Any open Prop 8 supporters in the line-up?

If not, what you want to bet Obama has his wife whisper her personal opposition to prop 8 a week later at a gathering of 25 glbt people where no press is present?  then it will get reported to the gay press,which will be all aflutter at Obama's "real" feelings on the matter.

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Lurleen on Twitter.

---

by: Lurleen @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 11:40:09 AM CDT

LOL

---

by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 14:11:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I've been saying for months

(and have been attacked on this blog for saying it) that Obama will not be supportive of gay equality in any serious way.  This is only the latest indication.  The LGBT community would be crazy to expect anything positive from this man.  He'll drop us a few crumbs, as the Democrats always do--crumbs that won't cost him any "political capital."  Crumbs calculated to keep us in line and voting for him.  And that will be all.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

---

by: QScribe @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 11:56:43 AM CDT

I agree -- and I've seen it the same way from the start...

He'll gladly toss us under the bus to keep the "church folk" happy.

---

by: the.sue @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:13:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I've expressed concerns about his pandering to the right as well

this is one of the many reasons I voted for Hillary in the primary

mind you, I'm not a gender voter or a moron so I'm not going to do anything that would yield a McCain-Palin assministration.  McShame was bad enough but with Palin on the ticket, he's beyond atrocious

---

by: ol cranky @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:15:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Just Because He's Not My Friend, Does That Make Him My Enemy?

I have a dozen issues I rank higher than exclusive LGBT issues of same-sex marriage.  I know, there are other, equally important issues in regards to LGBt issues, but right now, the spotlight is on same-sex marriage.  My other issues which I rate even higher than same-sex marriage are health care, foreign policy, the imperial presidency, and, most importantly, the Supreme Court.  Even if my choice for President is based on those lifestyle issues and my natural selection has not fervently embraced the LGBT talking points, I'll f*ckingly well vote for Obama over McCain any day of the week.

Sometimes in my cynicism, I don't think there's an iota of difference between McCain and Obama, the Democrats and the Republicans, but then I remember.  There is only one issue in front of us.  Who the fuck is going to appoint the next several Justices to the U.S. Supreme Court?

God save us from McCain and his Republican Party.

Houston Bridges

---

by: Houston @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 21:35:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The Supreme Court is the Prize

And the thought of giving the right to appoint justices to anyone but Obama gives me pains.

While I don't trust Obama vis-a-viz his pandering to the religious, I have some hope that whoever he appoints to the court will be living in this century and not trying to channel the 18th.

---

by: the.sue @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:13:14 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

not even at the back of the bus

but thrown under the goddamned bus- GEE,thanks!!!!

---

by: Miranda Writes @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 11:59:06 AM CDT

This is disappointing, but...

This is disappointing, but I think we should not make a big issue about this.  Obama needs to win, and he needs to reach out to as broad a coalition of voters as possible.  Prop 8 is just one issue out there on the vast political landscape, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to make opposition to Prop 8 a litmus test for who appears with him on tour.  I can't blama Obama for wanting to build a broad coalition of supporters, who may have divergent views on other issues.

Who knows?  Maybe mixing a Prop 8 supporter in with a bunch of others who oppose it (including Obama) will influence him to change his position.  Or maybe not - but demanding his removal certainly won't accomplish this, and it will just make us appear to be difficult to deal with.

---

by: ArizonaDave @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:06:11 PM CDT

I think he's relying on us making a big deal about it.

It helps his anti-equality stance look more genuine in the eyes of the haters if the gay constituency hates him or calls him hypocritical.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

---

by: Lurleen @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:37:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Good calculus

that explains a lot

---

by: Imagine @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 13:01:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

what makes you think the rest

of them, including The Man Himself, oppose it in front of their self-styled 'Christian' friends?

Prop 8 takes away equality from same sex couples and makes them second-class Californians paying more taxes so their straight neighbors can pay less.

Why would that NOT be a litmus test? The effort required for Obama to choose among the many thousands of Christian ministers against Prop 8, all as unknown and under-appreciated as Doug, would have been minimal and most importantly not cost him a vote.

He insults our intelligence by pretending otherwise.

But wait, there's more!

---

by: PhoenixRising @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:39:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well

Why would that NOT be a litmus test?

Obama opposes prop. 8.

Obama is asking right wing voters not to use his opposition to prop. 8 as a litmus test on whether they vote for him.

So how can he make that demand while simultaneously using prop. 8 as a litmus test for who he'll even let speak on his behalf...?

---

by: mcc @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:44:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Obama opposes prop 8...

...but in what context, exactly?  Sure, when talking to LGBT voters -- but what about when talking to the straight public?  His authoritarian Christian supporters?  

---

by: M @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 20:12:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The LCR's can have a good laugh at our expense

given our collective haranguing of them supporting anti- gay candidates.

Well, here is Donnie McClurkin's stage manager Senator Obama digging up yet another anti-gay person to lend him gravitas and that touch of mainstream homophobic bigotry.

Can you imagine the outcry if the Republicans took a segregationaslist on tour with McCain and Caribou Barbie?
But it is fine for the party that coursts us so very often and delivers so very little to cruise American with a homophobe.

You see, it is still socially appropriate, even amongst the Democraats, to hate us.

Senator Obama, thank you for legitimising discrimination against us and our second class status yet again.
You are beginning to remind me of another populist centrist democratic candidate, Governor George Wallace.

I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

---

by: MauraHennessey @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 13:40:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Again...

Can I know what Obama will actually do as Prez? No.

Right now, we have the following to weigh: Actual, proven, verified, live support of real (T-inclusive) gay rights bills in the Illinois Senate vs. what might be a bone thrown to the christianists in order to get past yet another criminalistically deceptive anti-constitutionst republican-oid and into the White House.

That bone is going to make you do what? Actually vote for Sen. Palindrone Bush McBailout, III?  

Give me a break.

>^..^<

---

by: KatRose @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:24:34 PM CDT

who said anyone was voting bush-mcfailin'?

at least for me, criticism of obama for being a f'n hypocrite doesn't mean i will vote for the bigger hater on the ticket instead.  but obama deserves getting raked over some coals here.  he's condoning discrimination by not taking the opportunity to speak against it.  and this will influence people's thinking in FL and AZ too, not just CA.

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Lurleen on Twitter.

---

by: Lurleen @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:43:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actual, proven verified, live

legitimisation of homophobic messages and the provision of a platform for them to be proclaimed from, as actual, proven, verified contempt for individual rights from the FISA vote and actual, proven, verified disregard for separation of church and state as well as the first amendment through his proclaimation to expand the frequently discriminatory Faith Based Initiative


I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

---

by: MauraHennessey @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 13:44:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I've sent an email...

...to Obama requesting that he not include Kmiec in this tour and if it goes on with Kmiec he will lose my vote in November (I know, big whoop...).  He was my fourth choice during the primaries and I've not been excited about him from the beginning.

I don't expect a reply.

---

by: TomTallis @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:29:07 PM CDT

Bash Me Again, Barack

What, he couldn't get Donnie McClurkin to do a reprise tour? I'm beginning to look at gay Obama supporters the way I look at Log Cabin Republicans. You know, Jewish Nazis. Or black members of the KKK.
However, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe deciding whether separate-but-equal is as good as real marriage rights is a question above his pay grade.

---

by: myroro @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:31:56 PM CDT

Check the platforms

It's not Obama himself I'm voting on.

It's the democratic platform which is the most inclusive in history, as opposed to the republican one (which is enforced regardless of candidate) which says I'm either a brainless child or a threat to society who should be kept down as much as possible, even to making new laws to do it.

Of course he hates gays. 85% of the population does. At least that's what they've said at all the ballot boxes, except Arizona. (And there it only failed because of the old people living together)

No one ever talks about [extermination]. They just do it. And you go on with your lives, ignoring the signs all around you. And then, one day, when the air is still and the night has fallen, they come for you.

---

by: valarltd @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 22:29:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why is the fact he's a prop.8 supporter the only interesting thing?

Kmiec isn't just a prop.8 supporter, also he's pro-life/anti-choice, he's a Romney supporter... he's a right wing Republican. That's the point! That's sort of why the Obama people have Kmiec campaigning for them in the first place-- because they're trying to show they have support even among right wing Republicans. If Kmiec weren't a right-wing republican with right-wing republican views there wouldn't be any point in using him for outreach to other right-wingers.

And personally I'd prefer what Obama is doing here-- capturing right-leaning votes by reaching out to them on issues where there is common ground, then using people like Kmiec to argue, look, we can disagree with Obama on things like abortion and gay marriage, but he's the better candidate overall-- over what Democrats have been doing the last 20 years, which is trying to capture right-leaning votes by actually adopting right-wing positions.

I dunno. It just continues to fascinate me how people seem to be more interested in who attends minor Obama campaign events than where Obama actually stands on the issues.

---

by: mcc @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:38:58 PM CDT

This is why...

...half of the Democratic base is going to vote for McCain.  Why vote for McCain lite, when you can vote for the real thing?

---

by: Storm @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 12:47:37 PM CDT

Good, Bad, or Whatever Else

I've just voted. I just dropped my absentee ballot in the mailbox down the street, and I'm now proudly wearing the little "I've Voted" sticker on my ballcap. For better or worse, Obama got my vote. The alternative is so much worse (Palin/McShame); there really was no other choice. I would not sit home and waste my vote. I would vote for the devil himself before I would vote for McCain. I also would not waste my vote on people that had absolutely no chance to win such as Bob Barr or Nader. And for those of you who wonder, I voted after I read this post.
I've already seen Obama reach out to try to include people that perhaps we might not want to associate with. I will just have to trust that this fits in with what he has said all along, that he wants to be as inclusive as he can without changing his own basic views. He has also stated his opposition to Prop. 8. I will just have to trust that he continues with this belief. What other choice do we have? Mrs. Mooseburger and Grandpa?
P.S. I voted against Lindsey Graham too, and for Bob Conley for U.S. Senate.

---

by: Fiona @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 13:03:56 PM CDT

I have posted on Obama's campaign site people of Faith forum

I strongly recommended an openly gay/lesbian minister be added to this tour. I have no problem Obama's staff reaching out to ANY voters, that's what a campaign does, at least a winning campaign. I think an openly LGBT minister would know inately how the message from this tour will play to our community, and it'd show RESPECT for our voices.
I have utmost trust that Michelle and Barack are friends to LGBTs, and that's enough to earn my vote, donations, and volunteer hours.
I hope Obama's staff has learned from the McClurken gaffe, because that made me mad as hell, at the time too.
Palin should scare the F*CK out of every queer, so unless you want to do a useless vote for Cynthia, we have a good alternative, who isn't perfect, but INFINITELY better than Palin bat sh*t crazy.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

---

by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 13:08:25 PM CDT

Kmiec's article

Society should be skeptical of wider use of asexual procreation. An earlier dark moment in U.S. history employed eugenics to forcibly sterilize the mentally disabled. The push for artificial wombs and the genetic manipulation of intelligence already peppers scientific literature - a push that would no doubt grow, accommodating even the minimal same-sex desire for simulating natural child birth - claimed to be of interest for 20-30 percent of same-sex couples. When carefully assessed, the acquisition of unnatural reproductive means often advances the interests of the very affluent through a libertarian exercise that would threaten all hope of democratic equality.

In a depopulating world, the claim that there is a universal right to marry regardless of gender becomes a frightening ally of a claimed universal right to access to genetically engineered children. People should reject this claim by returning traditional marriage to its rightful place.

If Kmiec is stumping for Obama, does that mean Obama shares those concerns about genetically engineered children for same-sex couples?

---

by: Imagine @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 13:10:49 PM CDT

The guys needs to read his science book

Asexual reproduction mean there's no exchange of genetic material between gamates....These Antis really have a problem with the fact that being gay or lesbian doesn't make one infertile...genetic material exchanged the old fashioned way...just the delivery system is adjusted.

So according to this guy, a lesbian using a sperm bank is genetic enginneering.  

---

by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 14:20:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, he's not talking about that

He's really talking about asexual procreation.  Using a sperm bank is sexual, though he might be thinking of it also.  But clearly he's talking about new stuff coming down the road:  artificial wombs, the desire for same-sex couples to have related children together, etc.

---

by: Imagine @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 14:59:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's still the wrong biological scientific term

Down the road...two lesbians conceiving a child together with their own gamates is still "sexual"....where talking chromosomes here, not anatomical body parts.

Kmiec should still get his terms straight, (pun may or maynot be intended) or else he's doing nothing but being intentionally misleading with the intend of misinforming.

---

by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 15:40:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's debatable

yes, it would still be using gametes, but since they'd not be of two sexes, it wouldn't be "sexual".  But either way, it doesn't matter what it is called, as long as people are talking about two lesbians conceiving together.

---

by: Imagine @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 19:22:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Gay marriage equals cylons populating the earth is the new Obama message?

Because if Obama makes this man one of his spokespeople, that is what he is endorsing.

Please, please please spare me from the Illinois junior Senator and his egalitarian platitudes

It all still reeks of Orwell's "Animal Farm":
"Some minorities are more equal than others"
"Man/woman good, same sex bad"


I tell you Chica that no greater abomination exists than women denying their spirit of sisterhood and instead becoming the oppressor. -Rebeca, Universidad Complutense de Madrid

---

by: MauraHennessey @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 15:07:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"A depopulating world"

Is this guy crazy?  World population keeps increasing.  He should actually turn his argument around and say that because there are already quite enough people in the world and the projection is for ever-increasing numbers, that sci fi reproduction should be limited or prevented.  I can only conclude that his ignorance of the facts is deliberate because he want's to hide his homophobia.  Got news for the guy - it aint working!

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

---

by: Lurleen @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 15:42:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Didn't you know?

Didn't you know? People who complain about population growth plummeting aren't talking about the world's population, they're talking about certain populations (probably white Catholic in this case) within the world.

---

by: reblaw @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 20:15:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

STORM be a TROLL

Out of which orafice did you pull half the Democratic voters oppose Obama? I hope ya wiped the SANTORUM off your bogus speel before ya dropped it here.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

---

by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 13:11:00 PM CDT

How different, REALLY, are we from LCR??

I ask that in all honesty.  We regularly attack the Log Cabin Republicans for voting republican, but how is this kind of thing any different?  And how is it any diferent than the disdain we have for the less educated voter that votes against their self interest and argues that they are not while doing so?

Last week I sent in my first donation to the Obama Campaign, but I just called (To reach the Campaign Headquarters by phone, please call: (866) 675-2008) and asked to be removed from their campaign due to this issue.  I can't be giving money to the Equality California campaign and then give money to Obama when he will be using that money to campaign with someone who will use this exposure to fundraise for the Supporters of Prop 8.  It's not at all crazy to think that Kmiec will use this national exposure to ratchet up fundraising for the 8 camp as soon as he is done with the Obama "reach-out".  I cannot afford to help support both side of 8 by association.

I live in California and my marriage's validity will be questioned in just a few weeks, and for those of you out there who ever hope to have it in your own state should understand that if we loose here, we will loose almost, if not everywhere.  And just a reminder that this comes on the heels of the news that he would not seek to immediately overturn DADT (how much longer will that law remain on the books?  4, or 5 years or will it be dropped for expediency like the Clinton's allowed?).

I called the campaign and told them this in no uncertain (yet totally respectfully to the nice woman on the phone) terms.  There are plenty of people out there whom Obama could have used, but one of the leaders in this fight?  Not wise and totally reminisent of the Clintons in their early days.  And just so you know, when I mentioned it to the woman she said "well, ya know, Obama supports gay marriage" and I had to read her what his actual statements are, and regreted to inform her that since the Clinton's, I was no longer a wink and a nod type of guy.  

I say: Either support us, or don't, but don't talk out of both sides of your mouth.  That's the "old" Washington...

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY

---

by: R.K. Wright @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 13:36:19 PM CDT

Does Support Shunning?

I am of two minds about this. I get what Obama is trying to do - build a coalition of voters who are broader than the simplistic divisions exploited by the right to hold power for the last few years. Obama has often talked about deliberately engaging with those who oppose him on various issues, as a way of both understanding and potentially reaching them (there is an interesting part of Audacity of Hope where he talks about dealing with pro-life protesters during his Senate election). It does not mean he's changed his own mind on the fundamental issue.

My question for the campaign is, are you using this guy because of or in spite of his support for anti-gay measures. If the option is "in spite of," in other words as a way to demonstrate that people who have very different views than Obama can still support him, (and that is what I think is going on) as much as I dislike these anti-gay hatemongers, I have to be okay with it. I may not think it is the right thing to do, but I understand where he is coming from.

Obama has noted that we get nowhere if we simply refuse to speak to each other and stare across the barricades at one another. It is certainly possible that Kmiec may be the one changed by his involvement. We know there are many progressives around the campaign - it will certainly be harder for Kmiec to argue his views in front of Obama supporters without getting flack.

At the same time, I don't want to be an apologist for Obama or the Dems. I am a Dem and an Obama supporter not merely because I am gay, but because on nearly every issue I am on the same side as Obama. But I understand the hurt many people are feeling at this news. The good news, as I see it, is that I don't see any change in Obama's publicly stated views in his most recent LGBT press interview.  

---

by: CPT_Doom @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 14:00:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Support =Shunning

is what I meant.  

---

by: CPT_Doom @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 14:01:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Burnsey your marriage can NOT be undone retroactively

NO LAW functions that way,  it'd be UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

So it seems you want some emotional response to make your case sound stronger.i don't want prop 8 anymore than any queer, but I would argue it as preventing future CA queers being denied what you have.
Same sex marriage is LEGAL in MA and won't ever be recinded, all 3 branches of government have agreed.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

---

by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 21:31:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

OT That's legal advice

and worth what was spent on it.

If you're wondering what the fate of your CA marriage license will be should Prop 8 pass, ask someone qualified for an opinion.  

But wait, there's more!

---

by: PhoenixRising @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 22:52:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

if ya need a lawyer to tell you a law can't alter a legally binding contract after the fact

fine, spend your money, but be sure to come back poorer and wiser, and validate I was right.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

---

by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 23:25:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

here's a hint

ever heard of "grandfathering in?"

"Black's Law Dictionary defines "grandfather clause" as "an exception to a restriction that allows all those already doing something to continue doing it even if they would be stopped by the new restriction." Thus, "grandfathering" is allowing an existing operation or conduct to continue legally when a new operation or conduct would be illegal. "

http://bayworld.net/unn/blacks...

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

---

by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 23:32:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Legal experts weighed in already.

Legal experts already agreed unanimously (to my knowledge) that no marriages would be annulled.  It was in the papers a soon after the court ruling was announced.  PPP is correct.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

---

by: Lurleen @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 00:17:47 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Won't keep ADF from filing a lawsuit if Prop 8 should heaven forbid...pass/

---

by: Karen in Kalifornia @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 11:35:49 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

from Gone with The Wind

"wantin ain't gettin'"

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

---

by: peteyPornpig @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 13:17:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

LGBT 100% purists = LOSERS

If you want to vote for a candidate with our community 100% and lose, or vote for someone with us 95% and win

THAT IS A NO BRAINER.

When the alternative will land us with PALIN who wants to BAN gay books, and attends a church with Jews for Jesus and pray-away-the-gay, and will GUT Roe vs. Wade and made women pay for their own rape evidence kits.

I have to look at you and ask, "WTF?"

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

---

by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 13:53:45 PM CDT

I'm no purist, if you meant me.

I simply asked the questions I did because some questions just need to be explored.  How different is it really from LCR's?  And I stated that I couldn't support both the campaign (because this WILL give Kmeic a platform outside these events to raise more yes on 8 funds) and the No on 8 campaign with my money or time.  I wholly think that directing my efforts and small funds to the fight that will affect my life more directly, since I do live in California, is the right choice.  My efforts in this state for Obama will make no difference, he's already got California, so my dollars go to my more direct threat.

And I believe in calling everyone out over the issues as I see them.  That means that I will actually yell louder at those whom I support in general, than I will those whom I support not at all.  I hold my candidate to standards I hold myself to, and would expect everyone to do the same.  Too many people think that criticism means you don't support someone.  I tend to disagree with that sentiment, as it is too similar to the republican's claim that if you question the acts of America, then you are not Patriotic.  It simply isn't true.  I would expect everyone to question their leaders, regardless of their party.  Otherwise it's all the same.  Just a different brand.  Old Boss, new Boss.  New Boss, Old Boss.

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY

---

by: R.K. Wright @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 14:26:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

95%?

Excuse me for not getting excited over "OK, so I'll keep some rights straight-people-only, and I'll expand distribution of tax money to ragingly homophobic religious groups...but I promise to not kick you to the curb quite as badly as McCain."

I'm supposed to give up on voting for a candidate who actually shares a good number of positions and contribute a tiny bit to Obama's nearing-20-point lead in my state for this?

---

by: M @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 20:23:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

do it or don't do it

You have the power over your vote, and I've ceased CARING about what a few whiney individuals do or don't do.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

---

by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 21:01:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Give Obama a break

He stood up on national television during the final night of the Democratic Convention to say gay couples deserve equal protections.  We'll never get past partisan swamplands if we don't encourage dialogue WITHIN OUR RANKS with people just like Kmiec.  His coming out in support for Obama was actually pretty brave.  I'm glad they are going after more progressive evangelical Christians.  There may not be many, but in this election every vote counts.  

---

by: Troy @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 13:55:23 PM CDT

Equal protections with un-equal institutions...

Obama wants second-class, back-of-the-bus, equality for gays. Jim Crow equality! Hets get marriage, and we get something else. Using his logic, blacks had full equality back when they had separate drinking fountians and could ride the bus if they were willing to sit in the back.

Sorry, but I don't want and won't accept that.

---

by: Storm @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:21:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's just Prop 8, which will fail on Nov 4 anyway.

Kmiec is just a PR sop. He'll muddy the waters a little, if he says anything really outrageous, he'll get booed and learn better. But while he's on tour, he'll stir up the cultural conservatives by saying, "Hey, look, we can disagree on GLBT rights, abortion and all the other crap the R's have used to "win", (stuff I've made a good living off of) but this time I'm voting for Obama.

I understand wanting to protest, write the campaign, hold my breath till I turn blue, but I'm not making the perfect the enemy of the good. Really, I believe my time is better spent on swing state voter ID. Anyone want to carpool to Reno next weekend?

Remember what FDR said, "I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it." Have you written/called a congress-critter today? 8.25, 6.21

---

by: Jacques @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 14:18:11 PM CDT

Same-Sex Marriage Ban Is Tied to Obama Factor

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09...

I don't know if you've seen this article, but it makes a lot of sense.  If this is the opinion they have of conservative blacks (and I am assumming that it is because of the religous aspect) then what do you think it says for the outreach to these groups in the midst of this battle?  That winning their vote is more important than keeping mine (Oh, yea, who else am I going to vote for?-still the dem, but with much less enthusiasm)  So to assume that 8 will fail is pretty bold.  I don't know of many others who hold such high confidence, regardless of the recent polls.  I live in the Bay Area and we are worried up here.

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY

---

by: R.K. Wright @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 14:36:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Maybe my glasses are a little rosey here in the CA-12

but statewide, we're doing okay 43 days out.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sci...

Add to that, general Dem. GOTV is strong, and focused on traditionally "red" districts, this year.

Remember what FDR said, "I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it." Have you written/called a congress-critter today? 8.25, 6.21

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by: Jacques @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 17:16:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm still stuck on the "a millennia" part

Isn't millennia plural?  I expect better grammar (especially Latin grammar!) from a Catholic law prof.

More substantively, I don't see how this is worse than what we already knew: Obama opposes same-sex marriage.  His opposition, like John Kerry's in 2004, is clearly a political one, not a sincere one.  How do we know?  Because he's a really smart constitutional lawyer.  He knows that it is logically inconsistent to "support gay rights" and oppose civil marriage rights; he certainly knows that civil marriage rights are just that -- civil rights.  

So he's made the political calculus that he can publicly oppose gay marriage -- in order to deprive the Republicans of a previously successful wedge issue -- without losing any of his gay support.  Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, you know where I actually stand, don't you?  He may even gain some support from conservatives.

Does the disingenuousness make me distrust Obama?  Yes.  Am I going to vote for him all the same?  You betcha.  It's because I'm being realistic.  The best we can hope for in this election and over the next four years is not for some grand reversal in the scheme of things, but for a significant brake on the acceleration of the downward spiral.  A bleak appraisal, perhaps.  Certainly lowered expectations.  But "hope" for me in 2008 amounts to just a little less bad stuff happening.  And I'm pretty certain that's what we'll get with Obama.  

It's all about perspective.  

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by: Diane95 @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 15:52:57 PM CDT

millennia is correct.

I think it is the only thing other than his name that he did get right.  Millennia is plural for millennium which is 1000 years so millennia is two thousand years.  But I suppose he should have gone further back than Jesus' time, if talking about the "traditional" sense of the word.

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY

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by: R.K. Wright @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:36:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Right, but you can't say ...

a millennia.  

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by: Diane95 @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:38:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

a is correct in refrencing a period of time, depending on the word.

sort of like the i after e thing.

Used before terms, such as few or many, that denote number, amount, quantity, or degree: only a few of the voters; a bit more rest; a little excited.

the word millennia would fall into that category.  At least as I recall from my studies.

But the guy is still a wacko in my view.

The trollish sounding blogger formerly known as BURNSEY

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by: R.K. Wright @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:48:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I can't believe I'm taking this further

But I can't resist the grammar compulsion!!!

Few is a collective noun, as in, "Would you like some No on 8 buttons?" "Sure, give me a few."  Millennia is a plain old garden variety plural that just happens to be formed differently from the usual add-an-ess kind.  You can't say "a millennia" any more than you can say "a decades" or "a years."  Kmiec should have said, "we've been oppressing gays for millennia," sans "a".  

Okay, I'll stop now.  Really.  Because this was silly of me in the first place.  Sorry.

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by: Diane95 @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 17:19:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A note on Kerry

Actually, I'm not sure it's accurate to say that Kerry's opposition to SSM was only political, since he still opposes it.  Kennedy supports SSM, SSM is secure in the state of MA, and Kerry's recent orimary challenger was pro-SSM.  Yet Kerry won't budge.  I think he's got a personal bigotry problem.  He's still great on all other LGBT issues, but the guy's got a problem.  Maybe Obama does too.  

If you're right that it's just a political thing with Obama, is that any better than a genuine bigotry?  Not if he keeps considering our civil rights expendable it isn't.  Obama will have a chance to prove himself in 2009.  If he fails, I won't give him a 2nd chance.  I'm no log cabin dem.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:40:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You queers still UNDECIDED about Obama

answer these questions:

Which party stocked the Supreme Court who will deny our equality, and may even overturn Roe and Lawrence?

Which party amped up the HATRED against queers in 13 Battle Ground States in 2004 to condemn us to 4 more years of f*cktard Bush?

Which party funds Prop8 and puts ballot measures banning our adoptions?

Which party has a VP who believed in pray-away-the-gay and Abstinence ONLY?

Which party has sent our economy to near 1930 crash, and now wants ALL of us to pony up a trillion?

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU FOLKS NEED, a g*d damn house to fall on ya to wise up?

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:51:14 PM CDT

Look at it this way...

I live in a state where Obama will not be losing.  Why vote for someone who only supports us when he thinks nobody else is listening?

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by: M @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 20:31:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

who's forcing you to vote?

But I noticed you SAID NOT ONE WORD about all the sh*t I listed from repigs....why is that?

denial?

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 21:10:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Denial?

Look, if the were close in California, yeah, I'd be voting Obama.  I don't want to see McSame and Failin' in office.  Since the race is not close in this state, though, I'm perfectly happy to vote for a Green instead of the lesser of the two major-party evils.

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by: M @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 21:40:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

YEAH denial

You CHOSE to reply to my post and you could have made your own stand alone post...why do that, unless you agree with or dispute some point of MY post?

seems kinda passive aggresive...IMO

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 22:14:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You were

getting pissy towards those of us who still aren't enthusiastic about the warm-and-fuzzy version of second-class citizenship.  You came close to accusing those of us who see Obama as just another corporate shill of ignoring the somewhat greater threat represented by McCain.

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by: M @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 00:34:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

this is at least honest and upfront that you have an issue with me personally

That's not what your posts reflect, you put on Obama, sh*t you have with me.
I'm a big boy and can take care of myself in a fight, if that's where you want to take this.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 02:58:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Look at it My Way

I voted for Obama in a state that he will lose. He is not going to win SC. I knew that before I voted. Does that make my vote any less important? Should I have just said forget about it? I had to go to a lot of extra trouble to get the absentee ballot, fill it out correctly, get my signature witnessed and get it mailed off. Was what I did for nothing? I don't think so.

How many people in the world would love to have the right to vote and have their say in their government? Americans are a privledged group. We have rights other people would die to have, including changing our leaders if we don't like them by voting them out of office. It's not easy, sometimes, I know, but we can do it if we are persistant and determined. I have never understood Americans (and Canadians up here too) who don't bother to vote because they think it won't matter anyway. It does matter.

Well, I voted. I'm glad I voted even if the person I voted for loses in my state and doesn't get the electoral votes from SC. I made my voice heard. I now have the right to complain if the winner messes up in office. My vote counts and I'm proud I made my voice heard.

I also voted for the person I thought would do the best job if he is elected. I don't believe in making protest votes in an election that is so important. We don't need a protest president. We need someone who has the skills to lead and govern this very complex and diverse nation. Now is not the time to shoot ourselves in the foot and wind up with Grandpa and his trophy VP.

Why should you vote? Because it is your right and your duty as an American citizen to do so. It is your duty to make your voice heard. If you think that someone other than Obama is the best choice for the US president, then, by all means, vote for that person. But make sure you are voting for the person who YOU think will do the best job for this nation.  Protest votes are stupid if you end up making things worse for everyone with your vote. Vote for the person you think is the best person for the job. Then be proud of yourself for doing so.
(getting off my soapbox now)

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by: Fiona @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 21:34:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh, I intend to vote --

I'll just be taking advantage of my living in a non-swing state and voting for a candidate whose positions I mostly support without worrying that I'm helping McCain/Palin.

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by: M @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 21:42:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Don't take CA for granted.

Since racism is going to be a factor in this election, no one can assume that Obama will win.  Every vote will be important.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

Lurleen on Twitter.

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by: Lurleen @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 00:15:30 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

a defiant vote soothes the soul

My maternal grandmother a devout Mormon, who lived in Utah all her life, (she idolized FDR and would have been happy if he'd gotten 3 more terms) voted Democrat EVERY election, knowing Utah would go Republican by a vast majority.
One of the things that I loved about her, and she raised sons and daughters and grandkids, who were never bigoted on race or sexual orientation, she was also feminist.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 13:29:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

btw that grandmother and her mother

worked for Sufferage, as did my paternal grandmother and her sisters...Those women gave you the vote you squander.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 13:32:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

meh

Obama opposes Prop 8.  That's what counts.  Reason and logic must be defied to cater to religious folk, so it's inevitable that some of the surrogates for the tour have unsavory views.

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by: oregonstudent @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:54:03 PM CDT

Which party is trying to deny the right to vote to those folks foreclosed on?

This is one of the most dispicable RNC dirty trick, and f*ckin with a rageful country THIS year will have cities EXLODE with fury, trying this reprehensble old garbage is DANGEROUS.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:59:28 PM CDT

despicable typo

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 17:57:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Dobson, Barbara LaHaye, Buchanan, Tony Perkins, CWA, Ann Coulter, Pat Robertson

belong to which party?

nuff said

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 17:56:08 PM CDT

OBAMA UP FIVE PTS. VA

"Women, Suburban DC Voters Help Obama Find Breathing Room on Virginia Battlefield: In an election for President of the United States in Virginia today, 09/22/08, 6 weeks from Election Day, Democrat Barack Obama edges Republican John McCain, 51% to 45%, according to this latest SurveyUSA poll conducted for WDBJ-TV in Roanoke, WJLA-TV in Washington DC, WTVR-TV in Richmond, and WJHL-TV in the Tri-Cities. Compared to an identical SurveyUSA poll released one week ago, Obama is up 1 point; McCain is down 1 point; compared to a SurveyUSA poll two weeks ago, Obama is up 4, McCain is down 4. "
  http://www.surveyusa.com/clien...
HAPPY DANCE!

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 18:17:05 PM CDT

MORE GOOD NEWS!

September 22, 2008
Diageo/Hotline Tracking Poll: Interest Rates High
In the latest release of the Diageo/Hotline tracking poll, Obama/Biden lead McCain/Palin 47-42% -- the largest lead for either ticket in the survey thus far. In the previous three releases, Obama/Biden led 45-44%.

The Dem ticket now leads Inds by 10%, a group they had trailed by 1% and 2%, respectively, in the surveys released 9/20 and 9/19. Obama/Biden also lead Dems 86-6% and trail GOPers 87-6%.

Among women, Obama/Biden hold a 13% margin -- equalling their largest lead among women in the tracking poll. While among men, McCain/Palin lead by 2%, down from their advantages of 5% on 9/20 and 8% on 9/19.

For the second consecutive day, 55% of respondents believe the economy is the most important using facing the U.S. -- another all-time high. McCain meanwhile has narrowed Obama's lead on who would best handle the economy to just 1%. Obama led on the economy by 3% on 9/20, 5% on 9/19 and 11% as recently as 9/15.

Today's survey, conducted 9/19-21 by FD, surveyed 915 RVs and has a margin of error of +/- 3.2%. Party ID breakdown for the sample is 41%D, 36%R, 19%I.
  http://hotlineblog.nationaljou...

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 18:20:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Prescription for DISASTER...new Obama ad

hit's McCain deregulating Healthcare like Banking
from Huffpo

  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

Hang It up McLOSER

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 18:32:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I am jazzed up about Voting for Barack Obama.

  Even though this pandering to these religous right quacks does piss me off, but I am still jazzed.  

 I think he is wasting his time thinking he is going to get many of their votes but that is his choice.  But it does quiet the claims he wont reach out to them.

 In the end it will be seen just how many of the religious voters sote for Obama and how many LGBT people vote for him.  

 I agree the SCOTUS is a big why I am voting for him and other Democratic Candidates.  If they stab us if they win this time around, I don't think they will be given that chance again.

 But also if you recall, TEH GAY boogie man was pulled out by the right earlier in 2000 and 2004 and it will not work this time.  I see it as a plus that the right seems scared to use LGBT people as a wedge issue.  

 If the Hate amendment fails to pass in CA, it spells close to game over for the Haters, if it Fails in FL and CA they're toast.  

 My gut tells me both Fl and CA will fail. They will be close but I believe they will not pass.

 I back that up with the part that race is playing in this election.  The Democratic Candidate should be a wlk in the park into the White House and the only reason it is close is because of Racism and Bigotry, and they are firm in the McSame camp.

 

If I make sense? it was quite by accident.

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by: HappyCat @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 01:05:59 AM CDT