Please Help Equal Rights Colorado

Listened to the audio .. talk about hateful and afraid!

The degree of stereotyping and fearmongering here is truly difficult to overstate.

And among others we have to thank our traditional media for working parents into a state of abject terror and thus creating an environment in which this shameless pandering works.  

How many "Predator Raw" episodes have to be played on MSNBC before the media acknowledges loud and clear that the typical child predator is a trusted family member?

Plus, I love it -- how inconvenienced this "mom" is about "having" to accompany her child to a public bathroom.  Wouldn't every conscientious parent do that anyway?

Right wingers often use arguments that show they want the rest of society to guard their children on their behalf -- even to the point of excusing complete abdication of normal parental responsibility.

Of course, boys going to mens restrooms are never mentioned here -- I wonder why?

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by: Firefly @ Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 16:08:50 PM CDT

I CAN'T call, but here is my recommendation.

Please forward this on to Jeremy Hooper at GoodAsYOu (if he doesn't already have it.)  This is his forte and I am sure he can respond to every point.

"If the time isn't ripe, we have to ripen the time."
DOROTHY HEIGHT

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by: Orion45 @ Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 16:10:02 PM CDT

from what I understand

and correct me if I'm wrong, but nothing is really keeping the sexes segregated in opposite bathrooms other than mutual agreement.  There is no barrier, no checkpoint, nothing that stops any man who feels like going into the ladies room.

So if perverts wanted to wait in the ladies room to rape women, little girls, and prada bags ---they could do that right now.  The fact that it's not happening much at all (if it is even happening at all) suggests that whoever is in the bathroom is there to do their business and that's it.

Nothing in any of the legislation I've seen says that part of equality in public accomodations also makes rape and sexual assault laws null and void.  Does anyone honestly believe that a court would take a defense of this nature seriously?  "You're honor, it is my right to use the bathroom, which clearly means I get to rape whoever's in there with me!"

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by: PunkZanyJ @ Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 22:57:48 PM CDT

The only documented episode I know of

of a pervert trying to get sex in a bathroom was a male Republican Senator in a men's room...

I'm just sayin...

"All ages can testifie enough howe profitable that fable of Christe hath ben to us and our companie." Pope Leo X

1475-1521

Modern Translation "It has served us well, this myth of Christ."

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by: Snooky Ookums @ Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:43:12 AM CDT

"Focus on the Family is Waging a Fear Campaign"

And why shouldn't they?

They know Barney Frank is on their side.

Kat

>^..^<

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by: KatRose @ Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:37:59 PM CDT

Congressman Frank made a principled and a very public stand

against discrimination based upon gender identity and expression. We all grow, Kat. We all learn.

14 years ago I was married, Liberal but with a small "l" and most certainly NOT in favour of trans rights or even a fan of pride parades.

I changed, I grew, I learned.

So has the Honourable Barney Frank.
So have ever so many politicians, the most dramatic change being in the Lord Mayor of London...

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:32:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The fight against the transgender merry go round, go round, go round...

   go round, where anyone can get on and off at will.

   I am opposed of trans folks who practice daily life as males, retain male priveledge, male pay scale, retain their male names and refuse to adhere to HRT (hormone replacement treatment) and any form of transitioning, having legal status to use the women's restroom. 

   We must keep out part time cross dresser's, who live a males, out of the women's restroom.

   Not for any reason and not for any particular reason, other than the emotional comfort and stability of preteen and teen age girls, for their peace and tranqulilty.

   And be damned anyone who wishes to deprive me of my view points.

    There is plenty of leeway across the nation for those who need to transition to female, to bring mind and body as one gender, male to female to use the women's restroom, as hundreds of thousands of transsexuals have proved in the past 40 years alone. What else needs to be proven? What else needs be? Nothing. 

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:56:58 AM CDT

Sigh

PhyllisMs.

Keeping out people who don't fit your binary gender views will still leave lots of people vulnerable that are vulnerable right now. It won't change the actual incidents of assaults. People have been assaulted in toilets before without transgender antidiscrimination provisions as you well know cause I pointed that out to you before.

Why don't you pause a moment in your constant crusade to discriminate against those who don't fit into your gender binary views to consider the needs of others for a change?

How about the masculine women thrown out of womens toilets? The effeminate boys who are also vulnerable? How abaout a genderqueer person? How about those people who just don't agree with your binary paradigm? How about those transkids too young to transition to the degree you constantly demand?

You constantly call for preserving an unsafe system that results in real harm and your only justification is peoples fears of imaginary harm and the distress that comes from those fears? Now I don't dispute that

the emotional comfort and stability of preteen and teen age girls...
their peace and tranqulilty

is important, but then so is that of transgendered children born as boys or girls who most certainly won't be finished transition when they are preteen or teen.

So where's your care for their emotional comfort and stability peace and tranqulilty huh?

We had to make people learn to deal with their discomforts when we let girls into the same schools as boys, women into the same universities and businesses as men, Blacks and Aborigines into the same toilets, pubs and public swimming pools as whites. The precedant is right there. Discomfort, especially one based on false beliefs of risk, is not sufficient an excuse for denying people equality safety or fairness.

So why don't you stop your ignorant crusade for a moment and actually try and think of some way to make people genuinly safer? Girls, boys, transgendered preteens and teens and everyone else too. They all deserve equal rights, equal access to public facilities and equal comfort and safety.

So how about you consider what possible ways there may be to accomplish that rather than ensuring that a dangerous, unsafe system where people are currently at risk remains?

What about the transgender preteens and teens then?
What about the effeminate boys who will never feel safe in a public toilet either?
What about the masculine women thrown out of toilets?
The Androgynous and the Genderqueers?
And what about those both male and female who get assaulted in these facilities already?

Those people can't feel comfortable, peaceful, safe or tranquil when they use those facilities can they! Why should they be made to stay at risk and/or made to suffer emotionally so they don't cause others the distress of treating them as equals?

Why don't you try and find a real answer to the problem?

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by: battybattybats @ Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:13:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Because people like you who are calling...

   me ignorant, are not trying to discuss, it's just throwing stones. You started out good, until you attacked me personally, in your oh so ignorant ways Bats.

   Sorry, you started the name calling first. But I will respond to your points, since I was a transsexual youth myself.  

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:29:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No

I did not call you ignorant.

Lets look at exactly what I said again shall we?

So why don't you stop your ignorant crusade for a moment

It's your crusade I called ignorant, not you. And ignorance is a state of not knowing something. All humans are ignorant about the vast majority of things, we all know less than we do not know. A person without ignorance would know everything, and being omniscient would therefore be a god.

Saying you are not a god is not name-calling.

Saying that your crusade ignores important data, which is what I actually said with my words

your ignorant crusade

, is not name calling either.

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by: battybattybats @ Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:59:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

So...?

I will respond to your points, since I was a transsexual youth myself.  

And so...?
I'm very much awaiting your response to this point.
After all trans youth has become a more visible issue with hormone blockers being prescribed by some, conversion therapy by others and with schools around the world trying to deal with the subject.

Single-user unisex disabled access facilities is one solution to the problem but how do you propose to factor that into your own crusade?

Afetr all Trans teens will not have had the genital surgery you have claimed as the base requirement in the past.

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by: battybattybats @ Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 21:32:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I never said this...

will not have had the genital surgery you have claimed as the base requirement in the past.

  My base requirement that I have said previously and think is a stop gate to intrusion of the restroom by men, who claim anywhere from 1% to 90% transgender,  for the comfort and emotional well being of young girls was and always has been:

1. Hormone ReplacementTreatment

2.Be under the care of a gender thearapist

3. Living full time as female for Real Life Experience

I'm calling you on it. Show me where I said genital surgery as included in my requirements for access to the womens restroom for transgender claimers.  

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 22:24:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ah but what you don't get

is that I can easilly and comfortably admit when I'm in error.

I thought you were fully supportive of Persiphone's 'people with penises do not belong in women's spaces' mantra. However as you say you don't agree with her that far I can say that is fair enough, I admit my mistake and i retract that claim and am sorry if I offended you by misstating and missunderstanding your views.

Now if we consider your views as stated above:

1. HRT rules out all trans-children. H blockers are not HRT meaning all (presumably in the early teens or even later) must use the restroom of their birth sex?

2. by sticking with a bi-gender specific multiple user faculity structure you are leaving all the rest at risk. The Elderly, the disabled when the few disabled facilities are in use, cis children and effeminate and openly gay males... and lets not forget women and girls assaulted by predators in womens toilets as it does happen and without any trans excuses.. basicly all the people of all ages and types that are clearly vulnerable in those facilities right now.

Now I wouldn't be surprised if you meant all h treatment options or change HRT to just H treatment including blockers but if so what about children so young that wouldn't be appropriate either? Should point 1 be age specific perhaps? If not then what about those trans children and trans teens too young for HRT including the ones already on H blockers? Surely someone living full time and with male (or female after all, these arguments work both ways) puberty delayed shouldn't be using a male toilet in school?

But the trouble is that point 2 remains and if it is fixed by the single-user unisex changes I advocate the 1st issue is unneccessary and pointless and everyone at risk benefits. It seems the best long-term solution to meet everyone's needs.

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by: battybattybats @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 21:12:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I don't respond at your command...

   I do things, my way.  I have always done things "my way", so get use to it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 14:06:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Whish is why I, as a Lesbian activist

support what has become the "battle of the bathroom," if you will.

I am appalled at the horriffic treatment of butch Lesbians on far too many occasions

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:35:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree with you on that, there have been mistakes...

   and they should file a large dollar suit, to keep down over zealous gay and lesbian bashing, in defense of the restroom, which is what it is and I don't agree with that either. These are just out to bash LGBT peoples and that's all.

I'd rather be a lion for one day, than a sheep for my entire life.

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by: PhyllisMs @ Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 22:37:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]