So what, exactly, are you saying, Ralph?

with all due respect,

i don't think his comments perpetuate anything, divide or otherwise.  i think nader is completely irrelevant this cycle.  bob barr is the new spoiler, and he will spoil it for mccain.  i think we should focus on him and the states he will help mccain lose.

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by: Lurleen @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 16:36:55 PM CDT

Exit strategy

Ralph Nader needs to get into his Ford Pinto and drive off into the sunset. The 40,000 votes he got in Fla in 2000 denied Gore the election.

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by: Bill Ware @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 16:51:03 PM CDT

Ralph who?

Oh, that guy. Shouldn't he be dead by now?  

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by: vanitysmurf @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 16:57:03 PM CDT

Offensive

That's my reaction. But then I've never been a huge fan of Nader.

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by: CathyG @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 17:04:55 PM CDT

Ralphie jumped the shark ages ago

and can not stand the fact he is irrelevant these days

Accusations of "talking white" or "acting white" are things kids hurl at minority kids (primarily black kids but maybe even latino/hispanic ones too) who excel in school/work.  It's an inane attempt at using peer pressure that people use because they're jealous.

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by: ol cranky @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 18:26:17 PM CDT

I don't think it is even credible for a white person to accuse someone

of acting white.  That is just bizarre.

BTW, although Nader's parents were Maronite, I don't think he identifies as Maronite.

If you want allies, you have to be an ally.

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by: dale @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 19:00:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ralph Nader -- Uncouth at any speed.

It is truly sad to see a formerly great man continue to repeatedly embarrass and humiliate himself.  He was once a true man of the people and one of our greatest consumer advocates.  Somehow, something went wrong sometime prior to the year 2000.  I honestly think he has some form of mental illness as evidenced by his unnecessarily adversarial behavior in recent interviews I've seen.  He has been very combative even with people who still have a great deal of respect for him. I pretty sure he has some form of personality disorder, and I hope he seeks and receives help.

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by: Storm @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 18:53:21 PM CDT

Bill Clinton?

Same pattern, imo.

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by: Louise @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 05:54:32 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's sad ...

I used to really admire Ralph Nader, and still have tremendous respect for what he accomplished.  To me he had drifted into narcissistic self-deception by 2000 when he talked about "no real difference" between Gore and Bush ... and by 2004, he was just irrelevant.  To see him engaging in and then defending such color-aroused language is just pathetic.

Ah well.  It'll be interesting to see what effect this has on his legacy.

jon

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by: jonpincus @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 00:20:02 AM CDT

Poor Old Ralph

Just to counteract a little.

The two party system is completely rotten.

People who believe one tenth of Barack Obama's political promises (or anybody else's, for that matter) are ridiculously gullible. Nothing is going to change next year. The troops are not coming home; war will continue; the environment will continue to degrade; they'll drill the Arctic, fuel and food prices will continue to increase, and Milton Friedman's crazed unregulated free-market technocracy will still be the One and Only Religion for the political/economic class all over this planet as they attack one after another reeling nation after earthquakes, wars and tsunamis and put systems in place that will continue to make it IMPOSSIBLE to stop any of the excesses of our deranged consumer culture.

And there's nothing that President Obama can do about any of it but take the blame from FOX for four years.

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by: steerpike66 @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 06:26:11 AM CDT

We're all grown-ups, I'm sure you're largely right

...though I'd say that over the last 8 years, we've seen that a president has the power to do great harm, even if they lack the power to usher in an era of gummi bears and unicorns.

Moreover, I'm still not clear on what you're arguing. Nihilism? I was really into that through sophomore year of college, before I realized that a person's inability to make the world 100% better was not an excuse for inaction or indifference. That sort of argument excuses the lamest of our citizens from going to the polls every year and allows them to do nothing but snipe with self satisfaction. "See? I do nothing because I know nothing will come of it." Who knows maybe you're one of those extremely active and committed pessimists. I've met them before. Even so, you see that the logical conclusion of nowhere thinking lies in the land of nothing.

Besides, if I want to hear about political purity, it won't be from a man who refers to gay rights as "gonad politics."

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by: janinedm @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 10:15:44 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ralph may have a point

I'll not say that he's right about Barack Obama, but he's touching on a very real distinction in how people want to think about race in this country.

Some people look to the differences in incarceration rates, home ownership, wealth, etc. as evidence of very real institutional discrimination.  Others point to equal rights laws, public damning of overtly racist speech, etc. and say 'well, we've done our bit'.  Proponents of the latter don't like the rhetoric of proponents of the former, which is not surprising: most people don't like to be told that they've been unfairly privileged and need to give up some of that to help correct the problem.

Nader wants to align himself with the people who are saying that the job is barely half done and that we need to deal with structural problems that appear to be race-neutral on the surface if we want to make more progress.  As a white Canadian-American guy from northern California who has moved to a small southern town and seen the race divide first-hand -- you'd be hard pressed to find a white janitor or a black lawyer here -- I agree that such action is needed.  

As to whether Nader was right to peg Obama in the latter rather than former category, I'll leave that discussion to some of the other posters after one related observation: as much as it bothers me, the truth is that somebody who clearly and vociferously spoke out against institutionalized racism would probably have a hard time getting votes from white folks.

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by: pgraydon @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 06:59:14 AM CDT

i think he was onto something with the white guilt remark.

not that most whites supporting obama are doing it out of white guilt, but rather that some whites feel relieved that they have the opportunity to support a black person (that they like anyway), and so can prove to themselves they are not racist but more importantly make a silent pay-back for all the racism they've seen other whites spew.  i'm not sure if i'm making sense here, but i know i've discussed this with family, and it was a common conclusion early on in the campaign.

but he was just wrong about "acting white".  it is true that obama isn't vocally "black power", but he's not a white wannabee either.  he is doing the equivalent of what hillary clinton did in the man's world of politics - working hard to be himself.  reminds me of martina navratalova opining back in the 1980s that she didn't want to be known as the lesbain tennis player or the best women's tennis player, she wanted to be known as the best tennis player, period.  people, nader included it seems, feel the need to put qualifiers on anyone from a minority group.  obama, clinton and navratalova reject those qualifiers.

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by: Lurleen @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 11:05:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]