Freepers on TN church shooting - more guns needed in church

A few things

1. Somehow I don't see the Unitarians being all that big about bringing guns to church in the first place, even if there was such a law.

2. Who the hell would bring a gun to church in the first place? I don't recall Jesus being that hip on violence to start with.

3. I wonder if that last commenter on the Freeper page would be willing to show the courage McKendry did, or just hide under the pew and use all his concentration to not pee his pants.

4. How long do you think it'll be before we see the equivilent to 'She Said Yes: The Unlikely Martyrdom of Cassie Bernall' in regards to McKendry?

'Be yourself, no matter what they say,' -- Sting, 'Englishman in New York'

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by: Shannon Spencer Fox @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 11:42:35 AM CDT

Jesus loves guns

Ask a Freeper:
"I bring not peace but the SigSauer"

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:41:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A church without guns

is hardly a safe church to worship in. sigh Just in case a "crazed gunman" walks in. Soemhow I get the feeling that to "concealed carry" a gun into a church is to become the "crazed gunman."

I hurt for the families of the two dead and for that congregation of people who had this occur while they were at their service. But, i hardly think that the total proliferation of armed civilians is an answer to such acts of violence and hatred.

I am curious about one thing, however, why are "mainline" religious right congregations and other "conservative" locations never targeted for these attack and kill operations by liberal and LTBG folks? Is it simply that we are not "crazy?"

 

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by: Nichole @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 11:48:32 AM CDT

It ss precisely because we are not crazy

which is why we were removed from the DSM.

Delusional Disorders do remain in the DSM, so the same cannot be said for the Radical Right.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:44:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

oh, it happens

I think people are forgetting the Colorado Springs church shootings just a few months ago.  On BTB there's one of a fellow who went on a shooting spree in a Southern Baptist church in Texas on a day themed on converting Jews to SBism- because he didn't think Jews should be allowed to join.

Basically, the story is that there's no such thing as Left wing terrorism in the US.  It's all Right wing nutcases feeling their nasty and mean little world fading away without an adequate number of corpses being generated in the process.

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by: amidthefallingsnow @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 16:05:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Colorado Springs

AP mentioned that in their coverage. I had not heard about the shooting in Texas.

We had a man killed in a church here in Moscow (Idaho, not Russia) a couple of years ago, but it was just a fluke that he happened to be in a church--he was the Sexton and witnessed a shooting. He ran in to call 911 and the gunman followed him in and killed him.  My ex-husband was friends with the church sexton who was killed and worked with the shooter (he was his boss); so the poor guy knew both the shooter and the victim. My ex was an absolute basket case for weeks.

I think maybe people forget about these things because they have to--it is too hard for them to think about.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 16:31:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

seriously

I know of very few churches, if any, that are officially gun free.

What the hell kind of churches do these freaks go to?  I'd like a list of every church that has an official "bring your gun to church" policy.  Honestly, even in crazy-assed states that have laws permitting carrying concealed weapons in church, I'd find it odd that any congregation or legitimate ordained member of the clergy would encourage bringing weapons into their church.  Even odder is that these freaks seem to expect crazed gunman to come attack people at a church.

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by: ol cranky @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 16:34:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

One faux-insider who escaped....

One reason among a host of excellent reasons I am divorced is that my ex insisted on trooping our family through a slew of virulently fundamental congregations all in an effort to convince me that my queerness was sin and that Jesus' blood would be my slavation (misspelling intended).  Conversations among the sheep in the Evangelical Free Churches as well as in the Assemblies of God frequently encompassed the belief that liberals plan to round up all the christians and put them into concentration camps.  This is part of their rapture philosophy.  They believe they are living in the end times now and they frequently espouse carrying arms in churches because they fear the liberal onslaught.

Now correct me if I am wrong but haven't most church shootings so far have been by marginalized persons from the community who believe they have been ostracised or outcast for some reason?  Or by people with specific grudges.  

History never actually repeats itself -but it rhymes, (Twain)

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by: cybelline1 @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 16:55:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If the R's are really so convinced..

that gun carrying in all locations is the answer to stop crime & violence; then they'll let people carry at their national convention.

I seriously doubt anyone will get past the screeners if they try and live their values at the RNCC.

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by: Kathleen @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 11:55:24 AM CDT

Uninformed Comments

Yes, I'm a Liberal.
Yes, I'm Gay.
NO, I am not anti-gun.

I am a Gun Owner, a Pistol Competitor, a CCW holder and a Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Self-Defense/Use of Force Instructor so I do have the knowledge to comment intelligently on this.

I would just like to say that sick twisted psychopaths like Mr. Adkisson will never be deterred by Gun Control Laws.  Gun Control Laws are only effective at disarming the law abiding and empowering the law breakers.

A gun is a tool.  It has no magical powers (a-la Hollywood) and cannot be fired unless the trigger is pulled.  A human being must pull the trigger.  If guns where made extinct it would do nothing to stop an event like this from occurring because sick people like Mr. Adkisson would find another means of taking human life.  The possibilities are endless when a human mind gets to work at creating a tool to perform a task.  

A person intent on committing an atrocity such as this will never be hindered by the Law or available weapons. Therefore, isn't it better to have a well trained person or persons available with equal or superior force to quickly end an attack and save human lives?  I think it is.

I would recommend reading On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by Lt. Col. Grossman (Ret.) http://www.killology.com/sheep...  (There's a comment about Church in this article too)

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

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by: becca @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:16:35 PM CDT

I firmly believe

That the only reason we did not have any worse problems living out in redneck territory is that everyone knew we have guns, and know how to use them.

The police chief also strongly suggested to my ex that since she drove across state alone to the Seattle VA at least once a month that she should get a concealed weapons permit, which she did.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:33:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Happy to hear a pro-gay, pro-gun individual

I do believe in sensible regulation of guns. Criminal background checks, and the like. That might have helped keep it out of Adkisson's hands.

That said, I think law-abiding citizens who use guns responsibly for their self-defense and defense of others should not be feared. Though I do confess to enjoying a good "gun-nut" joke with my liberal friends.

However, I wouldn't be so bold to say that people with or without guns will kill just the same. Guns may not be "magical instruments", but they give a killing power that far exceeds the alternatives if they were banned: knives, axes, any type of blade might be gruesome if the person can get themselves to use it. The thing about guns is that you don't need as much guts - just point, shoot, chaos everywhere.

This does NOT mean I support a total ban on guns. These tools can save lives, and the lives of others. They certainly can make gay-bashers and rapists think twice when they know people are armed.

I only ask that we realistically confront this challenge: keeping guns out of the hands of monsters, (including battering spouses) while making sure law-abiding people can own them and get proper training.

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by: h3986 @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 17:15:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Being Sensible

Thank you.  You wrote, "I only ask that we realistically confront this challenge: keeping guns out of the hands of monsters, (including battering spouses) while making sure law-abiding people can own them and get proper training.|

I completely agree.  Even with all my experience and ratings and certifications and DOJ permit issuing authority I will be the first to say, Hey! What's the big deal about a waiting period.  Anyone that needs a gun RIGHT NOW probably shouldn't have a gun.  That is sensible gun control because it allows the law abiding to own guns freely and keeps them out of the hands of people like Mr. Adkisson.

However, when the misinformed and hysterical that know absolutely nothing about guns create things like "Assault Weapons"  bans for things that aren't Assault Weapons but they are black and look scary.  Yet, far  more deadly weapons are legal because they look like the hunting rifle dear 'ol dad used to own.  That is not sensible and it only keeps guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens but does absolutely NOTHING to prevent the law breaker from obtaining one.

Finally, as an Instructor I am all for training and know how beneficial it is to all levels of experience and knowledge.  I have yet to meet an anti-gun person in person who's mind I haven't change with simple facts and an enjoyable day at the range because KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

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by: becca @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 18:23:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

As for the gay-bashers (and the racists even more so) --

In most of the country, defending oneself with a firearm (or even possessing a firearm) can be near-suicidal for anyone who is visually distinguishable from the hegemonic straight-white-Christian set.  Anywhere that there are a large number of people with guns who will assume that anyone who looks like an Other is the aggressor, anywhere that police and/or a DA's office will take the widest possible reading of "self-defense" when someone they perceive to be like themselves is at stake, more armed people means more excuses for violence against anyone who's an "outsider."

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by: M @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 19:42:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I have to disagree

I am out about my sexuality.
I am out about my being part of the leather community.
I announce it on my car with stickers and such.
I am out to my fellow Instructors.
I am out to the Sheriff's Dept. I volunteer for.
I am out to the Deputies I work along side and who count on me to get their backs when we are on patrol.
In a nutshell.  I'M OUT!  LOL

If I was Donna Reed and the perfect Heterosexual Houseslave, uhm wife, I think I would be equally scared of harm befalling me.

First, law abiding gun owners do not commit crimes.  The psychopaths do.  If law abiding citizens are armed it's not them that I fear, it's the psychos that I fear right now at this moment.
Second, I am not only armed but I am so highly trained in tactics that I am Certified to teach it to others including Law Enforcement. So, even though I am clearly out and clearly "distinguishable from the hegemonic straight-white-Christian set." I possess a quality that screams, If you screw with me you're gonna have a brutal fight on your hands.  You may win, but is it really worth the effort?
Fourth, Law Enforcement Officers love people and want nothing more than to help protect the innocent from the evil.  Why else would they don a uniform and put themselves in harms way to defend total strangers?

Given all that I feel safe as I possibly can in a society where the laws are written to disarm the good and embolden the evil.

If you give knowledge and weapons to the good I would feel safer and the evil would finally know what it's like to live in fear.

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

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by: becca @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 21:18:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It depends on area.

Really, it's a region thing -- some police & sheriff's departments are relatively mellow, some are one step away from being a right-wing paramilitary.  Of course, violent racism is more prevalent among police than violent homophobia -- see, for instance, the NYPD, Orange County sheriff's deputies, etc.  I've taken enough shit from law enforcement to know that the "they love everybody and only want to protect the innocent" is only the case as long as you're someone they'll assume innocent.

As for "law abiding gun owners do not commit crimes" -- well, first of all there's the circularity.  Then there's the whole problem of snap judgments being made by people in accordance with their biases -- and gun ownership doesn't eliminate either conscious or unconscious biases.

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by: M @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:11:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I am a Lesbian

I am an attorney
I represent a foreign banking consortium.

You bet I carry.
I am about the embodiment of every evil other than nation building that Ron Paul and others preached against.

Oh yes, I am an immigrant too...

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 18:34:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Awesome!

If you ever find yourself in SoCal please drop me a line.  It would be my pleasure to take you to the range and teach you self-defense tactics that will have you saying, WOW!  I can do that!

Be Safe!

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

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by: becca @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 21:22:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Skirt Suit by Armani

Shoes by Prada
Weapon by SigSauer...

What the well dressed counsel is wearing this season...

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 21:32:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Major Plus Points

Sig makes very very fine firearms.  Excellent choice.

Me, I'm a total H&K whore, but Sig is still a part of my collection.

Have you seen the new P250?  I got to fire it awhile back when it was still new and still illegal for mere mortals in CA.

WOW!  what a very well engineered, safe, versatile and scary accurate weapon. I hope Law Enforcement picks it up.  It really puts the Glock to shame.

It is a simple, user friendly, diverse, accurate, safe and versatile weapon platform.  Again, if you find yourself in SoCal I can let you shoot this wonderful firearm.  Legally, of course.

Besser ein ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne ende

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by: becca @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 21:44:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I just have the one

p225 that was issued at the time to ICT personnel. I took the courses in New York from a county Sherrif's dept and got my permit to carry concealed. I did that last year after some of the more radical Ron Paul supporters began vocalising unpleasant sentiments about a number of the descriptive modifiers that could be used to describe me...

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:41:49 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I thought churches are supposed to be peaceful.

1. If you bring a gun to church, you might be a redneck coward.

2. Jim Adkisson is one of those bitter people who Barack Obama was talking about.

3. The Westboro Fascist Church would have a field day with this.  As we speak, they are packing their bags and going to Knoxville so that they could spew their ignorance.

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by: Blood From Machines @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:17:40 PM CDT

Comments Mild in comparison

I must say I'm actually sort of surprised - these comments from the Freepers are, in general, much less hateful than what we usually see.  There's a couple of winners in there, but I was (almost) pleasantly surprised.  Almost.

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by: SuburbanHomo @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:28:09 PM CDT

Shoot first

pray for their souls later.

Kill 'em all and let God sort em out.

How antithetical this is to Jesus's words about the wheat and the weeds. They may be Christians (little Christs), but they don't seem to follow the teachings of Jesus.

Alas.

Perhaps I should switch to Jesusianism.

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Claim to fame: Posted first PHB diary to be demoted

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by: cindik @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:06:01 PM CDT

Amazing

It never ceases to amaze me when I read Freeper gun ownership enthusiast comments how they treat the right to own a gun like it was a religious sacrament or something.

I keep expecting one of these days to read about the founding of the "Church of the Holy Magnum".

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by: Jon Michaels @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 14:25:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

First two amendments

1: freedom of speech, press, religion, etc.

2: freedom to bear arms in case you have to shoot someone for saying, printing, believing the wrong things

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Claim to fame: Posted first PHB diary to be demoted

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by: cindik @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 21:31:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Synagogues...

...have had to take precautions against attack for decades, even here in the USA. Mine has 12-inch-thick concrete filled steel bollards across the front entry to mitigate car bombs. We have an electronic security system and CCTV as well.

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by: Holly in Cincinnati @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:08:12 PM CDT

I think that is why this hit so close to home for me

I teach RE for our synagogue. We don't even post on the website where the classes are, or when. You only get that information after your kids are registered.

Its a sad state of affairs, but better safe than sorry.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:23:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I was raised in Granada Hills, California...

...and the home I was raised in is located about a mile-and-a-half south of the North Valley Jewish Community Center, which was the site where anti-semitism was the motive in an August 11th, 1999 shooting at a Jewish day-care center. The shooting victims included three children and two adults.

Even though I was in the Navy and living in San Diego at the time of the shooting, I definitely was emotionally impacted by the shooting.

I don't believe many of us want to see more guns in places of worship for personal protection; and, it's incredibly sad that we have to consider people's physical safety in houses' of worship building design.

My thoughts are definitely with the victims of this latest shooting.

-----
~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau

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by: Autumn Sandeen @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:44:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I was in Canoga Park at the time

I grew up right near you, Autumn, near Roscoe and Winnetka. I was living there when it happened.

I spent more time at the West Valley JCC (where they just a couple of months ago had a Molotov cocktail thrown at the building...) Up hear in Seattle, we are awaiting the retrial of the man that murdered Pam Wechter and injured several others at the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle. They do have good security, but the guy got in by using a teenage girl as a Trojan Horse. In both the NVJCC and Seattle Federation shootings, the killers were lone gunmen as well.

The sad part is the asshole who did the killing in Seattle may walk; despite the strong evidence of premeditation, he has a record of mental illness and a damn good lawyer. Plus, the cops were more interested in making sure that there were no bombs about to go off or other guys working with him, so some of the evidence was tainted by the questioning. (I don't blame the cops. Making sure that nobody else is going to get dead is more urgent than whether you have an air-tight case.)

My thoughts and prayers are with yesterday's victims as well.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 14:19:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's just sad.

They shouldn't need to do something like that.  It's a place where people go to find peace and solace.  We were surprised when we were in Berlin in early 2001.  Even before 9/11 the Jewish Museum was a fortress.  Maybe the authorities remembered Munich all too well.  

My America includes LGBT families.

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by: Mena @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 17:34:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Christian Thugs"

These Christian Thugs should read the Declaration of Independence and see how many Universalists signed the document.

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by: Herb @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 13:22:09 PM CDT

So true

Deists and Unitarians among our founding fathers, the list goes on and on, including Thomas Jefferson himself.

____________________

Donate to Carmen's Place

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by: jackalope @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 17:20:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Church guns

It certainly gives a whole new meaning to the phrase

"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"!

"In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant."  The Colbert Report

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by: Lev Raphael @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 14:44:25 PM CDT

Heinous

No other word fits. My partner who is Christian said many times that I am more Christian than people who identify as such. I am an atheist and my compassion for these victims seems to prove it as opposed to these horrible people from ONN who aren't fit to touch the hem of a 2000 year old mythological garment.  

You say you'll change the constitution, well you know, we all want to change your head.

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by: johnozed @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 15:26:43 PM CDT

"Jesus Loves the Little ARMED Children"

I understand the Christian parent's dillema,

which revolver goes with little Mary's Easter outfit?

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 16:21:26 PM CDT

Uh, Petey?

Ever hear of the Children's Crusade?
There actually is precedent for Christians arming little kids and sending them off on a crusade. Literally.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 16:37:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

But,,Daddy,,I want the AK 47 with the

  Easter Basket full of amunition.

 Next year Mary when you are 6, then you can have the AK-47

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 18:53:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Another Example of Right-Wing Domestic Terrorism

If the shooter had happened to be Muslim, this would be the number-one news story in the country, with regular-programming-stopping, constant coverage.  

But since it was another example of right-wing, white male terrorism, it may be elevated, at best, to a "hate crime."

Sadly, another example to bring up the next time that a Bushie claims that there've been no more instances of terrorism since Dear Leader's heroic reading of "My Pet Goat."  

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by: Diogenes @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 17:30:54 PM CDT

Fundie Freaks

I'm telling you...the Christian Right is America's Taliban.

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by: NuggetTexas @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 18:25:36 PM CDT

Foreshadowing-The People Who Created Adkinsson

We really need to spread this around juxtaposed with the story from Knoxville--these people helped make this incident happen.

Lee Rogers: "[T]he day will come when unpleasant things are going to happen to a bunch of stupid liberals and it's going to be very amusing to watch."

Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus -- living fossils -- so we will never forget what these people stood for."

RedState contributor "Thomas Crown":I repeat: Should the entire American Left fall over dead tomorrow, I would rejoice, and order pizza to celebrate. They are not my countrymen; they are animals who happen to walk upright and make noises that approximate speech. They are below human. I look forward to seeing each and every one in Hell.

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:There were, and are, "two incompatible moral visions for this country. We had to settle it then. We're going to have to settle it now. I hope not with blood, not with guns, but we're going to have to settle it nonetheless. The good news is that I think our side is finally ready to settle it. Roll up its sleeves, take off its jacket, and get a little bloody. Spill a little blood. We'll settle it. And we'll win. And then there's no holding us back.

Ann Coulter:"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too."

Joe M. Richardson, letter to Editor and Publisher:I say start executing the leftists in our country, soon.

Rep. Peter King:And Joe Wilson has no right to complain. And I think people like Tim Russert and the others, who gave this guy such a free ride and all the media, they're the ones to be shot, not Karl Rove.

"Sock" Sokolowski, to Stephanie Miller:As with Cindy Sheehan the best thing that could happen to you would be seeing some WONDERFUL activist sticking an AK-47 up your Glory Holes and sending you into eternity... I would gather my 1st amendment rights permit me to HOPE (!) and PRAY (!) that someone decides you're better off as statistics. Honestly, should I hear of either you leaving this earth prematurely I would initiate a personal celebration that would make Animal House appear to be just another quiet Sunday in church.

Melanie Morgan: "We've got a bull's-eye painted on [Nancy Pelosi's] big, wide laughing eyes."

Kathleen Parker:Here's a note I got recently from a friend and former Delta Force member, who has been observing American politics from the trenches: "These bastards like Clark and Kerry and that incipient ass, Dean, and Gephardt and Kucinich and that absolute mental midget Sharpton, race baiter, should all be lined up and shot."

John Shelley:All verminous, hate-America, liberal-socialist-commie filth should be contained and selectively eliminated.

Paul Cameron:"Unless we get medically lucky, in three or four years, one of the options discussed will be the extermination of homosexuals."

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 20:40:46 PM CDT

People like these

inspired me to keep two swords and a can of mace in my car, and a 12 gauge in the house. Christian thugs bleed just as readily as progressives.

God save ornery old queens! - kevinchi

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by: Keori @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 21:05:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What a nice bunch of people you have listed.

  And if my member serves me right, they all claim to such loving and good christians. Good christians would never say things like that, would they?

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 22:19:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Savage again...

Yet another thing to ad to the list of why he should get fired. Isn't inciting a hate crime also a crime? I think it may actually be federal. Freedom of speech is one thing. Inciting muder is another.

An entire paragraph from the manifesto quoted on the Knoxnews site looked really, really familiar...I think the schmuck may have actually been quoting one of those guys verbatim, but I could not quite place which one of the right-wing hate mongers said it.

Why is the MSM not calling this killer's "heroes" to task?
WHY are they not being held responsible for the direct results of their irresponsible speech? Anybody remember Father Coughlin? Have we learned nothing, or do radio networks just nut give a shit who dies as long as they make money?
Where is the damned accountability here?

Another thing: As people mentioned in the other thread on this, this is exactly why we need the Shepherd Act.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 23:00:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Savage, Hannity & O'Reilley, take a bow...

And among the books found in his home?

Surprise! -- http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2...

Inside the house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly.

"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

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by: Nathanial @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 00:38:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The Radical Right prepared the way for this

How it works was brilliantly exposed by Prosecutor (and USSC Assiociate Justice) Robert H. Jackson:

"...manufactured and delivered obscene..libels which incited the population to accept and assist the progressively more savage operations.."

And of the guilt of the men who inspired Adkinsson I can only again quote Jusitce Jackson:

"It was these men among millions of others, and it was these men leading millions of others who built up [for this purpose, Adkinsson]....They fed his hate and aroused his fears. They put a loaded gun in his eager hands. "

And to paraphrase the Justice, it remained for Adkinsson to pull the trigger and when he did, their own words from the past approved...

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

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by: MauraHennessey @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:23:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Guns in churches seems excessive

throwing stars should do the trick

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 22:52:39 PM CDT

I am friends

 With the Ileto family, the survivors of Joseph Ileto, the only fatality of the Jewish Community Center shooting. BTW, there was only one adult shot, and she was a 65 year old receptionist. The other was 16 year old Mindy, one of the center counselors.

   I live in Studio City, close enough to what happened at the JCC. Synagogues routinely have to have more security. They have more bars, thicker walls and security guards. In fact, Buford O. Furrow, the JCC shooter, initially wanted to shoot up the Simon Weisenthal Center (where I volunteer), but was thwarted by the usual security around there.
 Perhaps instead of carrying guns, there should be CHECKS for weapons. It's so sad, that in this country...we are inured and used to violence breaking out in the most innocuous of circumstances.

 The line "wrong place in the wrong time" when talking about the victims is bullshit.
We can ALWAYS be in the right place at the right time, it's the shooters that have too much opportunity to do their deeds no matter WHAT and WHERE is right for the rest of us.
 Vigilance, weapons checks, and letting it be known there ARE weapons checks should be deterrant enough.

   But, there is no amount of safety measures or preventive actions that can deter the profoundly evil or the stupid.

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by: Regan DuCasse @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 14:57:02 PM CDT