Arrest In Killing Of Angie Zapata

NOT TAKING That Bet.

Either Autumn...Isn't there someone trained in the ACLU to take on these cases??

It's the Hammer of JUSTICE,
It's the Bell of FREEDOM,
It's the Song about LOVE between,
my Brothers and my Sisters
...All over this Land.

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by: Orion45 @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 19:12:36 PM CDT

A sucker bet

is what that is. Since Colorado does not, to my knowledge, have a no panic defense law want to bet that the murderous bastard will get off with some incredibly light sentence if he even gets convicted?  

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by: Natasha Yar-Routh @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 19:41:00 PM CDT

Does Colorado have a hate crimes law?

HappyCat or someone? Do you know if they have one and if so, if it is inclusive?


susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 20:11:10 PM CDT

Oops. Never mind. That was answered in the press conference

Sorry, should have watched that before posting.

The prosecutor said, "Yes, this was a bias motivated crime", so they must have a hate crimes law.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 20:18:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Here...

The HRC lists what is covered under Colorado's Hate Crimes Law.

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~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau

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by: Autumn Sandeen @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 20:19:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks, Autumn

I am going to go take a look at it.

Sorry for having a stupid attack and posting before following the link in your post.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 20:24:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The HRC has a good list of...

...laws relating to LGBT people, listed state by state. I always to to the HRC's website when I want to know what a state's laws are. :)

And... Huh? What stupid attack? You had to guess from the article -- the article didn't say whether Colorado had a hate crime law that included sexual orientation and/or gender identity and expression directly. You asked a really good question, and I listed a link in response. :)

You're fine, I'm fine...we're all super fine.  :)

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~~Autumn~~

As if there were safety in stupidity alone.
--Henry David Thoreau

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by: Autumn Sandeen @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 21:05:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It was not in the story, but the press conference is embedbed

In the page in your first link. The comment about it being a "bias crime" is about halfway through seven minutes of the video of the press conference.

From the comment by the prosecutor, it seems as though this is going to be prosecuted as a hate crime. Any of the lawyers around here know if that makes a difference in fighting a trans panic defense? I mean realistically, that is the only shot this a$$hole has of getting off, so even if it is implicit not explicit,  any good defense lawyer is going to have to try it, unless the guy pleads out.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:19:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Colorado

does have hate crimes for sexual orientation.  We have defined transsexual and gender orientation within the sexual orientation definition.  
The DA is the one to make the decision to charge hate crime.  

Pam,
J'aime ma Peau

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by: Blonde Pam @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 21:43:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

a close friend

 of mine who lives in Denver just told me there was an arrest in this murder case.

  Here's why and how gay or trans panic defenses can easily have a  truck driven through the holes in them.
In the cases of self defense, or fear for one's safety...one doesn't have to flee or cover up the evidence of a crime. Waiting until the point of arrest to say it was self defense does weaken that as motive, and a juror or judge can see that and has the power to determine that.

And certainly robbery isn't part of defense motives, but gay victims often are robbed. Or are outnumbered.
And often too, the perpetrator is ARMED, either with a knife or gun. That pretty much takes the spontaneousness of not suspecting the gay person enough to avoid contact, out of the defense too.

 The other hole, perhaps in this case, was disparity of physicality. The killer was older than Angie, but what about size, weight and physical difference in the ability TO defend himself enough to intimidate the victim without such violence.
Even the deception defense is ludicrous under these circumstances. As if leaving wasn't an option, but murder in this case, as we all know is about punishing the victim even after they are rendered helpless.

    And if we're still unsure of whether or not this case will render a just verdict, means that justice for gay and trans victims is still too weak and inconsistent from state to state.

 When you can't get equal justice for the same crime committed against you, that makes the argument of the same crime being the same for every victim utterly without merit in itself.
 It illustrates that the victim isn't an equal in the eyes of the law and justice.

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by: Regan DuCasse @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 21:51:55 PM CDT

Thoughts on a Death

It started with an e-mail query.  "Do you know anything about this?"  The link was to the Greeley Independent newspaper online edition.  The story was about a young man murdered in his apartment.  I did not know anything about the story or the person who had his head broken in two places.  It was the next e-mail that cleared things up for me.  The reporter had a couple of errors in the story; the name and gender of the victim.  It was Angie Zapata, a woman, who was murdered.  

As I read her name I felt a certain chill and sadness that only happens when I learn of something like this.  I will not speculate why the reporter and editor had the name and gender incorrect from the start and refused to use Angie's correct name even after her mother asked them too.

A young woman's dreams are gone now.  Her family is devastated, their dreams are gone now.  Her mother is inconsolable right now.  A community and city are shocked by this brutal and horrific crime.  Healing of family and community will start sometime, but for now the pain is still too sharp.

The affects of this crime goes well beyond Greeley.  This crime was against a person of minority communities; those in the Latina community would know her.  Those in the Gay Lesbian Bisexual and Transgender (GLBT) community would know her.  She was a transgender woman.   The affects of this murder have travelled around Colorado, around the U.S. and now are worldwide.

She was pretty but different; this is the most probably reason for her murder.   Killed - because of hate.  Of course we will not know until her killer is caught and tried the reason for the hate.  But, from other murders of transgender people there is a common reason.  Hate of who you are.

Aurora is a much larger and more diverse city than Greeley.  That does not protect Aurora from hate crimes any more than it did Greeley last week. Crimes like that care not about the city they happen in or who will be affected.  Only the killer or killers revel in what they have done.

Aurora is home to many wonderfully varied minorities, including people of the GLBT community.   Of the 30,000 or so GLBT citizens living here the death of Angie is a hard reminder of what does happen in crimes of hate.  It is a striking reminder to transgender people that brutal murder is an unwanted part of life.  This type of crime lets everybody know what a crime of hate really is.

Angie was a beautiful young woman who will never live her dreams.  I am asking my fellow citizens of Aurora to do a couple of things with me. Offer a little prayer for a young woman who is no longer able to. And, share carrying her dreams with me.

crossposted from SquareState


Pam,
J'aime ma Peau

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by: Blonde Pam @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 22:48:43 PM CDT

Greely Tribune Online

Has got the gender correct, in all but the first paragraph, which reads, "A Greeley transgender woman was apparently murdered earlier this month because a man she was dating discovered the victim was actually a man." (emphasis mine) I wish they had put quotation marks around the word "man", but in the context of the paragraph, it makes sense that it is phrased that way, even though I do not care for it.

The rest of the article is both fair and respectful. It is the first link in Autumn's post.

[Sensitive reader alert] Their account of the murder is very graphic.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:41:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I know but there is kind of something not being said....

I really hate saying this, but it needs to be said.
There are many young trans women who are not careful about dating guys.  In some ways this is naivete about who they are and how it effects their own safety.  I am not going to say this is her fault, its not.  But I will say she should have been much more careful.  There are trans women who pass, and sometimes are even post-op, who find themselves in dangerous situations because of a lack of caution with regards to who they date and sometimes, openness.  But it is probably most dangerous for the non-op and pre-ops out there.  Passing and assimilation does not necessarily equal safety, especially with regards to dating men.  To often younger trans women forget about this and throw caution to the wind.

The lesbian trans women don't run into this problem so much.  

I date both men and women.  But I do extensive screening of men before even thinking about meeting them.  Dating any guy off the street or in a club is a risky act for me.  In some ways this is overly cautious, but it has not really had any effect on my dating life, as its rather active, and if anything it has been rather positive as a result of this caution.  I am dating a guy right now, who is very understanding and open minded, respects me, is not a chaser, and wonderful by any standard.   There has been younger trans women who have been critical of my stance on both caution and disclosure with men.  At the same time many of these women do often have problems later on because of a lack of caution with regards to who they date and well timed disclosure. The thing is with trans women, dating men and not siding with caution, can be extremely risky, no matter how well you pass.  Its better to screen out guys and be open with who you are early on than be another name on the Day of Remembrance.

As stated, the trans-panic is a groundless defense, and this was a hate-crime and a terrible act of violence.  It is sad to hear there is going to be another name read this year on Day of Remembrance.  This act of violence was depressing and not her fault.  However, there is part of me that thinks this could have been avoided, if she was a bit more cautious and didn't think she could have dated any asshole guy.    

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by: tfeminist @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 23:39:46 PM CDT

Young and naive

I think that this may have been very similar to the Gwen Arujo case; its called being a naive kid.

I think we all start out life wanting to think the best of everyone and someone that young could easily have made an innocent mistake about how he would take it if and when he found out. Maybe she had no intention of having sex with him  and therefore did not think there was any reason to tell him until sex became an issue.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:06:47 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No disrespect intended to the younger readers here

But if you are reading or posting on this blog, the odds are that you are a lot more mature than many people that young.

I have two step-children around the same age as Angie and one a few years older, so as a mother, I look at her as their peer. So from my perspective, this was a child who was murdered, and that makes it even worse.

susanferman.wordpress.com

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by: Susan_F @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:28:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I notice a peculiar thread of commonality in these cases.

Many of these creatures get to trial for these murders and then claim they panicked so much when the gay guy/trans came on to them that they instinctively lashed out repeatedly until such person was dead, then in aforementioned state of panic stole the persons wallet, mobile, car and other possessions.

Now I have seen people in a condition of panic and they tend to have a one track mind. They want to flee whatever is inspiring terror in them. This is why personnel, despite having the correct training will run away blindly when there uniform is on fire.

To equate thought out, coherent action such as this with panic is just stupid.

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by: Carbonchild @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 00:12:54 AM CDT

No bet

He'll make a run at "panic." Obviously he was still panicking while he was out raising hell in her car. Panicking as well when he referred to her in his confession as "it." Just a panic-y guy, I suppose.

Hope he gets to panic in the prison they send him to when Bubba wants to make him Ms. Bubba. Do they have fire-extinguishers for the inmates?  

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by: Nichole @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 03:17:57 AM CDT

NO

Hope he gets to panic in the prison they send him to when Bubba wants to make him Ms. Bubba.

No.

That's the emotion talking. The sense of outrage we all feel.

Rape should not be part of the prison sentence. Those of us who are TS, post-op, and could land up in a male holding facility if we protest an HRC event should never, ever, treat the obscenity of prison rape lightly.

There is no situation so complex it can't get even worse

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by: ZoeB @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:35:15 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

So Right, Zoe

It was and is. You're absolutely right. Solitary confinement isn't the emotion talking. Well, maybe it is. :)

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by: Nichole @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 12:33:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think another issue

Is that we don't teach boys to say "no".  We teach girls to say "no", but we don't teach this to boys.

So girls grow up saying "no" to men they aren't interested in.  They grow up testing out different ways of saying "no" in different situations.  They get to a point where they have a standard way of saying "no" or an assortment they can choose from given the situation.

We teach boys to say "yes" at every opportunity.  We teach them that sex is something they should always want from any woman who will agree to it.  Since women mostly do not approach men, men rarely have to say "no".  When a woman approaches him who he does not find attractive or interesting, he either passively-aggressively dismisses her or he has sex with her anyway and just makes fun of her later.

Through saying "no" and being taught to say "no" women learn the difference between a nuisance and a threat.  Most of the unappealing men who approach women are seen as nuisances, not threats (at least I hope it's like that).  But for straight men, if a gay man, or trans person approaches them they see this as a threat.  It's a threat and in some cases it's also an insult.  They say "no" with their fists because they're ignorant, and they're so caught up in the false sense of being threatened and insulted that saying "no" not only doesn't occur to them, it's seen as "not enough".  I think men are more likely to fight rather than flee the scene.  

By no means am I blaming the victim.  But I agree that if you add this element to a carefree approach to dating, it's going to add up to trouble.  

What I'm saying is that our whole approach to raising boys contributes significantly to this problem.  Those boys who grow up to be men who do these awful things are 100% responsible for their actions.

But we as a society have to look at what might be done to prevent this in the first place.  Only problem is, the boys who need to be taught to say "no" are usually the ones who's family doesn't want to every prepare them for the reality of interacting with gay or trans people.

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by: PunkZanyJ @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:33:29 AM CDT

Excellent point

Boys are also taught to fear any form male-male affection, at least in modern day America. The infamous Superbowl Snickers commercial is a prime example of the way boys are taught to behave when such affection occurs, even accidentally. Even the best of friends will physically attack each other if they get too close. That is the expected response, and it frequently gets played for humor in the mainstream media.

I'm not blaming the victim either. Her killer needs to spend the rest of his life in prison. But we've got to recognize and address the underlying causes of hate crimes if we're going to prevent them in the future.

Tfeminist also makes a good point. Dating is like walking through a snake pit. Most of the snakes are harmless, even docile enough to be handled. Some are agressive but non-venomous. A few are deadly vipers. It's often difficult to tell them apart, so it's best to use caution with all of them until one knows for sure. Of course, this caution isn't just for transpeople, it's for all--male, female, intersex, cis, trans, gay, and straight alike.


Tax the Christian Taliban!

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by: Wolfgang @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 13:11:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If the police have the confession that they claim to have

and physical evidence (like possession of the stolen car) to back it up, then a plea bargain is quite likely.

A sentence based upon a conviction for crimes a jury could plausibly make, given the facts police say were confessed could range anywhere from about nine years of which seven years might actually served (sentence of eight years for the murder, one or two for the car theft, reduced by "good time") to life in prison without parole (for murder in connection with another felony), based upon my analysis of the criminal statutes involved.

Typically, prosecutors and the defendant with his lawyer would agree on a crime or crimes to which the defendant would plea guilty, with or without a non-binding sentencing recommendation from the prosecutor.  The victim's family and defendant would then have a change to address the judge.  The judge would then typically have the final say on the actual sentence.

The defendant wouldn't be likely to agree in a plea bargain to life in prison without parole, and the prosecutor is likely to want a plea bargain to avoid the risk of "jury nullification" (i.e. letting the defendant off even though the jury thinks that he is legally guilty because of their own biases) and to save the expense of prosecuting a murder case.  But the prosecutor is unlikely to agree to recommend minimum sentence, and the judge is unlikely to impose a minimum sentence, in a case getting national press, when there is a confession and physical evidence to support the fact that this guy committed the crime in a pretty brutal way and followed up on that by hiding and stealing the car.

The sort of plea bargain that seems plausible in a case like this would be, for example, (1) a plea to second degree murder not in the heat of passion, in exchange for dropping the car theft claim and the risk of life in prison without parole for felony-murder, with the prosecutor not to make a sentencing recommendation or recommending a sentence in the middle of the sentencing range for that offense, or (2) a plea to second degree murder in the heat of passion and car theft, with the prosecutor not to make a sentencing recommendation.  

Realistically a sentence in the vicinity of eighteen years to thirty-two years (which would work out to time actually served of about ten to twenty-four years), is in the ballpark of what would be most likely.

It is very unlikely that this guy will simply get off, although how long he spends in prison probably ultimately comes down to the judge who gets assigned to the case at random in Weld County.

The hate crimes law doesn't really have much impact on this case from a sentencing perspective.  A hate crime committed by an individual (as opposed to a group of people) causing bodily injury is punishable as a class 5 felony in Colorado, which is punishable by one to three years in prison (before good time) probably served concurrently (i.e. at the same time) as the prison time for murder; or two to six years if this offense receives a crime of violence enhancement.

The hate crimes law in Colorado essentially causes otherwise minor crimes like simple assaults or low dollar value vandalism to carry a more serious punishment when they are bias motivated.  But the law does essentially nothing to enhance a sentence for a crime that is already serious in the first place.

In a case like this one, the point of bringing a hate crimes charge would simply be to make a public statement about the case, rather than to change the outcome. Indeed, I could see the family asking the prosecutor to accept a plea deal that included a hate crimes charge, and excluded a theft charge, precisely to make a point about what the case was about.

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by: ohwilleke @ Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 22:13:45 PM CDT