TX: gay bar owner bans trans customers on Tuesdays

Just stupid bigotry

We battled similar fights with bars 30 years ago, when lesbians were being denied entry in a popular men's dance bar. We just boycotted the bar, and put it out of business.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 13:20:20 PM CDT

Um

If a drag queen misbehaves one week and then the next comes back in a different outfit I wouldn't be able to recognize them

Cuz, like, it's not like bars check ID or anything? :|

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by: mcc @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 13:27:41 PM CDT

The IDs are all fake

and you know all those drag queens look alike, anyway.

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by: Jami @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 14:25:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Trashy Tuesdays

Like I said (Clayton would be me), this isn't exactly the best or busiest bar in the area.  It's a bit off the beaten path, and Tuesday nights probably account for a very, very large chunk of its revenues.

Having been in bar and restaurant management in Texas myself for some years, I can say from experience this sort of thing is toeing the legal line, but it's probably allowable due to strict state identification laws--assuming an entertainer or transgendered individual doesn't look exactly like his or her i.d. photo, they can be denied entrance and/or service at any bar or restaurant that serves alcohol.

"Why Martha!  Your Sunday chapel dress!"

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by: sput @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 13:29:25 PM CDT

The ID argument....

wouldn't apply to many transitioned transgender women -

"That's why starting Tuesday, July 15 Moore and his employees began asking transgender women and draq queens to leave."

Early in my transition, before I could afford to file for a name change, the picture on my ID still looked like  did. Interesting how they won' apply this to transmen & drag kings - sounds like sex discrimination in addition to the gender ID discrim.

Rather than a civil rights complaint - I suggest people in Dallas might want to make a complaint to the state liquor licensing board (or whatever similar agency handles liquor licenses in TX). The owner will move damn quickly if his license is in jeopardy.

Really - if someone is disruptive - ask them to leave - regardless of what communities you think they come from.  

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by: Kathleen @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 13:51:37 PM CDT

First off, drag and T are different critters altogether

Although I'm not sure yet if the error is on the part of the bar owner or the Dallas Voice.

And since they are (I would expect) checking IDs on entry anyway, why not create a "banned" list of individual troublemakers?

In either case, blanket discrimination is never pretty.  

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même merde.

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by: TechBear @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 13:59:20 PM CDT

You said what I was gonna

What do Drag Queens have to do with Transwomen.  

That's like called Homosexual Men the same as Heterosexual Men.  It's stupid because one is nothing like the other.

Ban the troublemakers.

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

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by: becca @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 14:29:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Now you can't have a broad sweeping definition of transgenders then dis drag queens

I've read transgenders here including masculine appearing lesbians effeminate gay men, drag queens and drag kings, many of whom are perfectly happy with their gender, and would never consider sexual reassignment surgery or hormone treatments.
Drag Queens face sh*t from the three piece suit queers who are embarrassed when they show up at Pride. Drag Queens face sh*t from cruisey leather bars because they want to sell an UBER MALE persona. Now transgenders want to dismiss comical names Drag Queens use as performers.

Here's a little History, Stonewall which launched our movement was primarily Drag Queens and street dykes who couldn't "pass" if their lives depended on it. NO 3 piece suit queers or transgender studies professors were present.
Many of my best friends performed in drag, whether kings or queens. I also lost many drag queen friends to AIDS, and I miss them daily.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 18:39:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

DIsmiss comical drag queen names?

I'm kinda new here, but what's this about transgender people wanting to dismiss drag queen's comical names?  I've not heard of this and find it an odd thing to say the least.  Can you point me to somewhere to learn more or explain what this is about?

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by: catspaw @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 20:20:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

About a week ago a transgender treatise here, discussed transgenders selecting new names

It pointedly mentioned not picking names like a drag queen

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 20:57:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I looked back over posts but couldn't find the one mentioning names transgenders are counseled to pick

I think Autumn wrote this thread.
anyway names like Virginia Ham or Sofonda Peters, aren't recommended.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 23:38:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

my understanding

My understanding it's spectrum of Transgenderism.  I would never identify as a Transgender myself, but one of my hero's the wonderful Miss Tracie Obrien in San Diego, has always believed that the Sisters and other drag queens are very much a part of the transgender community because we are gender nonconformist.

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by: SisterIona @ Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 16:30:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

well

Drag queens do tend to be a little... over the top.  

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by: kcflood @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 18:46:27 PM CDT

abso-F*CKIN-lutely

and there are times that is EXACTLY what is needed

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 18:59:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Of course they are

I dare say that being over the top is one of key things that make drag distinct from other forms of cross-dressing.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même merde.

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by: TechBear @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 21:25:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Neither here not there but...

From the little I have heard about the bar in question the first thing that popped into my head was a line from (appropriately enough) Victor/Victoria:

"Being thrown out of this place is significantly better than being thrown out of a leper colony".

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 19:29:58 PM CDT

"How do I separate one drag queen that is being bad from others?"

Or for that matter, from a gay male patron who might steal, act out of order, &c.?  Are all lesbians and bi's completely honest?

If the dishonest DQ comes back the following week in male attire, will he be less likely to steal, then?  

Just askin'...

Hate stops a beating heart.

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by: KarenS @ Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 22:30:02 PM CDT

Kudos

To peteypornpig for standing up for the drag queens.

They are, indeed, T. 

As for the name issue, it was a link, iirc, to a site where such advice is given specifically to *transsexuals*, some of whom do indeed perform (and, in some locales, get the same sort of treatment from the FI's -- female impersonators -- that they get from the TS gals here).

 I believe that link is this one.

  

http://www.dyssonance.com  Breaking all the rules...

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by: dyssonance @ Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 04:23:04 AM CDT

Trannies, Drag Queens, and Girls, Oh, My!

Looks like they are banning females too.  At least, that seems to be what the employee told Tramp when he ejected her.  And I quote:

"I was like, 'What do you mean? What are you saying?'" Tramp said. "And he goes, 'David says he doesn't want this' - making a hand gesture at us - 'in this bar, trannies, drag queens or girls."

The article mentions gender discrimination too.  There is reportedly going to be a protest tonight.  Maybe I'll go.

The Dallas Voice has a poll in which about 40% of the gay community aparently thinks it is OK to bar the transgendered.  Here is my comment posted there:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
In fact, Dallas has an ordinance prohibiting discrimination against the transgendered in public accomodations. Plus, the article makes it clear that all women are allegedly being barred, which is impermissible gender discrimination. This would be a no brainer is he were barring all blacks because a few blacks were acting up. The prejudice against the transgendered in the gay community is appalling. I am embarrassed for you, that so many think it is OK to bar the transgendered. And the pretense of keeping transgendedred out on the basis the appearance does not match the photo ID will not work. Some DQs will go in in male mode, change in the bathroom, get thrown out, sue, and win. You go girls!

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by: Glinda @ Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:27:53 AM CDT

My reply from the Denver Wrangler Story... It think it applies here just change the name of the bar

It's ok for womyn to need a safe place with no males, but it's not ok for males to have a sexual charged place with no females?  Do womyn really want to be in place where it's all about the quest for cock or is it a poltical statement?
No discrimnation is not right, but neither is disrespect.  Yes I would be offended if I went to the Wrangler and they turned me away as a Sister.  Because as a Sister I've been very active in the West Coast Leather Community, however I could understand them not wanting me there.  At Easter this year on my way from our 29th Anniversay at Delores Park I stopped in a bar to use the restroom.  Their restroom also doubbled as a dark room and as I shouted to my Sister to hold my skirt while I used the potty it cleared the room.  I kinda chuckled but I knew the reason why, most gay men don't find feminie engery all that sexual.  Knowing this I normally stay away from back rooms as a Nun because that will only cause ill will in the community if I force myself into situation.

Now I would try to work with Wrangler to change it's policy.  But forcing them to make the change will only hurt the situation they, have to be willing to do it on their terms.  Yes they will have to abide by the law but they have to be willing to change or it will further cause strife to the community.  Love them, respect them. educate them.  Don't Punish them.  

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by: SisterIona @ Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 16:34:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A soon to be empty bar..........

I'm wondering what the bar will do when he finds others of his clientèle misbehaving now that they've weeded out the drag queens?  

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by: goddesspdx @ Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 14:13:04 PM CDT

they're about to get a lesson in economics

when they realize how many of their male customers follow the drag queens wherever else they go on Tuesday nights.

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by: sabrinaqedesha @ Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 16:12:13 PM CDT

another basic lesson in public relations for businesses

a happy customer tells 3 people
an unhappy customer tells 10 people

So even just for good public relations this bar is cutting it's own throat. Not to mention dozens of other clubs are just waiting in the wings, to snatch up the customers you lost.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 17:26:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]