Landmark hearings on transgender discrimination begin

The Alliance of Darkness Fund...

tried to claim that transgender employees were forcing their morals on employees!

And it got sillier.  He said that gender identity is like religious identity because you can't see it.  Therefore, since religious expression in the workplace isn't protected, gender identity shouldn't either.

Then he made the wierd argument over (what else) restrooms. He used the example of a substitute bus driver who drove a different route every day.  Because this pre-op driver used different restrooms every day, this opened up the transit company to potential lawsuits.  And the company had no options. (like, um, transferring her to a position with a regular restroom?)

If you want allies, you have to be an ally.

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by: dale @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 12:03:57 PM CDT

????

Since when is Religion not protected in th workplace?

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

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by: Daimeon @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 12:53:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

perhaps I erred, I'm ill today

and my powers of concentration are even duller than they normally are.

The McClatchy news service summarized Lavy's testimony thus:

Opposing the legislation, Glen Lavy, an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, said it would be a mistake to define gender identity or gender expression as a protected class. He said that objections to "the concept of transgender" are based on religious beliefs and that forcing the idea as a valid concept "is like forcing an Orthodox Jew to eat pork." And he said that employers would have difficulty enforcing dress codes and assuring privacy.

"With gender identity being totally subjective, who could challenge any male who says he wants to use a woman's restroom?" Lavy asked.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/173...


If you want allies, you have to be an ally.

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by: dale @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 16:33:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What?

Transgender like eating pork?

Lavy and the ADF are such useless tools.

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by: SharonB @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 17:00:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Idiotic

That analogy is idiotic.
The objection of transgender is to what another person does with their own person not what is done to the objectors person.

A true analogy would be to say it was like forcing an Orthodox Jew to put up with a co-worker eating pork.

And we know that its already well understood that one person cannot force their own religious views onto another. The Orthodox Jew doesn't have to eat pork himself but he doesn't have the right to require his coworkers to not do so.

The objector isn't being forced to crossdress just to put up with a co-worker being transgendered. So the Orthodox Jew isn't being forced to eat pork or work on the Sabbath they are just being forced to allow a co-worker to eat pork or work on saturday.

In fact this false analogy is so idiotic that looked at properly it works as a pro-trans argument!

Being forced to dress inappropriatky to gender identity in the workkplace is EXACTLY like being an Orthodox Jew being forced to eat pork because the workmates are christian. It is EXACTLY having what one does with ones own person determined by the religious views of others in the workplace.

Anyone got this guys email address? I want to send him a copy of that point!

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by: battybattybats @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 19:32:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

common sense

@BBB--"A true analogy would be to say it was like forcing an Orthodox Jew to put up with a co-worker eating pork."

Exactly, that's the perfect response needed here. I kept waiting for someone to say that. It would have demolished the nonsense at once.  

Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

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by: Hypatia @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 23:30:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

are they just on break

or is it over?  i only now had a chance to watch, but there is nothing happening at the video link.  

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 13:06:44 PM CDT

I believe they finished up about 30 minutes ago

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by: eastsidekate @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 13:18:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

bummer i missed it

i look forward to hearing Autumn's and others' blow by blow and analysis.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 13:33:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Glen Lavy

Was looking like a deer caught in the headlights. He actually seemed stunned speechless at times. Rep. Andrews was tenacious, but fair.

Lavy was looking every bit what Brendan Sullivan complained of being traeted as during the Iran Contra Hearings:

"What am I, a potted plant? I'm here as a lawyer. That's my job."  

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by: Kathleen @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 13:14:16 PM CDT

Levy got served

So nice to see him get served.

 

 

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 13:20:56 PM CDT

HRC Back Story blog had a running commentary and mentioned

this:

OMG an amazing exchange just took place! Rob Andrews pressed Lavy on his claims that forcing religious employers to hire transgender workers would be like "forcing an Orthodox Jew to eat pork." Andrews asks whether an Orthodox Jew with a law firm could refuse to hire a Catholic. Lavy is forced to respond in the negative. Andrews then presents a series of similar scenarios - should a pacifist be allowed to discriminate against a Vietnam vet? - and Lavy just looks at him blankly, speechlessly. Andrews is killing him right now and eloquently making the point that the "religious conscience" argument does not hold up to scrutiny. I wish I could type faster or had video! Because this is DELICIOUS. The overflow room is rapt.

http://www.hrcbackstory.org/

If you want allies, you have to be an ally.

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by: dale @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 16:38:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

link to testimony

here is a link to testimony given today.

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Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 13:37:28 PM CDT

Heinz transphoic tv ad

Heinz portrays transman as a walking, breathing joke:

http://tinyurl.com/5jfom7

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by: Storm @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 15:20:12 PM CDT

Nice looking man....my transman is too.

But the ad is not done well at all, you are right. At first I though this was referring to the mayonnaise ad... and that MUM was a Transman...but I thought how would your know and who cares anyway!

Straight for Equality MD 

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 18:49:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I thought it was pretty funny

Maybe it's a difference between Australian and US humour.

I have to tell you a story. As you might know, I'm a Rocket Scientist, and worked at AusSpace for 2 years just before my unusual transition. I had a lot of dealings with a young hotshot called James Moody. He's a genius, well-connected, and a high-flyer. He deserves all the hype he's got, and more. In May 05, my system went haywire, I started changing, and transitioned. I was fulltime by the end of July, as I no longer passed as male, was only 2/3 the mass I was in April, etc. I started hormones in August, but it wasn't until January 06 that I'd ramped up. They had no effect anyway - I'd changed as much before HRT as I was ever going to. (Pictures here).

Anyway, come December 05, James had made the finalists of Cleo magazine's "most eligible bachelor". And there was a formal "do" to celebrate mission completion of the FedSat satellite. James was having a great time, kissing - and not chastely - all the many women that flocked around him.

So I went up to say "Hi", and give him the news - I'd last seen him in March - and, er, well, received a kiss before I knew what was happening. Then I told him who I was.

That Ad reminds me of that. Transphobic? No, just the way things are for us sometimes. To use the Australian vernacular, bloody hilarious.

I guess you had to be there.
 

There is no situation so complex it can't get even worse

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by: ZoeB @ Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 04:22:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The Traditional Values Coalition is not amused

Note the demeaning language

---------------------------------------

Americans Face Energy Crisis While House Of Representatives Holds A She-Male Hearing!

June 26, 2008 - Washington, DC -"Americans face rising gasoline prices; and brave American soldiers are being killed on the battlefield to fight Islamic terrorism - while U.S. Rep. Robert Andrews (D-NJ) holds a hearing today on "discrimination" against drag queens and she-males in the workplace. What's wrong with this picture?" asks TVC Executive Director Andrea Lafferty.

"Why is the House of Representatives wasting taxpayer dollars to discuss whether or not drag queens or she-males are offended because of their cross-dressing or sexual behaviors in a business environment? I already know the answer: Because liberals like Robert Andrews are aggressively promoting the normalization of cross-dressing and transsexualism in our culture," said Lafferty.

She continued: "This freak show must come to an end - and the House of Representatives should get back to important issues such as passing legislation to permit drilling for oil on our own sovereign territory and securing our borders from illegal immigration. The House should be passing legislation to protect the parental rights of girls who are driven across state lines for abortions; the House should pass the Broadcaster Freedom Act to protect conservative and religious broadcasters from efforts by liberals to reinstitute the so-called 'Fairness Doctrine' - which will censor the airwaves.

"Let's stop this nonsense of pretending that men who dress like women are normal and should be considered protected minorities under federal law. These are deeply disturbed individuals who need therapy not coddling and affirmation by a liberal majority in the House of Representatives. Rep. Andrews should be embarrassed and ashamed for holding such a useless hearing."  

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by: BarbieAnn @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 17:30:21 PM CDT

I love the smell of blatent hate speech in the morning

In the movie "Super Troopers" two cops have a bet that they can't slip the word "meow" ten times into an interview with a motorist they just pulled over. I've got that same feeling again. Please someone tell me that The Traditional Values Coalition have a bet with Focus on the Family that they can say "shemale" and "drag queen" as many times as possible, because otherwise, I'm going to be ill.

This type of out-in-the-open hate speech is exactly why transgender persons NEED protections. One class of people thinks it's okay to verbally trash us, another thinks it's okay to taunt and threaten us and still another group thinks it's not neccessarily a bad idea to smash us over the head with a pipe a few dozen times.

We aren't promoting any "normalization" of transfolks, but protecting us from blatent hate speech and outright violence would sure be nice. The transphobia is so thick there, you could cut it with a knife. Don't bother getting yourself educated on the subject or anything...naw, that would just blunt your argument, right?

Zoey

No matter how thin you slice it, it's still boloney.

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by: atrivialgirl @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 19:54:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I am sure there were other pressing issues

  during the time congress passed the first hate crimes legislation which includes relious people.  I am sure there were other pressing issues when religious folks were fighting for non-discrimination policies in the work place as well.

 My my how things change when you have federal protections that others don't have and need ASAP.

 TVC Executive Director Andrea Lafferty should be ashamed and embarrassed.

 I hope Rep. Andrews responds to the TVC in the same manner.

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 23:28:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Them's fightin' words

You know, there was a time not so long ago when hate speech like that would have formed a trauma trigger for me. But I persevered, got past the worst of it, and went on to a much better life. Now the experience of confronting such hate has toughened me and made me all the more determined to keep fighting for my rights. The memory of bad times is still pretty raw and keeps me aware that many people would be directly traumatized by this kind of crap.

Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

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by: Hypatia @ Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 23:50:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

she better stop,

cuz she's makin the baby jesus cry.  

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 00:41:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]