations so they can spew whatever political rhetoric they desire.  

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by: ol cranky @ Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 06:30:00 AM CDT

of course they'll shriek to bloody hell if you try.

because not only will it cost them treasure, it'll remove the religious right's ability to hang themselves on the cross with the lying sign "silenced by the government" around their necks.  if they can't play victim to raise fears and money, they're toast and they know it.

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by: Lurleen @ Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 12:10:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]