White Male Privilege & Women's Fear Of Crime Intersecting With Gender Expression & Public Restrooms

I think you are spot on.

Autumn, brilliant post.
J/ee

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by: Julien Sharp @ Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 21:14:54 PM CDT

Race. class and gender

Thank you, Autumn.

We often discuss these very issues in my office. Fortunately, NOW (I am executive Vice President for the Maryland chapter of NOW) takes the confluence of these three factors -- race, gender and class -- very seriously. That may be why NOW has had no problem for several decades supporting not only the LGB community, but the T community as well. I have an essay on the Basic Rights Montgomery campaign to protect our county trans civil rights law on the front page of the current national NOW newsletter.

These are issues about which we must speak among ourselves and our allies. They are not ripe for sound bites or presentations to legislatures.

If anyone can conceive of a way to frame and express this core set of issues coherently and simply, it would be a blessing for all of us.

Dana

Dr. Dana

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by: danabeyer @ Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 21:34:27 PM CDT

Hey, Autumn.

Great analysis.

I've discussed this with Travis myself, and how when we started being perceived as men, we became seen as possible predators. For me particularly, I have had to modify my behavior with children. I'm a mom, and enjoy kids, and could, pre-transition, quite comfortably interact with them in public places, like in grocery stores. Ten years post-transition, not so much. Not just because of the alarm I've seen on mothers' faces when I grin and make eye-contact with their kids (which I've pretty much stopped doing), but because I'm nervous about teaching those kids that it's okay to connect with and trust strange guys in public places. I have two daughters of my own, and, as much as it hurts my soul, for their own safety, I've had to teach them to be wary of unknown men, and to be discerning about what kind of contact they're comfortable with with men they know.

Now, I'm this short, round (white) guy, and I'm pretty sure that I don't come across as particularly threatening to grown women, except potentially as one of those skeevy ogling and commenting creeps I remember so well from my years living as a woman. But as I'm gay, and don't do that (and wouldn't even if I were sexually attracted to women), I think, personally, with adult women, I'm pretty much of a non-issue. If I were to interact with kids the same way I did when I was perceived as a woman, I could be perceived as a pedophile on the make.

It sucks, y'know, that actual predation of women and children is so common that I, not unreasonably, could find myself pegged as a creep. It sucks that racism is rooted so deeply in our society that darker skin = even more scary.

It sucks that women have very good reason, due to constant, real predation, to be wary, in a general way, about men. It sucks, that transwomen find themselves caught on the very short end of this very nasty stick. These are such incredibly huge issues that need educating on, race and gender. Thanks for taking both of them on, Autumn.

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by: LesGS @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:48:22 AM CDT

Hi Les!

Nice to hear from you -- been awhile since we talked, eh? (And Travis is pretty darn smart, ain't he?)

But yeah, it's the intersections where perceived sex-and-gender meet with race that leave me a bit concerned. And,  in large part it's because of how these intersections effect the wide swath of transgender and gender-variant people's civil rights -- and the rights of transgender and gender-variant people to access public accommodations.

I'm with Dr. Dana -- this is too hard to explain quickly, or put into nice sound bites for general consumption. But, we need, as broader LGBT community, to start talking about these kinds of issues.

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~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau

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by: Autumn Sandeen @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:10:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

conflicts between image & actual risk

Young men are at far higher risk of being victims of murder and non-rape assault than other demographic groups, but they are (I'm betting) the least afraid of it. There's an interesting discussion going on at Making Light about how fiction trumps fact, that's got to be involved. Young white women are shown as helpless victims of stranger violence very frequently, so our brains says "you see how often white girls are in jeopardy! it's an epidemic!" -- even though it's not a particularly common form of violence in real life.

And I think there's a general assumption by men as well as women that violence against men "doesn't count", not really.

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by: doctorscience @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:22:25 AM CDT

that's true

I had a young, educated roommate who would not go out alone at night.  She stopped using the laundry room in our building because this older male tenant with no social skills freaked her out.

She insisted I, or one of her other male friends accompany her out or pick her up.

There are two things I just don't get about this.

(1) The facts show that it's not some stranger who rapes you.  My friend should be more worried about the men she's enlisted to protect her than she should be of some stranger in an alley.

(2) I don't understand living a life of fear and avoidance.  There are self-defense courses all over the place.  As a gay man in Chicago, I pay attention to my surroundings, especially in areas of the city I'm not familiar with.  If someone is making me uncomfortable I may hang back, choose a different path to my destination, or what have you.  But it would never occur to me to say "oh I can't go there, it's dark outside and I'm by myself".  The world can be a scary place if you let it be, if you assume this sort of "I'm going to be a victim" mentality. I don't think avoiding the world is going to save you from the bad people in it.

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by: PunkZanyJ @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:55:38 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

maybe her instinct was right...

Gut feelings are worth listening to. I am not particularly afraid in general, but when I do feel afraid, I pay attention. Also, she may be afraid because she's already been victimized.

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by: NancyP @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:53:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you, Nancy

I don't think it's for men to second-guess women's feelings. Men have been using their male privilege to override women's feelings for ages now.  

Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

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by: Hypatia @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:22:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Women and danger

Young women haven't necessarily figured out that the boogeyman is not in the dark alley. That said, people who look and act scared (as opposed to aware) are more likely to be targeted for random crime.

The guy in your building "with no social skills" may well have done something creepy to her more than just being awkward. He may have tried to get too close or touch her. He might have said something disconcerting your ears didn't hear. The "awkward" types do learn what behaviors they'll be called on if they do when their target is not alone. Being cornered in a small, poorly travelled space with such a person is quite scary to me. I wouldn't blame your friend for avoiding the facility if it's one of his hangouts, if he follows her when he sees her go there, or he's just so creepy she doesn't want to chance running into him. In my experience, men have a harder time picking up the "creepo" signals that women seem to be quite attuned to.

That said, women (especially white women) are taught to fear strange men and unknown places. It's a part of socialization, particularly in the suburbs. I have never been afraid to be out alone at night. Like you, I carry myself with particular awareness in unknown or possibly unsafe places. But I missed class the day where my peers were taught to fear all strangers, especially brown-skinned ones.

It can be a struggle to remind myself that my friends were brought up differently, and that they need time and sometimes a guiding question or two. Some of them will never feel safe. Some of them will never gain the confidence to go out alone, even down the block to 7-11. I'll bear with them.

This is a dangerous society for women in ways that you may never fully understand. The danger is not just taught to us by memorization but by actions of young men our age and old men who ought to know better. The gropes in the hall at school, the boyfriends who won't take no for an answer, the old men who leer at us and slap our asses as we walk past them in the park and pretend they know nothing. The best friend's brother. Sometimes our own brothers. The guy at the newsstand who makes dirty comments about our bodies as we walk away.  The stories of our mothers and sisters and friends all corroborate this. If you do not know the psychological and physical invasion that is rape, I hope you never come to. "Self defense" will not save us when a man drugs our drinks or has his friends holding us down. It will not save us when our husbands demand our marital duty, like it or not, because it's our duty dammit. It will not save us from the public shaming when we confront an attacker or abuser and he is supported by his friends and family. And often our friends and families. If this is the reaction of the people who know and supposedly love us, how much worse will strangers be?

According to RAINN, 17.7% of American women experience sexual assault in their lifetime. It's entirely within reason that your friend may have been attacked once (or regularly abused) already in her lifetime. Please be patient with her. The fear a lot of women live with is slightly exaggerated, but neither irrational nor hysterical. Sometimes when the world treats us like meat it's hard not to herd like cows. Some days even I'm not up to the challenge of going it alone.

This got a bit longer than I intended. Hopefully it helps you see what might be going on for her. You also might want to ask (if it won't be invasive) what her feelings really are. It seems like you're going on a lot of observation.

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by: DC @ Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 17:42:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Wonderful that you...

   so freely explained and expressed so well. It was not too long. It was perfect for educating the unaware, although I know they have heard these claims before. I don't think they fully realize this happened/s to their mothers, their daughters, their sisters, their girl friends and their wives and to younger boys by older boys in a neighborhood or with whom they go to school. And it happens all the while around them.

   There was a Russian girl stabbed to death in a stairway leading to her apartment in Brooklyn a couple years ago. Predators plan, and if women don't the odds of possiblity becoming a victim sky rockets.

   One more, there was an innocent Japanese girl vacationing in New Orleans one year and wandered along a levee of the Mississippi River, where she was found stabbed to death in broad daylight. Predators strike where they can and they are very aware of how, when and the wiles to deceive and over come and innocent person. They also do use cover, not necessarily darkness, but they will fit in with the surroundings and look very innocent or act very kind and harmless. 

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 19:39:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you

Thank you for your kind words.

Another observation: Often I find it is our trust rather than our fears which are poorly placed.

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by: DC @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:31:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Demograhpics

  Your basis for these findings is on two people, 2, which I think, exaggeration is an understatement. People make mistakes and two mistaken identities is hardly anything to hypostatize and write a lengthy hypothesis.

Also, 

If one considers the transgender woman to be a woman

  How would one "consider" a, so called, transgender woman, which is an oxymoron in itself, to be a woman, if the person/s are not taking prescribed HRT, Hormone Replacement Treatment, having female hormones in their body to feminize facial features and mannerisms, are not taking prescribed antiandrogens to lesson the effects of testosterone, in physical appearance and sexual arousals to the opposite sex, and of which both of these reduce sperm production. And why would a "so called" transgender woman or "any woman"(and I'm not considering or reducing to the science fiction of propagation) want sperm productions and to shoot the produced sperm except as a transsexual male?   How does one consider a transgender woman to be a woman when they are not living full time as a female, but in fact, playing a dual role at will, by living as a male during daylight hours or any part time hours, working as a male, with a male name and living with the "male privilege" and dressing either male or female at a whim?

  The transgender merry-go-round, where anyone can get on or off when ever they like.

  As a transsexual, this is my life, not a game as it is for the transgender riders. It's not any different than a rider in any policy. They are tagging on to the coat tails of transsexual women and the results are a failed ENDA The term transgender is a poison pill.

  Rider: a rider is an additional provision annexed to a bill under the consideration of a legislature, having little connection with the subject matter of the bill. Riders are usually created as a tactic to pass a controversial provision which would not pass as its own bill. Occasionally, a controversial provision is attached to a bill not to be passed itself but to prevent the bill from being passed (in which case it is called a poison pill).

are we also unknowingly talking about perceived sexual orientation/heterosexual privilege, race/white male privilege, black male predators, and rape/white women's fear of crime?

  A contortionist statement to say the least. Without individuality, we will no longer be humans, but humanoids. Attaching the term "heterosexual" is to say that one can be judged straight or gay by appearance. Attaching "rape/white women's fear of crime" is disproportionate since all women fear the crime of rape and cannot be measured by race. You cannot rate the fear and/or the results of rape by race. That in itself is racist. Many and much of the racial fear stereotyping is influenced by indigent and poverty stricken males and statistics in the latter years, not irrationality as many would have one to believe.

  Personally, I have completely different feelings by observations alone about black persons of a similar financial standing as I, and similar feelings about white and black persons in poverty stricken geographies. I trust both less in impoverished geographies, whether black or white, but many times I trust blacks a little more, because they see me, a transsexual woman, not in the stereotypical observations as affluent white males and females.

  There is much more demographics to consider than your limited

perceived sexual orientation/heterosexual privilege, race/white male privilege, black male predators, and rape/white women's fear of crime?

That's what I like about PHB, you can never be sure what blend they'll try to serve you. Sort of like ordering for real coffee at an espresso shop and getting freeze-dried.

   

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:10:42 AM CDT

Let's just not go there....

Who is an isn't really a woman, how people who make sperm get erections at the site of an attractive member of the opposite sex...

There's too much to unpack, we've been there, and it takes us away from the excellent points Autumn was making.

Oh, and in terms of the perceived demographics of crime, witness the Madison police's crackdown on homeless men (many of who are of color) in the wake the murder of 2 college aged white women in two years.  Many people here are panicked.  Pretty young damsels are dying, and ZOMG there are poor black men everywhere-- we should be afraid to go outside!

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by: eastsidekate @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:02:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Virginia Prince split the "T",

   not I. You should know this eastside.

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 15:44:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Info on Prince splitting the "T"...not I.

In 1961 Prince got together some of the subscribers to Transvestia who began to meet in the Los Angeles area. Known initially as the Hose and Heels club, this evolved around 1962 into a national organisation called the Foundation for Full Personality Expression, (FPE or Phi Pi Epsilon) with a magazine for members called Femme Mirror (Prince, 1997b: 352). FPE was clearly aimed at those cross-dressers who, like Prince (at that time), were heterosexual and married: homosexuals and transsexuals were not admitted.

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 16:13:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Splitting the "T"

Membership of FPE could be applied for after having subscribed to and read 5 or more issues of Transvestia. Acceptance was then dependent on approval of the application form, payment of dues and personal interview with an area counsellor (Transvestia, 1972, vol. XII, no. 72). According to Feinbloom (1976: 62), interviewers were cautioned against accepting "bondage or masochistic people, amateur investigators, curiosity seekers, homosexuals, transsexuals or emotionally disturbed people."  

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 16:19:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

PhyllisMe. FYI

The  FEMALE sexual attraction and arousal hormone is TESTOSTERONE! Exactly the same form it is in men. Many women take this as a means to maintain their own biologic libido, using exactly the same pharmacologic supplements as men, just in doses that are about one tenth as much. Transexuals are given commensurate amounts. There is a wide range of 'normal' values based on individual sensitivities and life stages.  

Enough 'T' splitting lets all just determine to oppose discrimination of anyone in any form. 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 14:10:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks for the correction...

    you are correct. I was in the heat if a "rush"...and just ran with it.

    Shall I rewrite the whole thing or do you get my gist?

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 18:46:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I understand your gist

that it is not just a frivolous lark to commit to permanently living full time as a woman in every respect (such as legally changing one's name and gender ID) and to radically transform one's body and mind with hormones, let alone get sex reassignment surgery. It's serious business, exposes a person to the sort of vulnerability that only women can know, and ought to earn one the right to function as a woman in all contexts in society. It just isn't comparable with crossdressing on a whim. I agree that the term "transgender" is unhelpful here, since it obscures the important distinction between the two. (There will always be special cases of transsexuals who for medical or financial reasons aren't able to have hormones or surgery, but there still has to be some criterion for serious full time transsexuals.)

Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

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by: Hypatia @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 23:19:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you...

   Hypatia.

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 15:17:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

My problem with this...

 

 

Enough 'T' splitting lets all just determine to oppose discrimination of anyone in any form. 

  is, as I have so often stated, that so many demanding to use the women's restrooms, they are so selfish not to even consider, these men dressed as females claiming they are transgender but yet they practice life as males, the effects it may have on young teen girls or the transsexuals who do live as females. I don't want men in rediculous make-up, masculine physiques, size 12 and 13 wobbling feet in heels, fish nets and dresses standing up and peeing next to me either. Can't I say my opinion please? I have even stated how I was subjected to lurkers at a mens restroom and how uncomfortable it made me feel being locked behind a closed door, my pants down trying to take a crap and not being able to see what the people are doing on the other side of the door, but knowing they followed me in there after watching me from the time I appeared towards the restroom door. It was a cruising spot for gay males and I hated going there, but I was broke down waiting for a part for my van.  It was the fact that these hawks were circling me and crowding me, that really bothered me and I speak for young teen girls that aren't here to speak for themselves and for me, not desiring the effects of the so called transgenders who practice life as males in womens restrooms. That is not splitting the "T", that is considering the rights of all for egress and ingress of the womens restroom.  
  I know the naked city, but seems too many here have lived a sheltered life except for news reels, and are insensitive to others rights also. That is what is splitting the "T", from the rest of society as does being closeted in this day and time. As I did, I choose to stay in the closet while living as a male and I feel that those who live in the closet, and particularly, so called transgenders who practice life as males, should stay in the closet until which time they decide they are female and need to live as they're true self, female. Until such time they should use the bar restroom where they carouse.
  If one doesn't vote then they shouldn't grip about what they don't have or about the way things are. It's not any different with the closeted. If your out of the closet, you casting a vote on a daily basis and your helping to prove to society that we are not any different than the rest of society. If they, the so called transgenders who  live as males and want to have rights as women to use the women's rest room then they should come out of hiding and be a part of society as the transsexual does, otherwise shut the hell up. I never will though, because I am out and live daily as female.    

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 15:16:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If one considers the transgender woman to be a woman...Clearly not a woman

   the originator of the term transgenders states here, that they are not women, but are "heterosexual, values his male organ and enjoys using them" Clearly, not a woman.

She distinguishes the homosexual and the transsexual from what she calls the "true transvestite" (Prince, 1957: 84). The true transvestites are "exclusively heterosexual. Frequently they are married and often fathers." She continues, "The transvestite values his male organs, enjoys using them and does not desire them removed"(1957: 85). She later began to call the true transvestite a "femmiphile" (FP), defined as "lover of the feminine" (Prince, 1973: 22).

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 16:29:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Extraordinary analysis, Autumn

Your posts just keep getting better and more thoughtful.  Please don't stop.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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by: QScribe @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:15:53 AM CDT

Autumn my love, outstanding analysis

  Thank you so much, Autumn. Great way to get the thread started.
 I can only add, that I learned something about the public at large and perception of threat as opposed to actual threat.
 I mentioned to members of TownHall that I am a member of the LAPD as a forensic photographer. I tell them that I have considerable access to crime information as well as years experience in the field. And a big city like LA gives much opportunity to examine how the gay and trans members of society figure into the equation. Not only as victims, but as perpetrators too.

 I cautioned the group discussion at TH regarding gender and orientation bias. Clear examples are heterosexual female ephebophiles, as opposed to gay ones. And the difference in their treatment in the law. From suspicion to evidence.
 I made NO impression on the folks there at all. Their perception of THEIR priviledge was virtually non existent, while their perception that gay people are receiving IMMENSE amounts of priviledge was strong.

   I believe that this very discussion WE are having here at the Blend is over their heads. I have found an intense lack of intellectual honesty at TH.

 Very important of course because lives depend on honesty.
It bears analysis why people stick to their prejudices at the expense of common sense and socially cooperative actions against those who ARE a threat.

    Thanks again Autumn, you have indeed hit on a very important subject that can't get enough analysis.

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by: Regan DuCasse @ Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 13:54:30 PM CDT

They way they were treated by security was unfair

and discriminatory. Plain and simple. They had women with them who explained they were in fact women which should have resolved the issue. But as a woman and a woman of color my initial reaction to seeing Tanya in the bathroom would have been one of suspicion and it is entirely due to her appearance not her skin tone. Khadijah looks more like a [butch] woman to me, but Tanya looks like a man. I have had to do quite a few double-takes living in San Francisco and I find I am constantly learning about gender and identity.

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by: heartsandflowers @ Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 14:23:56 PM CDT

And hence, she distances herself from Transsexual, so as I have said...

   being a transgender and a transsexual is an oxymoron. Virginia Prince distances herself from Transsexuals, fearing the "sexual" part of the word but not afraid to express the sexual, a contridiction: the "transvestite values his male organs, enjoys using them and does not desire them removed".

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 16:41:07 PM CDT