Jim Neal backs Obama/Clinton ticket

AP

says same (as "breaking news"); MSNBC says no, she's not. Faux is reporting that Terry McAuliffe says nope. So who knows...

I agree; to throw Roe v. Wade under a bus to make a point is not good. And some will, even is she were slated to be veep, still do that.

To make a "POINT". Unbelieveable. Seems Roe is disposible in some women's eyes...  

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:25:15 AM CDT

No, no, no, NO!!!

Clinton has energized bitter, racist, white women, Rush Limbaugh fans, and Republican voters who want her to be the candidate so McCain can win.

Sorry Jim, this is stupid.

---

by: Kosh @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:44:43 AM CDT

Stupid

tell that to the 17 million folks who voted for her.

I want to  see a victory in November. An Obama Clinton ticket is, I believe, the best route. That's my belief-- and I've never pretended to be the smartest person on the block.  

Jim Neal in Chapel Hill

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by: JimNeal @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:23:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It may be

the only way at this point to end this complicated mess. And if this is what we end up with, I'll support it.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 13:47:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's giving into blackmail

Is what it is, Jim.  Put her into the #2 slot or we will vote for McCain?  F@@k that.  

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by: Paul In SF @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:07:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Odds are zero

The VP's job is supposed to be supporting the President's agenda. Can you honestly see Hillary Clinton playing second fiddle to someone she's been slamming as inexperienced for the past year? Not to mention that were I Obama, I wouldn't want Bill Clinton within a mile of the White House--nor would I want the woman who has repeatedly raised the specter of political assassination in a position to gain from someone taking me out.

(No, I'm not saying that Clinton wants Obama dead. But she's clearly thought about it more than once, which, AFAIC, makes her a poor choice for veep.)

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by: Darkrose @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:46:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Win in November

I think Obama's camp will probably be weighing if they could still win the election in November even if Hillary wasn't on the ticket.  For example, offering the VP spot to Sherrod Brown to pick up Ohio or Jim Webb to pick up Virginia and the possible appeal of both to the "rural Appalachian" voters that went so strongly for Clinton in the primary.

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by: Jon Michaels @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:47:38 AM CDT

I respectfully disagree with Jim

Clinton has run a negative, divisive, dishonest campaign and should not be one of our standard bearers in 2008. Long after it became clear that Obama would be the nominee her approach remains "you can have the nomination when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers."  No thanks.

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by: johnbinpt @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:16:29 PM CDT

...or worse.

I get to pry it from his  **** **** *******, so I have to keep my campaign staff going strong.

I don't really believe this. I just think she simply doesn't know how to lose gracefully, she certainly doesn't do anything else gracefully either. 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:30:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

errors

I really enjoy reading this site, but could you please proofread your posts?  I recognize typographical errors in almost every post.  It destroys your credibility.  

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by: Damien @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:24:35 PM CDT

thanks

I'm juggling a million things to get a post up during lunch or late at night and this is what I have to deal with, lol. If I only had a dime for all the other blogs that I find typos/errors on. Apologies, for imperfections, friend.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:36:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

whose responsibility

is it to catch and correct typos? If other people can't type or spell, just leave their errors in. (I just changed my "there" to "their."

---

by: CathyG @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 18:55:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This just means.

People on this site really FEEL what they are writing. I know I make a zillion errors when my emotional sentence is way ahead of my fingers. Such a petty grievance when we are discussing the future of the country.  

To me it means the post with an error meant a whole lot more to the writer than the ones with perfect sentence and paragraph structure. Kudos to Lev aside, but he is a professional writer.

Also on this site when you preview, the font is still small and typos are not readily discerned by 'mature' individuals, (specially post wine in the evening. But who would ever!)

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:27:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Nope

My mistakes are because in RL, I tend to be a ninny. ;)

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:59:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

no, mine are from chronic sleep deprivation

I write quickly while half asleep, or in a rush during lunch. Aside from time on the weekends with long form essays to sit, think and compose, I usually let the posts fly and correct errors if I catch them.

As far as "it destroys your credibility," that assumes I have quite a bit to destroy. That's questionable, given some of opinionated emails I receive.    

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 23:01:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Fuhget abowt it, pam

i dont care if yoo hav a few typos evry now an thenn, i stil theenk yur the bomm  ;)

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by: Naperville Mom @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 23:15:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

that's

"da bombe." And i agree! :)

(leaving uncapitalized "I" intentionally in place...)

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:01:13 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm the queen of typos,

  My spelling is quite bad but I just keep trying.  When I write emotionally, I don't slow down to check and when I do I mis half of the errors but manage to get my point across.

 But the good thing is I have learned to read other peoples typos and it all makes sense to me. ;-)

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 23:42:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

JFK chose Johnson

The choice of HRC as Veep has already been made folks.

If she is on the ticket, Obama wins.

If she is not, Obama loses.

It's that simple The Obama camp is anything BUT stupid and they know this is the political reality of this year.

Kennedy knew that he needed a (non Catholic) Southerner on the ticket in order to win.

75% of Hillary's voters will support an Obama Clinton ticket and that will carry the day.

If you hate it, hold your nose and vote for it anyway.

The alternative is to horrible to consider...

2 SCOTUS nominees, Endless war, no governmental oversight, no FDA, no Justice Dept, reversal of Roe, and the eventual recision of the establishment clause so we can all be good little Christians.


Question:  What does an atheist do when they fall to the floor and start "speaking in tongues"?

Answer: Get a CAT scan.

---

by: Snooky Ookums @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:37:22 PM CDT

Regardless...

of whether she is or is not on the ticket, I will still vote for Obama and won't need to hold my nose if she's on it. But, I'm holding onto my personal opinion that I'd rather not see her on it.

I agree with Pam and others that this sense of entitlement and social progression order is ridiculous, and she's really twanging my last gay nerve with her attitude.

And where did Harriet get the idea that this is the Last Woman Candidate Ever? She's not the Alpha and Omega. There were others before her and there will be others after, and I'm excited to see the road ahead.

Just don't want a Clinton again, that's all.

Curses! My million dollar ideas foiled again: "God Bless Your Brand!" http://www.christvertising.com/

---

by: TJ McFisty @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:45:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Obama will win.

I don't believe Obama needs Hillary to win the US presidency.

He has already proven himself to be a fighter against McCrazyCain.  I am very confident that he will come out swinging big time aginst the republiCON choice once the general election campaigning starts this WEDNESDAY.

Hillary has proven herself to be a real loser with her tactics.  I never trusted her and prior to the presidential campaign, many her saw what a destructive force she could be.  Unfortunately, she has proven that to be true.

Hillary has a choice ... unite now for Obama or end up being persona non grata in the Democratic Party.

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by: Juan @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:06:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Get over it and move on, please.

I support Hillary, but I don't need Hillary on the VP ticket. Why is it an assumption that Hillary supporters in general still insist on being able to vote for her?.  The examples Pam has posted in this thread are the extreme.  It is not helpful to perpetuate this nonsense that Hillary supporters are all screaming mimis.  Get over it already.  Obamaniacs (and I mean this as an insult in no less terms than posting the email woman thing and the screaming mimi is an insult to all people who supported Hillary) need to get over the Hillary hate and move on.

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by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:50:15 PM CDT

there is no blanket attempt

...to portray all Clinton supporters as these extremist in the examples. The truth is no one knows how many are out there, not the crazies, but disaffected women who truly do not want to see Obama win the nomination.

I truly want to deconstruct what is going on -- I don't understand why so much of the anger is directed at Obama and/or the DNC (for the MI/FL on Sat.)? Obama has led this race since Super Tuesday, playing by all the rules that all of the candidates and the party agreed to at the outset. Why is the anger not focused on the people behind the Clinton campaign who ran it into the ground, despite the merits of the candidate herself? The sense of entitlement got the better of them when it came to strategic planning.

My (uninformed and wild) guess is that venting about that the above has no ability to change the outcome of this process, now that all-realistic (non-nuclear) options are exhausted. While there was plenty of misogynistic treatment along the way, I don't see a "women's voting bloc" that has been disrespected in the voting process itself (we're not talking about the sexist MSM), but it's clear there is a slice of ardent supporters of the NY senator who do feel that way, that some sort of fix was in.

Another problem is, I don't even know how one defines that term "women's voting bloc." I only hear in the anger the charge of gender bias that somehow race has trumped gender equality, and that's disturbing. If only that were true in the real world. For women of color, we get it on all sides, so these arguments can ring hollow, because in these discussions about disaffected women, it's as if we either don't exist, or don't/can't think independently when it comes to voting.

The situation with MI and FL was obviously a debacle, but all parties were aware of that from the beginning, and Clinton signed off on the process and rules herself. Even if Clinton somehow managed to get those 4 extra delegates that supporters are angry about (or even a full vote for all of them), she's bleeding superdelegates and still won't cross the finish line.

The question is, if Obama wins, why is this still unacceptable to some Hillary supporters, or why do many people think that something must be done to bring them back into the fold, as opposed to trusting they won't stay home or vote McCain? I'm trying to visualize any scenario that these particular voters would accept Obama at the top of the ticket. I'm trying to understand if this is passing anger and disappointment, or something we can and should worry about in November.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 13:01:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

not the same, not even close

there are multiple organizations out there proclaiming the illegitimacy of obama's nomination.  minnesota public radio just this morning interviewed a woman who heads a women's rights organization in the state, discussing how their members are being encouraged to write-in clinton's name rather than vote for obama.  they claim that sexism and obama's race have been the qualifiers for his lead.  and who is the headmistress of this nonsense?  who feeds this?

"getting over it" has nothing to do with anything posted on these threads when hillary herself can't seem to do it.  we'd all like nothing better than to get on with the nomination.  unfortunately, the clintons and the clinton supporters are stealing the momentum and doing terrible damage.  

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 13:02:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Reject Fear

Obama will win WITHOUT Clinton on the ticket.  So far, all head to head polling vs McCain has reflected the split with voters in terms of HRC and Obama. Wait until it's official that Obama is the democratic nominee.  Given the public's dissatisfaction with the state of the economy, the Iraqi occupation and Bush, McCain's repeated insistence upon defending the status quo and his close ties to the "decider in chief" will result in a resounding defeat for the republicans.    

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by: crescentdave @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:50:57 PM CDT

she alone has destroyed her chances of the VP slot

there was a time when i would have considered an obama-clinton ticket something of a dream.  clinton's ridiculous antics over the last several months--everything from coloring obama's imminent victory as illegitimate to her vile campaign tactics--prove her unfit to take the 2nd-in-command post.  she seems to only desire power, and will stake her own principles to retain it.  i think she's dangerous, and while i hope the obama campaign can offer her something to get her out of this race and allow us to move on against mccain, the VP slot is a horrible idea.  

The gays stole my lunch money

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by: matt in mpls @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:52:27 PM CDT

obama and anyone-but-billary

 JFK chose Johnson is right, the Obama folk are very smart....

which is why he will not pick Bill and Hillary to be VPs...
cause after all, you get one, you get the other...

we need their support during the campaign,
we need her leadership in the senate,
we  don't need their drama and scheming,
and Obama as president doesn't need to keep looking over his shoulder with the two of them in the VP estate and lusting for 1600.

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by: joe in oklahoma @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 13:12:31 PM CDT

Agree with Pam

I liked Hillary Clinton... as First Lady.  Once she got to the Senate, she started running for President by demonstrating that she was "centrist" by selling out consumers in favor of credit card companies and by supporting the flag-burning amaendment.  I've been wary of her since mid-2005 for those stands.  IMHO, this was her race to lose, and she did so by making glaring strategic errors in campaigning and fundraising.  She should not be rewarded for her mistakes.  But it goes beyond that.

This campaign season, I've seen changes in people that I would've bet a paycheck that I would never see.  My dad, a Republican for decades (but not a W supporter in 2004, thank god) who had never attended a caucus, caucused for John Edwards in Iowa in January. He has since donated to Obama's campaign, and he has never, in his 79 years, donated to a presidential campaign before. A VP at the very conservative corporation at which I work switched parties to support Obama.  

People want real change.  They want government to be responsive to them.  A young, dynamic leader who started with the slogan of change and stuck with it, and won with it, represents that.  A young African-American candidate who can beat John Edwards (who had a presence in Iowa for the last four years) and win Iowa represents significant change!  (I grew up in Iowa, so I think I'm allowed to make that statement.)  A candidate who ran with "ready on day 1" who later changed that to various slogans that never seemed to stick, who didn't take Iowa seriously until it was too late, who ran fear-mongering ads (3 AM phone call), does not represent true change.  A candidate who raised all the money he needs on the netroots represents the present and the future.  A candidate who raised money from big donors from connections to her spouse who underestimated the momentum of her challenger and then had to loan her campaign over $10 million does not represent that change.

I've been a hard-core femnist for over 25 years.  I was a huge supporter of Gerry Ferraro in '84.  My sister was pregnant with my parents' first grandchild that summer - a little girl, who is now grown up and married herself.  That campaign held so much promise that seemed to disappear for over two decades.  I understand the disppointment of those who wanted who see themselves reflected in the Presidency, who now wonder yet how much longer it will take.  But they need to remind themselves of what Al Gore reminded Howard Dean in the 2004 race - this isn't about you - it's about your country.  Take the time to grieve, yell, scream, drown your sorrows, whatever you need to do.  But then take a step back and look at the big picture.  Hillary's race was not for nothing.  She proved that a woman can compete for the Presidency - even a woman who makes some big mistakes has a legitimate shot.  Sexism is alive and well and she'll have to be prepared to deal with it, but a qualified, determined woman can win her party's nomination.  That's HUGE.

But the goal until November is to kick John McCain's candidacy to the curb.  We can't do it without the strength and determination and work of Hillary's supporters.  They are important and they matter and we need them.  No one will motivate them like Hillary will.  This is her chance to show she's a true leader, by convincing her supporters to get up and dust themselves off and work for the Democratic slate, from the bottom of the ticket all the way to the top.  This is her responsibility, to her supporters as well as to her country.  If she truly supports "hard-working Americans," then she'll work for change.

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by: OH les @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 13:38:25 PM CDT

Sorry to disagree, but...

America is too racist and divided today to elect Obama without every single one of Hillary's available voters along for the ride.

Without her on the ticket we have President John McCain.

President John McCain.

Like the sound of that?

Scares the bejaysus out of me...

Question:  What does an atheist do when they fall to the floor and start "speaking in tongues"?

Answer: Get a CAT scan.

---

by: Snooky Ookums @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 13:53:11 PM CDT

Just a thought

We can speculate as much as we want, but we don't know what Sen Clinton really wants.  Besides being the nominee, that is.

I am not sold on an Obama-Clinton ticket for the following reasons:

1.  While I think the country has moved to the point that either a woman or a person of color has a chance to win the election, having both a woman and a person of color on the ticket might be a little much.  We have grown as a culture since the mid 20th century, but not that much.

2.  I agree with Pam.  Sen. Clinton represents a view of politics that does not mesh well with the change message of Sen. Obama.

3.  The Republicans will take the campaign they were preparing for a Clinton candidacy and throw it at an Obama-Clinton ticket.  It doesn't matter that Clinton is not the presidential candidate.  If they can tarnish the ticket enough they might be able to turn enough independent and moderate Republicans voters away from Obama-Clinton for McCain to win the White House.

4.  There is no guarantee that the disaffected Hillary supporters will vote for a ticket where Sen Clinton is not given pride of place.  I strongly suspect that many of the more committed supporters would see the VP slot as a consolation prize.

5.  Finally, it is imperative for the Democrats to increase their numbers in the House and Senate if an Obama administration is to implement any of the proposals for improving the country in general.

As always, YMMV

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by: Zorya @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 13:54:53 PM CDT

I do not want to see Bill in the Whitehouse!

If she gets the VP, please divorce him and send him away!  He has done so much damage

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by: paulko @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 13:55:45 PM CDT

Obamaniacs?

This term is typical of a Clinton campaign's rampant, ongoing nastiness and dismissiveness toward anyone who dares question her right to the nomination.  Hillary's appalling willingness to use racism as a campaign tool should be enough to convince any right-thinking American that she is not fit for any public office, let alone the presidency.  Add to that her penchant for cozying up to right-wing extremists like Scaife and Limbaugh; her keenness to start a nuclear war with Iran; her gleeful expectation that Obama will be shot; her support for the war in Iraq; and her habitual (not to say pathological) dishonesty, and she is the last Democrat but maybe Joe Lieberman I'd want to see a heartbeat away from the presidency.  If objecting to all that makes me a "maniac," so be it.  I can  think of far worse things to be; I will tactfully refrain from listing them.

I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights.  -Archbishop Desmond Tutu

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by: QScribe @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 13:59:02 PM CDT

Oh really?

"This term is typical of a Clinton campaign's rampant, ongoing nastiness and dismissiveness toward anyone who dares question her right to the nomination.  Hillary's appalling willingness to use racism as a campaign tool should be enough to convince any right-thinking American that she is not fit for any public office, let alone the presidency.  Add to that her penchant for cozying up to right-wing extremists like Scaife and Limbaugh; her keenness to start a nuclear war with Iran; her gleeful expectation that Obama will be shot; her support for the war in Iraq; and her habitual (not to say pathological) dishonesty, and she is the last Democrat but maybe Joe Lieberman I'd want to see a heartbeat away from the presidency.  If objecting to all that makes me a "maniac," so be it.  I can  think of far worse things to be; I will tactfully refrain from listing them."

Wow! Anyone besides me see the irony / obvious overstatement in this post?

---

by: SharonB @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:14:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well, let's see:

Her campaign has been pretty nasty from where I sit.

I'm not sure how to interpret "hard-working Americans, white Americans" in a way that doesn't involve appealing to racism.

She did sit down and chat with Scaife, the right-wing bottom-feeder who was instrumental in setting Whitewater in motion and almost destroying Bill Clinton's presidency.

She referenced "obliterating" Iran in a televised interview.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that she was gleefully expecting Obama to get shot, and I wouldn't use the word "pathological" to describe her. But not all of the things that you bolded are overstatement--they're things she actually said, and I think her campaign should be held to account for them.

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by: Darkrose @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:22:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hillary is not stepping down tonight

I have it on good authority that her new talking point is that the election is not settled until the new president is sworn in, in January of 2009.  Until then, all options are on the table.

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by: Paul In SF @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:01:32 PM CDT

Oh jeez....

And what options are those, anyway? More bad math? Super...look forward to that.

Curses! My million dollar ideas foiled again: "God Bless Your Brand!" http://www.christvertising.com/

---

by: TJ McFisty @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:36:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I hope your authority isn't so good!

Paul, if that's true, it seems she might be considering running as an independent!  How else can she take it past the convention?  But even then, there's no way she could raise the required funds and no way she could win.

Unless she's counting on the VP spot and is still on the RFK track...

yikes.

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by: OH les @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:46:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Joey Lieberman

can be her veep- they can call their new party The Turncoat Party! ;)

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

---

by: Louise @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 15:00:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Or...

The Zells.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 15:03:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This tells us just how far out in left field

this election has gone.  I threw up something just so ridicules that I was sure I wouldn't have to label it "snark", and look what happens...

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by: Paul In SF @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:03:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I don't agree with the logic of that flyer

But if I did, wouldn't this line " Women were granted  the 'Right to Vote'  50 years after  Afro-Americans!" mean that Hillary was trying to jump ahead in line by 50 years, instead of the other way around, as her camp keeps claiming?  Just saying...

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by: Paul In SF @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:04:53 PM CDT

I will eat my hat

if Obama picks Hillary for his running mate.  If he does, it means that he succumbed to tremendous insider pressure to go against his principles to appease Hillary's sore-loser supporters.  This would go so far against his character and ideology that to me, it would signal that he's not the man I've always believed he was, and that he's willing to set aside his beliefs at the drop of a hat.

I refuse to believe he is capable of making such an ill-advised decision.  

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by: Naperville Mom @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:06:32 PM CDT

I'd prefer to see Senator Clinton

In a Cabinet post rather than VP.  Give her something to actually do besides go to state funerals.  HHS would be the obvious, but I'd like to see her at Defense.  

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by: Cheryl @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:07:23 PM CDT

obama and race

i agree Naperville Mom,
if anyone would have said 2 or 3 years ago that a black man with an arab name would beat the inevitable-candidate Hillary Clinton, they would have been laughed out of the room

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by: joe in oklahoma @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:32:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh, I don't know

Dick Cheney found plenty to do.

---

by: Paul In SF @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:00:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I need help

For some reason my mind went straight to, "Mistaking a 5 to 6 foot friend for a quail and giving him a face full of buckshot."

watashi no yomeiri wa doko desu ka

---

by: belfrieboi @ Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:12:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Probably not a good idea

I think it's disappointing that some Clinton supporters would say that Obama is only where he is because of his race.  How bizarre is that, anyway?  People seem to be forgetting that the other half-dozen candidates for the nomination were all white males, some of them very well-qualified.  Clinton and Obama beat out all of them, so it's obvious that Americans think both of these candidates are well-qualified, too.  Does anyone think Americans are just so desperate to have a black president that we'd take just anyone?  Because we all know how our society always promotes black men above everyone else, right?  That's ridiculous.

I find it hard to envision Obama and Clinton shaking hands and working together at this point.  I think he needs to pick someone with a lot of Washington experience but more crossover appeal, like Webb.  Obama can attract many more moderate voters without Clinton.  Why select an arch-enemy of conservatives if you don't have to?  I wish her well in the Senate and all her other pursuits, but I'm ready for her to be out of this race.

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by: Heidi @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:16:40 PM CDT

I always wondered about that

Does anyone think Americans are just so desperate to have a black president that we'd take just anyone?

It's a silly notion. I didn't see anyone bumrushing to the polls to vote for Alan Keyes or Cynthia McKinney.

---

by: Pam Spaulding @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:28:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Carol, too

Oddly enough, I didn't see any huge feminist groundswell of support when Carol Moseley Braun ran in 2004.

---

by: Darkrose @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:50:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Twenty four (24) years is eternity! (Last women candidate!)"

Does it help Clinton's cause to remind us all yet again of Dixiecrat demagogue Geraldine Ferraro?

...

There is no way the Clintons should come out of this with anything.  It should be overwhelmingly obvious by now that they can't stand being in a number two position--and will continue to be destructive if they are put there.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:31:37 PM CDT

clinton as veepee

i don't trust Hillary to be comfortable playing second fiddle to anyone, and i KNOW Bill can't play third fiddle!

---

by: joe in oklahoma @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:36:18 PM CDT

o gawd

spare us, please!

---

by: joe in oklahoma @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:48:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

BREAKING NEWS

as of one minute ago on MSNBC online:

Clinton says she's open to the idea of veep.

What a surprise.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

---

by: Louise @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:41:22 PM CDT

What?

Role of Queen already taken or did she figure out we don't elect those?

Wait...I thought she said she was in it to win it, long haul, not over til it's over, blah blah blah? And that was this morning with McAuliffe. So this afternoon VP has a nice ring to it? Whatever.

Curses! My million dollar ideas foiled again: "God Bless Your Brand!" http://www.christvertising.com/

---

by: TJ McFisty @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:47:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No Freakin' Way

Hillary has not been vetted!!!!!

The Vanity Fair article is just the beginning of the Clinton backlash. The corporate media has been holding onto stories to unload them later.

What's the source of the $18 million Bill earned that hasn't been revealed?
Who are the donors of the Clinton library?
What are the details of their dealings with Ron Burkle?

They have not yet conceded. They have not apologized for the harm they've caused. They have not taken any responsibility for undermining Obama's candidacy at every turn.

They set the tone and made this primary about Black man vs. White Woman instead of it being against a 3rd Bush term.  

Now they want Obama's help with paying off their $40 million debt that they used to try to destroy him when she could have and should have conceded two months ago?!!!

I DON'T THINK SO!!

---

by: heartsandflowers @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:45:43 PM CDT

First wave feminism?

I've noticed a lot of older feminists decrying the race vs. gender issue, making it sound as if Obama is doing well just because of his race. Notice the slight hysteria as they pronounce "a BLACK man?" Do they forget that he's half white too?

I've wondered if this mindset is the remains of the first wave feminism paradigm, and the real anger is behind the fact that a man is doing better than a woman candidate. Either way, I'm seeing s number of hard-core feminist Clinton supporters use racist speech in support of Hillary. I've noticed with most first-wave feminists I've talked to, they always want to play some sort of "minority trump" game, where their minority status as women trumps the status of other minorities. Haven't we moved beyond that to realize that we're not competing with other minorities, but for equality in comparison with the majority?

Maybe I'm totally off though. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

---

by: Rick @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:51:40 PM CDT

clinton scares me

Honestly, I think Hilary would have Obama killed in office if she was the number two spot.  her need to be the ONE in power scares me and I honestly think she will do ANYTHING to get it from what I have seen.

---

by: kampfer1973 @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 15:07:53 PM CDT

This kind of post is grotesque

Honestly, why don't we accuse her of global warming while we're at it?  Putting mercury in tuna?  Causing the earthquakes in China.  i support Obama, but even as a joke, this post is really awful.

It's time to stop the invective.


"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

---

by: Lev Raphael @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 15:48:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

She's the one who put the mercury int the tuna?

I didn't know that.

---

by: Paul In SF @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:09:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And all this time

I thought it was that damned Bumblebee.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

---

by: Louise @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 20:00:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

well she does blow a lot of hot air at times

But I am sure she did not melt an ice cap alone.
Awful as it may be, her desire for power seems to be extreme.
I do believe if given any opportunity she would do what she wanted to seize it from anyone she could.  I question her motives and I would question her ability to play second in command to anyone other than herself.  

---

by: kampfer1973 @ Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:41:58 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Unless Obama can convince me that

his fans in blogdom don't represent his approach to adversity, i'll just stay home on election day of he is the nominee.  the vitriol has been and continues to be disturbing and disgusting.  

Lurleen on Twitter

---

by: Lurleen @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 15:40:49 PM CDT

Blaming his fans on blogdom?

One could say the same about Clinton's fans.  Vitriol ahs been spewed on both sides.

I say ignore both sets of fans when they are extremist and listen to the candidates.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

---

by: Lev Raphael @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 15:46:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

There you go

being REASONABLE again!  

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

---

by: Louise @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:12:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Seriously!

Stop with that Earth logic, Lev!

---

by: Darkrose @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:23:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yeah, stop that Lev.

how can i rant in the face of reason?  

Lurleen on Twitter

---

by: Lurleen @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:12:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not a typo, it's my accent

Would you believe it's my asthma?


"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

---

by: Lev Raphael @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:39:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Be careful

You said "Vitriol ahs been spewed on both sides.", and someone was just complaining about typos.  

---

by: Paul In SF @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:10:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Spell check?

We don't need no stinkin' spell check!

---

by: Zorya @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:12:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

then I guess you'll sit quietly while

President McCain appoints conservatives to the Supreme Court and roles back the rights of women by 60 years. And I guess we won't hear a peep from you if someone you know/love gets drafted to fight the new 'War on Terror' front opened when we attach Iran.

Damn those Obama blogdom fans!

---

by: dcguy202 @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:04:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

that is 'attack' Iran

---

by: dcguy202 @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:05:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

We seem to be attaching Iraq--

having once attacked it, so "attach" seem like a good choice.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

---

by: Lev Raphael @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:40:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

How about all democratic voters stay home in November.

  Four years of McSame should be great for unifying the Democratic Party.  Really, think about it, if the thought of McSame being in the White House for four years can't unify the party, living might do the trick.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

---

by: HappyCat @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:08:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

happy cat.

That was NO ACCIDENT... and it makes a heck of a lot of sense.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

---

by: Orion45 @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:09:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Seriously?

I was in shock when I read your comment. I've seen you stand up for Clinton time and again, and have wished you the best as you've been attacked on this blog for doing so. I've respected you for looking at the issues logically and for raising some very important and thought-provoking questions regarding the nomination.

Then, you turn around and blame a man for what his supporters may say, and threaten to not vote for a rather silly reason. If that's your attitude, I hope you don't vote. Leave your flippant attitude to voting for issues like the next American Idol or whatever trivial thing happens to come along next.

In the meantime, I hope that McCain wins due to people who won't vote because of sour grapes. I hope that women's right to abortion is abolished. I hope that the war in Iraq goes on for another 8 years, with another few trillion dollars in debt racked up, and expanded to include Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. I hope that LGBT people lose what few rights they actually have and hate crimes more than double in the next few years. I hope we enter a full-fledged depression with even more people losing their homes and jobs. Basically, I hope we reap what we sow.

This election isn't a frivolous matter. There are a lot of major issues at stake with this presidential election, and I'm tired of supporters on both sides of the Democratic nominee coin act like they're five-year-olds fighting over Barbies.

---

by: Rick @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:34:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Speaking of vitriol.

I just re-read my comment and realized that I spewed a whole bunch at you, Lurleen. I'm sorry about that; it was extremely rude of me. Sorry about the personal attack in there too.

---

by: Rick @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:17:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

good thing i only skimmed it, lol!

but i appreciate your conscientiousness.  thanks.

Lurleen on Twitter

---

by: Lurleen @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:19:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

no, not seriously, but sorta

of course i will vote.  but it'll take a lot to get me out and work for his campaign.  not just because some of his supporters are total jerks (which is not his fault), but because although he is better than mccain, he is a civil rights sell-out.  what i will seriously do between now and november is spend my spare time and money defeating the california hate amendment.  some will say i'm cutting off my nose to spite my face by not going all out for obama (should he be the nom...), but i'm sorry, i'm too bone tired to work hard for yet another panderer (hillary clinton was the same on this in my eyes, btw).  

Lurleen on Twitter

---

by: Lurleen @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:18:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, your nose is fine

You should put your energy and effort where your heart and mind tells you.

If Sen Clinton had achieved the Democratic nomination I would vote for her in November but I would not put a lot of time or effort into her campaign.  

There are a lot of people out here who will work to see Sen Obama elected President.  Defeating the California marriage amendment will be primarily the job of the good people in the Golden State.

You go Lurleen, and do what you have to to keep that abomination from becoming law.

---

by: Zorya @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 18:33:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bravo

Everybody pitches in where they're most fitted and most needed.  We work from our passion.  That's how we change the world.

I am feeling very moved tonight, so pardon me if I seem corny.  Despite the differences, 34 million people came out and voted for a biracial man and a woman--on our side!  look what we offered America.

And look at McBush.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

---

by: Lev Raphael @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:43:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

C'mon Lurleen...

...we all know that you're better than that comment.  

---

by: johnbinpt @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:41:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Internet discussions

One of the problems with the online world is that some people subconsciously feel that the lack of face to face contact gives them permission to dispense with common courtesy and culturally mandated propriety.

In other words, they give free rein to their inner jerks.

I am an Obama supporter, but I don't hold flaming of the more radical online supporters of Sen Clinton against her.  I know that they are representing themselves, and not Sen Clinton.  I don't even hold the rhetoric of the less radical supporters against her.  She does not have the capacity to police the internet, and I doubt she condones everything that is said online in her name.

I would appeal to this community to maintain a level of civility that would reflect our appreciation to Pam for providing us this forum and to all the baristas for giving us such excellent, thought provoking content.

---

by: Zorya @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:47:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Amen

I am a Hillary supporter, but I will vote for Obama gladly.
My support for Hillary was not based on dislike for Barak.

I am somewhat concerned about the election if they don't put the dream-team together, because some people don't think Barak has the gravitas of McCain. I disagree, but there are probably a lot of people that feel this way.

Picking Webb or some other hefty Dem could be an alternate, we'll see.

Thanks, Zorya for the civility. THIS is how we put the party back together :)

---

by: SharonB @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:52:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree--

--and meant to say I regretted that wacko Clinton supporter getting so much attention on-line.  Like politics doesn't drive plenty of people crazy, or unleash it in them, and isn't her craziness all about her?  It has nothing to do with Obama or Clinton--she was acting out of who knows what kind of inner turmoil.  I felt sorry for her--she was an angry, troubled woman whose inner ugliness was what she was really expressing.


"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

---

by: Lev Raphael @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:45:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Right

A very dear online pal of mine is very pro-Clinton and extremely anti-Obama. We know each other's views, respect each other, and maintain peace- even though both of us can be very tempermental. It's because of her that I am trying so damned hard to curb my upset at Clinton and her campaign.

Some days, I do okay with that- other days, not so good. And that's my problem. We share here a passion for our country and that's a good thing. We need to look to the positives and work together...

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

---

by: Louise @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 20:05:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The internet and more

So true and calming.

Nor do candidates have the ability to police what each and every one of their political supporters or campaign workers says, which makes the gotcha on both sides really depressing. Enough, already.  Hell, bring your family together for just a wedding and somebody is bound to do or say something embarrassing. As Shakespeare wrote in "Much Ado about Nothing," "For man is a giddy thing."  

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

---

by: Lev Raphael @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:51:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What?

Seriously, this makes no sense.  Why would you blame Obama for the actions of others?  Would you want others to do the same to you.  This is so childish.  Obama has many of his own flaws that you can hold against him, so why hold him responsible for the actions of others.  Especially for the actions of people who he doesn't know, who arent' a part of his campaign, and who he doesn't control.

I hate getting flaming people over the interent, but this doesn't even sound like something that an adult would say.  We are talking about electing the president of the country, and this is the best arguement that you can come up with.

---

by: Cadence @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:36:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

OBAMA CLINCHED NOMINATION

one minute ago per MSNBC.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

---

by: Louise @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:25:30 PM CDT

Darn!

My husband is away on a business trip and I hate to drink alone.  :-)

I guess I'll toast Sen Obama's accomplishment with some really good coffee.

---

by: Zorya @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:52:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yay!

We raised glasses of nice Chilean sauvignon blanc at dinner and toasted again with Kona after dinner.  I think his speech will demand some single malt.  :-)

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

---

by: Lev Raphael @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:47:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Charlie is also away on biz

but I'm gonna look and see if there's any port left under the kitchen sink. A small-ish nip seems a good idea...

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

---

by: Louise @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 20:07:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'll wait

Hubby gets home Friday so I'll save the wine until he can share the toast.  

Wine makes me sleepy and we just now had a tornado warning buzz over Sen Clinton's speech so I reckon I need to be clear headed in case I have to herd the teenager and the cats and dogs into the basement.

---

by: Zorya @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 20:38:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Delegate!

Put the dogs in charge of the teenager and the cats in charge of you and the wine.

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

---

by: Lev Raphael @ Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:27:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

LOL

The tornados went to the south, the teenager went to bed, the dogs had hysterics over the thunderstorms, the cats ignored everything (typical) and I couldn't figure out how to use the fancy-smancy bottle opener.  :-)

---

by: Zorya @ Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:50:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Both candidates for nomination have immature advocates.

So? I agree with most of the Women's Rights email. But Hillary is really Billary, and I think it's a dreadful idea to have a First Husband ex-president who goes off on his own and is apt to contradict what Hillary the president says. What would YOU think if you were a foreign diplomat? So, reluctantly, I scratched her off my list and voted for Obama on Super Tuesday, which was well before the obnoxiousness elevated. I have to say I liked both of them (more moderate than I'd prefer, but realistically the best practicable), and had a hard time deciding.

Grow up, folks in a snit, who plan to vote for McCain.

---

by: NancyP @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:23:07 PM CDT

The only thing to stop an Obama/Clinton ticket

would be an inability for the two candidates to get past the immature behavior of their supporters, because be assured that there was immaturity and "ism" (sexism, racism) on both sides.  Clinton and Obama have nearly identical positions on issues, with Obama being able to claim the high ground by having opposed the Iraq war from the start while Clinton has a more robust, universal health care proposal.  

They would make an ideal ticket in many ways.  It would focus the Democratic Party on the job it needs to do - putting a Democrat in the White House - and it would instantly disarm the circular firing squad that has been forming during the Democratic primary season.

Let them both show their gracious sides, their abilities to put aside personalities and do what's best for the country.  It would make a good contrast with McCain and his legendary temper.  Maybe Hillary and Barack don't really like each other much, but I bet they do respect each other and must recognize that they share the same ideological goals.  Let each of them say to their supporters who are full of disdain for his or her former opponent: "This is a good person.  This is a person who has my full support and who fully supports me.  If you want to support me and my goals, then now we will all support this team."

This seems fully in line with Obama's New Politics philosophy of reconciliation.  He says he can work with Republicans.  Well, if he can't work with fellow Democrats who share his political goals, then McCain will make an issue of it.  

I would bet that McCain will be praising the heck out of Hillary Clinton tonight; he will be trying to pry her voters away from the Democrats, and he will have some success unless Obama makes a bold move.  I don't agree that Clinton is "owed" the VP slot, but I do think it would be politically smart for Obama to offer it and for her to accept.  

---

by: h0ipolloi @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 17:56:44 PM CDT

I don't think it's that easy.

I think that thst this decision isn't as easy as you make it sound.  

Obama has run on a platform of change, which has appealed to many independents, new voters, and Republicans, and for many of these people, Hillary represents more of the same.  Putting Hillary on the ballot would make many people believe that Obama is just playing politics as usual, and that his previous talk of change was just talk.  

Another problem, putting Hillary on the ballot will enegize a lot of Republicans to come out and vote against the ticket.  

Some Clinton supporters will be upset, but I think this group is on the fringe, and not representative of people who will actually show up and vote.  

Obama will be pressured, a lot, to put her on the ticket, but Hillary and Bill have a lot of baggage, and Obama needs to think about that.  He should also realize that the Clintons are two people who are not going to quietly accept a number two position.  They have a lot of power to help Obama, but this could be a very tense partnership.

---

by: Cadence @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:12:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

read the comments in this ABC article

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics...

Pathetically divisive.

---

by: Pam Spaulding @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 19:36:53 PM CDT

Oooh, that's nasty

Most of my friends and acquaintances are of the liberal/progressive bent.  It's always jarring for me to see comments like these.

---

by: Zorya @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 20:42:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes, can we all just get on to making sure a Democrat is elected this year?

---

by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 20:31:11 PM CDT

Yes! We Can! Yes! We Will!

Any yer little Congress too!

---

by: Zorya @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 20:39:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

posted in the another thread

Hillary's supporters will not like this timetable. HuffPost: Obama Camp Not Likely To Announce VP Until July.

As speculation about Hillary Clinton's vice presidential prospects reached near fever pitch this afternoon, it did so in the complete absence of any prodding, or even recognition, from the camp of presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama.

"We are not in the vice presidential phase here. ... We are not about long lists, short lists or any kind of lists tonight," Obama strategist David Axelrod told the Politico this afternoon.

But the Huffington Post has learned from a source inside the Obama campaign that its VP selection timetable may delay the announcement of a choice well past the next few weeks, into July. According to the source, the campaign sees no obvious upside in picking anyone immediately, including Clinton. The motivation for such a deliberate pace stems from the campaign's desire to get a cleaner look at how they match up with McCain, and what attributes they feel are missing going into the fall -- two judgments the campaign doesn't think it can reach until a few weeks have passed.

---

by: Pam Spaulding @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 23:34:16 PM CDT

What's the hurry for a VP choice,

  I like the idea of wait and see the direction McSame will be looking.  McSame has to do something to please the religious nuts of the right and also needs to stay away from Bush.  If McSame picks a VP in the center he will be toast with the wingnuts.  If he picks a VP like the Hucker he will most likely get the wingers on board bu loses the center.  McSames record is not center by anymeans, that is why he is using Holy Joe as a prop.  Holy Joe adds the war monger machine to McSame, but I don't believe McSame would choose Holy Joe as he would lose the christian right for sure.  It will be fun to watch the talking heads toss names around.  Speaking of Talking heads, how about Keith Olbbemann from countdown for the Obama VP

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

---

by: HappyCat @ Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 00:05:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

This page shows prime examples of how divided this party is right now...

Everyone seriously needs to calm down, take a deep breath, and take one step back.

After reading nearly 100 comments on this page, some of the arguments and insults thrown from one side to the other (on BOTH sides) are really disappointing. This is a monumental election, and it's the kind of bickering like this (on a larger scale within the party) that could lead us to another four years of a Republican presidency.

There are Clinton extremists, and there are Obama extremists. There are racist democrats who want to elect Clinton to avoid electing a black man. There are chauvinistic democrats who want to elect Obama to avoid electing a woman. These supporters are a minute sample of those who are voting, and I think it is dangerous to use either example in support of (or in support AGAINST) a candidate. Did Obama ask Rev. Wright to make extremist remarks? I guarantee you he did not. Did Clinton ask Harriet Christian to make racist remarks? Again... no, she did not.

This has been a heated campaign. Mistakes have been made, feelings have been hurt, but at the end of the day it is NOT too late to pick up the pieces that are still present, and take back the White House!

I voted for Clinton. I stand firm in my beliefs that she would make an excellent president. She is passionate, determined, intelligent, and experienced. I have also said since the beginning of the year that I would support Obama if he were to win the nomination, and I stand firm in that support now. I will support Obama in whoever he chooses as a running mate, but with such a strong, capable candidate as Clinton available, with an OBVIOUS group of supporters, many just as passionate about electing her as she is being elected, I think it would be a mistake for Obama to pass up on Clinton as his running mate.

Does this mean that Obama cannot win against McCain without Clinton by his side? No, it certainly does not. He has proven to everyone that he is capable of great feats, but I do think that selecting Clinton is a fantastic step in the right direction to extend the olive branch, and unite the Democratic Party on the journey to the White House.

---

by: wbenpc @ Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:48:17 AM CDT

Good post

I think this sets the right tone for helping to merge both camps. Like it or not, a very significant portion of Democratic voters support(ed) Hillary Clinton and she represents what they want in a candidate. Assuming that those votes are now "owned" by the nominee is just not realistic. Especially in the general election.

---

by: sleepdawg @ Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:33:24 AM CDT

[ Parent ]