Breaking: Shooting in Tennessee -- Knoxville church had just put up gay-affirming sign

I just saw a video

of the church sign.  The moment I read Unitarian Universalist it hit me why it happened. This is another sad event in the United States.

Pam,
J'aime ma Peau

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by: Blonde Pam @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:52:07 AM CDT

Matt Drudge- sick & misleading

Yours was my first reaction as well, but on my local news we only got a feed that reiterates this article (for the first 24 hours):

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2...

As of Monday 8pm est, this and a Breitbart article that does not mention the liberal bias angle, are the only mentions of this incident on Drudge, relegated to a side column. Check out the comments on this link, they will drive you insane.

Call me paranoid but I believe this delay of the facts was/is intentional. Now that we know more, isn't it highly suspicious that this link was the first angle on the story that was repeated everywhere in the first wave of coverage?

It has to be an intentional move on the part of Drudge at least, at this late hour, to make sure the first pre-conceived notions spin in this direction, and any accusation of this being a right-wing inspired crime can then be discounted in the minds of his readers. The facts about motive have been available since the early hours this morning. But this link above is the story his readers will remember first and hold on to, and that all the damning evidence to follow will have to try and refute. It makes me ill.  

____________________

Donate to Carmen's Place

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by: jackalope @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 19:28:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

MSNBC

story here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25...

Vague.

"It goes on one at a time, it starts when you care to act, it starts when you do it again after they said no, it starts when you say We and know who you mean, and each day you mean one more."

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by: Louise @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:02:38 AM CDT

I have this acquaintance

I worked in a nightclub as the cleaning lady for some months this past year.  The general manager and I have remained nodding acquaintances sometimes to my chagrin. (it's a small town) This woman is a 50ish Harley riding, white supremacist from New Orleans.  I have often heard her loudly exclaim how she is "just not ready" to vote for a black president.  Her concerns appear to have something to do with Jesse Jackson and Don King for some unfathomable reason that I have just not invested time in finding out about.  

In my own proselytizing effort I seized what appeared to be a teachable moment to describe my deep reaction to Obama's Germany speech.  I told her I believed it was a speech that all future speeches would be measured by.  Her reaction was that she just didn't understand why "certain elements" and by this she meant skinheads and their ilk - were not stirring up more trouble across the nation.  She couldn't understand why there hadn't been more violence like this shooting describes.

She paints a chilling portrait of her view of the underside of America's poverty nation.

History never actually repeats itself -but it rhymes, (Twain)

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by: cybelline1 @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:32:17 AM CDT

I heard About the Sign

last night on the 11:00 news but it was a Canadian network (CTV) that reported it, mentioned the church was gay affirming, and suggested this might be a reason for the shooting. Though CNN had coverage of the shooting during the day, I had not heard this from them.
My thoughts and prayers go to the church, it's members, their families, and friends.

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by: Fiona @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:45:36 AM CDT

ABC news

Good Morning America reports "there is speculation that this might, might be a hate crime as this Church is very open to gays and lesbians."

You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think.  

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by: Dianne @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:47:38 AM CDT

The shooter apparently left a manifesto

According to the Knoxville News Sentinel (Knoxnews.com). They're not releasing the contents right now. It will be interesting to see what it contains.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2...

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by: rptrcub @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:02:56 AM CDT

Re: I don't want to imply

I'm a member of the church, and Taylor is a dear friend. She is MTF transgender, and will be starting the hormone treatments once she turns 18. She is now 16.  

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by: bekitty @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:37:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

My appologies; the press said "son".

Sixteen is so young to lose her dad.

Please give Taylor and her family my condolences.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 14:43:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I don't want to imply anything

but at the Knoxville News Sentinel site, there is also a video of McKendry's foster son speaking about his dad. The child is clearly in shock, but I got the distinct impression that the young man is gay. Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the rest of what we are talking about in this thread--I am just pointing it out because it seems to me like another tie to the LGBT community. He also said that his dad was killed stepping in between the shooter and a small child--which apparently he heard second hand (thank God, he did not see his dad get killed), but it does make sense, considering how close the shooter was to the children.

[Sensitive reader alert]
I saw this story yesterday, and although I usually jump right in to post about things to do with religion (other that the usual fundy headaches), I just could not post about this; I was too upset. The News Sentinel story confirms that besides this poor boy losing his dad, the shooter initially tried to enter through a door that would have brought him right through the children; the music director of the church told the Sentinel that he also stood not three feet away from the children as he was shooting and one little girl was completely covered in blood. That was just too much for me as a mother to read; I am actually still up because I could not sleep last night. It was too disturbing.

Murdering adults is bad enough, but how could this monster do this to those children?  

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:23:27 AM CDT

that video made me cry

I would guess he is gay and for that poor kid, who likely had gotten rejected by his 'parents' to now lose that great man is all but unbearable.

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by: dsc999 @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:38:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

made me cry, too.

I suspect that as more witnesses talk to the press, we are going to do a lot of crying over the next few days.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 14:46:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yeah I guess so

I guess I should have used she instead of he.  I just feel so bad for this poor girl.

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by: dsc999 @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 14:50:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Press conference notes from KnoxViews

http://www.knoxviews.com/node/...

"Stated he was targeting liberals in general, and gays."

"Appears he chose this church intentionally."

"Investigating as a hate crime. FBI involved. "

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by: jmcnair @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 09:25:54 AM CDT

'blaming the victim' meme begins

Over at Pandagon, the thread contains interesting observations and reactions that are understandable, but perilously come close to blaming the church for the incident because it publicized its LGBT tolerance in a Red part of the country.

My response:

Any attempt to say that it was a misguided idea to put the sign out is making the case for the closet's continued existence. This was a house of worship; withholding a public statement for the sake of the comfort of homophobes, bigots and crazies is counter to everything "outreach" stands for.

Four little innocent black girls died in a church bombing in Birmingham during the civil rights movement because the people there were fighting for their civil rights. Should blacks have kept children away, or stop their activism because of the fear of Bull Connor and his cretins?

This incident in Tennessee is a reminder that homophobia and political dissent can manifest itself in extreme violence. Instead of hiding, more people need to come out. There are precious few willing to put their lives on the line passively and actively as they did back in the day. That's why our first reaction is to make the victim the instigator -- we don't want to think about how untethered acts can come from allowing bigotry, legal and social, to hold sway in this country.

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:16:41 AM CDT

Ugh

I'm waiting for ace Newsweek reporter Ramin Setoodeh to do an in-depth story on the problem of UUs flaunting their liberalism and making other people uncomfortable.

"Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain" -- Iowa state motto

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by: Sportin' Life @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:29:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's part of the prophetic mission of the church to welcome ALL

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by: NancyP @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:50:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well said.

If anything, crimes such as this only underscore the need to push for the wider acceptance of all, not just LGBT's. Is stuff like this going to stop happening if we scuttle back under our rocks and cower in silence? No, that would only further empower people like Mr. Adkisson to commit acts like this. What will put an end to this is making it known that there are people in this world who don't necessarily adhere to what may be considered "normal", and that we still wake up in the morning, eat breakfast, and go about our lives, the same as anyone else. Fear breeds hate. Ergo, an absence of fear should breed an absence of hate.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. ~ Isaac Asimov

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by: Baldran @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 17:35:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Right wing terrorism

"Lack of being able to obtain job, frustration, stated hatred for the liberal movement."

"Had food stamps reduced or eliminated according to recent letter from state, may have been upset about that as well."

"Upset that liberals were getting jobs he couldn't get. Being excluded because of age."

"Shotgun purchased approx. one month ago. 12 gauge semi-automatic. Not saying where it was purchased."

"Recovered handgun from suspect's house, .38 Rossi."

"Suspect says he has no next of kin and no family."

To summarize (thanks to the link from KnoxViews):  This asshole is a gun toting lunatic that hates liberals even though he applied for Food Stamps, believes that he should be given special consideration for employment because of his age, and hasn't bothered raising a family of his own so he terrorizes a church full of families to kill them and make his conservative viewpoint known.

Just what we need in the heartland, eh?  Isn't this exactly the reason we are trying to stop the terrorists over there - so we don't have to fight them here?  

The mini Michael Savage/Rush Limbaughs of the right wing religionist radical sect are doing the work of Al Queada.

John McCain should be very proud today.  These Adkisson-types are the result of stoking the fires of hatred and divisiveness and fear.  Good job!!

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by: Patrick @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:19:52 AM CDT

Age discrimination is a genuine problem...

...but the people working against age discrimination tend to be the liberals and progressives.

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by: M @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:32:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Age discrimination would be less of a factor if there was an universal health plan

Why would a business hesitate to take on a 58 year old? Insurance issues, if the business provides any insurance for its employees. Such an employee increases the risk pool relative to a 30 year old, and thus helps increase the overall cost of insurance for that business.

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by: NancyP @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:53:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That, and

it's easier to underpay a 20-something.  But yeah, blaming "liberals" for age discrimination?  That's not the only reason, but I really have to wonder whether this shooter was seriously disturbed in a should-have-been-in-treatment sort of way.

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by: M @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 14:06:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's the problem

He hates liberals, yet he loves food stamps - a program that liberals have allowed to disintigrate under the pressure of conservative boot strap pullers.  

He hates liberals even though they were responsible for advocating for housing and employment protections.

Yeah, anyone that commits an act like this is out of his mind...but anyone that thinks that conservative policies are in their best interest is intentionally stupid - or they are lying about their socio-economic status.  

Why couldn't he have started a new national fad by writing a lovely suicide note and blowing his brains out while watching Fox news?

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by: Patrick @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 14:22:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

When the stage is set.

The hateful intolerance preached by these so-called men of God, Robinson, Hagee and the rest set the stage for ignorant morons to blame gays for their failed lives thus justifying killings like this.

These people are in fact anti-christ and do not serve God in anyway.    I am not the judge and am glad I'm not.

But ....

May they reap in the next life the hate they sow in this one.    

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by: mike mid city @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:35:31 AM CDT

Thanks Democrats, this one's in your honor.

The increase of hate murders is escalating at a frightening pace because Obama and McCain won't stop telling bigots that we're second class citizens who don't deserve the elementary right to be married.

And to be fair, it's not just Obama and McCAin. Some of the blame clearly lies with Congressional Democrats and Republicans who decided that our rights and lives were expendable.  They gutted ENDA and tossed it and the hate crimes bill into the trash and refused to repeal DOMA and DADT.  

The Democrats controlled Congress for the last two two years so most of the blame is theirs. The Republicans were delighted to go along for the ride but they weren't driving the bigot bus that ran over us.

The Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes bill passed both Houses of Congress before Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy and Barney Frank tossed it into the trash. These murders belong to them.  

The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  

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by: donal1944 @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:48:00 AM CDT

NO the "GUILT" belongs to everyone.

of every faith, socio-economics class, political party, career, family type ...just everyone in AMERICA who has been letting it happen.  Just publicize the heck out of it and if and when people see the BIGOTS are the ones spewing division and hate, not love and equality and cohesion.. RIGHTs will be won... as they should be. All this hate a prejudice predates the current congress... by many many years.

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 14:29:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

dumbass fundies...

An hour ago CNN was quoting his neighbor as saying that he had something against religion and implying that this was an act of hate against Christians.

Wonder if they are even thinking about whether there bullshit might CAUSE a hate crime against some non-Christian today by some whack job who missed the later story.
Talk about f8cking irresponsible! WTF is the matter with CNN taking the comment from ONE dumbass neighbor and running with it as "may have been motivated for hatred of religion".

I hope that asshole neighbor who was probably lying her ass off to get on TV pays for it.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 11:29:43 AM CDT

A tragic day for us UUs

As a member of the Universalist Unitarian church, and a queer woman who transitioned, this is heartbreaking.
UU churches have long been strong advocates for a social change and tolerance in this country.  

I was born into a Catholic family, but I broke with the church when I was 13.  

But UUs churches have offered me, throughout my life as a person who struggled with both my gender identity and as a queer person in general, a place where I need not feel ashamed for who I was.  

While other churches taught messages of shame or hate, the UU church said "you should not be ashamed of who you are".  

It is a tragic day in America, when one of the churches that has consistently preached a message of understanding and hope is the victim of violence and hate for its celebration of human diversity.  

The very fact that the MSM is white washing the nature of this incident is even more tragic.  

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by: tfeminist @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:52:07 PM CDT

I agree

I noticed that the majority of the press has made this about killing liberals and only tangentially mentioned the he also was targeting gays.

Our congregation does a lot of joint events with the UU folks, and I have to say the UU members I know are all wonderful people.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 14:53:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Fox News Headline mentions hatred of gays and liberals

Hate Crime Investigation After Cops Say Church Shooting Suspect 'Hated' Gays, Liberals

And from the International Herald Tribune

Suspect Jim Adkisson, 58, who was being held on $1 million (500,000 pounds) bond, had previously worked as a mechanical engineer in several states. He described his violent plans in a four-page letter found at his home, which also explained that his age and "liberals and gays" taking jobs had worked against him.

http://www.iht.com/articles/re...

If you want allies, you have to be an ally.

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by: dale @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:58:36 PM CDT

TVUUC known as welcoming

Pam, thank you for this.  TVUUC has been a welcoming congregation for a long time, and has a reputation for having gay and transgendered members.  My church has had its rainbow banner stolen twice (in liberal suburban MD) and has given up on that and just installed a quiet black and white sign. We have an openly gay minister and the humanist Jewish congregation who use our building have an openly gay rabbi.

I hope Obama will speak up against this... the UUs and United Church of Christ (which he belongs to) have developed a curriculum together called "Our Whole Lives" which teaches about sexuality and relationships.

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by: Dianne_in_DC @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 15:29:08 PM CDT

A look at those responsible...

quote="cco"]And among the books found in his home? [url=Surprise![/url]
[quote]Inside the house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly.[/quote][/quote]

Look for them ALL To disavow responsibility...

"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

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by: Nathanial @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 17:32:59 PM CDT

They need to be held accountable!

If not by law enforcement, than at least by the media.

IF there is a big enough outcry, stations will drop some of their shows. Probably not the ones that are top-rated, but if we (bloggers) can keep this in the media, force recognition of responsibility by a significant number of people, some of these guys will get fired.

If we make a big and public enough stink, the MSM will have to cover it, or they will look like they are covering it up to protect one of their own.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 23:09:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hate to break it to you...

But this guy IS one of their own. When Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Ann Coulter advocate murdering liberals and no one calls them on it, you can bet their cronies in the MSM will protect this guy at all costs. They'll say he had PTSD, that he was mentally ill, anything but the truth - that this was a man who had problems, wasn't able to get the help he needed from a country whose assistance programs have been slashed by "conservatives," and who had been poisoned by right-wing hate radio to believe that it was liberals and gays who had ruined it for him, and that killing them wasn't murder, it was justice.

They'll protect this guy all the way to a life sentence or death row, then make him out to be a martyr for the cause of white christofascist neo-confederate Amerika.

Sad and ironic that the very people who were in the best position to help him, and would have been willing to help him for nothing in return, were the ones he turned on. Better that gun should have been pointed at Sean Hannity and his buds, or better yet, never have been sold to him by an irresponsible pawn shop owner out to make a living in a devastated economy.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 00:10:24 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

That is why we have to call them out on it publicly

We can't let them bury it.
The more they lie and cover up the more we keep posting the truth. The evidence speaks for itself. No matter what spin is put on it, a psychologically unbalanced man acted on what he was told to be the "truth" by conservative hate mongers.

If his lawyer is smart, he will bring that out in court. This man likely would have snapped in some way eventually, but he would not have gone and murdered people at a UU congregation if he had not kept hearing over and over the "you are the victim of the liberals and gays" BS. Michael Savage, et. al. are just as much accomplices in this as if they had told him these things in person.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:02:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well, have fun listening to the spin

Charles Manson was convicted because his followers had blamed him for convincing them to murder people. However, Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, Jonah Goldberg, Rush Limbaugh, James Dobson, and Tony Perkins aren't filthy hippie ex-cons who will be nailed by a jury. They own the fucking media. They won't be blamed. $10 says Bill O'Reilly's show will either not mention this guy at all, or he'll spin it to be a "poor vet had PTSD and his wife left him at the urging of those liberals and since the liberals have slashed VA programs this guy WAS lashing out at the right people." He  will not apologize for saying that liberals need to be murdered or supporting those who agree with him. He certainly will not have a startling revelation that hate is hate and murder of people you dislike shouldn't be encouraged.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 08:51:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

That is why it is up to us

Bloggers, who are not beholden to the MSM, to keep this in the public eye.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 01:21:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]